Need help ... Athlon 64 or P4?

[karinatwork]

I know this is a question that has been asked before, but I'm pretty handicapped when it comes to these issues, so maybe we can get really specific..

I need a system mostly for editing of digital pictures and video editing. No gaming involved. It's supposed to be a workhorse, but not too slow, especially when it comes to the video editing. I need something that is reliable for a long time to come. There are currently two choices:

Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition with SP2
Processor AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3400+ operating at 2.4GHz
Memory 1 GB DDR / PC3200 (2 DIMM)
Hard Drive 200GB 7200 rpm SATA Hard Drive
LightScribe DL 16X DVD +/-R/RW drive
CD/DVD Drive 16X max. DVD-ROM
Graphics Card 128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForceFX(TM) 5200XT, TV-Out

OR:

Intel ® Pentium ® 4 processor 540J with Hyper-Threading Technology at 3.20GHz
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM memory
200GB 7200RPM Serial ATA hard drive
CD-ROM drive 48x max. speed
LightScribe Double Layer 16X DVD±R/RW drive with CD writer capabilities: 16x DVD+R, 8x DVD-R, 4x DVD±RW, 2.4x DVD+R DL, 16x DVD-ROM, 40x CDR, 24x CDRW, 40x CD-ROM
Intel ® Graphics Media Accelerator 900 with up to 128MB shared video memory

Actually, to be precise, the Athlon 64 is not available in Canada yet with the Lightscribe. The P4 though is available RIGHT now in this version for a fairly reasonable price.

My question is, is it going to be worth waiting for an Athlon 64 that might never be available in this form in Canada, or should I just jump on the bandwagon and go with the P4 that is on the shelf right now?

Thanks a bunch for your opinion... Your help and input is VERY much appreciated... :mrgreen:

K.

[Kati Compton]

You can have many different arguments for which is better.

AMDs tend to run cooler, so are easier to KEEP cool, and therefore easier to keep quiet.

AMDs USED to be cheaper, but this is changing a bit I think (but I'm not sure)

The 64-bit AMDs are supposedly good for gaming, but most other software isn't written to take advantage of it. Meanwhile, as long as your OS supports it (I thought there were some Linux issues?) hyper-threading is nice on Intel.

Actually, I'd personally focus on the OTHER stuff, though you can check speed ratings for those particular processors at a couple of different sites.

I'd recommend 1 gig of memory over 512 if you're running high-intensity apps or many apps. 512 is certainly sufficient for browsing + word processing, though.

Any particular reason why you want two optical drives?

The graphics on the Intel machine sound on-board to me. This is fine for non-gaming. If you're doing 3D gaming, though, you would probably prefer the separate card. The on-board graphics are "shared memory", and since that box is the one with less RAM, this is "less good".

But really, it depends on what you need, what you want to spend, and how much these cost.

[Kati Compton]

PS - I personally prefer XP Pro, as XP Home is XP Pro with some stuff taken out. For example, I think complex networking stuff can be slightly better with Pro, and I know that Pro has better compatibility with old games for some reason I can't fathom. Depends on what you want, though. But it could be worth seeing if you can find a list of the differences on Microsoft's site. I personally avoid the "If you want to do this, buy this" sales pitch, and try to figure out what the ACTUAL differences are so I can make my own evaluation.

[Janak Parekh]

Meanwhile, as long as your OS supports it (I thought there were some Linux issues?) hyper-threading is nice on Intel.
I like Intel's Hyperthreading features a lot. It makes the machine run smoother when you're ripping CDs, for example. And it runs fine on Linux. ;)

Any particular reason why you want two optical drives?
Easier to copy CDs?

But overall, I agree with Kati. ;)

--janak

[karinatwork]

Thank you so much for your replies. I still don't know what to do. The thing that worries me is that I might not be able to get my hands on an Athlon 64 with the Lightscribe (which is - I think - a really cool gadget). I called HP Canada and asked when they would think an Athlon 64 model would hit store shelves in Canada equipped with the Lightscribe (like it is already out in the States), and his answer was that he didn't know and if he did know he wouldn't be allowed to tell me. :?

Anyway, from wherever I turn it just seems that everyone is recommending the Athlon 64 to me, but I really don't understand why, and if it's worth to just sit and wait for some phanton computer to arise on the horizon, or if maybe the P4 - considered I am NOT a gamer - would be the better choices of the two for me ANYWAY!

Gosh. This is all so confusing. Thanks again.

K.

[Kati Compton]

Janak - I had a friend at a different university that was running a version of Linux that ran SLOWER when HT was enabled. He had to turn it off. I'm sure they've fixed that by now, but it was just a comment.

Anyway, from wherever I turn it just seems that everyone is recommending the Athlon 64 to me, but I really don't understand why, and if it's worth to just sit and wait for some phanton computer to arise on the horizon, or if maybe the P4 - considered I am NOT a gamer - would be the better choices of the two for me ANYWAY!

Gosh. This is all so confusing. Thanks again.

I wouldn't think the "64" in the Athlon 64 would get you anything. For Intel, the HT is nice... and video editing can be intense, especially if you're adding effects. Both processor speeds are more than enough. If you're going to get the HT, I'd get 1 gig RAM. The 2nd optical drive (DVD-ROM/CDRW) can be dropped unless you plan to copy disk-to-disk a lot. If not, you can always make an image of a disk on the hard drive before writing, so you only *need* one drive.

If you never game, never do anything super-intense graphics-wise, onboard graphics should be sufficient. You can always add a graphics card later. But I'd again choose 1 gig RAM if you're doing that. Turns out memory is just as important for computer speed as the processor, and there's a LOT of stuff running in the background these days. And editing video could require a lot of memory. I'm assuming that a video card wouldn't help for video editing here...

Assuming you go 1 gig, 2 DIMM is fine. It's cheaper than 1 DIMM, and 1 gig should be plenty for a while. By the time you need more, memory will be cheaper.

Going back to Athlon vs. P4. Many advocate AMD because they're the "underdog" compared to Intel. But for non-gamers, there's only two real reasons to care one way or the other as far as I can tell: the heat issue that I mentioned earlier (note for AMD the "effective speed" is something kinda like 3.4 GHz, while the actual clock speed is only 2.4GHz... This means it runs cooler than a chip *actually* at 3.4 GHz). Cooler machine requires fewer fans, which makes it quieter, which might be useful when editing. I'd also consider price.

If you've got something you want to do NOW, I wouldn't say that the Athlon 64 is something worth waiting for. Though I would up the memory on the Intel machine.

[karinatwork]

Kathy, you're an angel. I finally have an idea of what is going on. Everything makes much more sense to me now. I'm impressed with your knowledge.

Thank you very much again. I'm pretty much in computer heaven right now... :D

K.

[Janak Parekh]

Janak - I had a friend at a different university that was running a version of Linux that ran SLOWER when HT was enabled. He had to turn it off. I'm sure they've fixed that by now, but it was just a comment.
You're 100% right, and I just learned something new today. :) And yes, it has been fixed, fortunately.

Cooler machine requires fewer fans, which makes it quieter, which might be useful when editing. I'd also consider price.
Not always. Dells in particular have very efficient cooling, even with HT-enabled P4s. My Dell at work is almost always completely silent.

My take on Athlon vs. P4 would be, honestly, "whichever you can get a better deal on". I slightly bias towards P4 for the hyperthreading, but it's not utterly critical and I think you'd be happy with either. And yes, I think 1GB is a good idea for large file handling, which you'd encounter via video editing.

BTW, Karin, you might want to make some inquiries on DMT as well. They're passionate about some of this stuff. :P

--janak

[karinatwork]

Thanks a bunch Janak. Hmmm... Dell.... my friend's Dell gave her NOTHING but trouble, and the customer service was awful. I on the other hand had always good experiences with HP and Compaq... strangely enough. So I am kinda scared to leave my trusted HP path and venture in the deep dark Dell woods. :)

[Janak Parekh]

Thanks a bunch Janak. Hmmm... Dell.... my friend's Dell gave her NOTHING but trouble, and the customer service was awful. I on the other hand had always good experiences with HP and Compaq... strangely enough. So I am kinda scared to leave my trusted HP path and venture in the deep dark Dell woods. :)
That's fine. I'm not saying Dell's necessarily your best choice -- just that their machines tend to run quiet. Get whatever you're happy with. We bought Dells at work because they're a "preferred vendor" which makes purchasing them easier, and overall we've been happy with them, but I've heard their service has gotten worse since. Then of course, I've heard all of these companies' service has gotten worse. :(

--janak

[karinatwork]

Yeah. There is always the option to go with the extended purchase warranty of the store where I'll buy the computer from. I've always thought that these are just a waste of money, but with the decreased customer service of manufactureres, it sounds tempting to be able to just bring the computer back to the store and get them to deal with the problem...

We'll see. :roll:

[Kati Compton]

Not always. Dells in particular have very efficient cooling, even with HT-enabled P4s. My Dell at work is almost always completely silent.

Good point, but they're really an exception, aren't they?


Karinatwork - Don't call me Kathy. :P

The other thing to keep in mind service-wise is that if you buy a business line (Optiplex) instead of a home-consumer-line (Dimension), you may have better service. I know this was the case with the Compaq laptop my husband bought (Evo). I've heard similar reports for various companies, though admittedly mostly for laptop purchases.

[maximus]

And some other thoughts on P4 vs athlon64 here :

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36345

As the owner of both a PC with Pentium 4 3.0ghz Northwood and another PC with Athlon64 3400+ Clawhammer, I noticed that the older Pentium 4 3.0 outperformed athlon64 3400+ in multimedia application. And I processed videos a lot.

I need something that is reliable for a long time to come. There are currently two choices:

Processor AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3400+ operating at 2.4GHz
Or.
Intel ® Pentium ® 4 processor 540J with Hyper-Threading Technology at


For video processing, P4 540J is definitely much faster than the Athlon64 3400+.

And this is just a personal observation of mine. I have experienced a lot of PCs in my life and Pentium PCs generally last longer and more stable than Athlons.

[karinatwork]

Ahhhh Kati - please forgive me. I'm never EVER going to get your name wrong again. I hate it when people give me an E instead of an I, (Karin/Karen), so I should know better.

My apologies! :)

Maximus: Thank you for your input. It gets clearer by the minute. I guess I'm off buying the P4. ;)

THANKS AGAIN! I knew I could count on you guys... :werenotworthy:

K.

[Kati Compton]

Ahhhh Kati - please forgive me. I'm never EVER going to get your name wrong again. I hate it when people give me an E instead of an I, (Karin/Karen), so I should know better.
If you want to get Janak really worked up, you can spell his name Janek. :twisted:

It doesn't *really* bother me (now that I'm no longer 12 years old)... it's just a common mistake. ;)

If it makes you feel better, for the longest time I misread your handle as "Karina at work".

[maximus]

Graphics Card 128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForceFX(TM) 5200XT, TV-Out
OR:
Intel ® Graphics Media Accelerator 900 with up to 128MB shared video memory


You mentioned that the PC is going to be mainly as workhorse, no gaming at all. But I still think that you should get a PC with decent graphic card (ATI radeon 9600 or NVIDIA geforce FX5700) especially when you do videos a lot. I have noticed several posts on various multimedia boards that the next generation of video rendering/processing softwares will be able to take advantage of the raw processing power of the graphic card via the PCI express architecture.

We all know that the latest graphic processor from ATI and NVIDIA contains more transistors than the latest Pentium 4 and Athlon64. Imagine being able to share the processing of your video between the processor and the graphic processor. That will be awesome.