HP Planning Updated iPAQs?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2368' target='_blank'>http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2368</a><br /><br /></div><i>"HP's booths were active at the CES this year. Not just active with tons of products, but with buzz about their iPAQ line that has been disappointing as of late. Some of the more loose lipped reps talked about a redesign coming for the h6300 Windows Mobile phone and the entry level rz1715."</i><br /><br />There's not a whole lot of detail in the article, but the idea makes sense. I don't quite understand HP's lineup at all right now -- the 17xx units are budget-featured but not budget-priced, the new 2xxx and 3xxx units are powerful but lacking VGA and it's tough to determine the better unit, the 4700 is powerful but large and has less memory, and the 6315 doesn't even have WM2003SE. Let's see if HP can get their act together a little bit.

[fostermom2]

for the price that they charge they should get there act togather then that way people do have to go to other place top get what they what

[gq12o]

yea

they still have their ipaq 4150/4350 on their site.

the only reason they still have it is because its still their best overall PDA, even though it was released OVER a year ago....
After all these new models/series, id say theyve taken a step back

they need to start improving or start lowering prices. or how about an wm2003se update for the 4150/4350?

(can you tell i have an 4150?)

[marcm]

Yeah, hopefully they get their act together. I like the VGA display on the 4700, but the touchpad instead of a D-pad turns me off. Also, the brick design makes their current line look bad. Hopefully this is fixed soon! :duh:

[David C]

The poor sales is totally predicted. Don't the people designing PDA read sites like PPC thoughts? Everyone is complaing, but HP don't listen...

[WyattEarp]

It would be nice if they did. Especially a redesign of that 6315. Maybe an ARM/XScale processor for better software compatability :duh: (since software is designed for it anyway) and more RAM/ROM just to start. What were they thinking :twak:

[gibson042]

My fingers are crossed, but my eyes are looking steadily at Dell.

[marcm]

My fingers are crossed, but my eyes are looking steadily at Dell.
Yeah, right now, the X50v is the Pocket PC that I've been eyeballing... I probably won't be getting a new Pocket PC until next year though... 8)

[Janak Parekh]

The poor sales is totally predicted. Don't the people designing PDA read sites like PPC thoughts? Everyone is complaing, but HP don't listen...
I'm sure there individuals at HP that regularly read PPCT, but I don't know if the decision-makers do.

--janak

[bdegroodt]

yea

they still have their ipaq 4150/4350 on their site.

the only reason they still have it is because its still their best overall PDA, even though it was released OVER a year ago....
After all these new models/series, id say theyve taken a step back

they need to start improving or start lowering prices. or how about an wm2003se update for the 4150/4350?

(can you tell i have an 4150?)

This is so true! After temporarily trying a BlackBerry phone combo (which was an excellent email tool) and the new 6315, I'm comfortably back with my 4355 and a Moto V600. They both work like a dream on TM's network and I even invested in a Vaja case (akin to buying a girl a diamond in my opinion), so it's here to stay for a while. The 4xxx devices were the closest HP has come to being perfect--IMHO.

That 6315 is a real pile...but I have one for sale (brand new) if anyone cares to put their disagreeing money where their mouth is. :D

[dma1965]

I just got a Siemens SX66 Pocket PC phone (MDA III) and only today was lamenting selling my 4155. l must say l really like the device, but I have to reset it 4 or 5 times a day because it just locks up. My 4155 almost NEVER acted up. I was setting it up for the person I sold it to and was amazed at how zippy it was compared to my new device. I would have to say it is the must reliable PDA I have ever owned, bar none.

[MS Mobiles]

Qwerty keyboard in HP phones must be built-in, not just attachable! And the phone must be smaller!!! Otherwise I still have doubts whether HP can make usable PDA phone...

[KevinK]

Not for nothing, folks, but I am a pocket pc die-hard and I just bought a treo 650. I also have and X50V I got about 6 weeks ago, which I adore, but I need the phone functionality for my business and PPC has just not gotten that down yet. It really pained me to buy the Treo, but no one's gotten it right like this device. I know, I know, BenQ P50, but where is it and who'll carry it? I can't wait any longer. The Dell meets my in -depth and wi-fi needs, while the Treo is starting to serve as an everyday friend. It's really aggravating to me for a company like HP with the iPaq brand to not leverage that and come out with something better than the 6315 - I almost bought the thing, until I heard about the speed issues and the detachable keyboard is a no-go for me...

[jt3]

I completely agree. I still have my 5555 because, frankly, NONE of the newer models offer me anything new that I want. I'd love to have VGA and WM2003SE, but frankly, neither is worth an extra $600 to me, especially if I have to give up my fingerprint scanner and 128MB of RAM.

Give me a good VGA model with 128MB of RAM (the 128MB of ROM would be nice too, but if I have to choose, I'd rather have it in RAM), BT, WiFi (802.11g would be awesome, but 802.11b is acceptable), biometrics, SDIO, and WM2003SE, and I'd dump my 5555 in a heartbeat.

I've been a loyal Compaq/HP user since the 3600 days. I've owned models in the 3600, 3700, 3800, 5400, and 5500 series (sometimes, more than one in a single series, too). In short, I've always chosen Compaq/HP over all competitors in the PDA market, but I'll be honest... if HP AND a competitor were to both offer me everything I want in a PDA right now, I'd be VERY likely to swing away from HP. The WM2003SE fiasco REALLY pi**ed me off, and the new line coming out with little or no improvements over the prior line (and in many cases, a step back) sealed the deal for me.

I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing that Compaq had bought HP, rather than the other way around. Compaq iPAQs rocked. HP iPAQs have never been more than overpriced iPAQ wannabes.

[jfreiman]

I for one still use my iPAQ 4155 (when I'm not using my Smartphone) but there is no way I'm going to "upgrade" my PPC again (this is my 4th iPAQ) unless HP listens to what their users and future users want.

Personally, I think that they should have upgraded the 4155 and had at most 3 models of iPaqs available to the public. How many does HP have now? HP has too many iPaq’s and no real features that makes one a better choice over the other.

If HP doesn't get their act together QUICKLY and cull the number of models they offer, adjust the pricing and features each provides, they are going to find the market pass them, either to competitors who have fewer models with discernable features or Windows Mobile Smartphones.

However, it's not just "us" who does not understand what HP is doing, look at their computer and more importantly their consumer electronics products? They are creating and supporting, Linux, Windows and iPod with no visible strategy to connect the devices.

Good Luck HP and iPAQ. I for one am sticking with my 4155 and my Smartphone until ONE device comes out that replaces them both – and it’s not the clunky 61xx.

[KevinK]

I even went the smartphone route with an MPx 200, which also sucked becasue the data input functionality is basically nonexistent. Basically a nice way to carry your synched contacts and read email but that's about it for me. Plus, I didn't do enough research and didn't know it was tri-band, not quad-band (that should have been made a little clearer), and the reception was generally terrible in the NYC metro area, where everyone should have perfect reception all the time! I have been nothing but pleased with the Treo, which saddens me, ironically. However, whatever works gets the job done!

[bdegroodt]

I even went the smartphone route with an MPx 200, which also sucked becasue the data input functionality is basically nonexistent. Basically a nice way to carry your synched contacts and read email but that's about it for me. Plus, I didn't do enough research and didn't know it was tri-band, not quad-band (that should have been made a little clearer), and the reception was generally terrible in the NYC metro area, where everyone should have perfect reception all the time! I have been nothing but pleased with the Treo, which saddens me, ironically. However, whatever works gets the job done!

Am assuming you have the Treo 650 on Sprint? Quad band (as I understand) would only be GSM, and I haven't seen a GSM 650 yet.

[shawnc]

I don't quite understand HP's lineup at all right now -- the 17xx units are budget-featured but not budget-priced, the new 2xxx and 3xxx units are powerful but lacking VGA and it's tough to determine the better unit, the 4700 is powerful but large and has less memory, and the 6315 doesn't even have WM2003SE. Let's see if HP can get their act together a little bit.

This say's it all! HP really dropped the ball this year. Hopefully they'll recover and release a thin, lightweight replacement with VGA for the 4150.

[jeasher]

You guys are right on the mark. I have a h4355 and I love it. I've been looking for that perfect combo device but it doesn't exist. Now that I switched to Cingular from T-Mobile I'm addicted to EDGE, which is just another feature these other devices don't have. I thought the BenQ P50 was the answer for me but no EDGE. Between that and the price, now even that won't work. My 4355 ain't broke so I don't know why I keep looking to replace it. It's fast, the keyboard is great, and the battery lasts forever. I'm just going to keep using my Nokia 6230 and h4355 until something comes out that really blows my socks off.

[dh]

Living in the Boston area, I know quite a lot of former and current HP and Compaq people.

The general feeling is that since the merger, the company is going down the drain. The current Ipaq range is just part of the problem.

I still think that the 5550 series is the best serious PPC ever made. All it needed was dual slots and it would be close to perfect.

For those not needing all the power, the 4100's are also great.

I would not be remotely interested in any of the new HP PPCs. They have taken several steps backwards as far as I'm concerned.

I guess that what happens when you lose control of the designs and just badge products from the far east.

[ctmagnus]

An HP rep told me a few weeks ago that the 5550 is the top of the line iPaq model, regardless of all the models that have been released since then. Perhaps that model should have been codenamed Climax, and everything since then would be the Denouement range. Or perhaps the Slide range.

[GoldenTiger]

I want a PPC with a cell phone, wifi, bluetooth, GPS (maybe through an SD card? doesn't have to be built-in) dual slots (CF/SDIO), at least 1megapixel camera, and a VGA screen. That would be my dream PDA!! I want to get one like this to use with Verizon, but there have been no proper ones that I have seen announced yet... anyone know of one without the phone part that would do the trick that I could buy locally (such as in CompUSA, etc.)?

[Darius Wey]

HP is working on both an integrated design and a more short term solution for current owners. The redone keypad promises to be less bulky and offer better input. On the rz1715 front, HP totally missed the mark. Within a few months we should see an update for their entry-level PDA. Details on both models are thin at best, but HP is definitely responding to what should have been a pretty obvious market reaction to these products.

You see, this is a classic example of R&amp;D gone wrong. If this is indeed true, you don't see me jumping for joy at the prospects of two new units being released. Why? (1) HP should have got it right from the start. Now there are probably thousands of consumers with an rz1715, and they're stuck with it. They won't be able to magically click their fingers and have a new unit replace it. (2) These new units will probably be overpriced once again. :roll:

[jimski]

Gee, I don't know. I am sitting here with my hx4705 (w/PPCTechs 128MB upgrade), listening to music through my HP Bluetooth headphones. With my 512MB SD and CF cards, I now have a 1.5GB device. The 4" VGA screen is nothing short of spectacular. Sure the touchpad is a bit funky, but I have never used the navigation buttons much anyway (the button on my 5450 was a bit sticky). Battery life on this device is great. I purchased two spares with the 4705 and have only taken one out of the package to date. The other one sits in my bag (I switch them out every two weeks or so) retaining it's full charge when I do need it, which has only been two or three times on really wireless intensive days. So while not perfect, this device is darn close. Sure I would have liked it to be a bit smaller, but how small can you make a 4" screen.

I agree the 17XX is an overpriced low end model and the 2XXX and 3XXX models are confusing to figure where they fit in exactly. And the 6300 is a nasty experiment that HP should just apologize for and give everyone a creit for Generation 2. But the 4700 is a well defined, top line machine. Try it, you'll like it.

NOTE: No, I don't work for HP and have never owned an HP PC or laptop.

[Alpha2004]

Yeah, they screwed up their product line and they know it, but there are still good pocket pc's to be found in the new lineup


Take the rx3715 for example, its fast, has great battery life, has a built in camera, nevo...everything a person could ask for (except vga)

[Newsboy]

I don't quite understand HP's lineup at all right now -- the 17xx units are budget-featured but not budget-priced...

I couldn't agree more. I want a new Pocket PC, and am willing to forgo all the high-end features (BT, WiFI, VGA, etc.) if I can get a device for $150-200. But I can't afford anything currently on the market.

So I sit idly waiting for a good Dell deal (%/$ off) so I can get an x50 for $200-220.

[Gavin Henriques]

I posted the following on howard forums just before Christmas. I can't believe how lame I was for not trying to snap a few photos. .The link to the original thread : http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=527444

What I said was:

"OK. some of you may not believe this, but the story I am about to share actually happened. I only share because I think it is very exciting. Anyways, I was doing some Holiday shopping last night, Dec 23. Well, that part is not hard to believe. However, while in Macy's, I noticed a guy tapping on a handheld. I did not think this was unusual until he put it to his head and began talking. It was slender and looked about the size of a treo with the same treo-type keyboard. I was about to move on when I noticed 2 things: 1. No antenna nub and 2. the section above the keyboard resembled a iPAQ 4100.

So now I am very curious and want to ask this guy about this phone. Now I am stalking him as he walks thru Macy's talking on this unknown iPAQ. All the while, I am trying to gather as much visual information as possible.

What did I see you ask? Well, again it looked like a shorter iPAQ 4300 both front and back. No camera. No CF slot. Nice looking screen, but could not tell if it was VGA? That was all I saw.

Finally, he got off the phone and I stealthily approached and asked what type of iPAQ he was using? He quickly put it in his pocket and stated that it was not a released model yet. I did notice a blue blinking light as he slipped it in his pocket. He would not answer any guestions except that he worked for a wireless carrier, it was a gsm model and business people would be very happy. He also said it was very stable in his testing...

I have no idea if it will include wifi as he would not answer any questions. 2005 is looking good for pocket pc phones. Let's see, whats coming:
1. Moto MPx
2. BenQ P500
3. New iPAQ
4. Samsung i730
5. XDA IIi
6. XDA mini with wifi and 128 MB
7. Eten
8. Asus 505
-what am I missing? For now, I will continue enjoying my PDA2k!"

[yslee]

Geez, you really know how to play with my mind yea?

*been waiting for a PPC Phone for a year already*

[Menneisyys]

You guys are right on the mark. I have a h4355 and I love it. I've been looking for that perfect combo device but it doesn't exist. Now that I switched to Cingular from T-Mobile I'm addicted to EDGE, which is just another feature these other devices don't have.

Combo devices all have serious drawbacks - it's much better to have a decent hi-end (meaning VGA) PDA and an EDGE-capable BT phone, e.g., the Nokia 6230.

[Menneisyys]

Take the rx3715 for example, its fast, has great battery life, has a built in camera, nevo...everything a person could ask for (except vga)

I'd prefer some USB host and a jog dial too :)

[Menneisyys]

An HP rep told me a few weeks ago that the 5550 is the top of the line iPaq model, regardless of all the models that have been released since then.

Unfortunately, that's true in some respect - e.g., the Wi-Fi range. I just can't understand why later HP models (especially the hi-end hx4700) can't have the same (excellent) Wi-Fi range of the 5450/5550... See e.g. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36364 on this.

[yslee]

Combo devices all have serious drawbacks - it's much better to have a decent hi-end (meaning VGA) PDA and an EDGE-capable BT phone, e.g., the Nokia 6230.

Very clunky to use. Plus having it on the phone gives it a higher priority for me. I never referred much to my iPAQ then, but when I used the Tungsten W, I used it a whole lot more!

[NLS]

Give me a good VGA model with 128MB of RAM (the 128MB of ROM would be nice too, but if I have to choose, I'd rather have it in RAM), BT, WiFi (802.11g would be awesome, but 802.11b is acceptable), biometrics, SDIO, and WM2003SE, and I'd dump my 5555 in a heartbeat.

well this exists (minus biometrics - there are nice reliable alternatives you know) in more than one variations and with MORE capabilities you don't even mention

try a LOOX 720
my best ever PDA
BY FAR.-

[NLS]

Gee, I don't know. I am sitting here with my hx4705 (w/PPCTechs 128MB upgrade), listening to music through my HP Bluetooth headphones. With my 512MB SD and CF cards, I now have a 1.5GB device. The 4" VGA screen is nothing short of spectacular. Sure the touchpad is a bit funky, but I have never used the navigation buttons much anyway (the button on my 5450 was a bit sticky). Battery life on this device is great. I purchased two spares with the 4705 and have only taken one out of the package to date. The other one sits in my bag (I switch them out every two weeks or so) retaining it's full charge when I do need it, which has only been two or three times on really wireless intensive days. So while not perfect, this device is darn close. Sure I would have liked it to be a bit smaller, but how small can you make a 4" screen.

I agree the 17XX is an overpriced low end model and the 2XXX and 3XXX models are confusing to figure where they fit in exactly. And the 6300 is a nasty experiment that HP should just apologize for and give everyone a creit for Generation 2. But the 4700 is a well defined, top line machine. Try it, you'll like it.

NOTE: No, I don't work for HP and have never owned an HP PC or laptop.

no but you are the TYPICAL HP customer... ru u sure you have seen OTHER PDA?

[NLS]

There's not a whole lot of detail in the article, but the idea makes sense. I don't quite understand HP's lineup at all right now -- the 17xx units are budget-featured but not budget-priced, the new 2xxx and 3xxx units are powerful but lacking VGA and it's tough to determine the better unit, the 4700 is powerful but large and has less memory, and the 6315 doesn't even have WM2003SE. Let's see if HP can get their act together a little bit.

FINALLY somebody said things publicly AS I've said already MONTHS ago

[pgh1969pa]

The poor sales is totally predicted. Don't the people designing PDA read sites like PPC thoughts? Everyone is complaing, but HP don't listen...

But the users that frequent this and other sites are just a subset of the total user pool. We don't reflect the full span of user wants &amp; needs.

[MobileAGBell]

I believe hp is now at the point where tough decisions need to be made. They are too big. Too many products. My guess is revenue from the iPAQ product represents about 5% or less of their total 2004 revenue.

I believe they need to sell off the iPAQ handheld division, if there is a seperate divison. Until then I don't think we will see the innovative, controversial, cutting edge iPAQ handheld products that we have seen in the past. Merely handheld devices manufactured to meet certain price points.

[Typhoon]

I think if HP came out w/a PDA like the Zaurus c860 (which is what I have) but w/Wi-Fi &amp; BT, it would be a top seller.... am I wrong?

[pgh1969pa]

I believe hp is now at the point where tough decisions need to be made. They are too big. Too many products. My guess is revenue from the iPAQ product represents about 5% or less of their total 2004 revenue.

I believe they need to sell off the iPAQ handheld division, if there is a seperate divison. Until then I don't think we will see the innovative, controversial, cutting edge iPAQ handheld products that we have seen in the past. Merely handheld devices manufactured to meet certain price points.

iPAQs don't even represent 1% of there revenues. If HP's handheld strategy was just focused on the consumer market, I might agree with you. Since the IPAQ is part of a vertical market solution as well as a consumers, I think it's good that they have segmented the market. Unfortunately, I don't think that they found the correct mix of features, pricing, size, &amp; styling for the consumer market and the corporate market did not take off like they hoped.

[Jonathon Watkins]

But the 4700 is a well defined, top line machine. Try it, you'll like it.

I'm glad you like it Jimski, but I can't get past that touchpad. I do like that 4 inch screen and the magnesium case, but it's lacking too many features - and did I mention I really don't like the toughpad? (sic)

[Jonathon Watkins]

Perhaps that model should have been codenamed . . . the Slide range.

:lol: Harsh, but fair! :lol:

[shawnc]

But the users that frequent this and other sites are just a subset of the total user pool. We don't reflect the full span of user wants &amp; needs.

Agreed. But we represent what should be a significant barometer for any PPC company to use as a guage for what consumers want and what type of product will be successful. Any PPC manufacturer who disregards these types of sites will find themselves in the same position as HP currently does. With a bunch of overpriced units and very minimal consumer demand.

[KH]

Reading this thread I felt an increasing urge to post a defense for my 4705 - until I got to jimski's which I thought made the point very well. But being in an obvious minority I thought I'd better add my comments anyway!

The 4705 in the best of the 6 Pocket PCs I have had. It is so thin that the size doesn't bother me, and that 4 inch screen is a dream! It just happens to provide the things highest on my wish list over the years - screen quality, speed, and dual card slots. I am just amazed with the words-per-page I can get with ereader and SE_VGA. It is an amazing device for picture and video viewing, and with its speed it is great for real-time note taking with Calligrapher. Also I really like the extra ROM for installing programs and maps, leaving the cards for media and really big reference books. The blocky shape isn't the prettiest - but it is a great design for Landscape viewing.

It isn't perfect - everytime I get a Pocket PC there are a few things I would change. But at the moment there isn't anything that bothers me enough to trade it in, and there isn't anything out there that would do the job as well anyway. I might upgrade the memory if I run up against that as a limitation and can move beyond my concerns about the battery drain of keeping the extra RAM alive. But I haven't needed to yet and for my uses the RAM/ROM balance is pretty good.

Also I am in the camp of shying away from combo devices. A built in camera would turn it into a non-starter, and there are many times when I need a small phone and wouldn't carry a PocketPC along anyway - trail-riding or skiing for example.

If it doesn't provide your top 'wants' (like carrying it in a pocket or playing games or combo-functionality), then it isn't the device for you. But for me it is a delight, and I would never say HP missed the boat on this one!!

[gibson042]

I would not be remotely interested in any of the new HP PPCs. They have taken several steps backwards as far as I'm concerned.

I guess that what happens when you lose control of the designs and just badge products from the far east.
Hey now. HTC puts out some spectacular designs, and IMHO are unparalleled when it comes to Phone Editions. HP's problems appear to be self-inflicted.

[racerx]

I've has my 4700 for a few weeks now, and other than the memory contraint, which I'm always mindful of, I think this device rocks. I don't mind the blocky shape and the touchpad just needs some getting used to. But that's not a big deal. But like some others, a built-in camera would be a deal-killer and a converged device wouldn't work for me at all. Having the ability to just use my Nokia 6230 as a high-speed modem works well for me. But works even better for me is not being locked to a carrier or cell type (GSM or CDMA). With my setup, I can change phones or carriers as I see fit and don't have to worry about it affecting my handheld.
If HP comes out with a 4700 with 256MB of RAM that can be used as a flash drive like the T5, that would be an excellent device!

[ctmagnus]

I would like to see them stepping up to the plate with... great service.

I haven't seen anything otherwise out of them yet. I just hope they don't ship their phone support overseas.

[shawnc]

KH,

I'm no fan of the new HP's, but I like how you stated your case. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as long as you're happy. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Nice job.

NLS - you need to BACK UP! Let's not allow this to become a flame-throwing contest.

[dh]

I think if HP came out w/a PDA like the Zaurus c860 (which is what I have) but w/Wi-Fi &amp; BT, it would be a top seller.... am I wrong?
Agree. The 860 has the best form factor of any pda (by far) and the only thing missing is built-in wireless.

It would be a tough choice for me if I had to decide between an MS or Linux version. On the whole, I prefer the Cacko ROM to PPC, but I do admit there are one or two apps I miss.

[Twain]

I agree with everyone who has been confused by the proliferation of PDA models HP has on the market. I am confused as well. I recently bought a HP hx4700 which I assumed was the top of the line Pocket PC from HP, yet some reviews suggest that the rx3715 "mobile media companion" has a better audio system. Why shouldn't the hx4700 have an audio system as good as the best Pocket PC that HP sells??

Here is some product feedback in case HP is reading this forum:

(1) I don't care about the iPAQ "brand." My last Pocket PC was a HP Jornada 568 and I loved it! I still have it, however, the operating system was aging and I wanted access to newer software based on .NET technologies. I have always equated the HP brand with cutting edge, high quality, great technology and products that last. Let's not forget that in future products.

(2) I don't want or need a phone and/or camera with my Pocket PC. Also, I have no problem with the size of the hx4700.

(3) Pare down the number of Pocket PC models available and spend the product development funds on features users really want. What are those features? Just read this forum!

(4) Even though I recently bought a hx4700, I would buy another in a heartbeat if it included 128 MB of RAM. (Yes there is that 85 MB of "iPAQ File Store", but I am still learning how to use it to place applications and data there when they install. There were no examples in the documentation that walked the user through a File Store install for a typical application.)

(5) Items I love about the hx4700: built-in Wi-Fi; protective screen cover; VGA resolution; presence of both SD and Compact Flash cards; bluetooth; top of the line Intel PXA270 processor.

(6) Finally, if HP wants to have product differentiation, they should consider introducing a clamshell version of the hx4700 Pocket PC but with 128 MB RAM, the same length and width as the hx4700 but can be thicker to accomodate a keyboard, superior audio capabilities and a user replaceable backup battery. The price point shouldn't be higher than $750.

Those are my Pocket PC thoughts!

Twain

[ricoks]

Twain - I like how you end your posts.
Aint it great that we live here, and can love what WE love. I for one will only buy what works for MY needs, and am glad there are options.
Now, if only those options weren't so DARN expensive.......... :evil:
agreed about the price, but i dont mind having MANY different HP Ipaqs....

[pgh1969pa]

Agreed. But we represent what should be a significant barometer for any PPC company to use as a guage for what consumers want and what type of product will be successful. Any PPC manufacturer who disregards these types of sites will find themselves in the same position as HP currently does. With a bunch of overpriced units and very minimal consumer demand.

While I agree with you with regards to the consumer market but there's more out there besides the consumer market. Enterprise customers are probably willing to spend more and are less demanding. Enterprise users are less likely to ask for media streaming, USB hosting, VGA, TV remote controls, OS upgrades, &amp; gaming capabilities. The consumer market demands more and is less willing to pay for these added features. If HP could keep the iPAQ alive and abandon the consumer market at the same time, I think they would.

Secondly, just because they are disappointed with the sales of some models it doesn't mean that demand has been "minimal". Disappointment and minimal are not mutually inclusive terms. For all we know, it could be just a matter of HP having high expectations.

[Typhoon]

I think if HP came out w/a PDA like the Zaurus c860 (which is what I have) but w/Wi-Fi &amp; BT, it would be a top seller.... am I wrong?
Agree. The 860 has the best form factor of any pda (by far) and the only thing missing is built-in wireless.

It would be a tough choice for me if I had to decide between an MS or Linux version. On the whole, I prefer the Cacko ROM to PPC, but I do admit there are one or two apps I miss.

Yea, I actually don't plan on buying a MS OS based PDA until it is on a clamshell device...seriously...I think the idea has to get to some PDA maker at least this year. But the idea I have been thinking about lately is that it would be cool if they made a PDA that looks exactly like a laptop. I think that would catch people's attention in the store. Maybe look like one of Apple's notebooks, like the Titanium iBook, and have at least one USB 2.0 port for syncing and charging (instead of a stupid proprietary deviant USB port), swivel screen, 512 MB flash RAM, 2 x SDIO slots, etc. I think that would be an awesome idea. And stick to HTC...since they are the ones producing small mainboards that can allow a big 1640 mAh battery in such a small design. Or maybe a PDA that looks like the Dell 700m...that would be awesome. Linux is a great OS, and I wouldn't mind using it...but I don't know how well it would work for those non-tech type people, lol you know? Like mom and dad. Like grandmom and granddad. Those people think differently than us.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Finally, if HP wants to have product differentiation, they should consider introducing a clamshell version of the hx4700 Pocket PC but with 128 MB RAM, the same length and width as the hx4700 but can be thicker to accomodate a keyboard, superior audio capabilities and a user replaceable backup battery. The price point shouldn't be higher than $750.

Amen. When will we get our clamshells back? :? Who knows, maybe HP will release the 'Secret' flippable clamshell/handheld prototype we were teased with last year? (Though I'm not holding my breath). :?

Those are my Pocket PC thoughts!

And very good they are too. :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

For all we know, it could be just a matter of HP having high expectations.

Well, if so that may not have not been wise, considering our low expectations. :wink:

[yslee]

(6) Finally, if HP wants to have product differentiation, they should consider introducing a clamshell version of the hx4700 Pocket PC but with 128 MB RAM, the same length and width as the hx4700 but can be thicker to accomodate a keyboard, superior audio capabilities and a user replaceable backup battery. The price point shouldn't be higher than $750.



Yes yes, release this already!

http://www.pocketgamer.org/newspics/hp-qui.gif

[Phillip Dyson]

As you can see in my sig I had been with HP for sometime prior to my current PPC. I too found it hard to figure out what HP's marketing strategy was for their handhelds.

I liked the 4700 except for:
Touchpad, 64MB memory (that was 1 of the main reasons why I upgraded), and believe it or not the PocketInformant in ROM.

The last one probably an irrational concern.

As to convergence I have to say the 6300 was a big disappointment. There is a guy that I work with who is adamantly opposed to anything M$. Well I convinced him that Windows Mobile was a quality platform compared to his Palm. Well he without checking with me he bought the 6300. And hated it. He went back to his Palm to wait and see where they were going to go.

I spent sometime to convince him that he should give another a chance, namely the XDA II. But I soon realized that it was lost oppurtunity to convert another poor Palm soul. :)

To be honest, if any convergence device was going to lure me away, it would be the XDA II. Another of my office mates just upgraded from the XDA I and I have to say, that I can't help wanting to play with it.

But I don't want to give up my processor, vga, and dual expansion.
Plus the camera is a negative for me.

[riuster]

Im in need of a new PDA to replace my Ipaq 3900, and so far, I have been reading this and that, and doing alot of research, hearing that and this and this is my take

HP: My first choice, then everyone claims the design stinks, controls are horrible, only 64mb of ram, no this, no that? Ok No cam, I am dissappointed in not having a cam, it is convenient to have.

Some claim its excellent, some claim it crap, so who am I to believe? I have 2 HP computers, one laptop and one multimedia and so far, their customer service is EXCELLENT compared with others, and also DELL is EXCELLENT (I just dont like Mr. Dell, hahaha) and hearing stories, some of you are comparing apples and oranges, you are comparing a VGA 4700 with other NON VGA models, how absurd, get your apples and oranges first, then compare, dont compare a BMW with a Toyota, compare it with a Lexus, their higher class brand!

Some of you say it sucks, perhaps its not the machine, but YOU? Did you ask yourself that? USER ERROR, perhaps? Ill give you an example, like my car, I have a BMW M3, other drivers say it breaks down, engine faults etc....but I never had an issue? Why is this, perhaps it was a bad model, or again USER ERROR, they drive the car like a bat out of hell and abuse it then claim its the manufactuer's fault.

LOOX 720: This unit is a good machine, as others have said, and some find it dissappointing, reset after reset, also for USA customers there is not warranty? I have to ship it to europe to get it fixed so for USA customers, if this thing cracks, it will crack you. Wait a long turn over time for a replacement or a fix. I see no benefit in having a PDA that may break and then I have no warranty in the states, I have to export it and wait, wait and wait!

Asus 730W: Great machine, first VGA PDA with a cam, as they claim, just like how they claim to give you a RMA number quickly, its ridiculous to hear my friends advise me that their customer service is SUB PAR, it takes 4 weeks or more to get a replacement in any part, also 15 minute wait times on the phone, wtf is this kind of service, your asus breaks down, it will be worse than Fujitsu.

Dell X50: Great machine, great VGA PDA, but some claim that the screen stinks? hmm...I dont know..until I see it and its not powerful either? All I know is that if a Dell breaks, you got Dell to give you a new one in a week or so....FAST TURNAROUND....

So gents, compare the apples with the apples...Compare HP models with other type of the same type, apples and apples and oranges and oranges!

Also, Warranties is part of the package, it shouldnt be excluded from product choice

[Typhoon]

LOOX 720: This unit is a good machine, as others have said, and some find it dissappointing, reset after reset, also for USA customers there is not warranty? I have to ship it to europe to get it fixed so for USA customers, if this thing cracks, it will crack you. Wait a long turn over time for a replacement or a fix. I see no benefit in having a PDA that may break and then I have no warranty in the states, I have to export it and wait, wait and wait!

**** I HAVE HAD THIS PDA: IT'S NEARLY PERFECT, EXCEPT THAT WHEN YOU DO NEED TO RESET IT, YOU CAN'T USE THE STYLUS TIP BECAUSE THE RESET HOLE IS TOO TINY...YOU HAVE TO UNSCREW THE STYLUS TOP TO GET THE RESET TIP...VERY ANNOYING. YEA, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE WARRANTY THERE SINCE I NEVER HAD TO USE IT. FAST, ROOMY RAM, CAMERA, JOG-DIAL BUTTON, 8 HR BATTERY LIFE, THIN, NICE SCREEN THAT GETS WAYYY BETTER VIEWING ANGLES THAN CG SILICON (CG SILICON IS MUCH BRIGHTER). ****

Asus 730W: Great machine, first VGA PDA with a cam, as they claim, just like how they claim to give you a RMA number quickly, its ridiculous to hear my friends advise me that their customer service is SUB PAR, it takes 4 weeks or more to get a replacement in any part, also 15 minute wait times on the phone, wtf is this kind of service, your asus breaks down, it will be worse than Fujitsu.

**** I HAD THE A730 BEFORE...SO I WOULD SAY THE A730W WOULD BE PERFECT, EXCEPT THAT IT'S BATTERY LIFE ABSOLUTELY SUCKS. I WOULD RATHER GO W/THE LOOX. ONE GUY TOLD ME HE WANTED THE A730W BUT W/AN EXTENDED BATTERY...I KNOW HE WILL GET A PDA ABOUT 1 INCH THICK. THE A730W GETS 2 HOURS OR LESS OF BATTERY LIFE? I'LL NEVER BUY IT. ****

Dell X50: Great machine, great VGA PDA, but some claim that the screen stinks? hmm...I dont know..until I see it and its not powerful either? All I know is that if a Dell breaks, you got Dell to give you a new one in a week or so....FAST TURNAROUND....

**** I HAVE HAD THIS ONE TOO. ACTUALLY IT'S SCREEN IS GREAT! NOTHING BEATS VGA RESOLUTION. WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS, THEY ARE WAY TOO PICKY. IT IS SHARP, CRISP, ETC. IT'S MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE FORM WISE, HOLDING WISE, AND BUTTON WISE THAN THE A730W AND LOOX 720. PLUS IT HAS A BUTTON THAT AUTOMATICALLY ENABLES WI-FI ON/OFF WHICH IS REALLY CONVIENIENT. BATTERY LIFE SUCKS, USING AN EXTENDED BATTERY WILL MAKE YOU NOT WANT TO PUT IT INTO YOUR POCKET, NO JOG-DIAL BUTTON. IT IS A FAST DEVICE, JUST UPDATE THE PDA W/GAPICARD DRIVER FILES AND IT WILL RUN MUCH FASTER (GRAPHICS WISE). PLUS SOMEONE HAS DEVELOPED SNES EMU TO WORK W/THE GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR, SO THE GAMES RUN PREFECT W/SOUND. ****

So gents, compare the apples with the apples...Compare HP models with other type of the same type, apples and apples and oranges and oranges!

Also, Warranties is part of the package, it shouldnt be excluded from product choice

[NLS]

I never unscrew the stylus. Just press hard enough with the normal tip. It will reset (no sideffects on stylus or hole). Add to this that of course with a 720 you need to soft reset much less than ANY HP I've seen.

(btw I am thinking of filling the stylus with glue or something heavier plus glue, it will give it a few grams to be held more confortably plus won't allow it to break so easily)

[Jason Lee]

I had a ipaq 2215 until recently. There are lots of cool features in all the new ipaqs but you can't get all the cool features in one ipaq. Everyone of the new devices would have been a compromise. I what these features but cannot get them in one unit.
For me, if hp would put the media (camera, nevo, etc.) of the 3700 into the 4700 plus 128 mb of ram (128 rom would be nice also) I would have bought that. Then they could have also made the exact same model only without a camera. This could have elemitaned the 3xxx line all togather.
I really like the way dell has the 3 levels of basicly the same device. Much simpler.

I bought the siemens SX66 on a 30 day trial and after using it for a month am gonna have to keep it. I have always been in the camp of people who want a highend pocket pc and a fast data connection phone. It is soo much eaiser to upgrade that way. But what can I say, i'm hooked. :) I figure i'll use the sx66 until the next generation with WM2005 or what ever it will be and that new CF standard come out.

And yes the sx66 was a compromise as well. I lost my CF slot and nevo... But the sx66 is soo much faster, loooots more memory (ram and rom), a much better looking screen, builtin wifi, and the phone is more convienent than i thought it would ever be. Oh and the build in thumb board is great. So i guess it the long run it is and upgrade over my 2215 but is was a dificult one. I was going to give my 2215 to my fiance but can't seem to let it go yet... :lol:

[Menneisyys]

I agree with everyone who has been confused by the proliferation of PDA models HP has on the market. I am confused as well. I recently bought a HP hx4700 which I assumed was the top of the line Pocket PC from HP, yet some reviews suggest that the rx3715 "mobile media companion" has a better audio system. Why shouldn't the hx4700 have an audio system as good as the best Pocket PC that HP sells??

The same can be asked regarding the comparatively weak Wi-Fi range of the hx4700. The 5450/5550 had much better Wi-Fi range. It was one of the showstoppers for me for NOT choosing the hx4700 over the Pocket Loox 720.

[rmasinag]

I'm interested in the improvements they're planning for the 6300 because I'm planning to pick up one in March. I might hold off till I see what changes they are implementing. :)

[Jeff Rutledge]

Comments bashing the 4700 moved here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36454&amp;highlight=).

Please do not turn this into a device-bashing thread.

[WyattEarp]

Comments related to how the 4700 sux moved here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36454&amp;highlight=).

Please do not turn this into a device-bashing thread.

After reading all this I have two words... Thank You.

[carrigaline]

Twain - I like how you end your posts.
Aint it great that we live here, and can love what WE love. I for one will only buy what works for MY needs, and am glad there are options.
Now, if only those options weren't so DARN expensive.......... :evil:
agreed about the price, but i dont mind having MANY different HP Ipaqs....

"Live here"? What about the rest of the world? There is a very international membership on this site......including people from the US too.

[shawnc]

Secondly, just because they are disappointed with the sales of some models it doesn't mean that demand has been "minimal". Disappointment and minimal are not mutually inclusive terms. For all we know, it could be just a matter of HP having high expectations.

I didn't mean to imply (and I'm not so sure that I did) that disappointment and minimal were mutually exclusive. You're right, it's too early to tell what is causing HP's disappointment, but speculating is part of the fun of this site :wink: . My guess is that HP's disappointment is caused by tepid demand. I don't think the enterprise market has come anywhere near what they expected for these devices, and consumer demand has been limited as well. I predict big discounts for these devices in the not-to-distant future. Obviously you have those technical types who need the extra power offered by the new devices. You also have some people who actually prefer a device with a little heft to it. Then you have those who have fallen in love with VGA and are willing to accept a few comprimises to get it. I just think MOST people would prefer maximum functionality and minimum size in a POCKET PC. HP has created the almost perfect form factor for those people with the 1940/4150. For some strange reason they decided to run away from that award-winning design as though they had some sort of contagious disease. I think their "disappointment" is the price they are paying for such a strategy.

[KH]

Actually the fact that the 4705 screen is so good not just because it is VGA, but because of its larger (4 inch) size. It is an amazing device for reading because it is both clear and large. I have one ebook - Macroscope by Piers Anthony - that I could only get in PDF format. I can read it on the 4705 without any side-to-side scrolling, and that makes it workable. It is also great for showing photos and watching videos. I loved my 2215, but I really have become addicted to the size of this screen, and it would be difficult to step down to anything smaller.

[jickbahtech]

I'm not really expecting much from HP on these product updates.
I have to agree with previous comments, that we are going to pay a lot for not a lot of improvement (almost as if HP were punishing us for questioning the products they release :wink: ). Hopefully they fix a lot, but I doubt it.
It looks like my trusty 3950 will just have to hold out a little longer, as I'm not upgrading to ANY of the devices on the market. Theres always one thing that just holds me back (USB Host, processor speed, RAM/ROM, etc).
The h2700 is the closest one for me in terms of what I want, and even it is missing 2 biggies (VGA and USB host). With WM2005 Looming in the (not to distant?) future, I have very little faith in WM2003SE devices and Manufacturers offering upgrade paths.

[OFF TOPIC]
All that being said I like the direction the 4700 could take us. What if SmartPhones took over as basic PIM gear and web browsers, and more traditional PDA's filled a Micro-Tablet like role. I realized a little while ago, that I treated my old M505 as a roldex and a calendar. I now treat my 3950 as a quasi-laptop replacement.
If companies like HP and Dell (and Toshiba and Asus and Fujitsu and...) can make the effort to take just another couple steps towards the OQO camp, it could make for some fantastic kit.

[Peguero]

Currently I have a Ipaq 2215 and a Sony Ericsson T616. I was seriously looking at the 6300 as a replacement that would combine the best of both cell phone and pda. Luckily I decided NOT to immediately buy it.

Idea behind 6300 was great, however processor speed is horrible, available memory is horrible and the incompatibility is unacceptible.

I use all the features of my Ipaq- Notes, contacts, calendar, mp3, I even use it for video purposes..(major sticking point for me with 6300, software I use for video is not compatible and processor speed completely inadequate)

HP could have done a MUCH, MUCH better job. I mean wasn't there tag line "INVENT" with the current line up looks like it changed from "INVENT" to "throw together"

[Len M.]

Our PDAudio-CF product needs a CF slot, and we also need a slot for storage (CF, SD, external hard drives all work) or USB host capability for an external USB drive.

Until recently we recommended two HP iPAQ configurations: an h2210/2215 for recording to SD cards, and an h5100- or h5500-series with an expansion pack. The expansion pack could be a single PCMCIA/CF when recording to the on-board SD card slot, or a dual PCMCIA for recording to CF flash memory/hard drive, PCMCIA hard drive or external hard drive (via PCMCIA interface).

HP, without any warning to its partner vendors, discontinued all the iPAQs that could use expansion packs. That left us hosted on PDAs that had two slots. The h2210/2215 is our standard.

When we wanted to upgrade to PDAs that use the new, very fast PXA270 processor, the choices from HP were the hx2700- and the hx4700- series -- both lack VGA screens. The choices from other vendors are the Dell Axim X50 and X50v (the latter having VGA), Siemens/Fujitsu Look 720, Asus A730, and Toshiba e830. The Toshiba also offers USB 1.1 host capability that can use external USB hard drives.

Have a look at their technical features and retail prices, then decide which PDAs you'd recommend to your customers. The Dell comes out on top. Unless HP adds VGA and lowers the price on the two-slot iPAQs, they're in for a rough ride.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com
Home of PDAudio

[superfaron]

Len,

The 4700 iPaq does have a vga screen.

[Len M.]

Thanks for the correction. The hx2700-series does not.

The hx4700 is still a fair bit more expensive than the Dell X50v. Larger too.



Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com
Home of PDAudio

[JoeDawg]

Well what about the 5555. I purchased one of these puppies with the"promise" that HP would be releasing software to enable the sim slot under the battery. The word is that this slot is not even wired.

In addition, now the 5555 is phased out ad replaced by the 6xxx series.

I agree with bdegroodt, back to my 5555 and V600, this set-up rocks.

BTW, if anyone is having trouble setting-up the blurtooth modem on Cingular give a shout, took me a Saturday on the phone but I managed to get a Tech that knew what he was talking about.

TheDawg

[Menneisyys]

Well what about the 5555. I purchased one of these puppies with the"promise" that HP would be releasing software to enable the sim slot under the battery. The word is that this slot is not even wired.

I have to defend HP: HP has never promised a SIM "upgrade". They "only" promised, back in Summer/Autumn 2003 (the time of the WM2003 upgrades for iPAQ 38xx+'s) their customers that iPAQ 39xx+'s will receive the "next major op. system upgrade". (Remember WM2003SE? :( )

[WyattEarp]

Well what about the 5555. I purchased one of these puppies with the"promise" that HP would be releasing software to enable the sim slot under the battery. The word is that this slot is not even wired.

In addition, now the 5555 is phased out ad replaced by the 6xxx series.

I agree with bdegroodt, back to my 5555 and V600, this set-up rocks.

BTW, if anyone is having trouble setting-up the blurtooth modem on Cingular give a shout, took me a Saturday on the phone but I managed to get a Tech that knew what he was talking about.

TheDawg

If you take out the battery and look at the SIM slot you will see that the SIM card hardware is missing all together (no prongs, just a piece of foam rubber) :( . So not wired is an understatement. I believe only the 5400's had a wired SIM card slot. It's little things like this that annoy the daylights out of me. Oh well, waiting for WM2005 I guess.

[Menneisyys]

I believe only the 5400's had a wired SIM card slot.

Not even that - as with the 555x, it only had the place for the SIM card, no actual wires.

It seems the HP engineers didn't want to re-engineer 5450 after the 56xx series (it would have been, back in 2002, HP's iPAQ model with built-in GSM but the project was entirely cancelled because of serious technical problems) has been entirely cancelled.

[JoeDawg]

Well I am referring to comments made by the HP rep in CompUSA as I was looking at handhelds, dont care what the article may have said. My 5555 has a sticker over the sim slot that states the warranty is void if removed. This leads (led) me to believe that the wiring is there.

THese guys will tell you whatever they must to make a sale or promote their product, there is NO accountability.

All in all though, the 5555 is a work horse and I do not regret buying it. Truth is I have found I prefer 2 devices, and the bluetooth works well.

Dawg