Samsung and Lexar Spawn Two More Flash Card Formats

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0412/04121401samsung_mmcmicro.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0412/0...ng_mmcmicro.asp</a><br /><br /></div>"Samsung has launched a new multimedia card for camera phones that is one third the size of RS-MMC. The MMCmicro has been designed as a response to the decreasing size of mobile phone cameras. The card has exceptionally good read and write speeds for such a small device at 10MB and 7MB per second respectively. Production of the MMCmicro will begin early next year with 32MB, 64MB and 128MB capacities."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/samsung_mmcmicrocard.gif" /> <br /><br />Yup, it's yet another Flash Card Format. That <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32511&amp;">242-in-1 card reader</a> is looking more feasible by the day. Discuss. ;-)<br /> <br />Update: Darius just pointed out that Lexar have just released another format <a href="http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000020023447/">called UFC</a>. This one has a built-in USB connector so you can plug it directly to your computer to copy over files, so it's basically a tiny USB flash drive. Joy. :|

[Dopeman]

well at least the speeds sound good but the Industry should get down to 2 standards at most.

I think SD is the best in size and most popular for normal use, and i can understand that its too big for mobile phones. So we have rs-mmc and rs-sd but another format will just end up like the not wide spread xd-card.

So why do it? Maybe to got Sony style to bind the consumers to Samsung ? or to finally have the 242-in-1 card reader and 5-Slot PPC and Mobile Phones with 20 different Wireless Protocols?

But its still better than if we only had the one microsoft memory stick right !? :D

[Darius Wey]

Yup, it's yet another Flash Card Format. That 242-in-1 card reader (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32511&amp;) is looking more feasible by the day. Discuss. ;-)

There's also the new Lexar UFC. That 242-in-1 card reader may not be *enough* in the future! ;)

[Jonathon Watkins]

But its still better than if we only had the one microsoft memory stick right !? :D

Sure, but why do you need more than CF, SD and mini SD? :wink:

[Dopeman]

Sure, but why do you need more than CF, SD and mini SD? :wink:

Exactly I think those 3 have everything anyone could want and they are the 3 formats which will stay.

CF for microdrives and big IO Devices (PROsumer stuff digital cameras)

SD the perfect format for all day use and IMHO the only format spread wide enoug to stay a long time

RS-SD the small mobile format for everything that is too small for sd (maybe successor of sd?)

Why is there still MMC ? are the patent costs from Panasonic for SD still so high?

Any way im sticking to SD! And Im not going to jump on that Sony Memory kind of train :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

There's also the new Lexar UFC.

Duly updated. Ta.

That 242-in-1 card reader may not be *enough* in the future! ;)

:cry:

[Darius Wey]

Duly updated. Ta.

;)

Interestingly, the UFC is royalty-free so any Average Joe company can start mass-producing these. It may mean lower costs for consumers...perhaps? I've been wondering for many days whether these will ever be incorporated in PDAs.

[dlangton]

Why is there still MMC ?

From my perspective, it's more like 'Why is there still SD?' It's just another form of MMC with some features added that your PDA can't use.

[Dopeman]

From my perspective, it's more like 'Why is there still SD?' It's just another form of MMC with some features added that your PDA can't use.

Which features? the write protection :?: Why cant you use it on a PPC?

but SD cards are faster than MMC cards or not !?

[Darius Wey]

From my perspective, it's more like 'Why is there still SD?' It's just another form of MMC with some features added that your PDA can't use.

Which features? the write protection :?: Why cant you use it on a PPC?

but SD cards are faster than MMC cards or not !?

SD have a host of features that have made it a more preferred format over MMC. SD has the edge of MMC in terms of speed. It also features a write protection switch, which for the consumer, has its ups and downs, but FWIW, if you don't use it, ignore it. ;) SD cards are said to be more durable and electrostatic resistant than MMC. The other feature is the cryptographic security which helps with copyright protection. Companies would obviously prefer a format which has better copyright protection, which is probably another reason why adoption of SD has been more widespread than MMC, even though a lot of devices using them tend to be universally compatible with both formats. Anyway, the surge in demand of SD has led to a drop in prices, and SD is now the cheaper of the two formats.

[bjornkeizers]

It's time for a bit of storage media liposuction IMO. I personally only use SD at the moment for everything except my Sony Clie (of course). As far as I care, they can ditch everything except SD and maybe one other larger card type (like a new CF)

Do we really need so many inferior formats like three types of MS? MMC? How about those XD cards nobody's even seen let alone used?

Two is more then enough. Just look at PC's - they only come with CD and DVD drives these days. My laptop doesn't even have a floppy drive anymore, instead I do have an SD/MS card reader, which I like just fine. Less is more in this case.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

We really should just give up on this topic. It seems that every couple of months a new format is announced. We all (myself included) groan about the lack of wisdom behind the decision but are helpless to stop it from happening.

I am convinced now though that many of these new formats won't go very far because they won't have consumer support. It's becoming more and more clear with each passing month that SD &amp; MS is here to stay for the long run alongside with CF. Everyone else is just looking to lick the jar clean of leftovers.

[ADBrown]

As far as I care, they can ditch everything except SD and maybe one other larger card type (like a new CF)

Why should we need a new CF? The existing CF works fine.

[Jonathon Watkins]

We really should just give up on this topic. It seems that every couple of months a new format is announced. We all (myself included) groan about the lack of wisdom behind the decision but are helpless to stop it from happening.

Still, I'm guessing you want to hear about new Flash formats, even if you don' like them? If we don't say anything about the proliferation of standards, the manufactures won't hear anything.........

The squeeky wheel gets the oil!

I am convinced now though that many of these new formats won't go very far because they won't have consumer support. It's becoming more and more clear with each passing month that SD &amp; MS is here to stay for the long run alongside with CF. Everyone else is just looking to lick the jar clean of leftovers.

Yes, but the death knell of these formats will leave a lot of stranded consumers. :?

[sponge]

I hear the same complaints every time a new standard comes out... but how many of them have actually made it to market?

[Jonathon Watkins]

I hear the same complaints every time a new standard comes out... but how many of them have actually made it to market?


Ummm, all of them? Which ones are you aware of that haven't made it into production?

[Mark Johnson]

Interestingly, the UFC is royalty-free so any Average Joe company can start mass-producing these.


UFC is excellent! The main problem with thumb drives is that they have such wierd physical sizes (seen the iDuck?) that they couldn't be used inside normal consumer electronics devices. (Kinda tough to stuff an iDuck into your camera or mp3 player.)

USB mass storage is the best possible solution precisely because of the joke 242-in-1 reader problem: You don't need a reader at all! All we need is for future PDA's to have a USB host port and we're done!

I've been wondering if something like this might be coming soon since I got my IntelligentStick (super-thin and small USB drive) several months ago.

[Paul P]

Man, bad news, all these new formats lately make Sony look just like any other company out there. :lol: Lets see how friendly all these manufacturers will be in sharing these new formats between their products.

Seriously though, anybody actually surprised by this? Profits first, consumers second. I predicted the size of the memory cards to go down but not this drastically. I don't mind the size, just the LONG wait for manufacturers to boost capacity for smaller cards.

[beq]

Do you think they can make the UFC even smaller/thinner, and use a miniUSB connector instead? :)

What are the exact dimensions of UFC? My concern is the thickness, and how thick a UFC slot would have to be, making it a tight fit in PDAs? What kind of slot is used for UFC anyways, is it basically a USB female port (like on your computer) but one that's recessed really deep, so that the UFC card fits flush when inserted? But if it's recessed it won't be able to be used as a general USB host port for other USB devices, which seems a waste (it would mean a PDA has to provide 2 USB ports, one standard and one recessed)? Perhaps there can be a USB "extender" adapter for the recessed port to basically fill up the recessed cavity? :)

So many questions...

SD have a host of features that have made it a more preferred format over MMC. SD has the edge of MMC in terms of speed. It also features a write protection switch, which for the consumer, has its ups and downs, but FWIW, if you don't use it, ignore it. ;) SD cards are said to be more durable and electrostatic resistant than MMC. The other feature is the cryptographic security which helps with copyright protection. Companies would obviously prefer a format which has better copyright protection, which is probably another reason why adoption of SD has been more widespread than MMC, even though a lot of devices using them tend to be universally compatible with both formats. Anyway, the surge in demand of SD has led to a drop in prices, and SD is now the cheaper of the two formats.
Thanks for the info, but isn't it true that the latest MMC specifications are just as competitive speed-wise (and capacity-wise) as the latest SD cards? I seem to recall reading the MMC 4.0 specs awhile back and it provides the specs (in terms of available clock rates, bus widths, etc) to make really fast cards as well, if I'm not mistaken...

[Darius Wey]

USB mass storage is the best possible solution precisely because of the joke 242-in-1 reader problem: You don't need a reader at all! All we need is for future PDA's to have a USB host port and we're done!

We'll be sitting ducks once USB gets phased out in that situation. ;) Funnily, the next iteration of the USB technology is Wireless USB itself. How..."great". Strap yourselves in for another wireless world.

[Darius Wey]

Thanks for the info, but isn't it true that the latest MMC specifications are just as competitive speed-wise (and capacity-wise) as the latest SD cards? I seem to recall reading the MMC 4.0 specs awhile back and it provides the specs (in terms of available clock rates, bus widths, etc) to make really fast cards as well, if I'm not mistaken...

Perhaps, but supply-wise, SD is in abundance while MMC is not - especially once you hit the high-end of the storage scale. So SD is ultimately cheaper for the consumer. This is just my opinion, but MMC will slowly die off in preference for SD (trends now are already suggesting that). Now I know phone manufacturers still use the MMC format, but what does MMC offer that SD doesn't? (Besides an extra letter :P)

[dlangton]

Thanks for the info, but isn't it true that the latest MMC specifications are just as competitive speed-wise (and capacity-wise) as the latest SD cards? I seem to recall reading the MMC 4.0 specs awhile back and it provides the specs (in terms of available clock rates, bus widths, etc) to make really fast cards as well, if I'm not mistaken...

The fastest MMC cards available now are 13x, as opposed to about 40x (correct me if I'm wrong) for SD - SD is 3x faster. I'm not sure PDA's can use those speeds. As far as pricing, the best deals for MMC run about 3-5 dollars more than SD for the higher capacity cards (I just checked Newegg). Both formats top out at 1GB capacity, AFAIK. The higher capacity MMC cards are readily available - at least I have no trouble finding them. I have no idea what the volume of MMC cards might be, but the availability has grown rapidly in the past few months. About the only added feature SD has is the write protect tab, which is about as useful on a PDA as sunglasses on a blind dog. My biggest gripe about SD is that I really question the reliability, compared to MMC and especially CF. There are numerous threads about the problems encountered with SD data corruption, inability to format, and total loss of cards. There's even a site dealing exclusively with SD problems.

[dlangton]

Here's a few links to SD problems.

http://sdprob.aximsite.com/

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2889

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=92570&amp;perpage=10&amp;pagenumber=1

[beq]

The fastest MMC cards available now are 13x, as opposed to about 40x (correct me if I'm wrong) for SD - SD is 3x faster.
I seem to recall some companies like Pretec earlier this year had announced MMC 4.0 cards that utilize the higher-end options for clock-rate &amp; bus-width. Here's one example:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0405/04053101pretecmmc4.asp (supposedly fastest in the world, faster than SD by far)

There might be more news on such developments from MMCA's website:
http://www.mmca.org/news/news.html (including developments of "secure" versions of MMC, etc)

My point was that in terms of the specs of the standards, MMC seems just as competitive (if not more so) than SD? Coupled with no licensing fees...

This is theoretical discussion on my part, mind you, I'm happily using SD-only cards myself :)