ereader.com?

[disconnected]

I know they were bought out or reorganized or something, and relocated from Boston to North Carolina?, but after the initial site redesign, things seem to be getting stale.

In the past, they've always been responsive, and I'd seen posts and interviews on PPC sites from at least one person that worked there talking about plans for the site and app, but nothing lately. The contact page on ereader.com is still there where you can submit questions, but my last couple have gone unanswered. I kind of miss the feeling of having real people instead of a faceless website.

Today I got the weekly newsletter, with last week's discount code (expiring today).

This all makes me a little nervous, because unlike software, which I expect to become obsolete, I'd like to think my ebooks are a more permanent investment. I hate to think that just because an ebook-seller goes out of business my books might become unreadable on future operating systems. It's a good reason to have some sort of ebook format standards (even if they have to include some not-too-awful DRM).

[PR.]

I had no problems with them

I sent them an email a couple of months ago sugesting that the Bookshelf section in eReader Pro allow you to put your books in Subfolders for series Books, and allow better organisation

I got a reply thanking me for my suggestion and that it was already being worked on for a new version of eReader Pro.

I doubt they are going out of business they must be one of the largest ebook sellers.

[Jorgen]

This all makes me a little nervous, because unlike software, which I expect to become obsolete, I'd like to think my ebooks are a more permanent investment. I hate to think that just because an ebook-seller goes out of business my books might become unreadable on future operating systems. It's a good reason to have some sort of ebook format standards (even if they have to include some not-too-awful DRM).

If there is any sort of DRM, there is a great risk for losing access to *your* books - the books are encrypted with your credit card number. The same applies if you change to a non-Palm or non-PPC: Sharp are beginning to make nice machines, the Symbian operating system may become interesting again. Or you may want to read books on your iPod or whatever.

Buy multiformat books from Fictionwise. Otherwise, you cannot be sure to be able to read your books in 10-20 years.

Jorgen

[Ommadawn]

That's what I do. I get the news letters from ereader.com, but do all my purchasing at fictionwise...

[Jorgen]

That's what I do. I get the news letters from ereader.com, but do all my purchasing at fictionwise

It would be nice if you could, but the eReader books you buy at Fictionwise are identical to those from eReader.

Sometimes one desparately wants a particular book, in which case one has to buy it in whatever awful format it comes in. If you buy a book with DRM, just know and accept that you may one day not be able to read it.

Or - as I suggested - take a look at the multiformat books and see if there is something you like.

Jorgen

[Ommadawn]

Ah, but most books in ereader format are available in other secure formats on Fictionwise.... some people could use utilities like convertlit so DRM was no longer an issue...

[Jorgen]

Very true, but not legal in most countries.

Jorgen

[Ommadawn]

Very true, but not legal in most countries.

That's true, and I wasn't advocating anyone break the law, but it's an option for those who want to be able to read the ebooks tjey buy at any time in the future and on any technology that may come about, which is sadly lacking with current DRM formats.

[dMores]

while i feel the same way ("i bought the book and i want to be able to read it again in 10 years"), i just realized i never read books twice.
not my ebooks, not my "real" books, not any kind of book (except maybe a dictionary ;))

so actually, it's only important to have access to the ebook while you're reading it, or if you bought it in advance. for me, anyways.

and the "classics" that "one must have in his/her library" are all available at project gutenberg, since classics are really old :)

[Jorgen]

>i just realized i never read books twice.

I have read my favourite books many, many times: Many of the books (paper-books - your grandfather will probably be able to explain what books on paper are like) by Silverberg, len Deighton, Gibson, Rex Stout, Woodehouse (Jeves / Lord Emsworth), Mark Twain, Edgar Wallace, Morris West, Clarke, Eric Ambler ... (in no special order) Many of these are 20-30 years old (as you may guess, I am ).

Everything is a matter of price. If I pay more than, say, for the arguments sake, $3 for an e-book, I expect to be able to read it again in 20 years time. This said: books by my favourite authors I would not want to "rent" but buy on paper.

I say $3 as you cannot buy e-books secondhand or sell them like you can with paperbacks. Reference books may be more expensive.

Jorgen

[dMores]

...(paper-books - your grandfather will probably be able to explain what books on paper are like)...
i'm old enough to still know what those are, dude!

[Jorgen]

...(paper-books - your grandfather will probably be able to explain what books on paper are like)...
i'm old enough to still know what those are, dude!

Ah, you are an antique dealer or museum director? :)

Joke aside - in five-six years time, readers with e-ink will probably start becoming affordable and we will be busy transferring our ebooks to these (one more argument for DRM-free books!): How many years will it then take before paperback books disappear? Textbooks and many reference books will stay on for at least a while as even I need books on paper for studying (but you will probably get such text of the book on CD).

Jorgen

[dMores]

what are you actually trying to say?

ebooks nay, real books jay?

i'm a big fan of ebooks. i don't care for the "smell and feel" of real books. what good are they when they're not around when i need them? home library, nice thing, but what if you're on vacation in, for example, russia and you finished the books you brought along. go out and buy some more? or rather, go online with your pda/smartphone and get a fresh supply.
sitting in the car while waiting for your girlfriend to come down, oops no paper book along cuz you never planned on waiting. cellphone/pda ... always with you.

anyway, i don't see where this discussion is going, so i'll tune out and maybe someone can get back on topic :)
(i realize i seem to have a tendency to drag things OT. must ... work ... on ... URGH ... that !)

[Jorgen]

Today I mostly read e-books though I have many paper books.

If I were to carry out serious study or research, books and journal articles would have to be on paper (unless I am just reading around a subject).

In the old days, I always had a couple of paper books in my car - just in case. Today, I carry a library on CF / SD card.

Jorgen

[PetiteFlower]

Well if you want to be sure, you can always buy the books on paper and scan them in to create your own ebooks. That way there's no DRM and you know you'll always have them and if the format changes then you can just re-scan :) Legal too!

[dMores]

uh ... that's a lot of work :)
oh, and no need to re-scan, just save the original as RTF and then convert to whatever reader you need.

and to be completely legal you are not allowed to scan the whole thing. need to leave out first and last page, then you're ok.
(that's what i picked up in my "copyright" class)

[Kati Compton]

and to be completely legal you are not allowed to scan the whole thing. need to leave out first and last page, then you're ok.
(that's what i picked up in my "copyright" class)
Why? So that it's an excerpt?

[dMores]

well now you're asking me too much :)

i don't know the reason exactly. but you are allowed to make copies of the work. and since there's no real definition as to how much is an excerp and how much is too much, they say you're allowed to make copies of parts of a book, but not the entire book.
the part with "leave out the first and last pages" was actually said by our perfesser, i didn't find that in a law book. i guess it might be considered a loop-hole.

[Mobile_Bear]

what are you actually trying to say?

ebooks nay, real books jay?

i'm a big fan of ebooks. i don't care for the "smell and feel" of real books. what good are they when they're not around when i need them? home library, nice thing, but what if you're on vacation in, for example, russia and you finished the books you brought along. go out and buy some more? or rather, go online with your pda/smartphone and get a fresh supply.
sitting in the car while waiting for your girlfriend to come down, oops no paper book along cuz you never planned on waiting. cellphone/pda ... always with you.

anyway, i don't see where this discussion is going, so i'll tune out and maybe someone can get back on topic :)

Since the subject initiate on digital formats, I do see you stayed on topic, actually you just touched the issue on why the different eBook formats keeps me for being an avid eBook reader.

There is an obvious practical benefit for carrying several books on your pocket, storaged on your PPC. However, I still prefer the paper version.
And that is because of different formats and DRM.
I do not feel comfortable trying to develop a "Personal Format Strategy" when deciding where to look and buy a book.
I do go back to the books I read quite often; I enjoy giving them away, lending them, trading them. And I would like to keep doing that for the years to come, regardless of the PDA I am using, the OS it uses, the DRM policy in place, and if the store I got my books from is still in business and support the format.

[Ommadawn]

I have a large paper book collection (built up prior to getting my PDA), but since I got my Clie, then Ipaq, I haven't purchased a single paper book. That's about 2 years now...

I'm a regular book re-reader, and read many of my favourites multiple times (usually every couple of years). I'm investing all my book purchasing money in ebooks now, so I want to be able to continue reading them in years to come, whatever the current hardware and software is... current DRM gets in the way of this, unfortunately. The ebook publishing industry needs to address this, I feel, if they really want ebooks to succeed any time soon.

[Squid]

Hello all,

I am a big fan of digital books. Like many already have stated, I appreciate that an entire library of e-books are able to be carried on one device. Like many folks I end up using several different types of viewers to access them all. The old Peanut Press/PalmDigitalMedia/eReader has become my favorite. I have never had any problems with them, and get regular e-mails with the discounts, etc. I am not sure why they would have problems getting them to you...

The other vein of this thread that I have found interesting is the difference in likes between paper books and on a PPC. The thing that I was thinking while reading this is, I prefer my PPC to my laptop. I have the Microsoft Reader on both and use my PPC exclusively. Maybe it has something to do with it being more "book-like" in it's form factor. As others have mentioned, I have not bought a paper book since getting my PPC. I am waiting for magazines and and newspapers to be published in PPC format! I think that it will be a matter of time before the form factor for PPC's change drastically and make it more book-like.

Regards,

Squid

[Jorgen]

Yes, PDA's need paperlike screens: white with good contrast and low power consumption = e-ink. Unfortunately e-ink is is some years away from becoming consumer products = in the shop and cheap. Something looking like this dedicated reader http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2140
and or a PDA with eInk http://cebooks.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_cebooks_archive.html#109246884510496897

Newspapers and mags: Have you tried iSiloX (http://www.isilox.com) with links from http://www.mobileread.com or if you want them readymade, using the AvantGo reader?

Jorgen

[bmurphy]

I realize that I'm late in this discussion, but I wanted to add my take on them.
I have a huge library of my favorite authors, and I have a problem that I usually can't wait for the paper back edition to come out and end up buying the hardcover. I found Baen.com a number of yrs ago, and signed up for the websubscription as soon as it started. It enabled me to get the newest efforts of my favorites (David Weber & company) before the publication date. I still buy the hardcovers... but I don't have to get them as soon. I use MSReader to download them and even with the original MSReader 1. They come out really well. I've never had problems, and have redownloaded as necessary. I also get weekly e-mails from E-Reader (PalmDigital), and the discounts have come through no problem. I have a big download page there, and they keep me updated with PalmReader, soo I have the latest software always. The latest one lets me change the background to different colors and styles depending on the light that I'm reading in. I usually have about 30 books on my casio between the two programs, and really appreciate that I can shop for books at any time of day, and not have to catch a ferry or order and wait weeks for what I want to read.
the only thing I have to worry about is my battery running out ( it's getting into the 4 yrs, and I use it every day).

[allenalb]

i'm a pretty big fan of ebooks, but i don't think there should be any charge for them. the only ones that have any real value are plaintext, since thats the only way you can be sure they will work in the future, and since they are plaintext, and not searchable/indexable/or even have covers, paying for them doesn't seem right.

i think it would be better if ebooks were given away freely with real books, sort of like when you buy a cd from amazon, and you are allowed to instantly download the music while you wait for the cd to ship.

then again, i think real books are the best invention ever. damn internet keeps prying me away from them though...

[j95pgt]

I think that would be cool if you got a copy of your book in ebook for when you bought a paper copy but I disagree with the rest of your statement. If I got books free in ebook format I would not give a writer another penny. I could see maybe renting ebooks for maybe a week and then after that they just quit working on your computer kinda like a library. I know this is a main argument of most people with ebooks, that they should be free becuase library books are free but even that is pushing it becuse librarys have only one or two copies they can loan out. I do see where you are comming from though.

[allenalb]

i don't think they should be free because libraries are free, i think they should be free if you purchase the real paper book. if you don't purchase the paper book, no free ebook :)

i can't comprehend how someone can actually prefer an ebook to a real book. i know all of the arguments (tons of them on one memory card, always handy when you have a little freetime, etc) but can anyone really say that they actually prefer READING ebooks over real books?

again as i mentioned in previous post, i am biased :wink:

[bmurphy]

<
I think they should be free if you purchase the real paper book. if you don't purchase the paper book, no free ebook >

The latest David Weber book (hard cover) came with a CD rom with a lot of preceeding books in e-format. That is from Baen.com. Baen books have really supported the e-format. The author gets far more percentage of the book price from the e-format as apposed to the printed page.

I find that I enjoy the hands free reading that the e-books give me, I also find that waiting for ferries in the winter (dark by 4:30 ish), reading e-books are much more practical than trying to read a paper-back with uncertain light.
I live on an Island, and the bookstores are minimal at best, so I have never managed to find current books that I haven't read (or wanted to read) in these stores. I've really found the freedom to get the latest books offered, (e-book) some months before the paper release date. That frees up money that would have to be spent on hard-cover. I can wait for the paper-back to come out (usually the next year). which also frees up space on my bookshelves as paper-backs don't take up as much room.
But you know that if someone is determined to not like a medium... it is hard to convince them otherwise.
Authors should be able to receive money for their hard work and Ideas, whether it comes from a traditonal source or a new medium. The thing that we need from our favorite authors, is to produce more, faster.... and e-books help in that need.

[disconnected]

Actually, I find that I do prefer reading ebooks to paper books.

It's maybe more pleasurable to pick up and begin reading a hardcopy book..... it usually has a nice cover, and looks very inviting, etc. But after I've gotten a little way into the book, there's a change. With a hardcopy book, I remain conscious of the physical book -- maybe it feels heavy, or the type goes too close to the center spine, making it hard to hold open far enough, maybe I'm trying to eat and read at the same time and need both hands for the book, maybe the light isn't right, etc., etc., etc. With an ebook, on the other hand, once I'm absorbed in the book, I tend to totally lose track of the medium -- sort of like getting the pure essence of the book, with nothing between it and me. I'm not sure that made any sense. :oops:

To return to my complaint at the beginning of this thread -- I miss the feeling that there were actually real people at ereader.com. I've now sent them three different questions over the past several months. I've gotten two of those auto-reply emails that say they will be getting back to me, and one reply (have no idea to which question), saying that they understand that my issue has been resolved, thank you very much? Under the previous management, they were much more helpful.

[Jorgen]

but can anyone really say that they actually prefer READING ebooks over real books?

Novels and the like: yes, I absolutely prefer to read on a PDA! No comparison!

Complicated technical literature: generally no, as I like underlining and scribling in the margin. I anyway at least want to read on a computer screen.

Jorgen

[dMores]

i second jorgen's opinion ... novels or generally pure-text books are just so much easier to read on my smartphone. one-handed reading, reading in low-/no-light situations, reading when you have a few minutes to spare, reading when you have nothing with you except your cellphone and wallet, etc.

but magazines, technical manuals and generally anything where the page layout is important (images, drawings etc) are still best read in non-digital form.

i also don't like to read newspapers in digital format. i dunno, newspapers have to be on paper :)

[lsredford]

Thanks to all for this discussion as it has provided valuable insight to me. I knew formats were a factor, but not to the extent evident in this string. I"m considering dropping one format and adding mobipocket. Presently, we carry MS Reader, Adobe, and Palm. Which would you suggest I drop or do you think that would be a mistake?

Any feedback is much appreciated

L. Scott Redford
Diesel eBooks (http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/)

[Jorgen]

As far as I am concerned: drop Adobe Acrobat.
Reader and Palm formats are must-have formats!

Jorgen

[bmurphy]

I also agree about the formats. I use PalmReader (e-reader), and Mobipocket, and MSReader. Adobe isn't one that I have bothered to use as the others cover all of my needs. I noticed in your website that various books you have sometimes have all three formats and then others only have one. At least with the three formats I have I'm mostly covered.
< Presently, we carry MS Reader, Adobe, and Palm. Which would you suggest I drop or do you think that would be a mistake? >
[/quote]

[lsredford]

Interesting. Yes, I'm probably leaning more to losing Adobe. Only concern I have is a lot of research reports come out in Adobe and it would be a shame to lose that market.

Scott

[bmurphy]

Probably a stupid question, but why only three? My interest is in pure entertainment, so Adobe isn't all that important to me... but if the market is already there, why not have all available?
Barb

[Jorgen]

Only concern I have is a lot of research reports come out in Adobe and it would be a shame to lose that market.

You could have the ebooks in some formats and the reports in Adobe.

I use Acrobat a lot on my PC but hardly ever on my PPC. The problem with Acrobat is that it does not have bookmarks and that the books are formatted for pages. Real ebooks are formatted for the hardware they are read on. Acrobat is made for printing and is excellent for this.

Jorgen

[BarePaw]

Sorry to jump on this thread so late, but I've been gone. I just have to ask if anyone here collects first editions? What will become of those if ebooks take over? I only have a couple myself, as I don't really have the income to start such a hobby, but I was hoping to start a good library in the future. Granted, I don't see print being phased out that quickly, however, it won't be too long before ceratin novels are published for ebook only.

Also, for those who mentioned reading in the dark; I would be careful if I were you. When the surroundings are dark, there is not enough light to keep your pupils constricted. When they dilate, the light from your screen is enough to do damage. Same reason you shouldn't watch TV in the dark.

For those who mentioned Project Gutenberg, I have also downloaded some good classics from this link. It isn't as large a library, but they still have a good collection.
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ebooks/ebooklist.html

[lsredford]

What I really hope for is the "open format" movement to finally get some traction. It would make it easier for everybody. I wouldn't have three different cost structures for the same title (Adobe, Palm, and MS each add their own special fee to every download), publishers/authors could get more of their work in digital format, and the books could be read on any device. And they would be less expensive. For me the more formats, the more the hassle, but I probably would be smart to just suck it up and carry them all until the dust settles on DRM.

Scott
www.diesel-ebooks.com

[Jorgen]

I just have to ask if anyone here collects first editions? What will become of those if ebooks take over?

They will undoubtedly become worth a fortune!

Jorgen

[Jorgen]

What I really hope for is the "open format" movement to finally get some traction.

You expect us all to use one ebook reader only? Hopefully that will never happen. And with the computer power around, why should it? Look at Blackmask, supporting loads of formats.

I think you should consider adding MobiPocket (though not for my sake).

Jorgen

[hpf]

I read eBooks in Mobipocket format on my Nokia smartphone... this is the only correct software for Symbian.

[Jorgen]

I read eBooks in Mobipocket format on my Nokia smartphone... this is the only correct software for Symbian.

That's it! I could not remember why it was a must!

Jorgen

[lsredford]

What I really hope for is the "open format" movement to finally get some traction.

You expect us all to use one ebook reader only? Hopefully that will never happen. And with the computer power around, why should it? Look at Blackmask, supporting loads of formats.

Jorgen

My impression is you are interested in freedom to use reader of your choice. If the format is truly open, you will be able to pick your favorite reader. We all buy our music formatted the same way (CD's), but we use the player of our choice.

Scott
Diesel eBooks

[Jorgen]

If the format is truly open, you will be able to pick your favorite reader.

Nice thought but I won't hold my breath until I see it.

Jorgen