MobileGadgetNews' Pictures and Benchmarks of the iPAQ 6315

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2043&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0' target='_blank'>http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/mod...order=0&thold=0</a><br /><br /></div>Sean, over at MobileGadgetNews, got his hands on the h6315, took some <a href="http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album21&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php">an assortmant of pictures</a>, and <a href="http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2043&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0">ran some benchmarks</a>. The results weren't all that good. :|<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040824-iPAQ6315.gif" /><br /><br />It's worth pointing out that this doesn't merit uselessness. My i700 at 200MHz is <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,20748&start=5">easily slower than it</a> (although it's better at 300MHz), and many people have reported the device is certainly useable at the speed. Additionally, it appears HP made a conscious choice to maximize battery life. That said, if you're a power user needing high-quality video and the like, this unit might not be for you. For those of you who've acquired 6315s, what's your experience?

[manywhere]

Considering that it has got a 168 MHz processor, I'm not that surprised. :roll:

[chunkymonkey75]

Can you overclock the 6300?

[gmiller]

I picked up one over the weekend and it was just too slow. I had an Axim X3i sold on ebay and also a MDA and the MDA seemed faster and more solid than the 6315. Decided to keep a two PDA system. X30 624Mhz here I come.

[surur]

That said, if you're a power user needing high-quality video and the like, this unit might not be for you.

Actually graphics is the one area where it scores well, and for which I believe it has hardware acceleration.

Surur

[Jonathan1]

Hmm at a time like this words can not express how I feel so let me just say.....
:roll: :pukeface: :razzing: :cry: :puppydogeyes:

I'll have to wait til I get home to check but I think my Jornada 568 outpaces this "thing".

[maximum360]

I guess that's one of the reasons I'll be going with the XDA III instead of this one.

The only thing that the HP 6300 has on the XDA III (well the CDMA version that Verizon will carry) is WIFI. I never use WIFI so it's not a biggie for me (though it's always nice to have more options).

The look of it is kinda average with the keyboard ad-on making it look hideous. It's HP so I expect the build to be solid though and have a decent amount of software. Hopefully the screens are not similar to the HP 1935/1945 that cracked easily.

I have my i700 running at 333 MHz (with a PXA250) and it's very stable and works well. I look forward to a newer and faster processor though.

It's a shame that they're compromising on these pda phones. They should be high end in many respects but they look low end compared to some regular pdas.

Hopefully by next year we'll start seeing some converged devices with a VGA screen, fast processor, and even gps. The XDA III already has EvDO so I'd expect that or at least EDGE as well. Maybe next year the XDA IV will be the one to beat.

Built in cameras in the Megapixel range would be nice as well (with flash). That's one thing that the MPX does right that no one can touch right now.

[SeanH]

I still think it is odd that my 4 year old 3600 iPAQ running a SA1110 at 206MHz is faster then the Dell X5 running the next gen PXA250 at 400MHz. I am curios on the differences in power of the TI OMAP CPU used in the HP6315 and a device using a PXA270. The PXA270 will scale voltage with MHz to consume less power. The TI OMAP CPU does not do this. The TI OMAP CPU is a dual core device (ARM and TI DSP C5000 series). That has to consume more power. We need more benchmarks.

Sean

[Paragon]

I hate benchmarks! They are so misleading. The true test of a device is to hold it in my hand and put it through the paces. Next to that is to read reviews by others who have used the device and listen to what they have to say about it. So far I have read very little from folks using one saying it is too slow. It may be too slow for some but I think passing judgment based on benchmarks is a mistake. It is only one of several issues to consider.

Dave

[Dave Conger]

It seems HP put a lot of work into this device, so I hope they didn't "slack" with the processor...which seems to me to be one of the most important parts.

[Janak Parekh]

Actually graphics is the one area where it scores well, and for which I believe it has hardware acceleration.
I meant it more from a high-CPU-utilization codec standpoint, but point noted. ;)

--janak

[danmanmayer]

i have one of these it doesn't play video well but for web browsing and normal PDA use it is fine... it seems to run most games and such better than my XDA, but it seems a little slower on video.

peace

[jpjehu]

I tested a store unit and it seemed noticeably slow. To me, you can't have a true convergence device unless it works reasonably the same in all of the separate functions that were converged. If I couldn't actually use (meaning perform normal tasks WITH normal speed) the PDA part then it's not accomplishing it's primary goal - IMO. The whole concept has drawn me to the idea, though - anyone know with the XDA III is coming out? I'm seriously considering a true all-in-one. Additionally, does anyone know if there will be a unit that has wifi as well? I really would like wifi.

[dangerwit]

Well, after owning one for a few days now... probably the nicest thing is using my BT GPS and getting directions read to me over the BT headset... then a call comes in, and while I'm talking to my caller, the GPS still reads the directions and the caller can't hear 'em...all without any slowdown.

No matter how fast my 2215 can go, it still can't do that.

And, the device has amazing battery life even with wifi and BT turned on. I've used my 6315 for only about 6 calls today, but BT is on and with he power settings used, I've barely dented it (I think I'm still at 90%).

For a cellphone, I need to have uptime, not video games and an insanely fast 3D processor. This phone will probably be a daily driver because it succeeds where business folks need it to -- and it succeeds where the i700 and G1000 did not, in size, reliability, etc.

No worries -- I'm still saving up for a 4700. ;-)

*Phil

[Paul P]

The only issue I have is the sluggish navigation. It's a big issue, but I think I can tolerate it for now. Other than that, some games actually play faster and smoother than on my 5450. For videos coded in wmp9, I don't see any difference from the 5450 as well. Applications take longer to load, but so was the story with the 5450 before rom upgrades. Hopefully some sluggishness can be attributed to that.

[gratefuled]

I have to agree with Paragon, you really should try a device before making rash comments.
I have ben using the 6315 for about 3 days now, and in general there is much to like.
Is it as fast as my MDA II? No, but it is not slow. I'm not a gammer or a video guy, I'm a professional who wants connectivity.
Like a previous fellow posted, the BT is the best I've seen for a PPC-PE. My MDA II, BT profile fix or not, does not hold a candle to this device. GPS is great, while on phone. Listen to any audio. Simple BT Active Sync hookup. My only BT complain may be with my headset, but my Jabra 250 will not place a cal. It will hang up a cal, but not activate one. That seems odd to me.
So far my biggest complaint is the RAM size. I really do not think devices should be coming out with less than 128 MB of RAM. How hard would that have been.
Is my MDA II more powerful? Yes. Does this device provide the most all and one connectivity and BT profile for a PPC-PE? Yes.
I must say I like the feel of the device in my hands, and the hardware seems very solid.
Damn good device, but I still have my eyes on the MDA III, and an even more focused eye on the MPX, provide it has reasonable memory.

Oh yea, by the way. MS Voice Command over Jabra BT250 works great. Totally functional on the headset, but I still have to activate the Voice command by hitting a device hardware button.

[bnycastro]

I tested a store unit and it seemed noticeably slow. To me, you can't have a true convergence device unless it works reasonably the same in all of the separate functions that were converged. If I couldn't actually use (meaning perform normal tasks WITH normal speed) the PDA part then it's not accomplishing it's primary goal - IMO. The whole concept has drawn me to the idea, though - anyone know with the XDA III is coming out? I'm seriously considering a true all-in-one. Additionally, does anyone know if there will be a unit that has wifi as well? I really would like wifi.

Not sure when the MDA/XDA III will be out but I read somewhere that the GSM version will have WiFi and Bluetooth (with Widcomm Soft like iPAQs) Ok found the website here is a link: http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-blue-angel-en.shtml

[SeanH]

Well, after owning one for a few days now... probably the nicest thing is using my BT GPS and getting directions read to me over the BT headset... then a call comes in, and while I'm talking to my caller, the GPS still reads the directions and the caller can't hear 'em...all without any slowdown.
That is so cool. It’s great when new technology works so well together. I use my current serial GPS with Routis 2004 USA that gives great directions but when I get a call I turn the PDA off and turn down the volume on the radio. The day is not to far away where the audio system in the car supports Bluetooth like all the 2004 Acura cars. It would be great if the GPS app on the PDA muted the radio when the GPS app speaks. It could mute the radio when talking to people on the cell while still hearing directions in your ear.

Sean

[Jonathan1]

I have to agree with Paragon, you really should try a device before making rash comments.
I have ben using the 6315 for about 3 days now, and in general there is much to like.


Sounds like an excuse from ..... http://forums.macrumors.com/ :roll:

[I've been eyeing a 17" PowerBook but not with a G4.]



Sorry but all the other cool gee-wiz features and gizmos don't make up for a slow processor be it a 6315 or a 17" PowerBook and while I've yet to play with one a slow CPU is a slow CPU is a slow CPU. And indeed my Pocket PC is faster then this device.
iPaq 6315 = 728.4
Jornada 568 = 915

That IS sad not only is it slower...Its A LOT slower.

[alex_kac]

Slower, but for a reason. Battery Life. I have to agree that for some people that's a deal breaker between using a dedicated phone or a converged device.

For some, its not. We can that its not for Jonathan1. But for others it is.

For myself...I have to say that sometimes I'm tempted to trade my XDA II for a 6350 because of the battery life, but I too feel that the speed would drive me nuts.

I'd LOVE a 624Mhz PPC Phone Edition with VGA. But I'm afraid that I'd have to return it if it only had a battery life of an hour or two on the phone.

I spend a lot of time on my cell phone with both GPRS and voice and so battery life is crucial.

My XDA II on a typical day gets drained half way through the day. TYPICALLY I can charge it easily. But not always.

[Wojo]

It's interesting that everyone is complaining about speed. I've been using these devices for quite some time now and have noticed that the manufacturer's are handling them like PC's. What's loading when you start the device. My MDA was soooo slow until I took out all the crap that loaded when the device started. No one has mentioned what bits T-Mobile has starting up to make the device slow and have they removed them and reset the device to get a good feel for it.

Jonathan1
iPaq 6315 = 728.4
Jornada 568 = 915


You can't compare a Jornada 56x to a phone that has a SIM manager loading along with an active T-mobile notification addin on the Today screen with their battery monitor and quick launch app. Turn that off and the phone, wifi and bluetooth then compare it to the Jornada. Benchmarks like this are like comparing apples to apples... Now what kind of apples are we comparing Red Delicious, Jonathan, Cortland/Redcort, Golden Delicious, McIntosh, Ida Red, Rome, Northern Spy, Empire, Paula Red, Stayman/Winesap, Gala, Jonagold, Fuji, Braeburn, Ginger Gold, Spartan, Honeycrisp, Jonamac and Crispin/Mutsu. Which one do you like? Is there one here that you like to comment on that you haven't tasted? I'm sure the Food Network site will give you some benchmarks on them for you to base your opinion on.

Until you touch it, taste it and see it you really don't know what you have. I like the idea of using a device with a BT headset and BT GPS possibly sitting in front of a Starbucks using WiFi to grab some quick email or send a quick IM to a friend on the other side of the world. For some people this isn't a need as gaming on a PPC is not a need for me.

[DaleReeck]

I hate benchmarks! They are so misleading. The true test of a device is to hold it in my hand and put it through the paces. Next to that is to read reviews by others who have used the device and listen to what they have to say about it. So far I have read very little from folks using one saying it is too slow. It may be too slow for some but I think passing judgment based on benchmarks is a mistake. It is only one of several issues to consider.

Dave

I agree totally. I have had a number of PDA's over the years, most recenty an iPaq 5500, XDA II (the fastest I ever had) and a Toshiba e805. I install all the same software and games across all my PDA's when I get them. I have not found one application that seems slower on the 6300. That's all that matters. You can't fully judge the 6300 (or any PDA) by playing around with it for 10 minutes at CompUSA.

[Paragon]

I have to agree with Paragon, you really should try a device before making rash comments.
I have ben using the 6315 for about 3 days now, and in general there is much to like.


and while I've yet to play with one a slow CPU is a slow CPU is a slow CPU. .

I'm very impressed with your abilities Jonathan. You've never even touched a 6315 and you are able to pass judgment on it. ;)

I think your statement validates my statement that benchmarks are very misleading and if used as a sole means of judging performance...a mistake.

Dave

[SeanH]

I hate benchmarks! They are so misleading. The true test of a device is to hold it in my hand and put it through the paces.
I agree totally.
I think your statement validates my statement that benchmarks are very misleading and if used as a sole means of judging performance...a mistake.
People say they hate benchmarks all the time but benchmarks are a rating of true performance. This is a site that shows how things are rated in this benchmark. http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/indices.html?en
If you use applications that use the CPU a lot like complex math functions you can get a feel on what PDA is faster. If you play games a lot you can get a feel on what PDA has the best graphics performance. Some PDA’s have graphic accelerators. The “SPB Index” is a combination of all the benchmarks to show total PDA performance compared to other products.

It’s a lot like buying a car. When Car and Driver reviews cars they give you specs like average MPG for the highway and city, they the put the car on a dyno and rate HP, they show how the car performs in the ¼ mile, they show how well the car breaks from 60MPH to 0. It helps you make a decision on what car to buy based on your needs. The computer based benchmarks do the same thing.

If someone posts a benchmark of one PPC Phone Edition that had a talk time of 4 hours compared to one that had a talk time of 8 hours would you say that the numbers are misleading?

Sean

[Paladin27]

I have had a 6315 for six days now and I gotta say... it's really great! I have seen these benchmarks and I really have to wonder about the validity of SPB Benchmarks testing theories. I can stream video from my Tivo via wifi, I have played PocketNester games just fine, Age of Empires is fine, streaming mp3's works no problem, and when a call comes in the phone pauses media player to take the call!

I had a 3835, a 3950 and a 5555 before this and I gotta say, it's still faster than my old 3835 and comparable to my 3950 for most things and some things even faster than my 5555, on top of all that it lasts SIX FREAKIN HOURS... SIX per charge. That's with Wifi, Bluetooth turned on and receiving some phone calls. Let's see any of the other PPC's do that? My h5555 could BARELY last two hours with Wifi turned on.

So let's see... speed so I can pretend I have a Gameboy... with a two hour battery life.

-or-

Cell phone with speakerphone and Outlook contacts sync, PIM, internet connectivity (seamless switching between narrowband on road via GPRS and broadband when stationary via Wifi), PAN abilities with Bluetooth, built in digital camera, and oh yeah.... SIX HOUR battery life.


You decide what's important to you. I made my choice.

[Wojo]

If someone posts a benchmark of one PPC Phone Edition that had a talk time of 4 hours compared to one that had a talk time of 8 hours would you say that the numbers are misleading?

Sean

Ahh.. that's if you're comparing PPC Phone devices, but that's not the case here. Actually the only device tha comes close is the T-Mobile MDA and that's running an older OS and doesn't have Wifi or Bluetooth. Now I would be interested in the Benchmarks of the MDA III, iPAQ 6315 and Motorola's MPX.

[SeanH]

Ahh.. that's if you're comparing PPC Phone devices, but that's not the case here.
That was just an example of a generic benchmark. It would be great to see benchmarks of the MDA III, iPAQ 6315 and Motorola's MPX. Some people hate benchmarks I think they help when making a decision from one device to another.

I am also a big fan of the 6315. It has Bluetooth, WiFi, and GPRS how can you go wrong.

Sean

[jpjehu]

Here's one I found that includes a lot of different PPC Phones.

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-blue-angel-en.shtml

I wish I knew how to post just the benchmark index picture itself, but I don't! It's near the end.

[Paragon]

I hate benchmarks! They are so misleading. The true test of a device is to hold it in my hand and put it through the paces.
I agree totally.
I think your statement validates my statement that benchmarks are very misleading and if used as a sole means of judging performance...a mistake.
People say they hate benchmarks all the time but benchmarks are a rating of true performance.

SeanH, benchmarks may be a rating of true performance, but the problem is that judging a device solely on its CPU perfomance is very narrow. There are many other things to consider, such as battery life, screen quality, other feature that may be included to boost performance in some areas, and many other features. The other much larger problem is the scale or ratio of comparison . If you took these benchmarks on their face value the H4150 is twice as fast as the H6315, I somehow don't think that is the case. Their comparative values are very misleading and don't give a true picture of reality.

Dave

[Jonathan1]

I have to agree with Paragon, you really should try a device before making rash comments.
I have ben using the 6315 for about 3 days now, and in general there is much to like.


and while I've yet to play with one a slow CPU is a slow CPU is a slow CPU. .

I'm very impressed with your abilities Jonathan. You've never even touched a 6315 and you are able to pass judgment on it. ;)

I think your statement validates my statement that benchmarks are very misleading and if used as a sole means of judging performance...a mistake.

Dave

A CPU is the heart of any device. I don't need to hold it to know that a system that benchmarks out to well below my 2 year old Jornada is not going to be enough for me. As it is I can barely stand the speed of my Jornada.
Again these benchmarks are perfectly fine in making an initial assessment of a device and in every category of the benchmark, well other then video, they suck. I don't care about perceived speed. If I did I would have picked up a PowerBook a year ago. "Perceived speed" is a way of saying you are willing to compromise. I'm not.

[Paragon]

I have to agree with Paragon, you really should try a device before making rash comments.
I have ben using the 6315 for about 3 days now, and in general there is much to like.


and while I've yet to play with one a slow CPU is a slow CPU is a slow CPU. .

I'm very impressed with your abilities Jonathan. You've never even touched a 6315 and you are able to pass judgment on it. ;)

I think your statement validates my statement that benchmarks are very misleading and if used as a sole means of judging performance...a mistake.

Dave

A CPU is the heart of any device. I don't need to hold it to know that a system that benchmarks out to well below my 2 year old Jornada is not going to be enough for me. As it is I can barely stand the speed of my Jornada.
Again these benchmarks are perfectly fine in making an initial assessment of a device and in every category of the benchmark, well other then video, they suck. I don't care about perceived speed. If I did I would have picked up a PowerBook a year ago. "Perceived speed" is a way of saying you are willing to compromise. I'm not.

I'm curious Jonathan, which would you buy, a "AA" dragster putting out 1000+ horsepower or a Ferrari? The dragster has much more horsepower but only goes in a straight line. The Ferrari has about half the horsepower but goes like Jack the Bear in ALL directions.....and Ferraris draw babes much better than a AA Fueler. :-)

Dave

[Jonathan1]

SeanH, benchmarks may be a rating of true performance, but the problem is that judging a device solely on its CPU perfomance is very narrow. There are many other things to consider, such as battery life, screen quality, other feature that may be included to boost performance in some areas, and many other features.
Dave

But then you are no longer rating a device on its performance but on its features. This thread is about the system performance of the device that is demonstrating to be WELL below the norm on every step of the benchmark, again with the exception of video.
You start throwing in what features it has to make up for its system speed and that smells suspiciously like making an excuse for the device's speed.

What you are talking about is bang for your buck. Are you getting a better overall PDA compared to other PDA phones and such a determination is extremely subjective.

Beyond that the reason there is so much controversy over this, well other then people being insane die hard iPaq fans :roll: , is that CPU, battery, screen, size, wireless features, etc have different priorities to each person. My priorities for a PDA, phone or otherwise, is pretty straightforward:

1. Screen
2. CPU
3. Battery
4. RAM
5. Wireless Features
6. Other Features
7. Included Software

[Jonathan1]

I'm curious Jonathan, which would you buy, a "AA" dragster putting out 1000+ horsepower or a Ferrari? The dragster has much more horsepower but only goes in a straight line. The Ferrari has about half the horsepower but goes like Jack the Bear in ALL directions.....and Ferraris draw babes much better than a AA Fueler. :-)

Dave

I wouldn't buy either. I'd buy a Prius. :p ;)

[SeanH]

SeanH, benchmarks may be a rating of true performance, but the problem is that judging a device solely on its CPU perfomance is very narrow.
Click on the link I posted before. http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/indices.html?en
By no means is only a CPU benchmark. The benchmark posted at the beginning of this topic is the “Spb Benchmark Index” that includes the following.

CPU Index
File System Index
Graphics Index
ActiveSync Index
Platform Index

Is a common list of tasks that people would do using a PDA. Like opening an app, opening a word file, syncing data with the desktop, ect…

Sean

[Paragon]

SeanH, benchmarks may be a rating of true performance, but the problem is that judging a device solely on its CPU perfomance is very narrow.
Click on the link I posted before. http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/indices.html?en
By no means is only a CPU benchmark.

You are right Sean, I souldn't have stated it was rating CPU performance only.

Dave

[jpjehu]

Off subject a bit - I totally agree with you, Johnathon1, but are you really still using a Jornada? 8O That might be crazier than a 2004 device performing worse than one. :D Besides that, you're totally on point for the necessity of reasonable speed for a current device, and on the overall clear perspective a benchmark gives.

[mesposito2]

This thread is about the system performance ...


True, but you know people can't help the trade-off debate. It's natural. I'm reading these threads to answer the same tough question. I agree with you and I want something fast. OTOH, to finally see the functionality that I (think) I need, I can see myself sacrificing some speed to be able to carry one device. Most people don't see trade-offs like this as mere excuses.

The issue for me is how much speed do I have to sacrifice. Looking at the benchmarks, I'm betting they put some extra effort in the video speeds to offset the processor speed limitations. If one of the significant bottlenecks in the older devices is video, maybe they determined they could make the device feel faster by enhancing the video speeds.

Anyway, I'm going to try one out and I'll report my findings here.

Mark

[jpjehu]

The video on the 6315 actually dithers pretty smooth, but the audio is about a second behind, which is roughly the same problem the 5455 had after the 2003 upgrade.

[Kor]

Humm .. can anyone tell me how well DivX encoded video (320x240) runs on the 6315 using BetaPlayer, or Pocket MVP?

my new iPAQ will need be used for video watching purposes a LOT.

Anyone?
:)

Cheers!
-Kor