InfoWorld: "I know laptops, and you, PDA, are no laptop" [Archive]

Janak Parekh

08-03-2004, 04:15 AM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/30/31enterwin_1.html' target='_blank'>http://www.infoworld.com/article/04...enterwin_1.html</a> </div>Oliver Rist goes on a big-time whine about PDAs in his latest InfoWorld column: "Hewlett-Packard just released pre-production versions of its newest line of iPaq's to the usual magazine review outlets, some happy executive noodlehead read them and started drooling, and now this company has decided to move all-in. They call it 'enabling' anyone who does or might travel with the convenience of PDA technology. Well let's take a look at that, shall we? Oh yeah, it's rant time. What's so convenient about PDAs, even the newest ones? I still don't get this. It's another annoying box you have to carry around and make sure not to lose...And 'convenient' simply refers to the fact that you don't have to sit through a laptop's boot time. I know of no executive with any real use for PCs who can go on a trip carrying only a PDA." I guess Mr. Rist hasn't really gotten any good use of his PDA. Not only do I carry a laptop everywhere, but I carry two Pocket PCs, and I use them every single day. Try using your laptop while walking down the street, or while looking up a phone number when talking to someone, or wanting to jot something quick down. Laptops just don't cut it there, and boot-up time is only one variable. That said, I have seen the executive type who just wants a PDA because they think they're supposed to carry one, only to stick it in a drawer and let it gather dust. For those, a smartphone might be enough. But summarily dismissing PDAs as a tool doesn't quite do the handheld justice -- they don't have to replace the laptop to be useful.

Badandy

08-03-2004, 04:29 AM

Let's all send him angry e-mail telling him why he is wrong!

Brad Adrian

08-03-2004, 04:41 AM

DiGiTYZED

08-03-2004, 05:15 AM

Jon Westfall

08-03-2004, 05:26 AM

jkendrick

08-03-2004, 05:29 AM

Try using your laptop while walking down the street, or while looking up a phone number when talking to someone, or wanting to jot something quick down.

I'll take that challenge. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

ctmagnus

08-03-2004, 05:39 AM

Rob Alexander

08-03-2004, 05:48 AM

The problem, in my eyes, is that too many people get caught up in the PDAs-are-supposed-to-replace-notebooks argument. I have never pretended that my Pocket PC can replace my notebook computer.

You're right; that's really the fallacy of his entire argument. In fact, it's tautological. He says...

I know of no executive with any real use for PCs who can go on a trip carrying only a PDA.

Well, yeah! If you have a real use for a PC, then you need a PC. Since a PDA isn't a PC, then by the conditions you set, the PDA must fail to meet your needs. Of course, what never occurs to him is what executives with a real use for a PDA should use. I guess that was just a bit too hard to figure out. What a numnuts!

So, in the end, the real enlightenment he offers is that a PDA is not a laptop. I'm sure glad he clarified that for me, because I hadn't noticed. In the meantime, I'll get on being productive with my PPC and he can get on with not understanding what they are for.

ipaq4ever

08-03-2004, 06:29 AM

The problem, in my eyes, is that too many people get caught up in the PDAs-are-supposed-to-replace-notebooks argument. I have never pretended that my Pocket PC can replace my notebook computer. What I DO contend my Pocket PC replaces are:

calendar
address book
human reminder
mailbox
telephone
alarm clock
MP3 player
Game Boy
Bible
books
newspaper
calculator
sketchpad

...Well, you get my point.

This is a very important point and I totally agree with you. I never thought of my PDA to replace my laptop. In fact, at some certain point of times it can replace it temporary, just like when it saved the day in this story:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=270473&sid=0a5129a9b1c0bf710a010f2e05f4fbcf

I also noticed Info sync world gives Pocket PC reviews below average overall score and ratings. Maybe they want us to understand that it is too difficult for a Pocket PC to have high scores!

jimski

08-03-2004, 06:51 AM

[quote="Janak Parekh"]Oliver Rist goes on a big-time whine about PDAs in his latest InfoWorld column:

"Hewlett-Packard just released ..... I know of no executive with any real use for PCs who can go on a trip carrying only a PDA."

I beg to differ. I am a VP for a mid-sized Display company and I am on my laptop or a desktop about 12-15 hours per day (really). My typical uses include; AutoCAD, PowerPoint, Project, Access, Visio, OneNote, Excel and Word. Hopefullly that qualifies me for really using my laptop. I carry my PPC in my shirt pocket (no case) almost everywhere I go. When I am in the office (or one of our other facilities in North America) but away from the desk my PPC serves as a; meeting note taker, meeting date scheduler, calculator, meeting - task - and note reminder.

With the new regulations at the airport, for day trips and almost all one night trips I leave my indispensible laptop home and rely on my trusty PPC to get me through the day. When traveling, in addition to the above I use it to; read and reply to corporate e-mail (via WiFi or Bluetooth) check flight and weather information, read news clips, look up directions when I get lost, review tasks, make journal entries, listen to MP3's, and on and on. In the past year, two people in my office have dropped their laptops at the airport. One was a total loss and the other, only two weeks old, cost $900 to repair. I really look forward to the days that I don't need to lug my 5.5 lb. laptop around. Don't get me wrong I miss it after a day or so but I can operate effectively without it for a limited period of time.

No, my PPC (or for that matter, any PPC) will never replace my laptop, nor do I expect it to. I see it as an important business tool that serves a specific purpose, to increase my mobility and provide me with a data store of information at my fingertips.

BTW- I have be using a PDA as a part of my daily routine since the Palm Professional days. I have not used a paper planner since early 2000 nor have I used paper (or a laptop) to take meeting notes since 1999.

Please just let me know when the bottom is going to drop out of the PDA market so I can rush out and buy five of my current favorite model along with a few dozen batteries. That should hold me till an early retirement.

Patiently waiting for my 4700. I will believe it when I see it.

Anthony Caruana

08-03-2004, 06:52 AM

I tried to use my PDA as a replacement laptop,. I've got a fold away keyboard that I use with Text Maker. I've got a CF VGA card for presentations. I watch movies on it and listen to music. I did this to see if it was possible for me.

But... it doesn't do these things as well as a laptop. So where am I going wth this? For some people, even though the Pocket PC has lots of compromises, it's good enough for occasional laptop replacement duty.

Would I use it as my only PC - no way. But for some tasks it's good enough. If I'm on a weekend away, I won't take my iBook. I'll take my accesorised Pocket PC. I can listen to some music tap away on whatever article I'm writing at the time, surf the web, etc.

The Pocket PC does offer considerable convenience and not just a quick start up time. If you want to quickly read through recent email or check the movie guide on the web while you're on your way to the theatre, a Pocket PC can do it.

The guy who wrote the article missed the point. Rapid access to data while on the go is the vertical application.

My experience is that you can no less replace a laptop with a PDA as you can replace your car with a bicycle. Sure, both can help you move, but they have different advantages and disadvantages. Neither is better than the other; they're just different.

elehcdn

08-03-2004, 07:07 AM

Obviously, this is a writer who never leaves his desk! I am up and down from my desk all day long. I have a laptop there, but am only at my desk 1/3 of the day. Am I supposed to run back to my desk everytime I need to check my calendar or make a phonecall?

The most important thing that my PDA replaces is all the little sticky notes that I used to have to carry around.

ipaq4ever

08-03-2004, 07:47 AM

They complete each other: The Pocket PC and the Laptop

bcries

08-03-2004, 08:05 AM

Another thing the author of the rant should keep in mind is that not all of us are corporate dudes with big tech budgets. I, for one, am a poor student at the University of Waterloo.

Don't have much money because I'm paying tuition... bought a 386 back in high school, and slowly upgraded it to an Athlon 1.2 Ghz. Old parts still abound, but it is the cheapest way I can run current applications.

I used to own a laptop too... this Pentium 133 that I owned two years ago. It took forever to boot Win98, battery life was like 1.5 hours, and I really just wanted to take notes in class and check email. I got frustrated, sold the laptop to a dude for $200, and used the same money to buy a used Cassiopeia E-125. Now, for the same cost as the laptop, I had a 200 MHz processor and 8 hour battery life - in a smaller package! Now I have an Axim X5 with a foldable keyboard and a Wifi card (we have APs all over campus).

My spending choice is simple: either get a laptop, or build a desktop with the same specs, and use some of the left-over $$$ for a Pocket PC. Between these two choices, I figure the at-home scenario doesn't make much of a difference (laptop or desktop with the same specs? I'd take the desktop; the screen is probably bigger & brighter, the keyboard is full-size, there's more expandability, etc.) So that just leaves the away-from-home scenario. With my X5, I can start typing notes pretty much when the prof starts talking, and keep typing those notes until he or she stops. Not so with the laptop... boot time and battery life make it impractical for use in a full day of classes.

While some might think "this is a Poli-Sci student and not an end-user," think again. I'm also in a digital arts communication specialization, and do frequent raster/vector graphics and video editing. But am I willing to spend over a grand to be able to do this out in the park on the grass for a few hours? No thanks, I'll do that at home with dirt-cheap PC parts. As for on campus, I'll keep doing what I see everybody doing with their laptops - taking notes & checking email. Only I'll start faster, go longer, and spend less money.

porrello

08-03-2004, 08:07 AM

At the beginning there was Palm and Psions, later came pocket pc, I have use them all and they where all good at the time, but times moves on and so should we. Laptops have become tablet pc and now are becoming handtops. Phones are becoming smaller, more powerfull, and are now even replacing cameras.

A handtop will give you the power of Windows XPPro in the palm of your hands. A smatphone will give you instant comunication with your contact list through voice, SMS, MMS, Push to Talk, and even Email. You can take pictures and record voice notes, you can even use small third party applications if you buy a Symbian OS phone. All this without compromising size.

A Handtop+smartphone combination will replace both the laptop and the Pocket Pc. See OQO, Flipstar or even the Flybook and tell me you can not carry those arounds.

To me the perfect combination, for now, is:

Flybook + Nokia 6630 + 40GB IPOD. All these will fit in my A5 size TUMS leather bag, which I need to carry either way. And they all sync perfectly with my Dual 2.5GHz, Power PC G5 at the office. They all are the best at what they do. I do not have time for compromises.

dMores

08-03-2004, 08:30 AM

Stephen Beesley

08-03-2004, 10:12 AM

The only things listed that PPC/Palm can do comfortably for the MAJORITY of users are the calendar, address book, human reminder & calculator functions. Everything else is just a stretch and requires patience.

Well I am quite pleased to see that I do not seem to fit into your definition of the MAJORITY - these are the functions I use my PPC for least. In fact I do not really use it much at all for any of these functions.

On top of that for the first six months I was living in Ireland my Jornada, a stowaway keyboard and a CF modem were not just my laptop replacement but my desktop replacement!

I guess that just goes to show that everybody's usage patterns are different :D

Jonathon Watkins

08-03-2004, 10:27 AM

I'm also in a digital arts communication specialization, and do frequent raster/vector graphics and video editing. But am I willing to spend over a grand to be able to do this out in the park on the grass for a few hours? No thanks, I'll do that at home with dirt-cheap PC parts. As for on campus, I'll keep doing what I see everybody doing with their laptops - taking notes & checking email. Only I'll start faster, go longer, and spend less money.

Welcome Bcries. Nice, thoughtful post there. In the end, as most folk here are saying is that PDAs and laptops have their uses and roles. Which you use most depends on what you do and how you do it. <shrug> Fancy that eh? :wink:

Personally I like carrying my PDA just about everywhere and don't need the extra functionality of a laptop. However, it's obvious that the author of this article is just out to get a reaction. One man's meat..........

Chucky

08-03-2004, 10:39 AM

My experience is very similar to Bcries. I am also a poor uni student, however I found it cheaper to buy a second hand iBook than a new PDA (they are actually about the same, however you have to factor in the PDA keyboard). What I am looking for atm is a small basic PDA to use as an MP3 player and basic PDA functions (contacts, calendar, note taking etc), iPaq 1940 would be ideal - but as I said I am a poor uni student. The iBook is fast, small and decent battery life, the only difference is starting time is the extra time is takes to get it out of my bag :D

I hardly see the point of the high end PDA's (4700, A730 etc), the extra uses that devices like that have are as the article pointed out, suited for nothing much except for vertical market applications. But don't get me wrong, if I had the cash I would get myself one as soon as they come out :D

Jonathon Watkins

08-03-2004, 10:47 AM

I hardly see the point of the high end PDA's (4700, A730 etc), ..........But don't get me wrong, if I had the cash I would get myself one as soon as they come out :D

:huh: OK Chucky. :lol:

So, high end PDAs. Pointless but you want one anyway? Suits the manufactures! :wink:

dMores

08-03-2004, 10:55 AM

i sort of realized that a PDA is, for me, basically just a detached outlook device. the only extra things i do with them is read ebooks.
so even though i won 2 pocketpcs right here on PPCT, i reverted back to my p900 smartphone since it does all those basics i need. even the occasional email and webbrowsing is possible, which is simpler with an all-in-one device.
i'm not in uni anymore, but if i were, i'd probably try and afford a laptop since i could write along in class, and pretty much have all my work, assignements and class notes with me. when i drive home to visit my parents, i can just set up camp in the garden and write essays etc. which is pretty much not possible on a pda. of course i could write the basic text on it, then transfer to a pc and format to fit the "design"-needs of my perfesser. but it's just too small for me.
it also depends on the type of studies you do. some require more writing-along than others.

on the other hand, having a calendar and adress book with me all the time that's always up-to-date is also very important. i actually don't know what i'd to if i had like 1000 to spend and needed to decide between a laptop and a pda. i know one thing for certain, i'd never go back to 2 devices (cellphone and pda), i have switched camps and enjoy myself in the all-in-one arena.

i actually started this post to maybe offer some decision-making help to others, but i realized it's not possible. all i know is that pdas and laptops are not alternatives, really. they're a symbiotic pair that work best when used together.

(in case you're wondering what i did with 2 pdas:
one was for my girlfriend [xdaII] from the start, the second [ipaq 4315] i gave to my brother as a b-day present. he's at university, and he's thrilled. he's finally able to organize his schedule, keep track of all his contacts and even read the occasional ebook. oh, and since his uni has wireless LAN, he's able to survive even the most boring of classes :))

DanielTS

08-03-2004, 11:05 AM

My experience is that you can no less replace a laptop with a PDA as you can replace your car with a bicycle. Sure, both can help you move, but they have different advantages and disadvantages. Neither is better than the other; they're just different.
+1 :D

aliensub

08-03-2004, 12:02 PM

actually, every macintosh powerbook and ibook has a "sleep" mode. just close the lid and it goes to sleep. open the lid, and it comes back in a fraction of a second. no "restoring system status" thingie like with windows, where it loads ram data back from a temporary storage file on the hard drive.
:)

Just to correct you. Windows does also have this feature, it´s called Standby. Mine takes appr. 1 sec. to restore. The one you´re reffering to is called hibernating. The difference is that standby keeps power on the ram, while hibernating stores the ram on the HD.

dMores

08-03-2004, 12:20 PM

aha. ok. maybe the 3 XP laptops i have in my vicinity (kolleagues' and girlfriend's) aren't set up properly, because they take 10-15 seconds to wake up from hibernation.

yes, sleep mode is the power-consuming one.

thanks, will look into sleep mode for gf's laptop, she complains about the boot time :)

shawnc

08-03-2004, 12:22 PM

please, lets be real. it DOES NOT perform more than half those things half as well as the standalone counterpart (i.e. - MP3 player/iPod, sketchpad/pencil & pad, console emulator/GBA)

Well of COURSE it doesn't perform those functions as well as a dedicated unit. But it does perform them well enough for the overwhelming majority of the PPC users. And that's the beauty of the PPC, it's versatility.

Brad, you hit the nail right on the head. I know, because I made the same mistake with my Axim. Thought the dual slots, and an external keyboard would turn it into a laptop replacement. It didn't and never will, unless your laptop needs are really really basic.

felixdd

08-03-2004, 01:31 PM

Only it fits in your pocket, so it's exactly what you will lose
I love this...it's like he's grasping at straws so early in his article, as if he's already run out of points to talk about. What about phones, keys, or even something as mundane as a cigarette lighter?! They're all too small and fit in your pocket -- lets integrate them into the laptop so you won't lose it!

It doesn't hold anything new, but only provides a more convenient way of accessing information already contained on your laptop.... A PDA just means he or she can leave it in the hotel or at his or her temporary desk at the branch office instead of carrying it around.
And that's not useful because....? :?

Meanwhile, can a PDA really take the place of laptop? Not in my world. Can you run Visio or a sexy PowerPoint off your PDA? Can you open a 5MB Excel workbook loaded with macros and formulas and do some real work instead of simply gouging your eyes out at the small screen space? Nope, nope, and just a little more nope. You need a mobile PC for these sorts of tasks, and PDAs aren't it. So to increase sales, PDA makers are tacking on anything small and easy to make the little kumquats more appealing. But how good or even useful are these new features?

Lets rewrite that in a PDA-oriented view:

Meanwhile, can a laptop really take the place of a PPC? Not in my world. Can you walk down the street and run a sexy WiFi scanner on your laptop? Can you open an ebook or acrobat loaded with critical documents to do some real work, instead of juggling the laptop and trying to find space to stand in the subway? Nope, nope, and just a little more nope. You need a more mobile device for these sort of tasks, and laptops aren't it. So to increase sales laptop makers are tacking on anything small and easy to make the little kumquats more appealing. But how good or even useful are these new features? (Read: Sony U50/70)

Someone should transpose his entire article and name it, "I know PDAs, and you, laptop, are no PDA" :mrgreen:. Or someone should email the guy and point him to this thread. He needs to be edumacated :lol:

yankeejeep

08-03-2004, 01:44 PM

As several people have mentioned, there is little sense comparing a PPC to a laptop. Kind of like the ridiculous exercise of comparing a laptop to a desktop 15 years ago. But technology tends to mature and devices tend to grow to maiximize their potential.

I would not want to try to indefinitely replace my notebook with my PPC as there are many tasks the PPC simply cannot manage, at least in this stage of its development. What I find to be true, though, is that trips I can manage with the PPC alone are becoming longer. I have a Toshiba e805 and find that I can be away from my notebook for several days most of the time. PPC software is becoming more capable of allowing me to maintain routine tasks. PlanMaker and TextMaker are very acceptable substitutes for Excel and Word. NetFront browser allows me to access most sites I require. SprintDB lets me take along critical Access data and even synchronize changes when I return to my desk. Landscape mode display and an IR keyboard make text and data entry an almost painless process. And I can connect wirelessly for email. I can listen to music on the plane or train and have several books along for the ride as well. Using ClearVue apps, I can review and print most files sent to me for comment, including PDF, which is my company's preferred cross-platform format.

I used to take a 12-pound briefcase on every trip holding notebook and needed accessories. Most of the time now it's a 3 pound guide bag or a little extra space taken up in my regular briefcase.

People use PPC's for what suits them. No multi-function device ever performs as well as the several dedicated devices it replaces. There are always trade-offs. People have to decide if the trade-offs are acceptable to them. For me, the convenience of packing one light, compact device and a few accessories is a very important consideration. This Toshiba does, in fact, often function as a laptop substitute for me and fills my needs quite well much of the time. There are still times when my laptop must travel with me, but it is more often sitting on the desk waiting for me to return. It is typically my work-completion machine where my PPC is becoming more and more my work-initiating machine.

Like every other technology, the PPC suits some and doesn't suit others. That doesn't make it either a panacea or a lost cause. That makes it a typical tool. Use it or use something else; it's your choice. For me, the PPC platform has been a very productive choice and has grown far beyond being a PDA.

Felix Torres

08-03-2004, 01:52 PM

Uh, have you folks considered *where* the column originated?
Infoworld, like Computerworld, Information Week, eWeek, and to a lesser degree CNET/ZDNET are all IT-centric publications run by IT/Datacenter types who, as a rule, *don't like computers*.
Of *any* kind.
Of course, the author sees no value in PDAs, he lives in the fabled glass house!
Just consider his opening sentence: he was setting up an assessment for a corporation and he was telling them it would cost $13,000 to properly support and integrate a handful of PDAs.
Stop and think about that.
Thousands of dollars per PDA.

Typical of centralized IT-thinking, though.

After all, *standards* come before productivity and one size fits all.
By their standards, PDAs are a failure *precisely* because they are PDAs.
They dont run x86 cpus, they can't be remotely-managed, they don't have standard screens or keyboards, and, above all; you can't touch-type on them!

As for those advocating the palm-top XP boxes? Think again.
IT will also disallow them.
Just as they disallow full-size Tablet PCs.
For the same reasons; screen size, keyboard, non-standard OS-image, applications...

To these folks, *any* PC mutation means more work for *them*; a palmtop or table PC is another standard image configuration that needs supporting. Another hardware configuration to be maintain.
It is, in most cases, a *doubling* of their "already unbearable" workload.
They *might* condescend to maintaining *two* standard configurations--one for desktops and one for laptops--but they won't like it. Three? Four? "Get thee from here, satan!"

Going back to the original scenario:
This corporate executive found a potentially useful tool for his day to day productivity and was willing to invest a couple thousand dollars to equip his staff with them.
So how does the IT crew react?
"Yes, boss; we'll help you be more productive."?
Nope.
They throw a hissy fit.
How dare that technical illiterate pick out his own tools!
How dare he thell them what they should support or not?
They are the lords of computing!
They specify what gets used and how.
They are the tail that wags the dog.
So, what do they do?
They present a business case that inflates the cost of the PDA to the cost of a laptop and then make the non-sequitur argument that if it costs as much as a laptop it should do what a laptop does.
Since a PDA is no laptop, it can't do what a laptop does the way the laptop does it; ergo, it is a failure and the executive who wanted the PDA is an idiot.
Yell loud enough and most managers won't even catch on to the strawman gambit they're being presented with; they'll be too dazzled by the smoke and mirrors.

Simple reality: PDAs are end-user devices; they make the life of the end-user easier and they make the end-user more productive. The same is true for TabletPCs and sub-notebooks and the Palmtop PCs.
But to IT they mean more diversity; more work.
So, of course, they hate them!
No, duh!

Now, if that nameless exec has any brains, he'll take the columnist's, report, nod, say "Thank you." And toss the report into the circular file.
And then he'll have one of his AA's buy a couple of books and training videos on how to set-up and manage PDAs and go merrily on his own way.

Every time you hear IT folks whining about out-sourcing, bear in mind that the only reason an in-house operation *can* be outsourced is when it has so standardized and simplified its corporate support to the level where an outsider can walk in, with no knowledge of the day-to-day business of the company, and provide the exact same generic services.
In other words; they have taken the added-value out of their jobs.
They have put *themselves* out of business.
That is IT-think for you.

Things have to be taken within context, guys.
And IT types just don't like complexity.
They don't care about end-user productivity.
And they don't care about saving money.
They do care about *their* workload.
Because what they do is *difficult* and it's *important*.
What some stupid executive who signs their paycheck does is both easy and trivial.
So, if he needs to take some meeting notes, let him bring out the corporate standard 9 pound laptop running Win2K (XP is still in beta-testing, don't you know?) and type it in.
How dare he suggest he can identify a useful tool on his own!

What?
Oh, yes; I've been there, done that.
Now I know better.
I no longer go to central IT. ;-)

Ken Mattern

08-03-2004, 02:16 PM

...What I DO contend my Pocket PC replaces are:

calendar
address book
human reminder
mailbox
....

please, lets be real. it DOES NOT perform more than half those things half as well as the standalone counterpart (i.e. - MP3 player/iPod, sketchpad/pencil & pad, console emulator/GBA)

Perhaps the term PDA or Pocket PC should be changed to Pocket GPC; General Purpose Computer.

I know a guy who is still using a Jornada 568 with a camera and keyboard. that's all he carries on the road. He actually works with the production and fielding branch of the Black Hawk helicopter Program Management Office. He hated his laptop and when he saw my Jornada a couple of years ago he went out and bought one because his boss would not. He has replaced his notebook with his PDA. I'm not even sure he even has a notebook any more.

Now if I could only get his boss to contract me for some custom code :)

Jonathan1

08-03-2004, 02:21 PM

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a thousand…OK maybe just 50 times. A PDA will NEVER take the place of a laptop.
1. The screen is too small.
2. The device doesn’t run standard Windows applications. (I still get people who come to me and ask how they install their copy of X windows software on the Pocket PC after they purchase it. The PC part gets the average user somewhat confused.
3. You need to carry around at minimum a keyboard to get any real work done. But in reality you should be carrying around a Mouse (If it works.), keyboard, and a spare battery and possibly a power block.
PDA’s are wonderful things. They are NOT. Repeat NOT laptop replacements unless you are some uber geek willing to settle for such above limitations. I can tell you that the majority of the work world will not settle for such limitations.

Now take the above items and flip them. A laptop isn’t a good substitute for a PDA because.
1. The screen is too big.
2. The programs are too bloated.
3. The device overall is too large to carry around easily. (Try whipping out your tablet PC or subnotebook next time you are at the grocery store to mark down the costs you just incurred and see how pissed off the people behind you get.)
4. In the real world instant on is a necessity not an option with PDA’s. PDA’s were never intended to be used long term. Turn on, check an appointment, jot a note, maybe play a game, turn off. Yes obviously there are exceptions to this. There are power users in the audience who spend hours browsing the net on their PDA but I’m talking for the majority of the users out there. They are devices designed around an on the go world to be used day to day throughout one’s life. Laptops on the other hand were designed to be turned on to do work. Laptops had suspend mode slapped on them because it makes the device easier to start up. But even then most resume from suspend mode laptops, even the latest and greatest take at minimum 1-2 seconds to start up with longer times the older the devices get. A good resume on a laptop is a godsend but its man function is to be faster then simply cold booting a laptop. Once up a user on a laptop is, generally, there for a while. Instant on and instant off are after thought addons to the laptop. They work but not nearly as well as a PDA and that’s because they were never intended to function like a PDA.

I could go into a similar comparison to a laptop vs. a desktops. A debate that has all but died over the years. Why has it died? Because people now understand that laptops have their places as do desktops. People have yet to get that PDA’s have their places as does the laptop. A fact that is completely missed by Mr. Rist.

I personally would never give up my Pocket PC, nor would I give up my laptop. Trying to have one device take the place of the other is like putting a round peg in a triangle hole and vis versa. These devices compliment each other in their capabilities not compete. Only the fanatical fans of each device make it out to be a competition. In the end I do believe that the PDA will die. OK maybe die is too strong of a word. More like transform into a hybrid device that runs an OS more like its desktop brethren then the Pocket PC OS. The OQO is the first step in this change but when it comes out it will still be too bulky, chunky, and slow for many. (Again the OQO is trying to slap a laptop into the PDA segment and while many will bite many others who use a PDA will not if for no other reason then the price. More will follow in the next few years and we will probably see a new term coined for whatever the industry standardizes on. (Palmtop anyone?) I think the reason why the PDA have been an unstable industry the last couple of years is because its in flux. It’s changing into something and that dust from the construction has yet to settle and it probably won’t for at least another few years until MS gets its head out of its butt and really updates the OS. Right now the OS is what’s holding back new and innovative hardware designs. It lacks a number of functionality aspects that its *top kin have. When the dust does settle we are going to have devices that fit in out pockets that are instant on that run Windows Longhorn embedded or whatever the next slimmed down version of Windows MS releases is.

Jonathan1

08-03-2004, 02:41 PM

Every time you hear IT folks whining about out-sourcing, bear in mind that the only reason an in-house operation *can* be outsourced is when it has so standardized and simplified its corporate support to the level where an outsider can walk in, with no knowledge of the day-to-day business of the company, and provide the exact same generic services.
In other words; they have taken the added-value out of their jobs.
They have put *themselves* out of business.
That is IT-think for you.

Felix,

No offense dude but you don’t know what the heck you are talking about. You obviously don’t have an IT background. You obviously don’t have a history dealing with IT. And you obviously don’t do IT for a living.
I could pick apart your entire post line by line as to why you are dead wrong. How your thinking on IT is flawed. But I will make it as easy as this: IT’s one and only goal is to put chaos into order. Period. We do this by streamlining and implementing technologies and ideas but not in some willy nilly fashion. My boss once said our job is to make ourselves unemployed by making everything so streamlined and easy that one person can do everything. Now take your PDA idea and shove it into a well functioning environment that uses SMS, RIS or ghost, remote control for helpdesk and a host of other technologies and breaks that streamlined environment because some exec thought wow wouldn’t this be cool. We all like cool. But cool means not more work but also more people which means more salaries, more pensions, more benefits, more research on how to implement this into the environment, more more more. Felix you just don’t get it whch is why you have people dedicated to IT and how to manage an IT environment.

Duncan

08-03-2004, 02:42 PM

...What I DO contend my Pocket PC replaces are:

calendar
address book
human reminder
mailbox
telephone
alarm clock
MP3 player
Game Boy
Bible
books
newspaper
calculator
sketchpad

...Well, you get my point.

please, lets be real. it DOES NOT perform more than half those things half as well as the standalone counterpart (i.e. - MP3 player/iPod, sketchpad/pencil & pad, console emulator/GBA).

My Pocket PC is a far superior reference source and Bible (with Lextionary, Wikipedia and Laridian) than any equivalent paper version. Some what easier to carry as well.

I get the best of four broadsheet newspapers daily - along with numerous other daily sources of news and comment - without the irritation of holding an actual newspaper.

Diary, task and contact functions are far better on a PDA - paper diary takes to long, doesn't display stuff as clearly, can't allow for linking.

E-mail is instant.

You pick on three things for whcih there are better standalone items - but the point is, we can go one box without great loss. 1GB of music, Age of Empires and my choice of shoot-em-ups and a superb sketch/note pad (I *never* have to settle for scrawling on easily lost backs of envelopes, with pens rescued from under the sofa/desk).

The thing is - daily I can go without carrying:

Dictionary
Encyclopedia
Bible
Diary
Gameboy
MP3 player
Notepad
Newspaper
Magazine
Reading book
Clock watch
etc.

A laptop cannot as *easily*, efficiently and usefully replace all of those - no matter how small (and my main PC is a Fujitsu P5020 laptop - pretty damn small).

I'll go further though - my PPC replaces my laptop for much of my day-to-day spreadsheet, database and word processing needs. I see no need to carry a lptop simply to write lesson plans, design worksheets, produce reports etc. - and I can do so while standing in a corridor, sitting at a desk, travelling on bus or train. The laptop is nowhere near as flexible.

My PPC is also what I exclusively use to run presentations.

Makes for a great remote control too...

In short - I have yet to see ANY reason to carry my laptop out of the house. What can it *possibly* do that my PPC cannot do more efficiently and/or flexibly?

Felix Torres

08-03-2004, 03:08 PM

Felix,

No offense dude but you don’t know what the heck you are talking about.

No offense taken.
Or meant.
And if you live in a kinder, gentler IT department, I'm happy for your end-users.
But...

In my day job I *live* at the intersection of line-of-business and IT.
I *do* deal with the kind of It people who write that column.
Actual quote: "The worst thing we ever did was rename our Division Computer Services Division because now the damned users expect service."
I've suffered through steering commitees, process reengineering drills, requirements definitions commitees, and all the standard rigmarole of a bureaucratic IT department whose response to senior management on being confronted an under-running budget was "Don't worry, we'll find ways to spend the extra money."

So, if your experience is different, then hooray for you.

But *my* real-world experience maps directly to the tone of the column.
(Why else would I bring the subject up?)

So, sorry "dude", I know whereof I speak cause I live in that reality.
And boy, am *I* sorry to live in it.
It ain't no fun, believe you me. :roll:

dMores

08-03-2004, 03:18 PM

i have to agree with the "bad IT" argument.
i also understand, why they are so reluctant to implement "new" things.

as part of my self-employment, i work for the largest austrian airline. they have a huge IT dept. and they're afraid to touch anything they don't know. when i got my private pocket pc, and i needed to install activesync, i had to get all kinds of people, even my boss, involved so they'd give me local admin rights.
now that pocket-pcs are a common sight, they have obviously had some "training" or whatever, and they can set up activesync, avantgo (needs extra ports opened), exchange server modifications so you can sync on the go, etc.
and yet, every time i call to ask about something, they're stumped why i have local admin rights. "you shouldn't be able to do that, do you have authorization?" etc. is what we go through all the time.

i don't blame them. i'd love to lock every pc i ever install for people so they don't come running to me when they're infected with a virus or a worm or do some bonehead things like enable that anti-porn-security thing in IE or suddenly switch on the accessibility option (which is for blind or visually impaired people). "hey, my garfield mouse pointer is gone".
:)

so actually both sides are correct. IT is strict, and they may be a pain in the a** for people who are somewhat computer-savvy, but they have to protect the entire IT of a company and make sure you can recieve your emails and filter out all those spams you usually get because you subscribe to every newsletter that's available :)

ppcsurfr

08-03-2004, 03:23 PM

I read the article and all I can say is that this guy is kinda lost.

What's so convenient about PDAs, even the newest ones? I still don't get this.

Shame on him being an IT guy... he still doesn't seem to know what a PDA is for... nor does he even know how to secure it...

What do I want out of a PDA? Almost nothing that my current cell phone can't handle. A sync with my Outlook contact database and my Outlook schedule. That's it. I'm happy. I don't need to text message, because it's already a phone! If I want to send you a message, I simply call.

Well, if he doesn't text message... he is once again missing the point of technology or the use for SMS.

For me SMS is just like email... except that it's much shorter and you get it on a mobile phone... so if I use his logic... then I'd say he hates email too and he'd rather call than email someone... I know the logic there is kinda twisted... but that's how SMS is... You can send someone an SMS and not expect an immediate answer. The person can answer the SMS at his/her own time. A phone call is different... a person will have to accept the call to receive the message.

Here is a situation... Mobile phone on silent mode, inside a boardroom. Owner receives SMS that package was delivered to another client, and nothing to worry about. It is reassuring, and unobtrusive. A phone call on the other hand will set everyone off with that annoying ring...

So it seems that this IT guy doesn't even understand the benefits of SMS.

And while PDAs can get e-mails, they can't really store them. Not my inbox, anyway, and that's for sure.

Well, he is talking for himself here... Now isn't he a self-centered person... :devilboy:

I get a lot of email each day and I have set up my Pocket PC to receive headers and the first so and so KB... It beats having to run and check my PC's Inbox... The thing with it is that when a person says you can do your email using a Pocket PC, that person doesn't mean you have to do ALL your email on a Pocket PC.

I just do the ones that are needed... but if I feel like doing all my emal, I can do it in a breeze.

Anyway, I do understand his situation...

Much of that is sensitive and private data that I, the harried IT worker, now need to find a way to protect in case your Prada-wearing booty gets hacked or you simply lose the device.

He doesn't know what to do... :devilboy:

Now... How hard is it again to protect data on a device???

Carlo

crispeto

08-03-2004, 03:37 PM

Check out this thread I started recently at aximsite.com.

http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=46050

Sean Murphy

08-03-2004, 03:45 PM

Here is my response if you care to read, I basically took him on point by point and gave it to him...

http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1941

christak

08-03-2004, 04:13 PM

Nice job Sean...
Regarding the Excel spreadsheet with macros -- doesn't Planmaker do that now on the PocketPC?

8)

ppcsurfr

08-03-2004, 04:15 PM

Here is my response if you care to read, I basically took him on point by point and gave it to him...

http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1941

Cool!

I think I'll publish my own rebuttal to his article... :lol:

Carlo

dean_shan

08-03-2004, 04:27 PM

Now all i have to work on is how to walk down the street and operate the mac with just one hand.
might need to start lifting some weights to prepare ...

That's what I did at school. Operate it while walking the halls. Of course this is with my 12" PowerBook, there's no way I'd do that with a Dell, way to heavy.

ppc_kiwi

08-03-2004, 04:55 PM

Both arguments are valid depending on the job requirements. My take, I don't see the PDA replacing my Laptop. Neither the laptop replacing the PDA. One other thing adding to the confussion is the name of this devices. The name Pocket PC (PPC) suggest to me that it's a small PC hence, could be a replacement. A lot of people relate PPC to their destop PC. Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) is a better name for it coz it does not suggest a PC or a flavor of it. :roll:

felixdd

08-03-2004, 05:20 PM

This entire article was written, edited, and posted wirelessly from a PocketPC, not a laptop. Why? Because I can.

w00t! You go Sean! :D

Ken Mattern

08-03-2004, 07:09 PM

This is from Sean's response, not ppcthoughts

"GPS systems? Nintendo games? Why are these features on devices for corporate users? If a corporate application requires GPS functionality, my experience with PDA-based systems says they're simply not the way to go right now."

GPS is one of the best tools there is for a road warrior, I can use my Bluetooth GPS unit to map a route anywhere, no need to mapquest or written directions, just key in my destination and it will take me there. Field service engineers, on the road sales people, anyone who is on the road can use these tools to find anywhere they are called to and go there. Have you been to Europe recently? For an American, dependant on roads marked North South, East, and West, driving there can be a nightmare but with the use of GPS, getting from town to town is a snap.

Recently I compared Never Lost in my Hertz Rental with version 1.0 of Destinator. Three intersting points:

1. I could have done it with my notebook... but oh the hassle
2. The voices were identical :)
3. Both GPS systems spoke at almost the exact moment with basically the same instructions.

Can you imagine that :?:

P.S. Whoo Hoo for my 100th post (after all these years :roll: )

Ken Mattern

08-03-2004, 07:15 PM

Ken Mattern

08-03-2004, 07:18 PM

P.S. Whoo Hoo for my 100th post (after all these years :roll: )

:( I guess I need a notebook to track the number of postings at ppcthoughts

Nah, I'll just continue to rely on my imperfect biological memory, 'cause I can't implant a GPC in my head :D

Jonathan1

08-03-2004, 07:41 PM

In my day job I *live* at the intersection of line-of-business and IT.
I *do* deal with the kind of It people who write that column.
Actual quote: "The worst thing we ever did was rename our Division Computer Services Division because now the damned users expect service."
I've suffered through steering commitees, process reengineering drills, requirements definitions commitees, and all the standard rigmarole of a bureaucratic IT department whose response to senior management on being confronted an under-running budget was "Don't worry, we'll find ways to spend the extra money."

You may live in that reality but I’m dealing with that reality this month. My company’s IT which includes all of North America is being outsourced, which includes me, because our IT upper management doesn't understand how to deploy, maintain and standardize an environment. Consequently this outsourcer is taking over the reins at the end of Aug. And I can guarantee you that the above description I gave is exactly what they are shooting for and WILL be implementing.
I deal with running an IT shop that has to dick around with changing national IT “standards” from quarter to quarter. No one can get anything done because of the politics of dealing with each BU leader in corp who wants IT their way. So yes I understand fully this field but again the underlining goal of IT is to take a chaotic environment and turn it into an orderly one. You don’t do that by going out to Best Buy and picking up a new PDA and saying HEY! I’m going to use this instead of my laptop! And then come screaming back to the IT shop 3 week later when you want to open a Visio file and can’t. Or need to open up a PDF that wasn’t setup to view correctly on a PDA and comes complaining to me. Or from my side where every computer system has NAV installed on it linked to a parent server to distribute virus defs. So here comes Joe blow with his PDA linked wirelessly to the network copying and pasting virus infected files from his home computer because he doesn’t get it. Or how do I remotely admin such a device? Is there domain authentication built into the device? How about group policies? How about rolling out the latest firmware updates? I can easily do that on a laptop. Show me how on a PDA remotely? Or what about software distribution? Tell me how I roll out lets say 40 copies of a program without doing sneakernet to every system?
I can go on and on with examples of how a strategy needs to be laid out before you implement something.
What was your job title again? Because whatever you do it doesn’t sound like you’ve been in the trenches of IT. It doesn’t sound like you’ve dealt with the headaches that come with dropping even more non-standardized crap into an environment that you are doing your damnedest to clean up. I do the grunt work when it comes to maintaining the office I support and I can tell you right now the LAST thing I need is another variable introduced into this place to make my life more complicated simply because someone thinks it would be “cool”.

Oh and one other thing. Even Microsoft and Bill Gates himself has said that the Pocket PC was designed to be a supplement instead of a replacement. Consequently show me certification courses for the Pocket PC system? Even Microsoft doesn't have them. At least on Windows 2000 XP you can send your IT staff out to get trained. Show me the same for the Pocket PC? Again there are things that the average user doesn't consider which is exactly why there are people that deal in IT.

Jonathan1

08-03-2004, 07:49 PM

Prevost

08-03-2004, 08:58 PM

The problem, in my eyes, is that too many people get caught up in the PDAs-are-supposed-to-replace-notebooks argument. I have never pretended that my Pocket PC can replace my notebook computer. What I DO contend my Pocket PC replaces are:

calendar
address book
human reminder
mailbox
telephone
alarm clock
MP3 player
Game Boy
Bible
books
newspaper
calculator
sketchpad

...Well, you get my point.
And I add, carriying whole architectural, structural, electrical and mechanical plans of a "few" buildings just ready for reviewing in situ where you SURE cannot hold a laptop. A bit more comfortable to use than having them in a laptop or carrying blueprints some good pounds heavy, don't you think???

Also, I frequently write down documents and spreadsheets WHILE standing or walking thru the construction site. Could I do it holding a laptop?

I will even dare to say, in some cases, add a foldable keyboard, proper software, and you sure will make up for a decent laptop replacement to be used WHERE A LAPTOP IS SUPPOSED TO BE USED!!!

Hey, I'm a PDA believer!!! :rock on dude!:

DiGiTYZED

08-03-2004, 09:02 PM

'I'm able to BLAH with my PDA so that works for me'
'My friend is a Black Hawk BLAH and he BLAH and it seems to work for him'

We are not the majority people. We make 5h1t happen with our PDAs. We push it. The other 85% to 90% of the users do not.

The handful of use who can make it happen (10% to 15%) are not going to drive sales of these devices. Please remember this. Even if my numbers are inflated, there's still not enough. Period.

How do I know you say? Because I sold these for a living. And you know what 90 to 95 percent of these buyers were? "It has a address book, right?" or "A MP3 Player too? Cool! How many songs?... Uh nevermind!" or "You don't have one that just organizes?" or "Cool it has color!"

Those people are driving the market. Not us. No matter what super friggin' cool thangs we can do with these gadgets, that won't change.

Also, who is saying a PDA can replace a laptop in the first place? Think about it for a second.... it's us!!! Because we are the only ones who can possibly make that happen. Blame yourselves for hyping that notion... or you can blame advertising and marketing team of these PDA makers. Those are the only two culprits I can think of because not once have I heard a customer say "this can essentially replace my laptop."

SeanH

08-03-2004, 09:22 PM

...And 'convenient' simply refers to the fact that you don't have to sit through a laptop's boot time.
actually, every macintosh powerbook and ibook has a "sleep" mode. just close the lid and it goes to sleep. open the lid, and it comes back in a fraction of a second. no "restoring system status" thingie like with windows, where it loads ram data back from a temporary storage file on the hard drive.

now all i have to work on is how to walk down the street and operate the mac with just one hand.
might need to start lifting some weights to prepare ...

Every Windows based laptop works the same way. I had a IBM T20 with Win 2k that took about 2 seconds to come out of stand by from 2000 - 2004. The replacement IBM T40 laptop with Win XP takes less then a second to be fully operational when you open the lid. It’s ready to use as fast as my PPC.

Sean

CoreyJF

08-03-2004, 10:28 PM

It all depends on what you are using it for. Can my pocketpc do everything that my notebook does, no. But for a lot of people, a notebook could not effectively serve as a desktop replacement either for that matter. Obviously there are many things that a ppc can not handle or handle as efficiently as a full fledge computer, and there is a greater gap between a ppc and notebook then a notebook and a desktop, but it is all a matter of perspective. For a lot of people, it absolutely could meet there short term business travel needs i.e. take notes, word processing, email, scheduling, instant messaging.

Rob Alexander

08-03-2004, 11:47 PM

IT’s one and only goal is to put chaos into order. Period. We do this by streamlining and implementing technologies and ideas but not in some willy nilly fashion. My boss once said our job is to make ourselves unemployed by making everything so streamlined and easy that one person can do everything. Now take your PDA idea and shove it into a well functioning environment that uses SMS, RIS or ghost, remote control for helpdesk and a host of other technologies and breaks that streamlined environment because some exec thought wow wouldn’t this be cool.

And there we have the crux of the IT mentality; that the company exists to provide justification for their services rather than that their services exist to support the company. Does your company sell 'order'? Of coure not; your company sells something else (services, products, education, etc.). So your IT goal takes no account of how what you do actually affects the real goal of your employer. All too often, IT people forget that their narrowly-defined goal only exists within the larger perspective of what the company is trying to achieve. Your goal shouldn't be to put chaos into order, it should be to balance order and chaos to support the overall goals of your company.

I notice you belittle some exec thinking 'wow, wouldn't this be cool', but what do you really know about his needs and how these devices might help his people do their jobs? For most IT people, the answer would be 'I know nothing about their jobs and needs, but it would be a big pain in the butt so I'm going to resist doing it, and I'll pretend he's stupid for wanting to, even though he makes 10 times my salary and is the one who must sit in front of the board of directors and account for the company's success or failure.' If it ever occured to you that this might be a legitimate need for his people and that it might make them more productive, and that it might translate to higher earnings for your employer, and that it might mean more job security, higher salaries and more IT people to help with the support tasks, then you'd be one of the exceptional few who ever did so.

So while I may not agree with every single word that Felix said, I'd say that he comes closer to hitting the mark about this writer than you do. Of course, none if this is directed at you personally, but your comments have hit a nerve. People who actually do the activity that is the business of their employer are getting sick and tired of having their own IT people create barriers to achieving the goals of the institution.

Now I'm not suggesting that there be no restrictions on computers in large companies, or that anyone be allowed to install anything they want on their computers, open the network to risk, or things like that. I am suggesting, though, that if the boss sees a need for PPCs to help out the people conducting the business of the company, then it should be IT's role to make it work.

SharpDog

08-04-2004, 04:12 AM

OK, for me, there are five 'killer' apps and everything else is just noise:

1) Web : Most important
2) Phone : Critical but not most used
3) Email : Critical, used more than phone
4) Work : In my case a full-blown IDE, Office for other people
5) Games : 'nuff said

Only a phone can be a good phone. using a PDA with your ear to the screen is moronic (IMHO) that is what Bluetooth is for.

Only a laptop gets it done for me as far as work. I have yet to be able to write programs with a PDA although I would really love to be able to do that productively (key word here is productively) I suspect those who use Office or other business tools have similar opinions.

For everything else a PDA works just fine thank you.

JMHO

Jonathan1

08-04-2004, 07:07 AM

[Yada yada yada complaining about my previous post.]

You want to know why I said what I said?

Money. Period. End of story. If you can’t get the fact that doing new and interesting things costs money to implement correctly then this conversation is over and it’s pointless to go on because you guys just don’t get it. You and Felix seem to miss one critical point when talking about this. My goal. Hell my mandate from the folks above is to save the company money. This is no longer the .COM boom anymore. I was there when money flowed like the Mississippi. When implementing a new tech was as easy as asking for it. Things have changed in the last few years and my mandate beyond simply creating an organized working environment for the user to do their business in is also to be frugal. Heck that is on this little card I have to carry in my wallet with our business goals. Save the company money. The fact isn’t lost on me that I’m the employee and if the business has a desire then by all means I will fulfill it when possible. But do you know how many various PDA like devices we have here? I count at least 18 systems ranging from cell phones to smartphones, to at least a dozen types of PDA’s. I had to stop the madness last fall with picking 4 models of PDA’s and 2 types of cellphones to support because right now last week I sent someone up to fix one of these Sony Erickson smart phones and he didn’t have the faintest clue as to fix the syncing because its just another one off device that people aren’t trained on. I ended up having to stop work on setting up a laptop for a user because of this madness. So you will excuse me if I see first hand how this impacts not only IT support but the business because the user couldn’t get his calendar info to sync with Notes. At the end of the day it’s about money. Chaos into order boils down further into spending the company’s money efficiently and frugally. But when every service call from an employee who has an issue that needs resolving that is time tracked, metricsed, and billed back to the BU and when the execs up above look at IT costs and bitch about it, adding new tech is not an option.
Half of our office is made up of people who could be termed execs. All think this is cool or that would be the greatest to have. And I would be more then happy to accommodate each and everyone’s request. Just give me the money, resources, software, and manpower to do it. And there’s the problem. When you mention money an exec tightens up tighter then a snare drum at the mention of handing over money. And herein is the crossroads of the issue. New tech vs cash flow.
Do you think I would be hanging out at pocketpcthoughts.com if I wasn’t a tech geek? I love new tech. I would love to implement it all over the office but again it comes back to the previous planning issues I mentioned in my previous post and $$$.
Finally let me ask you one quick question. If a user comes to me and says. Can I bring in my home laptop and hook it up to the network because it will make me more productive should I let them? If a user comes to me and asks me to install the CD burner and software that is their hardware in company owned hardware should I let them? If a user brings in their own software from home and says please install this because it will help me at my job should I let them? Now add another 30 to infinite more items to that list and support becomes not a nightmare but impossible. Standardization goes right out the window. Knowing how a desktop will function after a patch from using my ghost image becomes impossible because we’ve lost any type of standard in the office. You claim that I’m not thinking of my employer when I’ve made such statements in the past couple of posts. In fact that’s all I am thinking of. My employer, their money, their time, and their efficiency. Could we make them more efficient with new tech? In all likelihood sure, but only if it’s implemented in the correct fashion.

And I think Jason has prob had enough of the off topic posts so I'm done here. Good discussion at any rate.

felixdd

08-04-2004, 01:23 PM

Brighthand has a response against Rist's laptop vs. PDA article.

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Handhelds_vs_Laptops

Rob Alexander

08-05-2004, 12:07 AM

I'll just add a few final comments.

[Yada yada yada complaining about my previous post.]

I wasn't complaining about your post, I was complaining about the attitude expressed in the article that is the topic of this thread. I responded to you because you seemed to support that attitude. I very clearly indicated that my comments were not directed at you.

But that's all really moot anyway because what you said and what you actually do, seem to be two different things in the end. This author objects to the idea of any PDA... period. That's the attitude I spoke to. Yet here you say...

I had to stop the madness last fall with picking 4 models of PDA’s and 2 types of cellphones to support

So what's wrong with that? Your company has a need for PDAs and you made it happen. That's all I'm saying anyone should do. The author of that article, however, doesn't get that. His complaint is about having any PDAs at all in his organization and I don't agree with that. If you do agree with that (as your post seemed to me to), then I don't agree with you either. I'll be the first to admit to being surprised at seeing you supporting a no-PDA policy given your obvious interest in the technology. Now it doesn't look to me like you do.

I would stop here, but you asked a direct question.

Finally let me ask you one quick question. If a user comes to me and says. Can I bring in my home laptop and hook it up to the network because it will make me more productive should I let them?

If you read my post then I'm not sure why you're asking this. I tried to be very clear that I am not saying there should not be restrictions on corporate computer users. (See the last paragraph.) I am saying that an executive (regardless of how many you have) probably knows more about his work than you do, and if s/he see a need for some technology, then the IT people shouldn't whine and throw a fit, they should look at what it would take to do it, advise the executive of the costs involved and be willing to examine whether the benefits will outweigh the costs.

This nut case from Infoworld doesn't see things that way, and my experience has been that most IT people where I've worked don't see things that way. So I disagree with him... and perhaps you too, though now I'm not sure that your position is as hard-core as you first expressed. Now I've said everything I have to say on the topic, so I'm done too.

Jereboam

08-05-2004, 12:44 AM

in case your Prada-wearing booty gets hacked

Huh? Prada? Vaja, you meant Vaja, moron! ;)

What strikes me most about the article, though, is the holier-than-thou arrogance that comes through with every word.

Hear me, Motorola?

Like that one. Why on earth should Motorola listen to him? Just because he has written a poorly researched article? And did he miss, as Sean pointed out, that Motorola is a little ahead of him?

What an idiot.

J'bm

Eriq Cook

08-06-2004, 03:56 PM

In my consultancy, I always recommend that users carry a laptop and PDA when traveling. They both balance each other out. It is impossible any ther way in my opinion to get by using only one type of device when traveling.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a mobile device the size of a small PDA, but can "unfold" into a full-size notebook PC with a large screen? Of course it's science fiction right now but sure it'll be a reality around 2015.

RobertCF

08-07-2004, 01:58 PM

It amazes me how some people get to positions where they can do an article and there are those who consider their writings to be of any import whatsoever. The author clearly had no clue about either technology, and his limited knowledge only illustrated that. I just laugh every time I see the PDA-vs-Laptop debate heat up. Obviously, there's a place for both. The fact is there is a pyramid of users in the world. At the bottom of the pyramid you have the largest group of users who are lucky to be able to spell LAPTOP or PDA. They'll never get more use out of EITHER than they can just by turning it on and clicking on icons already on the first screen. In the middle, and a sizeably smaller group, are educated users, who can actually go so far as to locate files on their device and even install an application or two. Last, but not least, you have the people who really make full use of either device, they know each one's limitation, and they know what things they can add to each to expand its capability.

My users are happy to drag one of our laptops on their business trips, because it's closes to how their desktop works and I have loaded what needs to be loaded on them to do what they need to do. I, on the other hand, have never ever taken a laptop on a trip. Why? Because, contrary to some of you nay-sayers, I CAN do everything on my PocketPC that I could do with our laptops except one thing: burn CDs. Which is something I feel is useless on a laptop in the first place. I convert things that I might need from CD to a memory card and negate the need for a drive altogether. I have WiFi and a modem, both in CF format, so my connectivity issues disappear. I have my folding keyboard, so I can do some real typing. With the VGA card I can do my presentations, again with no problems. I can keep myself entertained during my trips much easier than I could with a laptop, too.

My point is, my PocketPC easily replaces my laptop in my work, and that the same can virtually be said by anyone who WANTS to have their PDA take the place of the laptop. It wasn't originally designed to, but clearly enough third party components and apps are erasing the line. Ultimately, you have the choice which way to go. There's room in all businesses for both. I treasure the convenience of carrying a LOT less weight and size, not to mention the airport hassle, by using my PDA alone on trips. If I don't need to have most of my add-ons during the actual trip, I can simply pack them in my carry-on or in my checked baggage. You can do what you want with either device if you know enough about the device to do it. It's that simple.