Loox 720 Approved By FCC

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://firstloox.org/forums/printarticle.php?threadid=1599' target='_blank'>http://firstloox.org/forums/printar...p?threadid=1599</a><br /><br /></div><i>"In a further sign that things are progressing fast, the Loox 720 (and 710?) has been approved by the US regulatory body the FCC. This, after Bluetooth qualification (which came in late June), is the final hurdle before it can be released...As the submissions to the FCC are often made by the actual manufacturers (as opposed to the companies that commissioned them), and are usual identified by a code (for the record - the Loox 720 was identified by the code name 'Bali'...!), it has not been certain that this actually was the new Loox until today..."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040723-FCCLoox720.jpg" /><br /><br />Duncan, over at FirstLoox, found the FCC entry for the third upcoming VGA Pocket PC (after the HP hx4700 and the Asus A730), and has collected all of the useful info, plus links to the FCC filing itself, into one post. It's worth a look if you've been tracking this PDA for a while.

[Kati Compton]

You know, I think it's kinda weird that the Loox and the Asus are so close to being the same device in terms of look and capability, and yet there's the small screen-size difference, overall dimension difference, and CIR vs. FIR difference. I guess when I see two devices that are so similar, I expect them to be exactly the same. Random thought.

[Silver5]

Does anyone think that this device kinda looks like the Toshiba E805?

[huangzhinong]

Does anyone think that this device kinda looks like the Toshiba E805?

30% smaller than E805.

[Duncan]

You know, I think it's kinda weird that the Loox and the Asus are so close to being the same device in terms of look and capability, and yet there's the small screen-size difference, overall dimension difference, and CIR vs. FIR difference. I guess when I see two devices that are so similar, I expect them to be exactly the same. Random thought.

Since Asus got a bit anal (and had the FCC take their a730 docs down) I can only say this from memory - the insides of the Loox 720 and the Asus a730 are different. That kind of squashes the - 'they're the same underneath' theory (which I subscribed to myself for a while) - though I agree that it is knid of a surprise that they aren't (especially when the Loox 610 was effectively the same hardware as the Asus a716 and the Fujitsu Loox v70 is effectively a rebadged Asus a730...!)

Does anyone think that this device kinda looks like the Toshiba E805?

That's one that has been said a lot - but the similarity is actually *very* superficial. The shape, colour, size and arrangement of buttons are very different when the two are seen side-by-side. It's the fact that they both use a similar(ish) rectangular button/d-pad arrangement that makes one think of the e800...

[possmann]

Ever since the LOOX dumped the PocketPC phone I've had a hard time thinking that they are going to be anywhere close to bleeding edge again. There doesn't seem to be anything revolutionary about this device - sigh.

And why are they only targeted everyone BUT the US? That kinda sucks.

[Duncan]

There doesn't seem to be anything revolutionary about this device - sigh.

I don't think we are going to see revolutionary in high end Pocket PCs any more. Evolutionary seems to be the watchword from FSC, Asus and HP.

[possmann]

Good point... Still I'd like to see smaller, lighter, longer lasting and well connected... this does not seem to scream any of those. Yes it hase the QVGA - whoopee... I would like to see all of this (save the CF card) in something the size of an HP 1900 series device...

[huangzhinong]

Yes it hase the QVGA - whoopee...

Not easy to talk with newbie. :?

[Holo22]

The Loox 720 appears to have everything except the 624MHz processor - I'm guessing there might not be a lot of difference in real world speed between the 520 and the 624MHz processor - else Fujitsu would have put it in.

What do others think?

(A flip cover would be nice as well - to save the bulk of a case)

[Duncan]

The Loox 720 has the PXA272 processor. The only one of the PXA27x family to reach 624Mhz is the PXA270.

[Holo22]

Hi Duncan

Yes, the 4705 has the 624MHz and the 720 has the 520MHz so the 4705 is 'faster'. The 720 has great specs except for the 'fastest' processor. Perhaps there is not a lot of real world difference - else Fujitsu may have put the 624MHz in(to create the best device possible).

Just my thoughts.

We'll see soon - with reviews.

Steve

[Chucky]

Well I think the PXA27x series are the first processors to have the Wireless MMX technology, if applications actually implement this (very easy as Intel has already released a library of highly optimized routines) then yes there is significant performance to be gained, I would think for a graphics intensive application around 25-30% on top of what is already gained by the higher CPU clock speed.

bugger - I am blind, they are both part of the PXA27x series, haha ignore my ignorance.

Does anyone know if there are any MMX optimized applications yet for the X30? Betaplayer maybe?

[Duncan]

Hi Duncan

Yes, the 4705 has the 624MHz and the 720 has the 520MHz so the 4705 is 'faster'. The 720 has great specs except for the 'fastest' processor. Perhaps there is not a lot of real world difference - else Fujitsu may have put the 624MHz in(to create the best device possible).

Just my thoughts.

We'll see soon - with reviews.

Steve

Yes. My point (very badly made) was that I'm not sure what effect any differences in the PXA270 and 272 might have. For example - if the 272 has a bigger cache than the 270 - what would that mean for practical speed?

[Mark Johnson]

There doesn't seem to be anything revolutionary about this device - sigh.

I don't think we are going to see revolutionary in high end Pocket PCs any more. Evolutionary seems to be the watchword from FSC, Asus and HP.

I'm sorry to be forced to agree. The major leaps seem to be over, but not at all because people are out of ideas of serious usability improvements, more because MS is "satisfied" that they are on track to put Palm into the grave. MS could encourage/allow more innovation on PPC, but then the platform might start to canabalize XP licenses if it starts doing what people use notebooks for. Microsoft has, for all practical puropses, put the PPC into a "holding pattern" for the forseeable future.

Our only hope is Linux PDAs.

[Duncan]

I'm sorry to be forced to agree. The major leaps seem to be over, but not at all because people are out of ideas of serious usability improvements, more because MS is "satisfied" that they are on track to put Palm into the grave. MS could encourage/allow more innovation on PPC, but then the platform might start to canabalize XP licenses if it starts doing what people use notebooks for. Microsoft has, for all practical puropses, put the PPC into a "holding pattern" for the forseeable future.

Our only hope is Linux PDAs.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree strongly. This is nothing to do with MS. This is a case of technology companies wanting to play safe. The PDA market is a difficult one now. Companies will prefer to look at making small steps, preferably ones they have seen made by others, rather than bold and extravagant new features that may backfire and may not appeal. I mean - what revolutionary features can you actually think of that are asked for, achievable, will sell and are worth the gamble?

The Linux card here is poorly played. Why on earth do you think using Linux will encourage better PDAs?

1) Linux PDAs will not sell well. People want the familar - and that means Palm, Symbian and WM. Linux is percieved as a techies OS, less user friendly (and, quite frankly, they are right - only techies ever try to argue the point...!)

2) We've seen Linux PDAs - what did we notice? They were no better spec'ed than those running POS and WM...! Nor, frankly, do they do more (I've spent some 'quality time' with a Zaurus - not something I would recommend to anyone).

Simple fact is - if HP were to say to MS - 'we'd like to do x and y with our next iPAQ' - MS would probably implement it (in as much as it would be possible). The PDA market is increasingly hardware led, rather than software, as the OSes gradually converge.

[ultraman]

Does anyone whether it includes the Intel 2700 Graphic Accelerator?

[boggsml]

I'm am being pulled between waiting for the LOOX720 (BTW, any idea when it will be out or how much it may cost) and ordering an HX4705 (I can get it for $555 through company employee purchase plan).

The things that I don't quite like about the HX4705:

1. NO USB HOST support: but home many USB devices could really be used with a PocketPC that has USB HOST?????? I have not idea?

2. PXA270: This seems to be the low end processor of the PXA27x family. Yes, the processor clocking speed is higher but it is missing some internal goodies when you compare the datasheets on the chips. I also wonder if the larger display and higher clock speeds are going to eat the battery sooner.

Any advice or feedback? I'm struggling between the two PDAs. The USB Host support is the big difference.... but what all would I be able to connect to the LOOX 720 via USB? (ie, would I really miss out on much not having the host ability) Second is the price... if the Loox 720 is going to be like $650-$700, then I'll get teh HX4705 at $555.

Thanks,
-matt

[picard]

Does anyone know if there are any MMX optimized applications yet for the X30? Betaplayer maybe?
BetaPlayer is not optimized yet for WMMX. I don't have a device with the new Intel CPU. I'am not sure the Intel IPP library can be used in a GPL projects and i want to optimize my self. that's the fun part :)

[NewYork Boy]

I’ll be purchasing one of the above devices this October in the US. First choice is the LOOX 720. Not sure if it will be available in the US even though it has just been certified by the FCC. Anybody know? (I know anything can be purchased over the Internet, but I want to walk into a store and physically inspect the device before paying for it and taking it home.)

The specs of the LOOX seem better than the ASUS (e.g., USB host). Not sure if ASUS has USB host or not. Anybody know?

boggsml brought up a valid point: “… what all would I be able to connect to the LOOX 720 via USB? (ie, would I really miss out on much not having the host ability)…?” I’d also love to get some feedback on that question.

The HP seems to be a bit large (around a half-inch longer than the LOOX) and I’m just not sure about that touchpad.

Of course it would be best to see all three in person at the same time, LOL, and have a knowledgeable salesperson correctly answer all questions, LLOL.

Main reasons for this post: find out more info, particularly on the above questions, and to bump this thread and get the LOOX more visible to prospective buyers and reviewers since HP has the limelight now.

Thanks for listening (reading).

[Duncan]

I’ll be purchasing one of the above devices this October in the US. First choice is the LOOX 720. Not sure if it will be available in the US even though it has just been certified by the FCC. Anybody know? (I know anything can be purchased over the Internet, but I want to walk into a store and physically inspect the device before paying for it and taking it home.)

As yet it is uncertain as to whether or not the Loox 720 will be directly available in the US. I've heard it suggested (from good sources) that it will - but nothing concrete enough yet. I have no doubt that, as with previous launches, Expansys and one or two other online retailers will offer the Loox 720. In store is very unlikely though. In fact I would not automatically expect any of the VGA Pocket PCs to hit bricks and mortar stores - here in the UK or in the US - aren't the major retailers moving away from this?

The specs of the LOOX seem better than the ASUS (e.g., USB host). Not sure if ASUS has USB host or not. Anybody know?

Yes - it does. Follow the link in my sig. below to find a comparison of the known specs of all seven models/variations of VGA Pocket PC we now know are coming.

boggsml brought up a valid point: “… what all would I be able to connect to the LOOX 720 via USB? (ie, would I really miss out on much not having the host ability)…?” I’d also love to get some feedback on that question.

In theory - keyboard, mouse (there are drivers written for both), powered hard drive, any of the HD MP3 players that function as 'Mass Storage' devices (there are drivers available and some built-in Windows driver support), USB keys etc. Not (currently anyway) CD-ROMS and not (probably ever) DVD.

The HP seems to be a bit large (around a half-inch longer than the LOOX) and I’m just not sure about that touchpad.

The iPAQ is c. 0.36 (9 mm) inches longer, 0.2 (5 mm) inches wider and 0.01 (0.3 mm) inches shallower - plus 0.42 (11.7 g) ounces heavier - than the Loox (all figures taken from manufacturers specifications).

Of course it would be best to see all three in person at the same time, LOL, and have a knowledgeable salesperson correctly answer all questions, LLOL.

We can but live in hope that one day...!

Main reasons for this post: find out more info, particularly on the above questions, and to bump this thread and get the LOOX more visible to prospective buyers and reviewers since HP has the limelight now.

I'll just plug again the comparison table linked to below :)

One thing that staggers me sometimes in the peculiar blindness that some have developed to the variety of models available. If it isn't HP, Dell or Toshiba some seem te have difficulty acknowledging it. Actual quote from another forum (upon the discovery of the upcoming Toshiba e830): 'At last HP has some VGA competition. It was beginning to look as if they'd have the field to themselves'.

It's good to see that not everyone is afflicted by such blindness...! :)

[NewYork Boy]

Thank you Duncan for all the answers you provided with such great detail and examples. I’m heading off to www.FirstLoox.org as soon as I leave here. :D

[madmaxmedia]

This seems like the best of the VGA models for me, for the following reasons-

1. Biggest built-in battery
2. 1 MP camera with flash
3. Jog dial
4. USB Host
5. Small

These new VGA models may not be revolutionary, but they all seem to be pretty feature-packed, and are at least moderately priced.

If they were $400, then maybe that would be revolutionary! ;)

[zybler]

In terms of battery life, the ipaq 4700 will probably win. Why? Even though PC Mag states that the ipaq 4700 has only 4 hours of battery life in a typical use situation, don't forget that it has got the 3600 mAh battery option. That makes it the longest lasting pda ever.. at least 8 hours.

Another thing, ipaq 4700 has a larger ROM size. 128MB with 80MB available to user. Would the larger ROM allow for future OS upgrades from microsoft that the other VGA PDAs won't be able to?

Lastly, do you think you could get Consumer Infrared (CIR) and USB host through CF or SD I/O add-on? Any one?

Personally, a megapixel cam is nice to have. Not as essential. One can get megapixel camera through either a dedicated camera or a cameraphone these days.

[Duncan]

In terms of battery life, the ipaq 4700 will probably win. Why? Even though PC Mag states that the ipaq 4700 has only 4 hours of battery life in a typical use situation, don't forget that it has got the 3600 mAh battery option. That makes it the longest lasting pda ever.. at least 8 hours.

Possibly - but having to add an extended battery is not good news for portability...

Another thing, ipaq 4700 has a larger ROM size. 128MB with 80MB available to user. Would the larger ROM allow for future OS upgrades from microsoft that the other VGA PDAs won't be able to?

I doubt the next iteration of Windows Mobile will be too big for a 64MB ROM - that is IF HP were to offer an upgrade anyway. Personally I find a larger RAM to make more sense.

Lastly, do you think you could get Consumer Infrared (CIR) and USB host through CF or SD I/O add-on? Any one?

Yes to both. There is an IR dongle in CF form and a CF USB addon (it is rather ungainly though - from memory). Not sure who makes them or where to buy them mind...

Personally, a megapixel cam is nice to have. Not as essential. One can get megapixel camera through either a dedicated camera or a cameraphone these days.[/quote]

[zybler]

Not really. Perhaps there ARE some reason that they include a 128MB ROM, instead of a 64MB one. For future upgradability maybe? If HP *could* provide an upgrade, they *will* provide an upgrade. You do not want them to give excuses to deny upgrades for ipaq 4700 just because it doesn't have enough ROM do you? :D If it has a higher ROM size, the possibility of it supporting the next version of windows mobile OS is "higher". I've read some articles saying that the next version requires a lot of ROM and HP is responding to it by including a higher ROM size or something along the lines. Can't remember the link though.. But it's just rumours.. nothing is confirmed yet.

[Duncan]

I've read some articles saying that the next version requires a lot of ROM and HP is responding to it by including a higher ROM size or something along the lines. Can't remember the link though.. But it's just rumours.. nothing is confirmed yet.

Just speculation - no-one knows anything much at all about the next OS - but to exceed 64MB would mean a HUGE increase in size - not terribly likely. The 128MB ROM is almost certainly not to future proof the device for OS upgrades but rather to be able to sell it to companies who want lots of non-volatile storage in their PDAs.

[zybler]

I've read some articles saying that the next version requires a lot of ROM and HP is responding to it by including a higher ROM size or something along the lines. Can't remember the link though.. But it's just rumours.. nothing is confirmed yet.

Just speculation - no-one knows anything much at all about the next OS - but to exceed 64MB would mean a HUGE increase in size - not terribly likely. The 128MB ROM is almost certainly not to future proof the device for OS upgrades but rather to be able to sell it to companies who want lots of non-volatile storage in their PDAs.

You know.. I kinda have the feeling that the reason that why HP doesn't offer SE updates to current ipaq owners is because they do not have enough ROM. But wait, not because they don't have enough ROM but because all those apps that they installed made it not enough.

So, okay, this is mere speculation. Let say, the next version of WM requires 56mb. but most pda owners have used 8.1mb for storing their stuff. So now we have the situation where if they offer upgrades, your ROM simply do not have enough space.

[timmer]

In terms of battery life, the ipaq 4700 will probably win. Why? Even though PC Mag states that the ipaq 4700 has only 4 hours of battery life in a typical use situation, don't forget that it has got the 3600 mAh battery option. That makes it the longest lasting pda ever.. at least 8 hours.


I dont agree. The Loox 720 will win if first reviews are any indication. The Loox 720 lasted over 6 hours playing video continuously with backilight on full.

If they bring out an extended battery that is double the size then we can expect video playback for around 12 hours. And in "normal" use things are going to last even longer.

Although judging by the figures I wont really see any need for an extended battery. Maybe a normal battery as spare will be enough for me and then there wont be anything sticking out the back.

The 4700 battery may be bigger but this is no indication that it will last longer. All devices differ in their energy efficiency. Plus the 4700 has a larger 4" screen which is going to drain the battery quicker.

Its the 720 for me I think

[Wiggster]

Don't shoot the Messenger - the Loox 720 release date is...
...Second week of September!

Does this mean US release date? One must wonder...

I want to get my hands on the VGA devices and see if they're worth it. I'm hoping CompUSA will get them in ASAP.

[Yo-DUH_87]

The second week of sept? Wasn't it supposed to be released like the 16th of aug? Or am I thinking of something else...

To be perfectly honest, I can't see any major differences between the Loox 720 and the ASUS 730, except the release date...

Would be nice if they didn't string everyone along like this :roll:

[Duncan]

The second week of sept? Wasn't it supposed to be released like the 16th of aug? Or am I thinking of something else...

It was launched on 16 August - distribution begins September. Not that much of a delay really...! :)

To be perfectly honest, I can't see any major differences between the Loox 720 and the ASUS 730, except the release date...

The Loox has bigger battery, newer (better) version of Bluetooth, is lighter, has Consumer IR, comes with a USB host cable (I believe for the Asus it is a separate purchase - though I'm not absolutely certain), larger user accessible ROM store, more availabe RAM (123 MB vs. 111 MB) etc. - none of those are major in and of themselves - but they add up to a fair difference!

Would be nice if they didn't string everyone along like this :roll:

I'm not sure that any of them have strung us along. We have known about the new VGA Pocket PCs for a long time before the companies actually officially acknowledged them, then some have hit issues such as LCD shortage - that makes it seem that things have been dragging on for a lot longer than they have.

[riuster]

The second week of sept? Wasn't it supposed to be released like the 16th of aug? Or am I thinking of something else...

To be perfectly honest, I can't see any major differences between the Loox 720 and the ASUS 730, except the release date...

Would be nice if they didn't string everyone along like this :roll:

I can state one, customer service, I call up Asus pda division, wait 10 minutes then right to a Tawainese guy's answering machine..

great customer service!