Today's iPAQ 6300 Rumors

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.ipaqabilities.com/iaforums/viewtopic.php?t=187' target='_blank'>http://www.ipaqabilities.com/iaforu...topic.php?t=187</a><br /><br /></div>Can we get the iPAQ 6300 into the Guinness Book of World Records for the worst-kept secret of all time? :D <i>"Surprise! Surprise! Here are the latest leaks on the H6300 series... First, the H6300 series has made its way to Pocket PC Dubai where one of their forum members sent in pictures of his excursion with the H6310 (camera-less model). Secondly, PPC Italia has posted many juicy screenshots of the H6300 series iPAQ Pocket PC including screenshots of the updated iPAQ Wireless and HP Profiles applications...."</i><br /><br />There's more in the article, but I'll just show you two of the sweet screenshots to whet your appetite.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040705-iPAQ6300-1.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040705-iPAQ6300-2.gif" /><br /><br />I think Marc puts it best by saying <i>"Um, I don't know about you, but could we have an official announcement on this iPAQ sometime soon? All these leaks are driving me nuts!"</i>

[yawanag]

I'm in total agreement with Marc. I check on this item two or three times daily. I can't wait for a confirmed report on its availability.

My PPC is being used as a phone only. I go into a state of depression when I can't use my PDA.

I'm ready to order NOW!!!

[brianchris]

I am out of contract, and am holding off renewing until some of these new devices launch. I'm still trying to decide between PPCPE or MS Smartphone.

My BIG concern regarding a PPCPE is: while I'm using it with my Bluetooth GPS for street navigation, and I get a call, can I answer it (with, say, a Bluetooth headset) WITHOUT disrupting the Bluetooth GPS stream? (any current Bluetooth equiped PPCPE device owners care to comment?).

If the answer is "yes," its PPCPE all the way, and then just have to decide between the MPx (as my avatar currently displays) or this h6300. Form factor of the MPx is very intriging, but quad band feature of h6300 is nice too.

If the answer is no, then I'll *have* to go with an MS Smartphone (MPx 100 or 220) and demote my current PPC (iPaq 5455) to in car GPS and database use only.

When will this (and the other batch of new devices) be launched?????????? :worried:

[surur]

You can sleep easy and get ready to spend big bucks on the Mpx.

Using my XDA2 I can use my bluetooth GPS unit and answer a call with my bluetooth headset without any problem. On the xda-developers website some-one went to even further extremes, having a conversation on a bluetooth headset, GPS connection and bluetooth activesync at the same time.

I understand the Mpx uses the same bluetooth stack as the XDA 2 (which is not exactly good news, as its quite limited :( )

I personally would never go for a smartphone device. If you are planning to start over with a new operating system (and you will be, as you cant use pocketpc software) you might as well go for symbian, who have better devices and a more developed software base. You may have a symbian device already, and have probably not installed any software on it at all.

Surur

[brianchris]

You can sleep easy and get ready to spend big bucks on the Mpx.

Using my XDA2 I can use my bluetooth GPS unit and answer a call with my bluetooth headset without any problem. On the xda-developers website some-one went to even further extremes, having a conversation on a bluetooth headset, GPS connection and bluetooth activesync at the same time.

I understand the Mpx uses the same bluetooth stack as the XDA 2 (which is not exactly good news, as its quite limited :( )

I personally would never go for a smartphone device. If you are planning to start over with a new operating system (and you will be, as you cant use pocketpc software) you might as well go for symbian, who have better devices and a more developed software base. You may have a symbian device already, and have probably not installed any software on it at all.

Surur

That's great news....thanks for replying! It definetely lets me keep considering the PPCPE as opposed to MS Smartphone.

Anyone know what Bluetooth stack the h6300 uses (since the MPx & MDAII bluetooth stacks are not great)?

I respect your opinion regarding MS Smartphones.....they're not for everyone. Me? The single most important thing I will do with my next device (again, either PPCPE or MS Smartphone) is Activesync to my hosted Exchange 2003 account ( www.eoutlook.com ). Only MS client Operating Systems can do that currently, so that's where I'm at.

Thanks again for sharing the good news regarding simeltaneous Bluetooth connections!

[corphack]

While I don't doubt the info in these "leaks" (much!) I do find it quite interesting that, for a company whose primary target market is the continental USA, all the "advanced info" always seems to originate from Pocket PC Dubai or PPC Italia. I don't see US sites "leaking" rumors about the next O2 XDA model in advance of the Asian websites - according to the logic of the HP 63xx "leaks", O2 should be displaying its newest models in the US first, since they don't sell them here, and won't be selling them here anytime soon.

Unlike Nokia (who claims that "the US is not its primary target market" - I have it in an email reply from them...) is there really that significant a market in Dubai such that HP would reveal new models made in Taiwan, to the Dubai market first?

According to the DataDubai website "An estimated one million people live in this city, almost double the population of Abu Dhabi which has just above 500,000 residents, the Ministry of Planning said."

So, if every citizen in Dubai received an HP63xx in the mail tomorrow morning, HP would have barely reached 10% of the people in NYC alone. HP's marketing strategists must be at least capable of figuring out a better way to reach more potential customers than this.

Will the official rumors start originating from Pocket PC Iraq, or PPC Tibet next? How about Pocket PC Mars? At least the info would be more believable if the "leaked" pictures came via the Spirit Mars Rover.

[Janak Parekh]

Unlike Nokia (who claims that "the US is not its primary target market" - I have it in an email reply from them...) is there really that significant a market in Dubai such that HP would reveal new models made in Taiwan, to the Dubai market first?
I asked the same question when the XDA 2 was released there first, and people correctly pointed out that Dubai is rapidly establishing itself as a technology center with excellent wireless technologies. I'm no longer surprised. ;) Moreover, HP's marketing seems to have been backwards the last few years. :|

--janak

[corphack]

that Dubai is rapidly establishing itself as a technology center with excellent wireless technologies.

but the most HP could possibly hope to sell in Dubai is 1 million units - after that, the market is saturated and the product line will have to be obsoleted there in order for HP to sell any other models.

The Research Triangle, NC has already established itself as a technology center with excellent wireless and wired technologies and a population of 1.1 million. HP could stay at home and instantly realize a market potential of 0.1 million more people.

The island of Tonga is 109,000. If HP believed Tonga is rapidly establishing itself as a technology center with excellent wireless technologies, it still wouldn't justify a product premier in Tonga.

Manufacturers have to release products where there is a sizable and viable target market, and an existing network of retailers to stock and sell their goods. These are just basics of Marketing 101. Compared with any market in the US and without disparaging Dubai's positive developments, a total population of 1 million people is not a superior target market to the US or to Europe.

As such, I would still be more likely to believe these "leaks" originating from PPC Mars via the Spirit Rover before I would believe them from PPC Dubai.

[bgracewood]

I had a look at those screenshots and have come away wondering if they couldn't do the wireless config page better.

Surely as devices get more and more connection options (GSM, BT, Wifi, WiMax), it would be better to simply say "Application X prefers connection Y, but if you can't get a connection then try connection Z".

Or possibly use an extension of TCP/IP route metrics: define a measure that combines the cost, speed and availability of a given connection, and have the system decide what the 'cheapest' connections is.


You could take it a step further and use profiles (kinda like the phone ring profiles) that say "when I'm at home, prefer connection via my wifi AP, but if that doesn't work try BT via my desktop PC"; and "when I'm at starbucks try wifi first then GPRS". Hell, if you installed VoIP software on the 6300 I'd imagine you'd hardly need GSM in most cities ;) :lol:

I've had a bit of a rant about it here (http://www.cent-com.com/ben/archives/2004/07/06/ubiquitous-networking/).

[Fishie]

that Dubai is rapidly establishing itself as a technology center with excellent wireless technologies.

but the most HP could possibly hope to sell in Dubai is 1 million units - after that, the market is saturated and the product line will have to be obsoleted there in order for HP to sell any other models.

The Research Triangle, NC has already established itself as a technology center with excellent wireless and wired technologies and a population of 1.1 million. HP could stay at home and instantly realize a market potential of 0.1 million more people.

The island of Tonga is 109,000. If HP believed Tonga is rapidly establishing itself as a technology center with excellent wireless technologies, it still wouldn't justify a product premier in Tonga.

Manufacturers have to release products where there is a sizable and viable target market, and an existing network of retailers to stock and sell their goods. These are just basics of Marketing 101. Compared with any market in the US and without disparaging Dubai's positive developments, a total population of 1 million people is not a superior target market to the US or to Europe.

As such, I would still be more likely to believe these "leaks" originating from PPC Mars via the Spirit Rover before I would believe them from PPC Dubai.

It doesnt matter how big the population is, its far more important how big the perceived target audience is in any given market.

Thats why you dont see these things poping up in mainland China and you acknoledged as much already by mentioning the Triangle.

[corphack]

It doesnt matter how big the population is, its far more important how big the perceived target audience is in any given market.

and HP perceives the target market in Dubai is bigger than in the US?

Estimating the potential maximum sales in Dubai is easy: 1 / person = 1 million. Its not rational to perceive a greater potential sales than 1 / person unless HP thinks the majority of their customers will eat or otherwise quickly dispose of the units and have to purchase another of the same model.

Using the logic of perception, how is the perceived target audience in Dubai greater than the perceived target audience in the US?

(and Motorola did introduce their Linux-based smartphone in China first...)

[yslee]

That's not a very good model for determining product launches. Maybe Dubai because it makes a good test bed for marketing to the rest of the world? Dubai I hear is also a good place to shop now, so that might be another factor. Or maybe because the people in Dubai are even more enthusiastic over PDA phones? From where I am we're just plain nuts over overpriced Nokia phones with tacky flashing lights, and the rate which we buy phones is pretty crazy, which is why some phones debut here first. I can see the same for places like Dubai and China.

You simply can't take an oversimplified model like this and say that US would be a better place for a product launch. Going by that logic all product launches will take place in China and India.

[Janak Parekh]

That's not a very good model for determining product launches. Maybe Dubai because it makes a good test bed for marketing to the rest of the world? Dubai I hear is also a good place to shop now, so that might be another factor.
Indeed, Dubai is a commerce center in the region, and the people there are highly wirelessly connected and very educated about data products.

--janak

[Stake]

After waiting and waiting, I'm starting to feel underwhelmed about this device. Is it just me or does 55MB of RAM and a 200mhz proc leave some of you a little disappointed?

Comparing the other "soon to be released" PDA phones, the MPx and the MDA III will give the 6300 some serious competition. Both include BT/WiFi/GSM and/or CDMA, a permanent thumboard and in the MDAs case, a 400 proc with 128MB RAM.

We'll just have to wait and see...

[elehcdn]

It doesnt matter how big the population is, its far more important how big the perceived target audience is in any given market.

Using the logic of perception, how is the perceived target audience in Dubai greater than the perceived target audience in the US?

(and Motorola did introduce their Linux-based smartphone in China first...)

The problem is that Americans all expect their cell phones to be subsidized by the carriers. In order for the carriers to start selling the phones (and subsidize them), they have to be tested and accepted by the carriers. That process takes anywhere from 6 to 9 months. That is why so many cellular phones are first sold in Europe, months ahead of American's abilities to purchase them from Cingular, Sprint or AT&T.

If HP can sell out their complete first run of phones on foreign soil (which is very likely because they have to step up production anyway), that gives them the opportunity to qualify the phones with the providers in the US AND have their production running at full speed.

[yslee]

I think I'll digress quite a bit, but what's with all this "testing"? Here, telcos release phones the same time the retailers get it!

[Hani]

just why 64 mb rams when all new devices are hitting the 128 mb
why the 200 mhz cpu
why no Windows Mobile SE

cant HP see the competition coming with the MDA III and all its memory and speed

everything seems to be perfect, the size close to the 2200, the removable keyboard, the battery, and HP software, but a blow when it comes to memory and speed

very disappointing, i wish hp would release a model foregoing the lame weak camera and going for more memory and more speed, sure the majority will prefer more speed and memory over a 0.3 or 1.3 megapixel camera

but still my ipaq loyalty gets me to buy the h6300 just coz its an iPAQ, but still its disappointing, and im usre a lot feel the same way

[Kai920]

That's great news....thanks for replying! It definetely lets me keep considering the PPCPE as opposed to MS Smartphone.

Anyone know what Bluetooth stack the h6300 uses (since the MPx & MDAII bluetooth stacks are not great)?

According to PocketPC italia.com, it uses the Widcomm 1.4.1 stack. (Probably subject to change) Is it superior to other BT stacks?

Will MDA III have the same BT stack as MDAII?

http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/recensioni/img/6300_screen/6300_37.gif

[corphack]

The problem is that Americans all expect their cell phones to be subsidized by the carriers.

No, the problem doesn't have anything to do with the US (except possibly in the minds of some people salivating at any excuse to post a little American-bashing. Do you recognize the term PLONK!?).

My issue is that these "leaks" have been appearing from Dubai & from Italy for months now but no one has posted a verified picture of a shipping production model; no one has handled anything but pre-production, concept models. The "leaks" are just so much smoke, and the smoke about the 63xx series always seems to be coming from PPC Dubai & PPC Italy.

My issue with the verasity of these "leaks" is that I find it difficult to believe that HP would pick a "hamlet" like Dubai (1 million people in the international markets, no matter how technologically advanced, is a hamlet) in which to "leak" rumors and to ship production models.

I could just as easily substituted London, Taiwan, Seoul, etc. for NY / NC.

The basic issue is the same: the "leaks" are just B.S. until the production units show up in the main distribution stream, and websites are doing customers a disservice by presenting these unverifiable "leaks" as verified information.

[bbarker]

No, the problem doesn't have anything to do with the US (except possibly in the minds of some people salivating at any excuse to post a little American-bashing. Do you recognize the term PLONK!?).
No. What does it mean?

The basic issue is the same: the "leaks" are just B.S. until the production units show up in the main distribution stream, and websites are doing customers a disservice by presenting these unverifiable "leaks" as verified information.
Except, perhaps, the actual photo that showed up on the T-Mobile subscribers-only site.

[Janak Parekh]

I think I'll digress quite a bit, but what's with all this "testing"? Here, telcos release phones the same time the retailers get it!
Not here. :( corphack, you must realize that in the US, the time-to-market for cell phones is much greater than the rest of the world -- this happens because of heavy carrier locking and partially because we don't follow the universal-GSM model everyone else does. In the rest of the world, phones are first and foremost standalone products, and carrier tie-ins are secondary. It's precisely the opposite here.

That's another incentive to see products hit the international market first... note that the iPAQ GSM sleeve, for example, was made available in the rest of the world, but never made it to market here, even months and months after, because the carriers refused to sell it here.

Anyway, I didn't suggest that this was verified information -- note the title of my post. That said, the detail coming out has been far too great and from far too many places for all of this to be total BS. Also, Pocket PC Italia and Dubai have been accurate too often for us to ignore the information in the past.

--janak

[yslee]

corphack, I sense some anti-foreign sentiments on your end. Why does everything have to be limited to the US?

Another reason for Dubai could well be its size.. it's small and easy to control as a market, also the reason why they're an upcoming shopping haven is because of the lack of tariffs and regulation, factors in which make them ideal for a test bed.

On the topic of carrier testing, how do you all stand for it? I understand that CDMA phones in the US do not have a SIM card (though the Asian CDMA networks have them), but for GSM that surely isn't a problem. And given that GSM is more or less a standard, why such long testing times? Carrier locking and subsidies shouldn't be a problem too, as European carriers like Orange do that as well, and their phones don't get released as late as that in the US..

[bbarker]

The U.S. carriers seem to be extremely cautious. They sell both the hardware and the service and are responsible for both, which may be one reason. But that happens in other places as well. U.S. GSM carriers seem to be more innovative than CDMA carriers, but more wary than those in other countries.

[Janak Parekh]

On the topic of carrier testing, how do you all stand for it? I understand that CDMA phones in the US do not have a SIM card (though the Asian CDMA networks have them), but for GSM that surely isn't a problem.
You'd think, right? The mass public doesn't know any better, and as such a "unlocked GSM phone" market has never really established a foothold here. The perception is that phones must be bought from the carrier - and that's it. :| CDMA vendors, of course, further this perception... and until recently, GSM adoption was small. Maybe it'll change.

--janak

[yslee]

That's a real shame. American consumers are very good at getting their wishes across, and I'd think this is one area where they should speak up. GSM phones should be able to be purchased like PDAs, independent of carrier. Ditto for CDMA, after all, CDMA SIMs aren't impossible..

[corphack]

corphack, I sense some anti-foreign sentiments on your end. Why does everything have to be limited to the US?

Its not anti-foreign sentiments (and thats a lame attempt to defuse the merits of an argument you are apparently unable to refute with factual statements) its a simple economic argument with no nationalistic overtones: Dubai has a population of 1 million people. At best that's 1 million potential customers for HP; more potential customers pass through the London or NYC subway on any day of the week; HP can reach a larger group of potential customers by showing one HP 6300 in one store in Manhattan or in East Ham (and running a few newspaper ads) than they could by giving one away free to every resident of Dubai.

A publicly held company has a feduciary responsibility to its shareholders to maximize its profits and therefore its returns paid to those shareholders. It is violating that responsibility by not marketing its products to the largest concentration of potential customers available - by sheer numbers of population density Dubai is not one of the largest target markets available to HP.

Even though HP has formally announced its new product line, the fine print on the T-Mobile website states that the HP63xx will not be available until 8/24, thus it still does not exist as a product in HP's supply chain. Until the units show in mass commercial quantities, any units appearing in reviewers hands are probably pre-production, custom units.

[yslee]

That's because you're harping about it like someone flogging a dead horse. As you can see, contrary to what you claimed as BS, the units are real, and there's probably reason why HP are releasing it in Dubai first.

Once again, Janak and I have said that Dubai was probably a marketing test ground for many reasons which I'll not repeat here; the way you put it, it's like they're never going to launch it in the US. Your accusations that HP are neglecting their fiduciary responsibilities just because they didn't conduct a test campaign, or that they didn't release it earlier in the US, is rather far-fetched. They are launching it, and even if it's a bit later than Dubai, they will still be selling it (probably sell quite a few units), and it's not like they've delayed it forever (Motorola MPx is one example; I've been waiting for it like FOREVER); fact is that it's one of the first of the newest PPCPE devices that actually has a firm ship date.

And since you know your marketing 101, you also should know that having a model that assumes maximum sales at the entire population of the market is not a sound one. Consumer research is more complex than that.

[corphack]

I suppose that along with your total knowledge of everything, you also know the meaning of the words "shill" and "troll"?

[Janak Parekh]

OK, that's quite enough. Thread locked.

--janak