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View Full Version : Seagate Announces 5Gb MICRO-sized Hard DRIVE


Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 02:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/04060901seagate5gbmd.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0406/0...eagate5gbmd.asp</a><br /><br /></div>Tmulli spotted that <a href="http://www.dpreview.com">DPreview</a> have got the inside track on a new Seagate 5Gb Compact Flash II sized Hard disk: <br /><br /><i>"…..although they can't use the name 'Microdrive' that is essentially what this device is. Details at this point are a little thin on the ground, the metal cased device will be available in 2.5 GB and 5 GB capacities, it has a rotational speed of 3600 RPM and features 'RunOn' technology which appears to be a buffering system which avoids data loss if the unit is knocked or vibrated in use. Seagate will also be producing a 'built in' version of the device which is designed to be hardwired into devices such as MP3 players or PDA's."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/seagatemd.jpg" /><br /><br />Now, how does the "built-in version" sound to you? I believe that it may just be the very thing I've been <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28393&amp;">looking forward</a> to. Mmmmm, Pocket PCs with 5Gb of storage space built in…… :werenotworthy:

ghostppc
06-10-2004, 02:07 AM
Awesome! Does anyone remember when 32 megs was more storage than anyone would ever need? Yeah right. Give me the 100 gig microdrive and that might be enough!! :mrgreen: For now, how soon will these 5 gig cards drop in price? :D

Janak Parekh
06-10-2004, 02:08 AM
For now, how soon will these 5 gig cards drop in price? :D
Hopefully faster now that there's a sign of increasing competition. :mrgreen:

--janak

CESkins
06-10-2004, 02:09 AM
Now, how does the "built-in version" sound to you? I believe that it may just be the very thing I've been looking forward to. Mmmmm, Pocket PCs with 5Gb of storage space built in
Microdrive built-in=Increased power consuption=faster battery drain. I will have to take a wait and see approach but great step in the right direction towards higher capacities.

bbarker
06-10-2004, 02:13 AM
...MICRO-seized Hard DRIVE...
Hmm...new technology?

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 02:17 AM
...MICRO-seized Hard DRIVE...
Hmm...new technology?

No, play on words /visual joke. :oops:

Micro......Drive!

(Remember they are not allowed to call it a Microdrive as Hitachi owns that name).

(Well it worked for me :wink:)

buckyg
06-10-2004, 02:18 AM
I was debating about pointing out "seized". What came to mind is that it might "seize" battery power much faster since it's a drive. Okay, enough of that... The increased storage is definitely a step in the right direction! :D

ghostppc
06-10-2004, 02:18 AM
Now, how does the "built-in version" sound to you? I believe that it may just be the very thing I've been looking forward to. Mmmmm, Pocket PCs with 5Gb of storage space built in
Microdrive built-in=Increased power consuption=faster battery drain. I will have to take a wait and see approach but great step in the right direction towards higher capacities.


I agree. But it's still a step in the right direction. To have pda's with large capacity drives that are either soldered in or better yet, user removeable like desktop pc's, by using solid-state cards like CF and secure digital. *sigh* Someday. :D

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 02:19 AM
:oops: OK - get it now. :wink: Fixed.

Typing too fast will get you into trouble! This is an official announcement by the committee to improve spell checkers to know what you *actually* meant! :wink:

Steven Cedrone
06-10-2004, 02:22 AM
Well, since it spins, it could seize... :wink:

Steve

OSUKid7
06-10-2004, 02:25 AM
Well, since it spins, it could seize... :wink:
lol...yeah, I thought that was part of the joke. ;)

dh
06-10-2004, 02:25 AM
It's a shame that so many people have bought those SD only Pocket PCs. To get a reasonable amount of storage they are going to have to get new hardware.

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 02:33 AM
It's a shame that so many people have bought those SD only Pocket PCs. To get a reasonable amount of storage they are going to have to get new hardware.

:lol: Good point. Now where's that thread where folks were talking about how they only wanted a SD slot in their PPC? :wink:

But, it cuts both ways. A new PPC with a CF slot to take one of these in CF format, or a PPC with an SD slot and one of these built in. Choises.....

I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)

ghostppc
06-10-2004, 02:49 AM
I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)


Don't tease us!! :drool:

huangzhinong
06-10-2004, 03:07 AM
I think buildin the 14gb CF card is a good method to save battary, although doesn't save money. :D

Prevost
06-10-2004, 03:16 AM
Can programs run from the CF (or SD) memory slots in PPC??? I suppose it is so, being Windows...

Also, it feels bad that this is coming when so many devices are designed without CF slot.

BTW, how much could cost a PPC with a built in drive??? Just guessing SCARES me :cry:

isilver
06-10-2004, 03:28 AM
Before they increase size I think they should increase throughput. I have a 256MB secure digital card and to fill it up with music will take a good 10 - 15 minutes. I can only imagine how long it will take up a 5 GB card. It must take a few hours.

dh
06-10-2004, 03:29 AM
Can programs run from the CF (or SD) memory slots in PPC??? I suppose it is so, being Windows...

Also, it feels bad that this is coming when so many devices are designed without CF slot.

BTW, how much could cost a PPC with a built in drive??? Just guessing SCARES me :cry:
Yes, most, although not all, programs can run happily from a memory card.

I've personally always felt that buying a PDA without both expansion slots was a bad idea. We keep hearing about how SD memory is going to take over completly from CF, but CF cards are currently a much better memory/cost ratio. However, if I used an Ipod I might feel differently because my need for storage would be reduced. I currently have my 1GB CF card pretty much full with music, I would love to have more storage space.

For me, it's impossible to have too much memory.

Prevost
06-10-2004, 03:36 AM
Can programs run from the CF (or SD) memory slots in PPC??? I suppose it is so, being Windows...
Yes, most, although not all, programs can run happily from a memory card.

Any reason for that behavior in those programs that are unable to run from memory cards???

It intrigues me why is the case that there is so much development in memory expansion in a format (CF) that is said to "soon" dissapear under SD format...if so, where will CF drives run? Why bother in developing the format? :?

foldedspace
06-10-2004, 03:39 AM
How much? ...never mind, I probably don't want to know.

Blue Zero
06-10-2004, 03:43 AM
I dont see what so big of a deal with just only 5gig... :lol:

With the speed on how tech travels, we should of have build-in 20gig microdrive by now...

If anything, its late. IMO

Gremmie
06-10-2004, 04:10 AM
FYI for those who don't remember--Toshiba released a e550MD in Japan, it included CF, SD and a 1gig Microdrive (thus MD).

yslee
06-10-2004, 04:14 AM
No MDs in my portable devices, thank you very much. The presence of a spin up time is annoying enough. Not to mention issues like battery drain, possible shorter lifespan, etc.

Gremmie
06-10-2004, 04:20 AM
I wonder why everyone is iffy on miniature hard drives when iPODs are popular and have proven to stand up to daily abuse.

yslee
06-10-2004, 04:30 AM
iPods are popular, but not with me. =P

maximus
06-10-2004, 06:48 AM
I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)

How about a GSM quad-band PPCPE with 5 gigs built-in, a CF Slot, a SD Slot, bluetooth, wifi, and 2 megapixel camera.

For less than $500 :mrgreen:

jizmo
06-10-2004, 07:08 AM
This is good news since the developement of CF hard driver have been stalled for a long time, mostly because of lack of competition on the area. Had there been more competition for last two years, I bet microdrives would be pushing 15gigs by now.

When there is just one manufacturer making a certain product, there is always much room for improvement - althought the initial hw would seem as unsurpassable miracle. That's the beauty of market economy and free competition :twisted:

/jizmo

kosmicki
06-10-2004, 07:22 AM
How about a GSM quad-band PPCPE with 5 gigs built-in, a CF Slot, a SD Slot, bluetooth, wifi, and 2 megapixel camera.

For less than $500 :mrgreen:

:drool:

It'll happen, but when it does everyone (my self included) will whine why they don't have a gigapixel camera and the sat phone option in it also :P And only 5 gigs? I need at least 40 on my PPC!

Rudolf
06-10-2004, 08:52 AM
I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)

How about a GSM quad-band PPCPE with 5 gigs built-in, a CF Slot, a SD Slot, bluetooth, wifi, and 2 megapixel camera.

For less than $500 :mrgreen:
You forgot to mention the OLED VGA screen, the flip cover, the slide out keyboard, the EDGE and 3G support for the phone part, the bulit in GPS receiver and of course the OPTICAL ZOOM for the camera... Anyone else?
(maybe a bulit in micro sized power plant???)
:mrgreen:

Pony99CA
06-10-2004, 12:38 PM
I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)
How about a GSM quad-band PPCPE with 5 gigs built-in, a CF Slot, a SD Slot, bluetooth, wifi, and 2 megapixel camera.

For less than $500 :mrgreen:
You forgot to mention the OLED VGA screen, the flip cover, the slide out keyboard, the EDGE and 3G support for the phone part, the bulit in GPS receiver and of course the OPTICAL ZOOM for the camera... Anyone else?
(maybe a bulit in micro sized power plant???)
:mrgreen:
Yeah, because who could possibly want that Pocket PC without a flip cover? :roll:

Steve

Pony99CA
06-10-2004, 12:48 PM
This is good news since the developement of CF hard driver have been stalled for a long time, mostly because of lack of competition on the area. Had there been more competition for last two years, I bet microdrives would be pushing 15gigs by now.
PC Card drives have been stalled at 5 GB for years now. I think they use the same drives in an iPod that they use in those PC Card drives, so why haven't we seen 40 GB PC Card drives? Maybe that would be enough to get people to ask for PC Card slots (or iPAQ sleeves) again. :-D

While I think a 5 GB Compact Flash drive is nice, it's not a huge improvement over the 4 GB MicroDrive. We went from 1 GB to 4 GB, so I was hoping the next step would be at least 10 GB.

And, again, you can read why I don't want a built-in hard disk in my Pocket PC (http://thoughts.svpocketpc.com#THOUGHT_PDA_HARDDISKS).

Steve

don dre
06-10-2004, 01:20 PM
yes for now, it's a good idea to stick with removable...unless it needs to be waterproof. sometimes I wish I could take my ipaq in with me when I go snorkeling in the bathtub.
I still have a 1GB MD from IBM. It's almost 3..sniff...sniff...and still works fine.

MichaelA
06-10-2004, 04:17 PM
Yeah, I don't really see this as a major improvement. I've been using a 4GB microdrive in my A620BT since the beginning of the year. For $200 (Creative Nomad Muvo) it was a steal. Battery life is slightly less but not a problem.

AZMark
06-10-2004, 04:57 PM
as an add in device you have all the standard problems with spin up time and battery drain. But, if you build it in you can also build in lots of smarts into the device.

Ability to not power up the MD on power up.
Build in the dreaded power up delay in the PPC to afford the MD to spin up if it is set to power on with the device.
Ability to put it in a data or program mode. Data could power down to save battery life more often, program mode stays on longer.
Caching MP3 player.

All of a sudden you have a monster device that would cause little problem to the end user and have good battery life.

Jason Dunn
06-10-2004, 07:08 PM
FYI for those who don't remember--Toshiba released a e550MD in Japan, it included CF, SD and a 1gig Microdrive (thus MD).

Right, but that MD wasn't on board - it was just a bundle they had, kind of like throwing in a CF card. The concept of putting one of these on-board is a new one - no one has done it yet.

Mark Johnson
06-10-2004, 07:28 PM
:lol: Good point. Now where's that thread where folks were talking about how they only wanted a SD slot in their PPC?


Allo, whut's this? I believe I have been summoned... :wink:

Why yes, I still would defend the "SD-only in my PPC" position, but I do think this is exceedingly cool. I want to see more iPod mini sort of mp3 players out there and I think this will help drive that. I need more space only for my music. I listen to my music in my car, so I've been pretty happy with my dedicated mp3 player (Archos Jukebox 20gb) in the car and few-if-any songs in the PPC. I'd love to make my mp3 player smaller (more like the iPod mini) but even if it was, I'd still leave it in the car most of the time.

If they made a 100gb iPod mini the size of a matchbox tomorrow, I'd buy one to leave in my car, but I wouldn't want them to weld it onto the back of my 1910...

What is really great about Seagate getting into this game is the idea that smaller and less "RIAA-oriented" mp3 players could show up. Since Hitachi 1" drives are "joind-at-the-hip" to Apple and Creative, and both Apple and Creative are bowing deeply to the hollywood/RIAA/anti-piracy factions, both companies are producing "reduced-function" devices to make sure your music is "locked-in" as much as possible. My Archos plugs in with USB 2.0 to any current Windows computer (WITHOUT drivers or "jukebox management" software!) and instantly appears as a generic USB Mass-Storage Device in Windows Explorer. I can't move mp3's (and any other data files) on and off any machine I choose. I just HATE iTunes, not because it is badly designed, but because it really is not about helping you manage your music (as Apple markets it) but helping Apple and RIAA make sure you can't move your music beyond the borders of their fiefdom. (Consider how there is still no practical way for you to buy an iTunes song and resell later to someone else even if you no longer want it.)

I hope Seagate works with Archos and gives us some real competition with the iPod mini.

Ethan
06-10-2004, 07:43 PM
Do not bring a microdrive with you on a roller coaster. I brought mine on the Cyclone at Coney Island. I survived. The microdrive didn't.

Yes, I'm a complete moron. It was out of warranty too. I still have it if anyone wants to play with it.

Ethan

Will T Smith
06-10-2004, 07:47 PM
Can programs run from the CF (or SD) memory slots in PPC??? I suppose it is so, being Windows...

Also, it feels bad that this is coming when so many devices are designed without CF slot.

BTW, how much could cost a PPC with a built in drive??? Just guessing SCARES me :cry:
Yes, most, although not all, programs can run happily from a memory card.

I've personally always felt that buying a PDA without both expansion slots was a bad idea. We keep hearing about how SD memory is going to take over completly from CF, but CF cards are currently a much better memory/cost ratio. However, if I used an Ipod I might feel differently because my need for storage would be reduced. I currently have my 1GB CF card pretty much full with music, I would love to have more storage space.

For me, it's impossible to have too much memory.


CF cards are going to be around for a VERY long time. High end digital photography RELIES on Microdrives. There is NO WAY to fit a hard drive in an Secure Digitial, Memory Stick, or SD form factor. At least not for the forseeable future.

Even when flash memory in the 10GB range gets cheap. The hard drives will still outpace them. Likely, you'll eventually see mini-camcorders running off PCMCIA, and CF hard drives instead of tape.

The only thing that may kill off CF is a short form factor ExpressCard. But that is likely 3-4 years down the road since notebooks aren't currently shipping with full size Express Cards.

http://www.expresscard.org/graphics.htm

The modules are all USB2.0 capable. This would provide an excellent interface for memory and peripheral cards that are marketable to both desktop and PDAs.

Until then, CF will survive in it's current form. It's too useful in terms of PDAs, MP3 players and professional/enthusiast camera markets.

Will T Smith
06-10-2004, 07:52 PM
I wonder why everyone is iffy on miniature hard drives when iPODs are popular and have proven to stand up to daily abuse.

Most of the power your PDA uses goes to the display. The iPod avoids this by including a low-res, low-power monochrone LCD.

A device running BOTH a Microdrive and a backlit display is going to drain pretty quickly.

cmchavez
06-10-2004, 09:01 PM
For now, how soon will these 5 gig cards drop in price? :D
Hopefully faster now that there's a sign of increasing competition. :mrgreen:

--janak

Amen to that! :twisted: That's exactly why I can't wait to see what audio devices come from Microsoft later this year. Anything that gets Apple to drop the prices of their Ipods will be a good thing.

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 09:57 PM
I know! How about a PPC with a CF slot AND a SD slot AND one of these built in. 8O Yes please! 8)

How about a GSM quad-band PPCPE with 5 gigs built-in, a CF Slot, a SD Slot, bluetooth, wifi, and 2 megapixel camera.

For less than $500 :mrgreen:

No camera thanks! :wink:

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 09:58 PM
BTW, how much could cost a PPC with a built in drive??? Just guessing SCARES me :cry:

Well, don't forget about the $200 MP3 players folks were buying that had 5Gb Mirodrives in them that would cost $400 bought standalone. Buying in bulk and integrating them into PPCs would really drive the price down.....

Jonathon Watkins
06-10-2004, 10:03 PM
This is good news since the developement of CF hard driver have been stalled for a long time, mostly because of lack of competition on the area. Had there been more competition for last two years, I bet microdrives would be pushing 15gigs by now.
PC Card drives have been stalled at 5 GB for years now.

Don't forget Steve that the perfect sweet spot for MP3 players is 1,000 songs (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27295&) or 4-5Gb. :wink:

maximus
06-11-2004, 01:45 AM
Don't forget Steve that the perfect sweet spot for MP3 players is 1,000 songs (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27295&) or 4-5Gb. :wink:

1000 oggs on a 2GB SD/MMC card is good enough for me =)

[/quote]

Pony99CA
06-11-2004, 09:57 AM
yes for now, it's a good idea to stick with removable...unless it needs to be waterproof. sometimes I wish I could take my ipaq in with me when I go snorkeling in the bathtub.
Even if the hard disk wasn't removable, the iPAQ still wouldn't be close to waterproof. There are too many openings in the case (screen bezel, buttons, ports, microphone, headset jack, etc.).

However, if you want to go bathtub snorkeling, you can get an Aquapac Waterproof PDA case (http://www.aquapac.net/usstore/erol.html), which is supposedly waterproof to 15 feet.

Steve

SassKwatch
06-11-2004, 01:36 PM
CF cards are going to be around for a VERY long time. High end digital photography RELIES on Microdrives.
Exactly. There are a *LOT* of digital cameras with CF only capabilities. A few SD capable ones have been introduced in the last yr or so, but right now, CF dominates by a large margin.

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but the target market for these type things is not even remotely *only* the pda market. Though I've never seen any stats, I'd hazard a guess that the digicam market for memory cards is a LOT bigger than that for pda's. Every digicam *has to* have one, and though most cameras come with one, the supplied one is generally so anemic in size as to be all but useless. While the large majority of pda owners probably do wind up buying an extra memory card, it's not a must have item. A LOT of people are buying digicams these days, but pda sales......?

For photographers who shoot in .RAW format, these larger 'Microdrives' *might* be pretty popular. The question is....would one prefer to have 5 1gb memory cards, or 1 5gb drive. Arguments could be made for both.

Len M.
06-11-2004, 04:48 PM
This is sort-of good news.

Since HP will soon stop building iPAQs that accept their expansion packs, if you need to use two CF (or PC Card) accessories you'll be out of luck.

So unless the non-storage accessory you need in your iPAQ is in SD/SDIO/MMC format, you won't be able to use this neat 5 GB hard disk card.

Let's hope that the next model of iPAQ has a nice large hard drive built in so that you can use the expansion slots for other things.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com