What's Windows CE .NET?

[DiGiTYZED]

I'm looking at the driver page for my stinking bluetooth card and it lists Windows CE .NET as an OS along with Windows Mobile 2003, Pocket PC 2002, Pocket PC & Windows XP/2000/ME/98.

What's Windows CE .NET?

TIA

[nosmohtac]

I am not a developer, or IT person, but I will tell you my understanding of it.

CE.NET is the OS that Windows mobile 2003 is based on.
There are a few devices out, that are running CE.NET, but a majority are going to be WM2003.

[Kowalski]

CE.NET is the OS that Windows mobile 2003 is based on.
i am sorry but where did you get this idea?
.NET is actualy a runtime environment. basicly it works like VB runtimes, but much more complicated and better implementation.
when you compile your application by a .NET compiler to output of the compiler is not a machine code. the application is converted to machine code in the runtime. this is called cross platform.
so you can have any type of proccessor or any type of device, and if the device has .NET interprater you can run your application.

[Jeff Rutledge]

.NET is actualy a runtime environment. basicly it works like VB runtimes, but much more complicated and better implementation.

See, that's not how I understood it. I thought what you're describing above is the .NET framework (or the .NET CF for mobile devices). I thought CE.NET was the platform on which the Windows Mobile 2003 was developed.

It think there are a few of us in this boat. Maybe somebody who actually knows can chime in. ;)

[Jonathon Watkins]

.NET is actualy a runtime environment. basicly it works like VB runtimes, but much more complicated and better implementation.

See, that's not how I understood it. I thought what you're describing above is the .NET framework (or the .NET CF for mobile devices). I thought CE.NET was the platform on which the Windows Mobile 2003 was developed.

I believe that you are correct JR. I also believe that CE.NET is also known as CE 4.2, as you can see here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/embedded/embedded_050103.asp).

Windows CE is a platform in it's own right - think of it like DOS. Pcoket PC is a OS/shell on top of this this, like Wndows 3.1.

Windows CE 4.2 includes the .NET framework.

[nosmohtac]

CE.NET is the OS that Windows mobile 2003 is based on.
i am sorry but where did you get this idea?
.NET is actualy a runtime environment. basicly it works like VB runtimes, but much more complicated and better implementation.
when you compile your application by a .NET compiler to output of the compiler is not a machine code. the application is converted to machine code in the runtime. this is called cross platform.
so you can have any type of proccessor or any type of device, and if the device has .NET interprater you can run your application.

As I said in my previous post, Kowalski, I am not a developer or IT person. I am just a pocket PC enthusiast who saw a question that I might try and answer. I don't know if it was intended the way I took it, but I don't appreciate your "know it all" attitude. I've seen your posts around here for a while, and many of them seem rather inflammatory. In several of them you cut down people for asking innocent questions. I was reading in one of your posts how you hoped that someone would post a ROM image of Window Mobile 2003SE for your device so you wouldn't have to pay for it, then in another post you were flaming someone else for asking a question about how to get a copy of a program, saying how this community doesn't support that kind of activity because it's illegal.

I just did a google search for CE.NET and came up with this article;
LAS VEGAS -- Jan. 7, 2002 -- Today in his keynote address at the 2002 International CES in Las Vegas, Bill Gates, chairman and chief software architect of Microsoft Corp., announced the launch of Microsoft® Windows® CE .NET, the robust, real-time embedded operating system for rapidly building the next generation of small-footprint smart devices such as handhelds, smart phones, set-top boxes, retail point-of-sale devices and displays. In addition, Microsoft announced new promotional pricing of $995 for the Windows CE .NET tools, as well as free availability of Evaluation and Emulation editions of the tools and platform, and source access to additional Windows CE .NET components. The company also detailed the new Windows CE .NET training curriculum. All of these will help bring developers up to speed quickly on the Windows CE .NET platform and tools, jump-starting their development process.

[nosmohtac]

As I said in my first post, there are some handheld devices that run on CE.NET without the Windows Mobile 2003 OS. These are HPCs and because of their varying resolutions and screen sizes, they don't follow many of the standards for programs written for PocketPC.



The sigmarion III utilizes the Microsoft Windows CE .NET operating system and is powered by an Intel PXA255 400 MHz processor. It features a 5.0-inch semi-transparent TFT display with W-VGA 800 x 480 pixel resolution, approaching standard PC screen quality.

The Netbook Pro includes Windows CE.NET 4.2 which is a good choice for enterprise and for Psion. They are able to drop the OS in a wide variety of devices and since the development environment is familiar to developers enterprise is able to dig right in.

The MobilePro 900c is a ultra portable mobile platform that shares many of the performance and usability features of its predecessor, the MobilePro 900, however, the key differentiator with the new MobilePro 900c is its standardization on the new Windows CE .NET operating system 4.2, the successor to Microsoft's Windows CE 3.0 platform. With CE .NET, the MobilePro 900c is optimised with better support for secure and scalable networking, enhanced processing speed and performance, richer multimedia and Web browsing capabilities, and greater interoperability with personal computers, servers, Web services, and other mobile devices. Additionally, the MobilePro 900c provides customers with a solution for migrating their Windows CE 3.0-based applications to the new Windows CE .NET architecture

[DiGiTYZED]

So I don't need to download it since I have Windows Mobile 2003?

Also, why would they frequently update Window CE .NET drivers over the other OS drivers (WM2K3, PPPC2002, etc.)???

The .NET drivers have been updated 2 times within the last week. The others have not been updated since late last year. What gives???

[Fishie]

So I don't need to download it since I have Windows Mobile 2003?

Also, why would they frequently update Window CE .NET drivers over the other OS drivers (WM2K3, PPPC2002, etc.)???

The .NET drivers have been updated 2 times within the last week. The others have not been updated since late last year. What gives???

WinCE gets frequent updates since it covers such a wide range of devices(mostly enterprise devices BTW) PPC2k2 and Windows Mobile are closed systems based on CE with little if any customisation by the vendors so they dont need updates of drivers(unless there is an error or something in the original drivers).

[DiGiTYZED]

Gotcha. Thanx ppl!

[nosmohtac]

So I don't need to download it since I have Windows Mobile 2003?

Also, why would they frequently update Window CE .NET drivers over the other OS drivers (WM2K3, PPPC2002, etc.)???

The .NET drivers have been updated 2 times within the last week. The others have not been updated since late last year. What gives???

WinCE gets frequent updates since it covers such a wide range of devices(mostly enterprise devices BTW) PPC2k2 and Windows Mobile are closed systems based on CE with little if any customisation by the vendors so they dont need updates of drivers(unless there is an error or something in the original drivers).

Thanks Fishie, I was trying to reply to this question, but ended up with about half a page of crap that I could barely decipher.

You worded it very well, and kept it simple.

[Fishie]

Heh, glad I could be of asistance.

[Kowalski]

I don't know if it was intended the way I took it, but I don't appreciate your "know it all" attitude. I've seen your posts around here for a while, and many of them seem rather inflammatory
i'll be honest with you and this statement is true. i owe an apology for everyone who face the evil part in me. since i work alot, i am face lots of stress everyday in my life and cant stand dumb people.

now lets get to business. i use Visual C++ all the time in my projects. One day i saw that there will be a conferance about .NET development environment. i registered and i found myself debating about .NET vs traditional c++ to the spokes man.

from a users perspective of view, there is only one difference: if your device doesnt have a .NET runtime, you can run your program but if you installed it once, a program written in .NET and c++ will run the same way and you wont notice a difference.

but inside the situation is different. while the traditional compilers(visual studio, delphi...) generate machine code for a specific proccessor, .NET generates the commands for runtime engine just like VB.

.NET is the name for the runtime environment, not the OS itself.

[nosmohtac]

I accept your apology, Kowalski, and I apologize too for being a hipocrit, because I'm often the same way. I get very irritated by dumb things people do and say, but I really don't like being treated like I'm stupid.

I concede that when it comes to programming and development, I'm quite ignorant. I knew a little Basic, and took a FORTRAN in college, but I know little to nothing about any of the programming tools today.

[Kowalski]

so we are cool!
well i will explain the situation in a more detailed way:
microsoft makes this name convertions all the time. the OS structure is same and doesnt change when the .NET pops in. .NET only adds a runtime engine. thats all.this confuses the people.
but for the programmers this is different. i am very happy with my embedded visual c++ . i dont consider to change my way and use . NET for a long time. even .NET has a c++ support, i dont like the idea behind cross platform! i find performance is more important issue than cross platforming

[Janak Parekh]

.NET is the name for the runtime environment, not the OS itself.
After all that debate... this is actually incorrect when it comes to Windows CE, believe it or not. The name "CE .NET" is an artifact of a failed Microsoft strategy: calling everything .NET. Microsoft was going to do this with Windows Server 2003, calling it .NET Server 2003, but wisely decided to rename it. CE .NET, unfortuantely, was stuck with the .NET moniker.

In any case, CE .NET is just the name for the Windows CE OS starting with v4.0. WM2003 is indeed built on top of "CE .NET" 4.2 (Pocket PC 2002 and 2000 were built on top of CE 3.0). It so turns out that CE .NET (and WM2003, right?) come with the .NET Compact Framework, which is one version of the runtime environment you are referring to.

Finally, AFAIK, MS is going to drop the .NET moniker for CE 5.0, even though it will come with a version of .NET CF.

As to what this means for this thread: DiGiTYZED, you can try the CE .NET drivers, but they're really intended for OEM devices that aren't Pocket PCs, but rather generic CE .NET devices. These are used in vertical applications and the like. In general, the Pocket PC drivers will work better on your handheld, especially in terms of the user interface, as the generic CE .NET platform is geared towards a wider variety of devices.

--janak

[conflagrare]

so we are cool!
well i will explain the situation in a more detailed way:
microsoft makes this name convertions all the time. the OS structure is same and doesnt change when the .NET pops in. .NET only adds a runtime engine. thats all.this confuses the people.
but for the programmers this is different. i am very happy with my embedded visual c++ . i dont consider to change my way and use . NET for a long time. even .NET has a c++ support, i dont like the idea behind cross platform! i find performance is more important issue than cross platforming

I'm a Pocket PC software / drivers / hardware developer.

Windows CE.NET refers to the operating system. This is the correct answer given the context of the question.

.NET by itself refers to the runtime environment, programming language stuff Microsoft tries to sell to the software developers.

On the contrary, there are many changes on the API's (translation: "programming command set") between the Windows CE.NET and Windows CE. You can see these compatability footnotes all over the place in the Mcirosoft documentations.

The answer to your driver question: What happens is that Microsoft releases Windows CE.NET, and then it is customized into what you call Windows Mobile 2002/2003 etc. As such, 95% of the base functions in Windows CE.NET exists also in Windows Mobile 2003. I have not tried it myself, but I venture that at least 66% of programs written for Windows CE.NET would work for Windows Mobile 2002/2003.

As such, there is a good chance that non-hardware specific driver updates for the Windows CE.NET will also work on your Pocket PC. Of course, if the updated driver is specific to your machine (the LCD screen, for example) then there's no way it would work. Drivers for devices not directly connected (SDIO/CF/IR stuff) would most likely work.

Therefore, most manufacturers would make creating Windows CE.NET drivers a priority, and that's why you see the frequent updates. Even if the driver is not compatible with pocketPC's, it wouldn't take much work to update it once you have the Windows CE.NET version.

The bit about the JIT runtime support of the .NET, personally I welcome it. Java has tried this, and frankly, it's not the most efficient runtime in the world. (how many long seconds does it take for you to start any java applications?) Therefore, I'm in favor of this JIT runtime just because it gives programmers a choice instead of using java.

[Kowalski]

the idea behind JIT compiler is pretty good. first it compiles your program to assembly code, then runs your program and hold as much as assembly code in the global cache so compiler doesnt have to compile some parts again and again like java engine does.
and thank you for your proffessional aproach which gave us the real answer at all

[Janak Parekh]

the idea behind JIT compiler is pretty good. first it compiles your program to assembly code, then runs your program and hold as much as assembly code in the global cache so compiler doesnt have to compile some parts again and again like java engine does.
I don't quite understand the comparison here. Both Java and .NET Framework employ a JIT to run their bytecode equivalents. Java has a Hotspot optimizing compiler that will recompile frequently-used loops, but it's intended as a performance boost, and if you don't like it, you can turn it off.

conflagrare, what version of Java have you used as of late? On most modern machines, I'd say the startup time of the JVM is similar to that of the .NET "VM" in my practical experience.

--janak