PalmOne Prepares PDA Updates

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/15/new_palms/' target='_blank'>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/15/new_palms/</a><br /><br /></div>The Register reports that PalmOne will launch a series of new machines on 28 April. "Top of the list of anticipated models are consumer-oriented Zire 31 and Zire 72 models. Details remain scarce, but both are being advertised for around $170 and $310 apiece. The two products' model numbers are P80708ML3 and P80722ML3, respectively, or P80708US and P80722US in North America. Web rumours suggest the Zire 31 will sport a 160 x 160 colour screen and an SD Card slot for memory expansion. The case features just two application buttons, rather than the usual four." Wow, an upgrade that removed half the buttons? The Zen of Palm strikes again! Homeopathic hardware – if four buttons are good then having half that number is better, right? Roll on the one-button Palm: on and off only! :lol: <br /><br />"The Zire 72, meanwhile, is said to offer an improved integrated digicam - 1.3 megapixels compares to the 71's 640 x 480 job. It will also contain 64MB of memory, of which 56MB are available to the user. The device is said to have extra buttons to activate the camera and fire up RealPlayer." So, extra buttons for the RealPlayer users? Seems appropriate somehow. :wink:

[cscullion]

Actually, these both sound like nice units. The price on the Zire 31 concerns me a bit... the low-end magic number is $99 I think. Still, it seems like these devices should sell well in their target (no pun intended) market. Still waiting to see a "hang on the shelf, plastic-wrap" Pocket PC for sale at WalMart.

[arnage2]

Think about that for a sec. Color, sd, arm and os5 for $150! I spent $280 in 2001 for an m125 with B&w, 8mb and 33mhz.

Along with the release of these models, it is very probable that a highend device will deput. Most likely with a pxa27x, wifi, 64 or 128mb of ram, and a half vga screen.

[orol]

The Register reports that PalmOne will launch a series of new machines on 28 April. "Top of the list of anticipated models are consumer-oriented Zire 31 and Zire 72 models. Details remain scarce, but both are being advertised for around $170 and $310 apiece. The two products' model numbers are P80708ML3 and P80722ML3, respectively, or P80708US and P80722US in North America. Web rumours suggest the Zire 31 will sport a 160 x 160 colour screen and an SD Card slot for memory expansion. The case features just two application buttons, rather than the usual four." Wow, an upgrade that removed half the buttons? The Zen of Palm strikes again! Homeopathic hardware – if four buttons are good then having half that number is better, right? Roll on the one-button Palm: on and off only! :lol:

heh, yet another biased comment from PPC user ;-)

do you even realized that palmOne sold over 1,5 milions of the original palm zire ? it is the best sold PDA EVER and specs ?

it had only 2 MB of ram and louse 16mhz processor. and if only 1/3 of these customers would buy tungsten E or even T3 it's really a successul marking strategy how to lock-in prospects ..

you have to look on these figures too :-) show me ANY pc that was sold at least in 1/3 of this amount

[gorkon280]

The original Zire was the first with 2 instead of 4 application buttons and they sold a BUNCH! The Zire 31 is a upgrade of the 21 which is an uopgrade of the original zire. My guess is it will be white and have the same form factor as the original Zire.

[Jonathon Watkins]

heh, yet another biased comment from PPC user ;-)

I'm so glad you put that winky in Orol - you realised the spirit in which it was posted. As a handheld family we are allowed to tease our backward cousins aren't we? :wink:

do you even realized that palmOne sold over 1,5 milions of the original palm zire ? it is the best sold PDA EVER and specs ?

it had only 2 MB of ram and louse 16mhz processor. and if only 1/3 of these customers would buy tungsten E or even T3 it's really a successul marking strategy how to lock-in prospects ..

you have to look on these figures too :-) show me ANY pc that was sold at least in 1/3 of this amount

True - but hopefully that will change. Palm isn't synonymous with handheld device any more......

[arnage2]

heres some pix of the zires. Thanks brighthand. http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=103718

[dangerwit]

Do either of these models have that pull-tab aluminum cover on 'em? ;)

*Phil

[Zack Mahdavi]

Well, back in February, I was thinking about waiting for the new Tungsten to come out in April or so with Palm OS 6... well, I ended up purchasing an iPaq 4155 in February, and I'm glad I did!

So where's that Tungsten now? Good thing I didn't wait.

[arnage2]

os 6 isnt going to appear untill september or october.

[Janak Parekh]

The case features just two application buttons, rather than the usual four." Wow, an upgrade that removed half the buttons? The Zen of Palm strikes again!
Just a minor note -- the earlier Zire's also had only two, so this is not new. I guess it's to prevent newbies from getting confused. ;) Seriously, if anyone wanted a entry-level Palm, I tried to steer them away from the earlier Zire's -- I found the lack of a backlight egregious, and urged them to get an iPAQ 19xx, or at least a Sony or Palm m1xx. I think Palm finally woke up to that little concern. It'll be interesting to see how nice the color screen is.

--janak

[Take1]

Well, back in February, I was thinking about waiting for the new Tungsten to come out in April or so with Palm OS 6... well, I ended up purchasing an iPaq 4155 in February, and I'm glad I did!

So where's that Tungsten now? Good thing I didn't wait.

LOL! :lol:

That's exactly what I did. I was going to wait for the new Palms to replace my T|2, but opted to get and iPaq 4150 instead. It's working out great (except for the alarms :oops: ). I found the replaceable battery a definite plus as none of the Palms have thought to include this in ANY of their handhelds.

The next device I will buy is a VGA 41xx. Hopefully, it will use the same battery I have in the 4150 (I have 3 of them...).

[Gremmie]

I'm looking forward to the new competition, I think this will only improve Pocket PC's. PalmOS 5 and 6 is an obvious reversal of earlier Palm philosophy: the PC operations for the PC. While I'm glad Palm finally found the way, I'm hesitant about the multi-threading. My test for the new Palms will be, can I pull up my contacts, look at a name, while switching between writing a note and reading an email.

And I think Oracl is missing a key fact, while Palm had great sales with the Zire, I'm not sure how well that is helping Palm in the long-term. Palm has stagnated as a company until recently when the Treo, a unique device, helped its revenues. Zire has done little to grasp future buyers, $99 Zire buyers will probably not need anymore than that low-margin device.

[Zack Mahdavi]

os 6 isnt going to appear untill september or october.

I know, and I'm disappointed. I figured that since the OS was released in December, Palm would have its normal April release of handhelds with OS 6. Once again, I was wrong.. :)

[theone3]

PICTURES (http://www.pocketloft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2571) 8O

Lookin good. ;) ('cept the 31)

[guinness]

The Zire 72 doesn't look bad, price and specs wise, but the Zire 31 looks very lame for it's price. For about $50 dollars more, you can pick up the T|E.

[huangzhinong]

The Zire 72 doesn't look bad, price and specs wise, but the Zire 31 looks very lame for it's price. For about $50 dollars more, you can pick up the T|E.

Zire 31 suppose to be $199 from the pictures. So they want to discontinue TE?

[Jason Dunn]

It's nice to see some competition - it will keep Pocket PC OEMs innovating - but let's be clear on something: the low end units such as the Zire 71 and subsequent $99-ish devices, have razor-thing margins and make very little profit for Palm. In a way they're almost like a loss leader that gets people in the door, and Palm hopes they'll upgrade to more expensive (and profitable) units down the road. It would be interesting to see what % of Zire 71 users have upgraded to a more expensive unit...

[Prevost]

The case features just two application buttons, rather than the usual four." Wow, an upgrade that removed half the buttons? The Zen of Palm strikes again!
Just a minor note -- the earlier Zire's also had only two, so this is not new. I guess it's to prevent newbies from getting confused. ;) Seriously, if anyone wanted a entry-level Palm, I tried to steer them away from the earlier Zire's -- I found the lack of a backlight egregious, and urged them to get an iPAQ 19xx, or at least a Sony or Palm m1xx. I think Palm finally woke up to that little concern. It'll be interesting to see how nice the color screen is.

--janak
Nowadays a 160x160 screen is NOT going to be nice. And, less so for $199.

Besides that, I feel that fixed Graffitti Area is a thing of the past...

[Zack Mahdavi]

It would be interesting to see what % of Zire 71 users have upgraded to a more expensive unit...

Jason, you bring up a very interesting point. I know a lot of people who have been using a Palm III for over 5 years. Recently, a bunch of them upgraded to the $99 Zire 21s. So 5 years with a Palm III, and then a $99 Zire 21 purchase?

I'm beginning to think most people just want a cheap organizer. I'm guessing that % must be pretty low.

[mangochutneyman]

FYI, lots more real pic below:

http://public.fotki.com/He3eK/palm_photos/new_palms/

The Zire 72 with 320x320 rez screen, BT, 1.2 MP camera, 32 MB Ram, voice recoder, etc is a good deal if priced sub $300 USD imo...

[Steven Cedrone]

FYI, lots more real pic below:

http://public.fotki.com/He3eK/palm_photos/new_palms/

The Zire 72 with 320x320 rez screen, BT, 1.2 MP camera, 32 MB Ram, voice recoder, etc is a good deal if priced sub $300 USD imo...

Is it me, or are all of the photos coming up as broken links/missing?

Steve

[Prevost]

FYI, lots more real pic below:

http://public.fotki.com/He3eK/palm_photos/new_palms/

The Zire 72 with 320x320 rez screen, BT, 1.2 MP camera, 32 MB Ram, voice recoder, etc is a good deal if priced sub $300 USD imo...

Is it me, or are all of the photos coming up as broken links/missing?

Steve
It is you :wink:

I opened 'em within Internet Explorer as it came from the topic's answer link.

Anyway, they don't look bad, particularily the one with the 1.2 Mp camera, but the design IS as aged as it looks.

[Steven Cedrone]

You're right, they appear to be working now. I wonder if my laptop is having a bad night?

Steve

[Fishie]

Low margins my tush.

Sharp can effing sell a Linux PDA made to full PPC specs with a 200MHz xscale, 32mb rom, 64mb RAM, QVGA 16 bit screen in a nice metal body and sell it for around 100$ retail and you guys wanna tell me that a plastic toy like the Zire that sold for the same price is a low margin item?

Jason please get real.

Palm is making a killing on the Zires and you know it.

[yslee]

Err, $100 is a bit optimistic. Are you talking about the Zaurus 5500 and 5600? They were going for very close to the price of the Zire 71 here, before Palm cut the prices.

[Fishie]

Err, $100 is a bit optimistic. Are you talking about the Zaurus 5500 and 5600? They were going for very close to the price of the Zire 71 here, before Palm cut the prices.

The SL-A300 sells in Japan for 9990yen retail plus tax.

[mangochutneyman]

Err, $100 is a bit optimistic. Are you talking about the Zaurus 5500 and 5600? They were going for very close to the price of the Zire 71 here, before Palm cut the prices.

Here are updated specs and price points:

Zire 72:
-312 MHz Intel Proc
-32 MB RAM
-1.2 MP camera with zoom (supports both still and video)
- bluetooth
-no slider anymore
-320x320 rez screen
-voice recorder
-latest palmos with enhanced PIM, versamail 2.7 and webpro 3.5 etc
-priced ~$300 USD


Zire 31:
-200 MHz Proc
-160x160 rez screen
-SD slot (SDIO?)
-16 MB
-Z21 form factor and buttons
-mp3 playback!!
-price ~$150 USD

Where else can you get a current pda with builtin mp3 player for sub $150 price point? The Z31 should sell very well in blister packs to soccer mom market at Target....

[Fishie]

Well you can get the Zaurus for under 100$ brand new.

And its a lot better device then the Zire31 is.

[Scott R]

There is no advantage is palmOne selling PDAs at a loss or even close to that. There may not be the huge profit margins in the Zire 31 that exist in other devices of theirs, but they wouldn't be selling it if they couldn't make an acceptable profit level from them. Plus, remember that a $10 profit on a device they can sell 1000 of is almost as good as a $100 profit on a device they can only sell 100 of (I say "almost" because the support costs of dealing with 900 more customers has to be factored in). Remember, this isn't 1996 (or whenever it was) and they don't own the entire Palm OS market any more. Palm OS owns the market in terms of number of devices out there, so that battle doesn't need to be won by giving away devices at a loss and, even if it did, palmOne would be foolish to undertake such a goal because a user who buys a cheap palmOne device today is just as likely to upgrade to another manufacturer's Palm OS device tomorrow. So no guaranteed sale for palmOne there.

What's interesting to me is that this Zire 31 is basically a Treo 600 without the phone or thumbboard. Now, I don't expect that the thumbboard costs much to mass-manufacture in comparison to the extended Graffiti panel, so this demonstrates to me that their profit margins on the Treo 600 are insane. This doesn't surprise me in the least, because there's no reason IMO that the Treo 600 should have to cost $600 ($300-400 after carrier discounts). Even if the Treo 600 isn't selling en masse (and at that price, I don't suspect that it does), if they can keep inventory low and sell them as fast they make them, at that sort of profit margin they've got a pretty good thing going.

As far as these devices are concerned...I find the Zire 31 to be the more interesting device because it brings convergent high-quality PIM and MP3 functionality to the sub-$150 price point (discounted, we should see this under $130 fairly soon). IMO, they should have given it a B&W screen, more on-board memory, and modified the button design/layout (and added a couple of extra buttons) to serve double-duty as hard buttons for the MP3 functionality (e.g., Play/Pause, Skip Track, etc.). That would have made for a very compelling device for people who want an inexpensive long-playing MP3 player and basic PIM functionality in one small device.

Scott

[Prevost]

According to InfoSyncWorld, battery life is VERY poor

[PPCRules]

do you even realized that palmOne sold over 1,5 milions of the original palm zire ? ... if only 1/3 of these customers would buy tungsten E or even T3 it's really a successul marking strategy how to lock-in prospects ...

My estimated on repeat buyers (and accepting 1.5 million as accurate) ...

A good 1/3 won't even end up using the device (impulse buy or received as a gift or promotion). Another 25% will get weary of carrying or syncing it and stop using it after a month or two. I don't want to think about all the Palm, VTOS and other PIM-type devices I obtained and never used prior to getting a PocketPC (which I use every day and always carry).

Of those that continue to use it beyond two months, 80% will be totally satisfied and use [only] the PIM funtions faithfully until broken or lost. Noone will remember what a Tunsten was by then. The market will be so different in five years that the repeat-buy aspect won't really register.

The remaining users will, over the next 5 years, will recognize the value of doing more with their device and seek a more powerful unit.
Of these, 1/3 (and rising as the five years pass) will discover PocketPCs and make the [enlightened] switch.
1/3 (and falling as the five years pass) will buy Sony devices for the name, styling, or entertainment device lure.
and 1/3 (and falling as the five years pass) will mindlessly buy a Palm brand.

This leaves about 30 thousand repeat purchases (over 5 years) resulting directly from original Zire sales. Not too worthwhile for that effect.

Now of course, 80% of Zire purchasers would not have bought any other model of PDA, so there are a 1/2 million more people than there would have been otherwise, carrying around a Palm device for PDA deficient people to see, and those people will most likely will end up with a Palm device. There is some definite value in this, and something PocketPC vendors would do well to note. Selling a greater quantity of a distinguishable device (certainly the Zire) is quite valuable to future sales.

From the PocketPC perspective, the down side from all this is that there are 870 thousand people out there that have received a $99 lesson that they do not need a PDA (of any type).