2004 MVP Summit Wrapup

[Ed Hansberry]

We have had a number of posts in various threads asking for details in what was discussed at the 2004 MVP Summit last week, and well, we are going to spill the beans!<br /><br />First, we saw several {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} and one {bleep} {bleep}. They were all running Windows Mobile {bleep} for {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} and had at least {bleep} {bleep} of RAM. The {bleep} {bleep} was perfect! I was totally amazed at the {bleep} {bleep} and {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} implementation. I was able to {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} network {bleep} {bleep}, {bleep} {bleep}, {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}, and {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20040412-summitwrapup.jpg" /><br /><b>Figure 1: {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}, {bleep} {bleep} and a{bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}, all from {bleep} {bleep}.</b><br /><br />Next, we got to talk to the development teams. We discussed {bleep} {bleep} and {bleep} plus a laundry list of new features, which include, but are not limited to:<br /><br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep}<br />• {bleep} {bleep} {bleep}<br /><br />I think you can see by the list above, {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} and {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} are worth waiting for.<br /><br /><!><i>Be honest. You knew the whole thing was NDA, right?</i> ;-)

[suhit]

You {bleep}. Stop playing with our {bleep}ing heads. :)

Suhit

[MacBirdie]

That's GREAT NEWS! I've been waiting for {bleep} {bleep} for sooo long. :mrgreen:

[Wiggster]

NDA stands for "No {bleep} Affirmations", eh?
:bad-words:






:mrgreen: Great post

[that_kid]

Hey Ed, Don't forget the {bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep} with the attached{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep} that will let you {bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}your{bleep}{bleep}to the{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}{bleep}. I thought that was the best {bleeping}thing I've ever seen.

[JustinGTP]

How {bleeping} immature :D

[carphead]

Was roadrunner there?

[JonnoB]

Thanks for all the great {bleep} news, I was wondering when I would be able to buy that new {bleep}.

[Chris Spera]

There are so many things wrong with that, I can't EVEN begin to {bleep}.

:D

[Zack Mahdavi]

Wow, I can't wait for these {bleep}in devices to make their appearance!

[garrans]

Ed, been a little inundated with the ubiquitous "what did you see at the MVP conference?" questions huh ?

[Kevin Jackson]

NDA = No {bleep} Answers

:D

[Gator5000e]

In all {bleepin"} seriousness, Jason had requested a list of items that we would like to see improved on or changed. I don't think it would be a violation of any bleepin NDA to let us know if that list was presented to MS and what their response was to that list. Especially if the responses were something like "that is a known problem we are looking into" or "that will be fixed" or something like that.

You guys willing to give us that much?

Thanks.

[Rob Borek]

In all {bleepin"} seriousness, Jason had requested a list of items that we would like to see improved on or changed. I don't think it would be a violation of any bleepin NDA to let us know if that list was presented to MS and what their response was to that list. Especially if the responses were something like "that is a known problem we are looking into" or "that will be fixed" or something like that.

Jason no doubt gave them the list. The responses, however, would be covered under NDA.

(speaking from experience)

[Ed Hansberry]

In all {bleepin"} seriousness, Jason had requested a list of items that we would like to see improved on or changed. I don't think it would be a violation of any bleepin NDA to let us know if that list was presented to MS and what their response was to that list. Especially if the responses were something like "that is a known problem we are looking into" or "that will be fixed" or something like that.

You guys willing to give us that much?
We spoke. They listened intently and asked probing questions. It would be a violation of the NDA to discuss the results of that converstation though. Sorry.

[Bill Gunn]

Of all of the things that Microsoft publicly announces, what percentage actually make it into a product? Now imagine what that percentage is for things that it will not publicly discuss. Now imagine why I'm not curious. :wink:

[baker]

Ed is {bleeping} so he does not have to tell us that ActiveSync is staying the same... :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

In all {bleepin"} seriousness, Jason had requested a list of items that we would like to see improved on or changed. I don't think it would be a violation of any bleepin NDA to let us know if that list was presented to MS and what their response was to that list.

I can tell you that I did my best to present as many of the issues as possible, and some are definitely on the roadmap to be addressed, but I'll be honest: there wasn't enough time in each session to really drill down and drive the points home (ten minutes at the end of a session with 40+ people made that difficult). There was also an ungodly amount of posts in that thread, which I should have expected, but it was a real challenge to even filter through them and pull out the content.

Still, I really appreciated everyone's input and you can rest assured a few of the more important ones (alarms!) were raised.

[T-Will]

Wow! Sounds like a great list of new features! :lol: I didn't read anything negative, so I'm guessing we're gonna see some nice new things with Pocket PC.

[jpaq]

So, what your saying is:

- Pocket {Bleep} still doesn't support {Bleep}s or {Bleep}s
- {Bleep} still doesn't {Bleep} {Bleep}s
- {Bleep} will continue to support one {Bleep}
- But we get a brand new {Bleep}!

[AZMark]

With all the beeping I take it they actually fixed alarms?

[possmann]

How {bleeping} {bleep}!

[Jacob]

This is exactly the kind of {BLEEP} {BLEEP} that I would expect from a {bleep}ing site like this!

:wink:

[quidproquo]

What tha' {bleep} ?! :lol:

[joelevi]

Was roadrunner there?

The Cable Internet company? ;)

Or the desert bird that says "Meep"?

On a serious note, even though you can't tell us the results of the list, can you tell us your general perceptions of how the list was received? Did they think we were a bunch of cry-babies? Were they glad? Indifferent?

[andbrown]

Because of violating his NDA in regards to the extremely secret new Binary Local Extended Electronic Productivity application, it is my sincere regret to inform Ed that he has been removed from the MVP program.

(just kidding, Ed... :twisted: )

[Kevin Jackson]

Because of violating his NDA in regards to the extremely secret new Binary Local Extended Electronic Productivity application, it is my sincere regret to inform Ed that he has been removed from the MVP program.

(just kidding, Ed... :twisted: )

Ed just couldn't keep his {bleep}ing mouth shut!

:wink:

[Mitch D]

"And that's when I shot him your Honour!"

:wink:

[sponge]

The {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} seems interesting. But what about {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} purple {bleep} {bleep} {bleep} monkey {bleep} dishwasher?

[Noel]

What I want to know .... who IS this { bLeEpInG } idiot!?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/2438.html

8O


Noel

[Paragon]

Two things that we did mention that Microsoft was totally surprised to hear there were problems with.....Activesync, and they had no idea the X was boken and would only minimize, not close applications. :D

I hope I didn't break my NDA Andrew? I spoke with Roberto and he said I could mention the X. :D :D :D

Dave

[huangzhinong]

I personally think the minimize button is much better than Ok botton. MS did the right thing. Replacing the minimizing button with close buttons make the OS completely single task and may lead data lose unexpectly.

Putting both minimzing buttons and close buttons side by side will make the interface ugly and can't be touched accurately by finger. As the MS guys pointed out, point and hold to close is not obvious to be found out by most users and they abandon it finally.

You guys can disagree with me, I think geeks can always find pocket plus and wisbar addressed this problem very well. For common users who don't care about minimizing or closing, minimizing is of course better.

I can bet MS won't change this button for ever and I am with them at this point.

Just my 2 cents.

[MacBirdie]

I can say from my experiences that LOTS of Pocket PC beginners or those of The Dark Side (http://www.palmsource.com) complain about the X actually minimizing the apps instead of closing them and they have to either go the 8-taps road (Start -> Settings -> System -> Memory -> Running Programs -> App To Close -> Stop -> OK) or get some third party apps to have such an elementary task done.
Thus it would be nice to have the X-tap-and-hold option to close apps anyway. If someone didn't want it, they wouldn't simply use it.
A little addition to the tap-n-hold training after the hard reset would be enough to tell new users about the feature.

[OSUKid7]

LOL...great wrapup. ;) But seriously, what all does the NDA cover? You're not allowed to say ANYTHING?? :( Guess I'll just have to wait. :|

[huangzhinong]

I can say from my experiences that LOTS of Pocket PC beginners or those of The Dark Side (http://www.palmsource.com) complain about the X actually minimizing the apps instead of closing them and they have to either go the 8-taps road (Start -> Settings -> System -> Memory -> Running Programs -> App To Close -> Stop -> OK) or get some third party apps to have such an elementary task done.
Thus it would be nice to have the X-tap-and-hold option to close apps anyway. If someone didn't want it, they wouldn't simply use it.
A little addition to the tap-n-hold training after the hard reset would be enough to tell new users about the feature.

I didn't meet many new PPC users complaining about this problem except here. Some of them are completely have no idea what's the function of the OK button and they don't care about it at all, just using PPC like using a Palm. Some people are using iTask or dell launcher to manager the task and close tasks too. Other advanced users use wisbar or pocket plus.

Yes, MS need put a better tasks manager in PPC, but about the X, leave it there and third party develpoer will take care of it. Even MS add the click and hold to close, Most people here will still install wisbar and most beginners will still refuse to use the click and hold. No difference, why bother?

[JonnoB]

I personally think the minimize button is much better than Ok botton. MS did the right thing. Replacing the minimizing button with close buttons make the OS completely single task and may lead data lose unexpectly.

Putting both minimzing buttons and close buttons side by side will make the interface ugly and can't be touched accurately by finger. As the MS guys pointed out, point and hold to close is not obvious to be found out by most users and they abandon it finally.

You guys can disagree with me, I think geeks can always find pocket plus and wisbar addressed this problem very well. For common users who don't care about minimizing or closing, minimizing is of course better.

I can bet MS won't change this button for ever and I am with them at this point.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree 100%. Except for the memory management problems with lots of apps running, this is the correct implementation. The icon could change (from X to something else) so that the expectations are correct, but to close the app is not the correct solution (IMO). Fixing how applications sort out memory and storage space is. I personally like Moto's approach with the 32/64mb division in the MPx.

[Duddy]

Here we go, yet another forum based cliche that will be widely used to it's limit within 1 week. That's why I love this community. 8)



Megatokyo Iz t00 l33t 4 j00. 0X

[Duddy]

Forgot to ask, when does the NDA end?

[daS]

LOL...great wrapup. ;) But seriously, what all does the NDA cover? You're not allowed to say ANYTHING?? :( Guess I'll just have to wait. :|
The NDA covers everything that is not already information available from other sources.

I typically try to error on the safe side and extend that to include anything that is not "officially" announced. That's because there are often lots of rumors on the net these days. For example, look at how long there has been information on an HP 6000 series - some rumors date back all the way to the release of the iPAQ 5400. (When we first saw the SIM slot behind the battery.) The latest images on the net don't look anything like the first devices. Now if someone knew something under NDA and disclosed it after seeing one of the rumors, that would only confirm what was, until then, just that - a rumor. We owe it to the companies that trust us with private information to avoid commenting until the company officially announces it (or unofficially agrees that the NDA no longer applies to that particular information.)

So what good does it do to give the MVPs any advanced information? There are a number of advantages:

First, we are able to provide early feedback from our knowledge of the community. For example, in at least one case, we were quite vocal about a difference of opinion regarding certain priorities. I can't say if our opinions changed Microsoft's priorities or not (because they didn't tell us) but I can say, without question, they listened and took what we had to say quite seriously.

Second, when we get information under NDA, we are better prepared for to provide the community with more detailed information as soon as an official announcement is made.

Finally, we are sometimes able to help figure out what parts of NDA material can/should be released, or how it can be edited to provide the users with the information they need, while still protecting the company's proprietary information.

As for when the NDA period ends: It's different for each specific case and ends when the material is made public, or the company indicates it's okay to disclose. (There is also a time limit, but it is so long as to be meaningless.)

[OSUKid7]

Thanks for the answer daS. :)

[Ed Hansberry]

Because of violating his NDA in regards to the extremely secret new Binary Local Extended Electronic Productivity application, it is my sincere regret to inform Ed that he has been removed from the MVP program.

(just kidding, Ed... :twisted: )
Oh sure, get 2,500 miles between us and you get all cocky... ;-)

[rip]

those are bleeping big devices, are there any bleeping bleeps that come with the bleep from bleep?

bleep...bleep 0X

[guinness]

Well that's (bleeping) great, but have they fixed the (bleeping) alarms yet? :twisted:

[ctmagnus]

You mean the alarms that go bleep?

[BTS]

That was the funniest {bleeping} thing I read all day. Thanks for the good laugh, Ed! :lol:

[Ed Hansberry]

You mean the alarms that go bleep?
Or that don't go bleep, as the case may be. 8O

[JustinGTP]

Take off the MSMobiles link, you are only helping them get some traffic! If you don't like them, don't support them, and I'm afraid that means posting the link!

[BevHoward]

I'm gonna be surprised....

...if I ever learn anything under NDA _before_ it's public info ;-)

Beverly Howard

And, I do pay attention!

[caywen]

bleep!

That counts as a post, right?

[that_kid]

I'm gonna be surprised....

...if I ever learn anything under NDA _before_ it's public info ;-)


I know how you feel :wink:

[pschultz]

MVPs: Can you tell us anything about the trip? Such as, don't you normally get to buy stuff very cheap at the company store? If so, what did you get?

[manywhere]

What I want to know .... who IS this { bLeEpInG } idiot!?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/2438.html
Someone trying to make up for not getting any, through whining and complaining about "breadcrumb"-problems... :roll:
Seriously, I don't know what the site's problem is, and I don't care either. However the site should stop giving the Windows Mobile community a bad image... :evil:

[daS]

MVPs: Can you tell us anything about the trip?
The weather in Seattle was nice. :mrgreen:

[theone3]

What I want to know .... who IS this { bLeEpInG } idiot!?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/2438.html

8O


Noel
(despite the fact that some MVPs are inept and not worth any money)
I'll tell you who's inept and not worth any money :roll:


Thanks for the best laugh I've had since April 2nd :mrgreen:

[kamikun]

I just keep looking at those photos and thinking to myself,
"Oh my {bleep}ing God, it's {bleep}ing full of stars."

I just hope handling one of those things doesn't fill me with the urge to bash someone's head in... :twisted:

/got nuthin'

[bnycastro]

Fixing how applications sort out memory and storage space is. I personally like Moto's approach with the 32/64mb division in the MPx.

Can anyone explain this? What is the 32/64MB Division JonnoB is reffering to? just curious...

Thanks in advance.

__________________________
Bny Castro

May the FORCE Be With You...

[Rudolf]

Fixing how applications sort out memory and storage space is. I personally like Moto's approach with the 32/64mb division in the MPx.

Can anyone explain this? What is the 32/64MB Division JonnoB is reffering to? just curious...

They have a different memory structure, where the program memory/storage memory ratio is not dynamically adjustable (via that slider thing). It has always 32MB program memory, for dynamc execution and 64MB (falsh) memory for storage.
This means also, that unlike any current pocketpc, a full batter drain will NOT erease your pockepc.

[bnycastro]

They have a different memory structure, where the program memory/storage memory ratio is not dynamically adjustable (via that slider thing). It has always 32MB program memory, for dynamc execution and 64MB (falsh) memory for storage.
This means also, that unlike any current pocketpc, a full batter drain will NOT erease your pockepc.

Thanks Rudolph

WOW 8O! That sounds fantastic!!! Hope it works though. Do you think 32 MB is enough to run multiple apps? Do you think this would cure the 32 process glitch that the O2 XDA II has??? Maybe they should make it 64(prog)/128(storage)MB hehehe :wink: Wait a minute... isn't flash memory always erased if the battery is drained or are you talking about a different kind of flash memory (maybe like the ones in sd or mmc cards?)? Hmmmm if Moto pulls this off successfully I might get a Moto MPx when it comes out :P

Hey :idea: why not have a 128 mb/ 2 or 4GB (toshiba mindrive )combination... ? or would it eat up too much power/cost too much?

[heliod]

Oh, there are already fixes for the 32 processes problems both for the iMate/QTek and for the T-Mobile MDA, released in the form of a ROM upgrade. Maybe O2 has released it as well, I don't remember. If not, I believe they will soon do because it improves the device's behaviour very significantly.

oh, and Ed, this was a {bleep}in' good post :lol:

[Christian]

Everyone can see that the Bleeps are just Photoshop mockups. Especially that second one. Really, I've come to expect better from this site.

And the Bleep is a brick! 8O

:lol:

[CR]

My goodness! You kiss your mother with that mouth, Ed?

[Rob Borek]

Forgot to ask, when does the NDA end?

Once released, or 5 years - whichever comes first. By that time, we'll be on Windows Mobile 2009 :mrgreen:

[huangzhinong]

Everyone can see that the Bleeps are just Photoshop mockups. Especially that second one. Really, I've come to expect better from this site.

And the Bleep is a brick! 8O

:lol:

exactly, I removed the first layer and saw the second layer in Photoshop. It told me breakfast is coffee(free), lunch is Chinese($9 each person).

[BevHoward]

From my perspective, the biggest change at this year's summit from last (my first) was that MS was listening. They were not only open to input, they were asking for it, and while some of the old "MVP's only complain" attitudes remain, the whole push this year was that "MVP's are valuable... Listen to the MVP's"

Some tough questions were asked and they were answered openly with supporting information for the path that MS is persuing... I actually saw one current opinion in Mobile Devices altered by our input.... will it get action? No clue, just that humans were involved and humans responded on both sides.

_Everything_ was presented as NDA, so we don't really have any option to share anything that has not been release through other channels, but I think that it's probably ok to say that we saw a few positive things that we feel are in the PPC's future because of our incessant pounding of MS with significant user issues... and that's _very_ different from last year.

>> Free Stuff &lt;&lt;

More last year than this, but even if Jason totaled up the coin value for all the extra goodies that he receives for this prime site being as visible as it is, I'm guessing that his return per hour would total up to migrant labor wage levels.

Personally, my total "haul" (if memory serves) from this summit was a nice jacket, bowling shirt, dop kit, two tee's, clock/calendar, pen, pen light and a tire gauge... and a huge amount of invaluable information and associations... a pretty damm good return from my perspective.

I've gotten two pda's since my first award, and being as subjective as possible, think that the raw amount of tech support and product feedback that I have given for those specific devices far exceeds the cost of those two items.

For me, the biggest point is the "thank you" that's implicit in the award.

Beverly Howard

[KenClunk]

I'm glad that they were listening.
Afterall listening and doing what we want makes them even more money.

[JvanEkris]

What I want to know .... who IS this { bLeEpInG } idiot!?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/2438.html
8O

NoelIndeed,

Giving Bart Martens a thumbs down. He's only a community-leader of a site with 25.000 members and then saying his influence is only local?????? Talking about a US-centered attitude.......

Jaap

[Tom W.M.]

They have a different memory structure, where the program memory/storage memory ratio is not dynamically adjustable (via that slider thing). It has always 32MB program memory, for dynamc execution and 64MB (falsh) memory for storage.
This means also, that unlike any current pocketpc, a full batter drain will NOT erease your pockepc.
Thanks Rudolph

WOW 8O! That sounds fantastic!!! Hope it works though. Do you think 32 MB is enough to run multiple apps? Do you think this would cure the 32 process glitch that the O2 XDA II has??? Maybe they should make it 64(prog)/128(storage)MB hehehe :wink: Wait a minute... isn't flash memory always erased if the battery is drained or are you talking about a different kind of flash memory (maybe like the ones in sd or mmc cards?)? Hmmmm if Moto pulls this off successfully I might get a Moto MPx when it comes out :P
That sounds just like the Casio BE-300's setup—16MB Flash and 16MB RAM. The problem is that if things get corrupted, it’s very hard to deal with. Also (at least in the BE-300 and ePods) there is no simple way to restore to a clean, working configuration, like a hard reset. With the ePods, your configuration can survive a hard reset. Overall, I prefer the security of knowing that my device is impossible to permanently screw up to the security of knowing my data will last without batteries.

[Tom W.M.]

Megatokyo Iz t00 l33t 4 j00. 0X
f001, j00r 1gn0r4nc3 5howz. I 1uv Megatokyo.

[nutshell]

As soon as {bleep} and {bleep} {bleep} release their new {bleep} you can be sure that Nutshell will have a pda case that fits. :D