Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpctools.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1299' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpctools.com/module...iewtopic&t=1299</a><br /><br /></div>"A software developer answering a support question on a public forum has spilled some beans about the next version of the Windows Mobile operating system. This developer has identified a prototype version he is running labelled "Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition, Version 4.21.1088 (build 14049)" This information is in line with speculations that have been circulating that this update would not be a major upgrade but rather a refresh providing VGA support and screen rotation. The developer also confirms that the screen is rotated using the new SETTINGS > SYSTEM > SCREEN applet."

[Will T Smith]

With CF storage surpassing 4GB, PocketPC 2003 SE needs support for up to 16GB devices.

[ctitanic]

" The developer also confirms that the screen is rotated using the new SETTINGS > SYSTEM > SCREEN applet."

Well, this will cause a revolution. We will have to rewrite a lote of our code to make our programs work in both orientations, at least all that can be changed to work in both ways.

[T-Will]

So only 4-6 taps to rotate the screen? That's not bad... :roll: :wink:

Hopefully there will be a way to quickly rotate available, or a way to have the screen rotation set per application.

Also, remember 98SE was probably the best 9x release before XP, so hopefully WM2003SE will be a very solid release before we get a new mobile OS release/update.

[jkendrick]

So only 4-6 taps to rotate the screen? That's not bad... :roll: :wink:

Hopefully there will be a way to quickly rotate available, or a way to have the screen rotation set per application.

Also, remember 98SE was probably the best 9x release before XP, so hopefully WM2003SE will be a very solid release before we get a new mobile OS release/update.

Or an exisiting utility that will do that for you.. :D

[eustts]

If WM2003 SE only adds screen resolution and rotation, then I would think that MS has missed the mark on this second edition.

WM2003SE needs to fix the outstanding issues first. :!:

[jkendrick]

I'm sure there'll be a slew of fixes in it like they always do but also issues that are not.

[Enderet]

Ill be happy with this "SE", as long as they also give us PPCs that are better than the current batch of 400mhz PPCs.

[gohtor]

" The developer also confirms that the screen is rotated using the new SETTINGS > SYSTEM > SCREEN applet."

Well, this will cause a revolution. We will have to rewrite a lote of our code to make our programs work in both orientations, at least all that can be changed to work in both ways.

I agree. I may be wrong about this but i believe vs2003.net does not offer forms created for ppc to have their fields dynamically sizable and locked (left/right/top/bottom). this would help in case of screen rotation. On the other hand, perhaps all applications are expected to write forms for exactly 2 different screen sizes. kinda defeats the purpose of ce.net but certainly makes for a optimized ppc experience.

[jkendrick]

I'm not a developer but I have been using the Toshiba e800 since it's release. Virtually every application with the exception of games pretty much works fine now in both VGA and landscape. Very few apps have trouble with the screen orientation. More apps exhibit difficulty due to the small font sizes in VGA than in landscape. The programs that allow user font size selection don't have any problems at all.

I guess I don't see this as a big development issue unless the program is a heavy graphic program like PocketTV, PocketMVP, etc.

[alex_kac]

Perhaps there will be more info provided at some point from MS? Trust me - although I like to bash MS as much as any normal Mac user does ( :wink: ), I don't believe MS will leave you hanging here. I also prophesy that there will be many people angry and many people happy about the changes...change always does that to people :)

[joelevi]

... remember 98SE was probably the best 9x release before XP, so hopefully WM2003SE will be a very solid release before we get a new mobile OS release/update.

Something else to consider, WM2003SE is looking more and more like it will not just be an update, but an upgrade that we'll have to purchase if we want the new features.

What leads me to beleive this? (1) The naming convention, 98SE was a separate purchase from 98, (2) HP just released EUU2 ROM updates for the 2200 and 1455(?) Pocket PCs, why do this if WM2003SE is going to be released within the next few months? After all, HP has identified as known bugs several things that their EUU2 fixes. Undoubtedly WM2003SE will fix some of these same bugs... but HP cannot in good conscience force users to pay for bug fixes, right?

Just some brainstorming...

[T-Will]

Yeah, I'm guessing it won't be a free upgrade. I wonder what the minimum requirements will be for WM2003SE?

[joelevi]

...I wonder what the minimum requirements will be for WM2003SE?

IMHO, any WM2003 device should run it and be able to (at the very least) switch from portrait to landscape (I realize that I probably won't be able to do VGA resolution on my iPaq 4155).

Sure, it'd be nice if WM2002 devices could also qualify for the upgrade, and I'm sure most devices could run it, but, correct me if I'm wrong, but our OEMs are going to have to offer this upgrade for each device for us to be able to get it, right?

If that's the case, that means that (based on history) Toshiba users are COMPLETELY out of luck, HP users should have to wait until sometime in 2005 (again, based on history)... any users of other deivces wanna pipe up?

[jkendrick]

From what I've seen this update will be a ROM update and thus must come from each manufacturer.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I would guess that Dell users should get it within a month of release, which would not be too bad, with the UK coming along a month later, which would be bad. :wink: A price of up to £25 would be fair for this upgrade - IF - it gives us on the fly screen rotation and a few other goodies.

[Jonathon Watkins]

(I realize that I probably won't be able to do VGA resolution on my iPaq 4155).

Hmmm, software based retrospective hardware upgrades. My favourite! :wink:

I doubt it will do VGA emulation - assuming that is what you meant.

You need something like NYDITOT for that.

[yawanag]

WM2003SE needs to fix the outstanding issues first. :!:[/quote]

Hasn't anybody heard the expletives I've been screaming since I upgraded on Tuesday? I'm still searching for programs that I loved and are no longer compatible with WM2003. :devilboy:

[jkendrick]

Looks like the update will be announced next week according to this item on C/NET:

http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5175544.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news

First time we ever got mentioned on C/NET!

[Ethan]

I'm not a developer but I have been using the Toshiba e800 since it's release. Virtually every application with the exception of games pretty much works fine now in both VGA and landscape. Very few apps have trouble with the screen orientation. More apps exhibit difficulty due to the small font sizes in VGA than in landscape. The programs that allow user font size selection don't have any problems at all.

I guess I don't see this as a big development issue unless the program is a heavy graphic program like PocketTV, PocketMVP, etc.

You're missing a MAJOR issue here. The e800 forces you to reset to switch orientation or resolution. Yes, most applications handle these circumstances if they launch in that new environment. But the new generation of devices MUST support dynamic changing of resolution or orientation. We've seen MPx do this already in the online movies.

So, applications must therefore be able to handle changing orientation DYNAMICALLY and shift around their dialog boxes or whatever to fit, on the fly. I don't think most current apps will work properly. They are simply not expecting to have the rug pulled out from under them like that. So, the new PPC probably will break a lot more apps then the e800 will and force new versions of everything. I'd imagine this will be similar to the switch from MIPS to ARM.

Ethan

[joelevi]

(I realize that I probably won't be able to do VGA resolution on my iPaq 4155).

...I doubt it will do VGA emulation - assuming that is what you meant.

You need something like NYDITOT for that.

Yes, that's what I meant, but not what I'm after... I've tried NYDITOT and just can't get over the way they switch resolutions... All I want is simple tap tap and I'm in 240x480 portrait, tap tap and I'm in 480x240 landscape.

I may be an idiot, but my experiences with NYDITOT (in this regard) only allow you to swap landscape and portrait, 240x480 portrait and 240x480 landscape. That isn't what I'm after. I want to have a "regular orientation" with regular apps, then when I "hook up" my IR keyboard, I want to quick-swap to landscape... but be able to use the enitre width of the screen... Nyditot only let me use 240 wide (and I should have had 480wide).

Now again, I might be an idiot, but I couldn't figure out how to do it differently than that... Is it a limit of NYDITOT or am I an idiot? ;)

[joelevi]

From what I've seen this update will be a ROM update and thus must come from each manufacturer.

Yes, I think you're right. Just as an upgrade from Windows 98 to 98SE required a reinstall of the OS.

[orol]

From what I've seen this update will be a ROM update and thus must come from each manufacturer.

Yes, I think you're right. Just as an upgrade from Windows 98 to 98SE required a reinstall of the OS.

pluls one had to buy it too ..

[Kevin Daly]

Until more details are available we should not assume that this update is purely limited to providing support for landscape and VGA - I have noticed in the past that people and vendors tend to mention only those features they are interested in or think their customers or target audience would be interested in. For instance, feature lists for Windows Mobile 2003 typically do not mention the fact that it has the .NET Compact Framework in ROM, which to me as a developer on the other hand is of huge significance. Of course tomorrow someone from Microsoft could come out and say "Yep, that's all there is".
Secondly, people concerned about general application compatibility issues should not use the shift from Pocket PC 2002 to Windows Mobile 2003 as a guide, because while there was little change on the surface there, under the covers there was a fundamental switch from an OS built on Windows CE 3 to one built on Windows CE.NET (an unfortunate name), the most significant change since the launch of the Pocket PC platform.
Thirdly, for anyone thinking as some of us apparently do "Oh no, I'm going to have to run out and buy new versions of all my software", well, I'd like to point out that while it may be necessary to do that if you really feel that every program you have installed must support landscape mode, in all likelihood most applications that currently work in portrait mode under Windows Mobile 2003 will still work in portrait mode under what we can for the sake of argument call Windows Mobile 2003 SE.

[jonathanchoo]

So only 4-6 taps to rotate the screen? That's not bad... :roll: :wink:

Hopefully there will be a way to quickly rotate available, or a way to have the screen rotation set per application.

Also, remember 98SE was probably the best 9x release before XP, so hopefully WM2003SE will be a very solid release before we get a new mobile OS release/update.

Yes and Windows Me that came out after that was the worst Windows OS ever. Why did Microsoft branch out the Windows Mobile software is beyond me. To me, they should have given the OS the ability to scale resolutions so on smartphones 240x320 can be used while on PDAs with more resources, ability to scale 320x480 or 480x640.

4-6 taps to rotate the screen? On the T3, its done on the fly with one tap. Still it could be useful.

I just ordered a h4150 because I miss mobile gaming. I wonder now if HP will offer a free upgrade similar to the PPC2002/2003 upgrades. Should I cancel and wait for HP to give a commitment?

[possmann]

I hope that the friggin alram thing is fixed. Screen rotation is a great touch - and increased resolution - very cool. Although I won't be able to take advantage of that with my little 1935, but it's nice to know that things are moving forward in development :lol:

[RobertCF]

I gotta say, I'm not terribly enthused about the update. I played around with the various landscape utilities, and it's just not a feature I find useful at all. As far as I'm concerned the PDA was designed to be held a certain way, and therefore used a certain way. Turning the silly thing on it's side is just cumbersome and doesn't really gain enough screen real estate to make difference. And while I've not had the alarm problem that many have had, I suppose if the Second Edition fixes that one thing it would be worth it. But the landscape feature? Useless to me.

[Alexkass]

If WM2003 SE only adds screen resolution and rotation, then I would think that MS has missed the mark on this second edition.

WM2003SE needs to fix the outstanding issues first. :!:

The update, to be known as Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition, is based on a Windows CE .Net core, but adds a variety of improvements, according to a source familiar with the situation. The new OS is expected to improve support for larger, VGA screens and screen rotation, among other features, according to developer comments posted in a Microsoft forum and cited by handheld enthusiast site PocketPCTools.

:D