Mp3 player or iPaq

[acetuk]

Ok... this is a little bit of a listing of my current dilemma with a question included so please bare with me a little!

I am really starting to get back into my music... big time! Over the last few years my total enjoyment in music was having something on in the background in my car whilst I was driving. However I have been travelling a lot due to my job and have been spending most of that time on planes being completely brain dead board.

So this last time I put a couple of cds onto my compact flash card on my PPC (an iPaq 2210) and listened to them during the week away... fantastic! Other than the headphones I had at the time were poor and let in a lot of background noise I found the trip very relaxing - all thanks to having some music to listen to.

Since then I have started putting a lot of music onto the two compact lfash cards I have for my iPaq and have been trying out a few audio players (Pocket Player seems to be my choice but I'm still looking around).

I have also just spent a small fortune (for me at least) on some Sony headphones which are amazing!

So I get to my point... I have a little money (approx. £150) to spend and it looks like something to help with my music experience is going to consume it!! I have been weighing up the pros and cons with using my iPaq for audio and seem to have got to the following -

Pros
Only one device to carry with me
Already own it
Flexible if standards change and better software released

Cons
MP3 players offer better battery life
Not so worried about dropping / breaking it
Wouldn't want to work out with my iPaq strapped to my arm!

My iPaq is too important for it to go wrong which is why I am considering a separate unit.

Does anyone have any comments on this? Does my iPaq sound as good as say the iRiver iFP-390T? Are there any really outstanding mp3 players out there I should consider?

I have only really looked at flash players but a HDD player is an option - especially as when I then travel I wouldn't need to worry about what music to take as it would already be pre-loaded. For working out I would then probably look at a later date for one of the really cheap no-name players to cover my needs.

As long as the player can cope with mp3 and WMA I am open to any offers. If the player is worth it then I might be able to add to the funds available!! :D

Thanks.

[WyattEarp]

MP3 players are nice for short commutes on a train or bus IMHO but you could use your iPAQ for that. It has served me well for that purpose. Driving or flying on the other hand would better be served by an iPod or similar device with a large amount of memory. This will cause you to carry two devices but you won't need memory cards to store music that won't fit on the iPAQ's limited memory.

That's my 2 cents.

[ctmagnus]

Something else to consider is that (depending on headphones and quality of ripped music, among other things) the iPaq will quite often sound better than a dedicated audio player due to the audio-processing circuitry in each.

[JTWise]

I had been using my Axim of all my digital music but recently bought a Dell DJ 15 gig palyer (US$199). I noticed that I kept buying larger and larger cards for my Axim so that I could carry more and more music. Plus, in trying to limit the amount of MB/song, I was using 64kps encoding.

I must say that I have used my MP3 (well, WMA actually) player much more than the Axim. I hate carrying around two devices at times, but there are plenty of times that I would want to listen to music but not need my Axim, so at those times I am only carrying one device anyway.

Biggest Advantages to MP3:
- Size. I have all my music encoded at WMA 160kps and still have 4 gig free on my DJ. Since I do not have the space issue and burned at higher quality, everything sounds much better. Plus, I would go broke buying memory cards for all that stuff.
- Battery life - Dell claims 12 hours on a charge, many users state 14-16 hours.

If you are really in to your music, I would spring for a HD driven player. FYI I went for the DJ over the Ipod for price/GB and for the ability to play WMA files. You might want to look at the iRiver and Creative Nomad Zen as well. Both rated very well.

[acetuk]

I think that you are all thinking along a similar line to what I have been.

I have two compact flash cards fro my iPaq now but I know that I'll buy more - and I am also cutting back on the quality so that I can have quantity. Which I am not happy doing.

I have been running a number of tests tonight using dbpoweramp to convert a favourite song of mine (ripped straight off the cd to a wave file) in various formats - ogg and wma sound good to me, ogg at setting 3 with wma at 50VBR. That is with the 'got to keep the files small so that I can get more on the cards' attitude which a HDD player would remove.

Ideally I would like a player that can also do Ogg (I think I'll try it for a while based on my limited trial tonight) and is HDD based. But how durable are the HDD players - everything about my PC building experience tells me not to drop or shake a hard drive?

ctmagnus - I am interested in your post about the iPaq sounding better. Is that correct? I only ask as I assumed it would be the other way around as the player will be a dedicated unit.

Thanks for the replies so far.

[Janak Parekh]

IIdeally I would like a player that can also do Ogg (I think I'll try it for a while based on my limited trial tonight) and is HDD based. But how durable are the HDD players - everything about my PC building experience tells me not to drop or shake a hard drive?
Reasonably durable, because the hard drive isn't spinning all the time. It's about the same risk as dropping a PDA.

ctmagnus - I am interested in your post about the iPaq sounding better. Is that correct? I only ask as I assumed it would be the other way around as the player will be a dedicated unit.
In general, the iPAQs have amongst the best audio output of any portable device I've used. The cheap MP3 players don't. The high-end (incl. HD) players are comparable to the iPAQ, although you don't have as much flexibility in your equalizer.

--janak

[Fishie]

Ive owned several Ipaqs and up till now the best quality MP3 I heard on any device was on my recently lost Ipaq 2215, I recently got the Toshiba e800 and man that sound is insanely good, no MP3 player comes close.

[Janak Parekh]

Ive owned several Ipaqs and up till now the best quality MP3 I heard on any device was on my recently lost Ipaq 2215, I recently got the Toshiba e800 and man that sound is insanely good, no MP3 player comes close.
You know, Julie of The Gadgeteer said the same thing. 8O I haven't even tried playing music through my e800, since I carry an iPod; I'll have to give it a spin. Thanks for the heads-up.

--janak

[arnage2]

tip: dont buy an ipod. The battery life sucks alot more than pn a ppc.

Solution: Buy a 512 or 1gb cf card, and play music untill your heart's content. Turing off the screen will increase your battery life, and buying a screen cover will make you less nervous while carrying it around.

if i had known how much an ipod sucks, i would have bought a 5gb pcmcia hard drive for my ipaq.

[Janak Parekh]

tip: dont buy an ipod. The battery life sucks alot more than pn a ppc.
:confused totally: You're saying you get more than 8 hours of music playback on your Pocket PC? Do you have an extended battery for it?

And, personally, I don't think my iPod sucks. ;)

--janak

[ctmagnus]

In general, the iPAQs have amongst the best audio output of any portable device I've used. The cheap MP3 players don't. The high-end (incl. HD) players are comparable to the iPAQ, although you don't have as much flexibility in your equalizer.

--janak

fwiw, I recently aquired a set of Sennheiser PX 200 headphones. I find that they sound awesome with my iPaq but are rather muddy with my NJB3. I may have to tweak the equalizer on it, but my MDR-EX70LP's sounded equally good on it and my iPaq.

[acetuk]

So this is how far I am in my thinking at the moment -

Buy a dedicated HDD unit. This will cost quite a lot of money (considering I already have my iPaq) but will give me mass storage in comparison to the flash cards I have for my iPaq. It will also give me a second unit to not have to worry about my iPaq with.

Sound should be about as good as my iPaq based on what is being said here so that is good.

Is there a prefered HDD unit to buy - the ipod really doesn't do it for me at the moment! I would like a fair few hours of use before needing to recharge the unit.

Alternatively I can spend the money on a large flash card (or two) and just use my iPaq. This leaves me with one device to carry but in turn only one device that I would rely on for everything.

What is the current largest compact flash card I can get that will work with the 2210 and are there any prefered makes?

[Janak Parekh]

Buy a dedicated HDD unit. This will cost quite a lot of money (considering I already have my iPaq) but will give me mass storage in comparison to the flash cards I have for my iPaq. It will also give me a second unit to not have to worry about my iPaq with.
Er, ignore my previous response here -- it didn't make any sense. :oops:

Anyway, there are the Rio (www.rioaudio.com), iRiver (www.iriver.com), and Creative Nomad (www.nomadworld.com) units, amongst others. :) What don't you like about the iPod -- no WMA/Ogg support? The Rio and the iRiver support both, I believe.

--janak

[ctmagnus]

Is there a prefered HDD unit to buy - the ipod really doesn't do it for me at the moment! I would like a fair few hours of use before needing to recharge the unit.

If you don't mind the bulk, the Nomad Jukebox 3 (http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox3/) has room for a second battery, offering up to 22 hours of continuous playback.

[JonnoB]

I use my 2215 wrapped in a Vaja case in my pocket to listen to music. With the 1GB CF card inserted, I never run out of music to listen to. I hate carrying around multiple devices and do because I can never find one that does everything I want it to. There is light at the end of the tunnel however, the MPx... :drool: I can't wait!

[acetuk]

Thanks for the reply Janak.

What I meant by a dedicated HDD unit was something like an ipod or similar.

I love the idea of having 20gb of music with me in a separate device to my iPaq although I have to say that at the beginning of starting this thread I was going for a flash based solution.

So this leads to my final big question... what device should I go for?

[Janak Parekh]

What I meant by a dedicated HDD unit was something like an ipod or similar.
Right -- I updated my post to reflect that. I list a number of alternatives there. It really depends on your featureset -- what do you need?

--janak

[wizardmaster2k]

the ipod is a sweet devise.... but the INTERNAL battery doesnt last more than a year until it looses charge. that is 100 to replace every year or so... thats crazy. the ipaq has a removable batt and does more than an ipod. i am with the rest of you on the one devise issue. im looking to get a small ppc (1945 or 4155) and use as mp3 as well as PIM and multimedia devise (internet/video) if i go to gym, ill just use the headphones and watch TV or use the ipaq cause of the small size.

[acetuk]

In terms of the ipod, for some reason it really doesn't do it for me.

I have been looking at a couple of websites and these two players look good -
iRiver iHP120 20GB for £244 (from Amazon UK)
Rio Karma 20Gb for £279 (from Amazon UK)

Alternatively there seems to be this bargain -
Xclef HD-500 Jukebox 40gd for £229 (from Advanced MP3 Players)

Are these recommended? I really like the Rio whereas the iRiver looks a little bit dated - not that this matters, it is the sound that I am interested in.

Any comments from the forum will be appreciated.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[ctmagnus]

Another alternative is to get a nice, sturdy case to protect your iPaq. Titanium should do the trick ;)

[Janak Parekh]

the ipod is a sweet devise.... but the INTERNAL battery doesnt last more than a year until it looses charge. that is 100 to replace every year or so... thats crazy.
No, it lasts quite a bit longer than a year given most people's experiences.

the ipaq has a removable batt and does more than an ipod.
But it doesn't hold 20+GB of music.

Are these recommended? I really like the Rio whereas the iRiver looks a little bit dated - not that this matters, it is the sound that I am interested in.
The iHP-120 is indeed dated. Look at iRiver's iHP-140 -- quite a bit more compact. The Rio is also quite slick. I haven't used both, but I've heard good things about both of them. Oh, and then there's the Dell DJ, although I'm less keen on it because it has no Ogg support.

--janak

[Jereboam]

The supposition that the iPod battery lasts less than a year is quite ridiculous! As with every other li-ion battery on the planet it starts to degrade the moment it is manufactured but it is no worse or better than any other. Look after it, charge it properly (as in try not to fully discharge it too often) and it will last for years.

Personally I do too much that is critical with my iPaq to consider using it as my main music gadget as well, even with a replaceable battery.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I own a 2nd generation 10GB iPod, while some of my friends own the 10, 15, and 20GB 3rd generation iPods. We all love them. They're small, the interface is very intuitive, and the scroll wheel is something from heaven. It's easy to scroll through your songs, plus you can charge and sync your tunes through one cable.

iTunes is also an awesome application. Take a look at an iPod, or the new iPod mini. I think you'll find that it's a great player.

I keep mp3s on my Pocket PC, but I can generally only get a few hours of battery life out of the iPaq. For long trips, I always end up carrying the iPod.

Hope this helps!

[Trimac20]

The ipod is perhaps the most overrated of Apple's creations. For one, it lacks an FM Tuner (absolutely essential in my opinion), voice recorder, and a lot of other things that should come standard. No wonder they make you pay in gold bullions for the accessories. Who heard of paying up to $50 for a sound recorder?
In my opinion if you're looking for an MP3 jukebox, avoid the common ipod and Creative Nomad. Models like the iriver HP100, HP120 and HP140, the Dell and Rio are all good alternatives. Although a tad lacking on software functionality, they allow you to play WMA, WAV, OGG.etc directly stream from the inbuilt tuner (as well as from external music sources like CD, PC.etc for the iriver). The iriver's even include a new joystick.

[Zack Mahdavi]

The ipod is perhaps the most overrated of Apple's creations. For one, it lacks an FM Tuner (absolutely essential in my opinion), voice recorder, and a lot of other things that should come standard. No wonder they make you pay in gold bullions for the accessories. Who heard of paying up to $50 for a sound recorder?
In my opinion if you're looking for an MP3 jukebox, avoid the common ipod and Creative Nomad. Models like the iriver HP100, HP120 and HP140, the Dell and Rio are all good alternatives. Although a tad lacking on software functionality, they allow you to play WMA, WAV, OGG.etc directly stream from the inbuilt tuner (as well as from external music sources like CD, PC.etc for the iriver). The iriver's even include a new joystick.

You may be right, but most of those products don't offer the whole experience. Most of those use USB 2, they don't offer you the option of using Firewire as well. So you're stuck to plugging them into an outlet to charge the players. They don't feature tight integration with an awesome music player, and their size isn't nearly as small as the iPods. I admit, the iRiver is very nice, but even the joystick is not nearly as functional as the scroll wheel on the iPod. I think the iPod is worth every dime you pay for it, although you can get a nice player for a good price if you go with another brand.

[Janak Parekh]

zkmusa, good points; the dual-FW and USB2 was a big win for me. You've also got the cross-platform support, and perhaps the best bundled jukebox in iTunes -- it runs circles around WMP and MusicMatch when it comes to music synchronization. Not to mention I can fit it in my pocket with my wallet in the same pocket, so my Pocket PC Phone and keys fit in the other one. :)

Also, what's wrong with the Nomads? Creative has given the units decent support, and the Jukebox Zen NXes are closest to iPod in formfactor. As for the iRiver, I was unimpressed with the joystick -- it's small and, while it has feedback, it's relatively difficult to navigate in my opinion.

Nevertheless, the best place to discuss this further is Digital Media Thoughts (www.digitalmediathoughts.com) now; we've been discussing this and some other issues. :D

--janak

[Zack Mahdavi]

Also, what's wrong with the Nomads? Creative has given the units decent support, and the Jukebox Zen NXes are closest to iPod in formfactor. As for the iRiver, I was unimpressed with the joystick -- it's small and, while it has feedback, it's relatively difficult to navigate in my opinion.

Nevertheless, the best place to discuss this further is Digital Media Thoughts (www.digitalmediathoughts.com) now; we've been discussing this and some other issues. :D

janak: I must say, digital media thoughts is a really cool site! If you keep the content up, that site will also be very successful. I can imagine it being another DPReview.

Regarding the Nomads, the reason why I didn't consider them is because I don't know much about the Zens. I've never physically played with one to know much about it. The Muvo (4GB model) is absolutely incredible, however. I really like it, although I wish it had a bigger screen. Also, this more of a personal choice, but I prefer the long, rectangular shape to the square shape of the MuVo. However, if I were to buy a mini-hard drive, I think I'd pick the MuVo over the iPod Mini, just for the sake of price.

[Janak Parekh]

Regarding the Nomads, the reason why I didn't consider them is because I don't know much about the Zens.
Wasn't asking you, was asking the previous poster who seemed not to like them. ;)

--janak

[Palm Cow]

I can get 6 hours of playback on my e550G! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, if you're not going to be near a power outlet for a while, go ahead and go with whatever MP3 player. My friends have had good experiences with the Rio's. Whatever your instincts tell you.

[dgage]

You could always buy the 4 GB Muvo which has a 4 GB compact flash Microdrive in it. Then you would have the option to use the Muvo as intended or take the Microdrive out and put it in your PDA. I am in a similar predicament as you in trying to figure out what to do. I am seriously considering buying the Muvo and taking out the 4 GB Microdrive.

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/darktips/story/0,24330,3597773,00.html

There has been talk of the drives being soldered but as far as I know this is a complete hoax. Users have bought their Muvos directly from Creative Labs and as of this past week, I could find no mention of someone that received a unit without a removeable microdrive. Further, users were actually putting in regular compact flash memory to use with the Muvo although I believe that requires a firmware download.

David

[Zack Mahdavi]

There has been talk of the drives being soldered but as far as I know this is a complete hoax. Users have bought their Muvos directly from Creative Labs and as of this past week...

Are you sure they're talking about the current MuVos? I've read reports that Hitachi is close to releasing a new embedded drive technology that would make the drive be embedded on the board. Have you read something else?

[dgage]

Everything I have read points to that being a rumor. There was even someone who put out a FAKE picture of the drive being soldered in. As of this time, and I did search a lot, that just seems to be a rumor. Probably one put out by Hitachi since they are losing their shirts. Of course, if they would pay attention to supply and demand, they would notice they could move a lot more if the price were around $300.

My guess is that this might eventually happen but it takes a lot of time to modify an assembly line and the Muvos have only been out since January. Both Hitachi and Creative Labs or whoever is making and assembling these devices would have some major work and cost to redo an assembly line. Not something that could happen that quick. As of now, they may be working on it and until then, they are probably limiting supply to Creative Labs which is why the Muvo is sold out everywhere. Then again, the iPod Mini uses an IDE interface for their 4 GB card so maybe just Creative Labs needs to modify their assembly line.

David

[Zack Mahdavi]

You're absolutely right. I'm sure that the embedded technology will be used on future models, but not the current MuVos.