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View Full Version : Vulcan's MiniPC Evolves


Janak Parekh
02-16-2004, 06:00 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.flipstartpc.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.flipstartpc.com/</a><br /><br /></div>Looks like Vulcan's still working on their MiniPC. They've redone the product and the website. It's now called the FlipStart. I still don't think it's a PDA replacement, but it looks potentially like a very handy pocket companion.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040216-VulcanFlipStart.jpg" /><br /><br />Specs are similar to the OQO: 1GHz processor, 256MB of RAM, 30GB disk. I have to say, though, I prefer this clamshell form factor. Unfortunately, it too is not yet available. Come on, guys, start giving us realistic release dates!

lisantica
02-16-2004, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the link.
I went ahead and reserved one :)

Kati Compton
02-16-2004, 06:27 PM
Cool. This (like the OQO) isn't exactly something I *need*, nor could it replace my current desktop and/or laptop. But it sure would be fun to have. Plus, the clam-shell keyboard looks much more comfortable and useful than the OQO's...

Mitch D
02-16-2004, 06:40 PM
It's a really neat lookin device and I think it would meet alot of peoples need. Would I like one? Well sure I would... who wouldn't? Do I need one? Nope... but what does need have to do with it? :wink:

opus
02-16-2004, 06:51 PM
The ultimate device with everything I need. Prediction: it will ship with a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever :puppydogeyes:.

-- Opus

jeasher
02-16-2004, 06:51 PM
I may buy something like this in two or three years. It will replace my current laptop and will act as my PDA. I'm not sold on the idea of a PDA/phone, but I do like the idea of a PDA/laptop. They key would be performance that is acceptable and a pricetag of the unit including all the accessories for under $2000.

Kati Compton
02-16-2004, 07:15 PM
I may buy something like this in two or three years. It will replace my current laptop and will act as my PDA. I'm not sold on the idea of a PDA/phone, but I do like the idea of a PDA/laptop. They key would be performance that is acceptable and a pricetag of the unit including all the accessories for under $2000.
My only problem with that is needing it to boot faster than a laptop, and be able to wake itself (and me) up with alarms...

jeasher
02-16-2004, 07:21 PM
I may buy something like this in two or three years. It will replace my current laptop and will act as my PDA. I'm not sold on the idea of a PDA/phone, but I do like the idea of a PDA/laptop. They key would be performance that is acceptable and a pricetag of the unit including all the accessories for under $2000.
My only problem with that is needing it to boot faster than a laptop, and be able to wake itself (and me) up with alarms...

Can't your cell phone wake you up?

Kati Compton
02-16-2004, 07:33 PM
My only problem with that is needing it to boot faster than a laptop, and be able to wake itself (and me) up with alarms...
Can't your cell phone wake you up?[/quote]
I don't have a cell phone that syncs with Outlook. I put my appointments into my PDA.

doc
02-16-2004, 07:49 PM
I'm guessing that the LID module (http://www.flipstartpc.com/aboutproduct_features_lidmodule.asp) on the top/bottom has this alarm functionality.

ricksfiona
02-16-2004, 07:56 PM
It looks too much like a niche product, especially with the comments here... Which spells DOOM for the product.

I like it for the screen and storage... It could be a nice DV player and still have a lot of PC functionality... But you need to use the keyboard for data input rather than the screen, which I see as limiting.

I'm a little concerned about the hard drive though... But then I think about the iPod and I haven't heard of any complaints about hard drive issues.

Last but not least: cost. I think this device has a shot if it's in the $500 - $600 range. But they gotta get their marketing down so that the applications for this device are clear to the consumer. Confuse the consumer or make them think about the purchase and your product is dead. Remember Smart Displays?

Perry Reed
02-16-2004, 07:57 PM
I like it... except for the thumb keyboard. Why don't these companies choose real keyboards for these kind of devices? Think Outside has proven you can put a nice real keyboard in a small space, why doesn't anyone else do it?

That, and I think I'd prefer it was a real Tablet PC with a display that folded over the back and allowed portrait mode.

Felix Torres
02-16-2004, 07:59 PM
I think they undershot the size for the market they're going after.
OQO at least had the sense to make their unit a tablet PC but they too went a bit smaller than necessary.

The problem we're all familiar with is that above a certain size and weight (iPaq 5xxx or thereabouts) computers stop being truly pocketable and become attache objects.

At one pound, Flipstart is in the awkward position to be too small for PC apps and too big and heavy for PDA use.

A more reasonable compromise would be a full tablet PC in a Samsung nexio form factor, or better yet a bit larger still (say an eight inch screen in an 8by6by0.5inch tablet, with a membrane keyboard in the flip cover). It would simplify the engineering so the price would be closer to $1000 than the $2000 of the OQO and, presumably, Flipstart.

As is, they are both too expensive for PDA replacement and too small and underpowered for laptop replacements.

Maybe Samsung will wise up and build a Centrino nexio...

whydidnt
02-16-2004, 08:00 PM
WOW, this looks like it could kick bu## on the OQO. I really like the LID Module concept. They even tout an optional Mobile Phone Module. :D

However, availablity and pricing? - We will let you know later this year. :!: :!: :evil:

So they don't know how much it will cost or even when it will be ready. I'm guessing we won't get to see this under our Christmas Trees this year.

Just like with the OQO I guess I'll believe it when I see it. :roll:

whydidnt

jeasher
02-16-2004, 08:17 PM
Last but not least: cost. I think this device has a shot if it's in the $500 - $600 range. But they gotta get their marketing down so that the applications for this device are clear to the consumer. Confuse the consumer or make them think about the purchase and your product is dead.

huh? 500-600? come on...

Kati Compton
02-16-2004, 08:27 PM
I'm guessing that the LID module (http://www.flipstartpc.com/aboutproduct_features_lidmodule.asp) on the top/bottom has this alarm functionality.
You're right - it certainly looks like it could... :drool:

I'd really like to see more info on that.

doc
02-16-2004, 08:29 PM
Check out the Flash demo. In that demo it shows a little more about the LID and how it works.

Perk
02-16-2004, 08:31 PM
The problem I see is exactly how big an item I'm willing to carry around all day. Wouldn't we all love full powered devices running the exact same apps as our desktops. I carry an iPAQ and cell phone now and that's only because I can't enter data while talking. If it was up to me, I'd say size is more important than power.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that display, power and storage in say a gen 4 iPAQ.


Looks like Vulcan's still working on their MiniPC. They've redone the product and the website. It's now called the FlipStart. I still don't think it's a PDA replacement, but it looks potentially like a very handy pocket companion.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040216-VulcanFlipStart.jpg

Specs are similar to the OQO: 1GHz processor, 256MB of RAM, 30GB disk. I have to say, though, I prefer this clamshell form factor. Unfortunately, it too is not yet available. Come on, guys, start giving us realistic release dates!

arnage2
02-16-2004, 08:49 PM
i want one of those mini pc's, but i cant justify coffing up more than $1000.

Pete Teoh
02-16-2004, 09:19 PM
Think Outside has proven you can put a nice real keyboard in a small space, why doesn't anyone else do it?

ThinkOutside has announced a Bluetooth version of their keyboard. It would be a nice accessory for this little beast. :mrgreen:

Jonathon Watkins
02-16-2004, 10:04 PM
Nice - but overkill for what I need - really not sure about XP on something that small. :-/

Marcel_Proust
02-16-2004, 10:46 PM
Looks nice and I would like to have one...but oh wait...I believe....I am being....overcome...by vapors......

foldedspace
02-16-2004, 11:50 PM
The nice thing about it running XP is the available software for it out of the box. And people who don't want to learn a new OS will be more likely to get something like this as a portable solution. Plus you can use port replicators and use it like a desktop.

SassKwatch
02-17-2004, 01:44 AM
Last but not least: cost. I think this device has a shot if it's in the $500 - $600 range. But they gotta get their marketing down so that the applications for this device are clear to the consumer. Confuse the consumer or make them think about the purchase and your product is dead. Remember Smart Displays?

Smart Displays failed for one reason, IMO. Price. I would have bought one of them in a heartbeat if it had been $5-600. But at $12-1500 (US).....why? I can buy a decent laptop for that.

I doubt there's a chance in you know where these (or the OQO) will come in at $5-600. They both have the computing capabilities of a full-fledged notebook. And these days, the smaller the notebook, the higher the price.....as a pretty good rule of thumb. If memory serves, the latest suggested MSRP for the OQO is getting close to $2k. I'd be surprised if this 'Flipstart' wasn't in the same range.

SassKwatch
02-17-2004, 01:52 AM
As is, they are both too expensive for PDA replacement and too small and underpowered for laptop replacements.

They may well be too small to suit the preferences of many folks. But they certainly are not underpowered.

The specs on both the OQO and this Flipstart are *very* close to the Fujitsu P1120 sub-notebook. We have 25 of those running a SQL based application at work every day, and they do just fine. No reason either of these devices couldn't do the same. Now, they probably aren't well suited to hard core code slingin', or movie editing, etc. But that leaves a *whole lot* of other computing activities for which they could serve just fine.

The big question surrounding both this and the OQO remains to be.....when/if will either shed they're heretofore vaporous qualities.

T-Will
02-17-2004, 02:17 AM
Looks like a pretty COOL device...but too bad it doesn't have a touch-screen. I wonder if they've thought of adding one and making it into a Tablet PC device? :?

Eraserhead
02-17-2004, 02:58 AM
What I want is somthing like the Psion 5mx (http://www.series5mx.com/) wich has the best keyboard considering size I have ever used and also a fantastic formfactor. I want full colour screen (C.a. 800X480 or 1024X600) and Win XP and I want this fur 1000$. The small external screen looks great and would be ideal on such a small laptop.

The specs could be:

1 GHz processor
256MB system RAM
20GB internal hard drive
3D graphics display adaptor with 8mb ram
Keyboard
6" Display (1024 x 600)
6 hours battery life
802.11b and bluetooth
USB 2.0 port
microphone/speaker with headphones jacks
Windows XP Home/Professional operating system
Dimensions: 170 x 90 x 23mm
Weighs: 450g with batteries

encece
02-17-2004, 04:19 AM
What is the battery life on this thing? Whats the purpose of having a small form factor, allowing ease of travel if you have to also take your power adapter or extra batteries?

You may as well use a laptop.

Kati Compton
02-17-2004, 04:45 AM
Well, hopefully the "2-6 hours life with extended battery" or whatever doesn't mean 2 hours with the extended battery with the WiFi on. ;) But yeah - with a quick glance at the specs, I didn't see actual battery size listed. But then again, that seems normal for laptops (as opposed to PDAs) to not list mAh, just hours.

Felix Torres
02-17-2004, 05:31 AM
As is, they are both too expensive for PDA replacement and too small and underpowered for laptop replacements.

They may well be too small to suit the preferences of many folks. But they certainly are not underpowered.

The specs on both the OQO and this Flipstart are *very* close to the Fujitsu P1120 sub-notebook. We have 25 of those running a SQL based application at work every day, and they do just fine. No reason either of these devices couldn't do the same. Now, they probably aren't well suited to hard core code slingin', or movie editing, etc. But that leaves a *whole lot* of other computing activities for which they could serve just fine.

The big question surrounding both this and the OQO remains to be.....when/if will either shed they're heretofore vaporous qualities.

As the owner of a 1Ghz Transmeta-powered tablet PC, I know exactly how the chip performs and the answer is: adequately.
But barely and only because of the on-board NVIDIA graphics chip and because I maxed out the RAM to 768 Mb. Which is fine by me cause I only paid $1000 for it and my main use is as an ebook reader.

The specs on the OQO and Flipstart indicate the graphics processors will be less powerful than that of the TC1000, yet by the promos on the web sites they make it clear they are aiming at a crowd that would want to do image processing and presentation work that will likely be beyond what the specified hardware can deliver.

Now, since we *are* talking vaporware, they might realize this when they start building the things and either upgrade the graphics or tone down the unfulfillable promises by shipping time, but that still leaves them with a $2000 tweener box that is neither fish nor fowl.

The history of the HPC family suggests there is only a very small market for such devices; maybe enough for one design, but hardly enough for the three vaporous devices we've seen to date...

Cute though they may be, I'm thinking Audrey and eVilla...

SassKwatch
02-17-2004, 02:39 PM
As the owner of a 1Ghz Transmeta-powered tablet PC, I know exactly how the chip performs and the answer is: adequately.
But barely and only because of the on-board NVIDIA graphics chip and because I maxed out the RAM to 768 Mb.
When we purchased the Fujitsu P1120's, the other device we evaluated was the TC1000. *Everyone* voted for the Fujitsu. For email, surfing, general office apps, Powerpoint presentations, and such, ithe P1120 performs just fine.
by the promos on the web sites they make it clear they are aiming at a crowd that would want to do image processing and presentation work
I certainly doubt these devices would be suitable for that. And it seems pretty clear to me that Flipstart at least is aiming at the 'mobile professional' who would most likely use the type apps I mentioned above.

The only graphics appplication I would foresee would be photographers with digicams wanting to have something portable in the field to transfer files from their flash cards to the device and get a quick looksee.
The history of the HPC family suggests there is only a very small market for such devices; maybe enough for one design, but hardly enough for the three vaporous devices we've seen to date...
The biggest failing in HPC's....at least IMO, was marketing. I had never even heard of such a device until *after* I had purchased a PPC. And though I'm not hardly a news hound for small devices by any means, I do get around enough that I think I'd have known about them had there been even a modicum of marketing done.

whydidnt
02-17-2004, 03:43 PM
The biggest failing in HPC's....at least IMO, was marketing. I had never even heard of such a device until *after* I had purchased a PPC. And though I'm not hardly a news hound for small devices by any means, I do get around enough that I think I'd have known about them had there been even a modicum of marketing done.

I think the other issue was that M$ never intended the HPC to be a laptop replacement and crippled much of it's functionality. There was a good chance if you were going to be traveling for a week that you would have had to bring your laptop along anyway, as the HPC was simply a "PC companion". You couldn't watch a DVD, the subsystem was so slow that internet access crawled even with a decent connection. I was so excited when I first got my LG Phenom - only to have my hope dashed by it's internal limitations. The experience forever turned me off of the HPC market.

The thing about these mini-PC's that is so interesting is that I CAN see myself being able to use it as Laptop replacement for a week's travel. Sure I won't be typing 10 page report on it, but for me, that's rare while traveling anyway.

whydidnt

possmann
02-17-2004, 04:38 PM
vaporware....

iant54
02-17-2004, 05:14 PM
For a larger keyboard, how about the iBIZ Virtual Laser Keyboard?

:D

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22772&highlight=ibiz

jlp
02-17-2004, 05:39 PM
I like it... except for the thumb keyboard. Why don't these companies choose real keyboards for these kind of devices? Think Outside has proven you can put a nice real keyboard in a small space, why doesn't anyone else do it?

That, and I think I'd prefer it was a real Tablet PC with a display that folded over the back and allowed portrait mode.

This thing has an IR port, so I see no reason the ThinkOutside IR keyboard couldn't be used with it; it's only a question of drivers.

jlp
02-17-2004, 05:41 PM
I may buy something like this in two or three years. It will replace my current laptop and will act as my PDA. I'm not sold on the idea of a PDA/phone, but I do like the idea of a PDA/laptop. They key would be performance that is acceptable and a pricetag of the unit including all the accessories for under $2000.
My only problem with that is needing it to boot faster than a laptop, and be able to wake itself (and me) up with alarms...

Their site says: "Instant on means there's no waiting for Flipstart to boot"!!

Kati Compton
02-17-2004, 05:42 PM
Their site says: "Instant on means there's no waiting for Flipstart to boot"!!
Yes - we had that discussion already. ;)

Janak Parekh
02-17-2004, 08:05 PM
Their site says: "Instant on means there's no waiting for Flipstart to boot"!!
Yes - we had that discussion already. ;)
Interesting datapoint on this: I now carry a tablet PC, and it does resume faster than other laptops. However, while it "resumes" in approximately one second, the unit is not usable for a few seconds beyond that, and even more if you want it to reclaim a wireless signal. Moreover, the standby lifetime isn't very good on tablet PCs or laptops in general. In short, I still don't see these devices replacing PDAs for organizer functions, although I can see people who don't use organizer functions much going for something like this.

--janak

Kati Compton
02-17-2004, 08:08 PM
Interesting datapoint on this: I now carry a tablet PC, and it does resume faster than other laptops. However, while it "resumes" in approximately one second, the unit is not usable for a few seconds beyond that, and even more if you want it to reclaim a wireless signal. Moreover, the standby lifetime isn't very good on tablet PCs or laptops in general. In short, I still don't see these devices replacing PDAs for organizer functions, although I can see people who don't use organizer functions much going for something like this.
Right - but it might be a mini-PDA built in the lid, which synchronizes with the HD when the laptop is on. In which case, it may provide all the necessary instant-on functionality. Hard to say without more solid info, though.

Janak Parekh
02-17-2004, 08:09 PM
Right - but it might be a mini-PDA built in the lid, which synchronizes with the HD when the laptop is on. In which case, it may provide all the necessary instant-on functionality. Hard to say without more solid info, though.
Ah, you're talking about that. Sorry. :oops:

--janak

SassKwatch
02-18-2004, 01:52 AM
The thing about these mini-PC's that is so interesting is that I CAN see myself being able to use it as Laptop replacement for a week's travel. Sure I won't be typing 10 page report on it, but for me, that's rare while traveling anyway.
Exactly. I suspect there's a lot more people like you who would make this a larger 'niche' market than some would thhink.

Just as a couple more examples......

How many people are on the road all the time doing Powerpoint presentations....and that's basically the extent of their use of the pc?

Even I.T. pros who need a mobile device for support. How many of them do much more than dial/VPN in to a troubled SQL server (or whatever), do a little troubleshooting, and then reboot the thing?

Jonathon Watkins
02-18-2004, 02:00 AM
New 'review' here at the Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/35624.html).

Why does it have to have a camera!!!! You can't this lots of places if it has one built in. 2-3 hours battery life for running Office. 8O That's pretty bad!