Why I miss my Palm III [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Jason Dunn

10-01-2003, 07:00 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/000114.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/000114.html</a><br /><br /></div>Foo Fighter has written up a commentary in his site, PocketFactory, that talks about the physical construction of PDAs today. What do you think? Do you agree with him?<br /><br />"Over the past few years I have shuffled through countless different mobile devices, ranging from Palm, Handspring, Sony, HP, Compaq, Dell...and even a proprietary Casio Pocket Viewer. This has given me a great opportunity to sample not only different software platforms, but also form factors. Lately I have begun to notice a rather unpleasant trend in PDA design. It seems that utility is being sacrificed for glitz. In particular, the materials used in PDA housings have become less friendly to rugged everyday use. For example, the earliest Palm handhelds were simple plastic shells molded in two pieces and in one solid color. Today, most PDAs are painted shells that are prone to chipping, scratching, fingerprints, and give less "grip" when held in the palm of the hand. In addition, I see many PDA vendors abandoning the tried and true flip cover, which offers critical protection to the screen..."

JonnoB

10-01-2003, 07:07 PM

In general, I agree with Foo. Palm was ahead of its time with form factor and yet ruggedness. I think that everyone is so cost conscious now that some of the design ideas are put aside to save a few pennies here and there.

Wasp

10-01-2003, 07:11 PM

I agree totally. At least my HP568 has a flip cover. It has saved my butt numerous times. I keep my pocketPC in my shirt pocket. Sometimes when I am in the shop, I bend over to check something and it falls out of my pocket. I have never damaged my screen and the shop floor is concrete. I had an AMIGO and it hit the corner of my chair from a fall of 18 inches. Totalled the screen. The point is I won't buy a pocket PC without a flip cover; it is too expensive replacing screens. If I am eventually forced to do so, I will want a flip top case that still fits into my shirt pocket. But until an upgrade becomes vital, or my pocket PC fails, I am not upgrading. 8)

trachy

10-01-2003, 07:24 PM

Count me in on this rant too. The first thing I noticed about my iPAQ was just how slippery it is. To this day I'm afraid the thing's going to fly out of my hand whenever I pick it up. They could have made it just as attractive (which I think it is) by adding some kind of notches along the gripping areas.

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 07:24 PM

You should have given me some warning you were posting this. When I reloaded PPCT's homepage I thought I was hallucinating. :lol:

Jason Dunn

10-01-2003, 07:26 PM

You should have given me some warning you were posting this. When I reloaded PPCT's homepage I thought I was hallucinating. :lol:

Hey, you're "media" now, so you'd better learn to live with it. :lol:

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 07:29 PM

Hey, you're "media" now, so you'd better learn to live with it. :lol:

LOL! Actually I've had one or two of my articles published on ZDNET at one time. And I've been quoted on CNET in a few news stories.

Prevost

10-01-2003, 07:33 PM

Something I will miss from my Palm m515 (I know it will be replaced someday) is its metal body. The 2210 fits the hand, that's true, but feels "false" too.

I understand this tendence to flee from metal housings is in order to reduce weight, but for someone like me, who works in an environment harsh for electronics like construction, it is better to give up lightness for body hardness.

In the end, how many people are keeping the handheld in their shirt pockets so as to make weight so critical? I wear it in the belt, but even if you keep it in your hand and with a case, handheld's weight disappears as an issue.

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 07:36 PM

Glad I'm not alone in my rants. I'm gettting sick of these same damn generic silver painted designs. What agravates me even more is that PDA vendors are designing handhelds in a "one upmanship" manor rather than trying to make something that really is rugged and practical for everyday use. The same thing is happening, in may cases, in the cell phone market. Products are being designed to look pretty on a store shelf without necessarily offering any utilitarian benefit. I see vendors spending too much time trying to compete for consumers eyeballs rather their hands.

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 07:38 PM

Something I will miss from my Palm m515 (I know it will be replaced someday) is its metal body.

That's a great point. And you know, if a small startup with just 16 employees like Tapwave can offer handhelds with metal chassis for $299, why can't HP or Dell?

bjornkeizers

10-01-2003, 07:41 PM

I agree with Foo on this. I've been a long time palm user, ever since the days of the Palm Pilot Professional, when 2 MB and a mono green-greener screen was considered high tech 8O

Later I bought a Palm IIIe, the transparant "special edition" - god, that was one good device. It was small, light yet built very rugged. I never had to worry about it. After that, I got a IIIC, which I still have to this day [but am about to sell to an uncle] Solid as a house. Nowadays, I own a Palm M130, in addition to a Clie SL10 and an Ipaq 1915. I'm far more worried about my Ipaq then I was about my Palm. Ipaq's are small and very slippery. Im worried that I might drop it, even with the added protection of a proporta aluminium case...

In contrast, I never bothered with things like good cases or screen protectors for any of my Palms. I knew that if I dropped one, it'd bounce back and still work [they have on many occasions! 8O ]

Prevost

10-01-2003, 07:52 PM

I see vendors spending too much time trying to compete for consumers eyeballs rather their hands.
I guess this is what selling is all about.

For customers like us (yeah, I include myself along with you all...he he) who are experienced in what real life usage of a PDA is, there are a lot of things to look for when it's time to buy a new one. But in the market share fight, manufacturers are looking to convince more people to buy PDAs and not to satisfy the real life handling needs of real users. Those new customers are in many cases unaware of what the reach of a PDA is and even less of usability or durability issues.

For an example, here in Panama one retailer ad both Tungsten Ts and iPAQ 1940 as having Bluetooth technology...in a country where no Bluetooth enabled cell phones are sold yet.

To certain extent I feel this is also a current weakness of the PPC platform. MS IMHO try to appeal customers with PPC multimedia capabilities (I won't deny those ARE appealing) but they are taking too few steps in order to give a better user experience concerning ActiveSync, PocketWord and Pocket Excel (again, IMHO).

Steven Cedrone

10-01-2003, 08:10 PM

That's a great point. And you know, if a small startup with just 16 employees like Tapwave can offer handhelds with metal chassis for $299, why can't HP or Dell?

HP did...

And not only did it have a metal body, it had a flip cover as well...

Steve

sponge

10-01-2003, 08:12 PM

HP DID. That's the problem, they don't/can't/won't anymore.

gorkon280

10-01-2003, 08:20 PM

I have dropped both my e740 and my new 5555 and it had some falls that killed 2 em500's and they cam through great. The em500 had a nice case so far as holding on to it. It's screen is delicate as hell. My wife also likes to play jawbreaker on my iPaq but when I had asked her which PocketPC she liked and she said non and would have reather had one like the m100.

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 08:21 PM

JvanEkris

10-01-2003, 08:30 PM

HP did...

And not only did it have a metal body, it had a flip cover as well...

Yep, and the 540 series was a fabulous design, way better than the iPaq, IMO. Wish they would bring something similar to it back to market as a mainstream handheld. Doubt that will ever happen. :cry:I agree wholeheartly.

I really love the design of the 548. I have used it for 2 years, but i still own it. It's heavy, but somehow it is a beautifully designed machine that is solid (i absolutely love the rubber grips on it), and robust. The flip cover is an amazing invention. My girlfriend still has a Jornada 548, and you can see that it is necessary 8O .

All things considering, i bought a Loox, and directly started modifying it so that it resembles a Jornada more :? First thing i bought was a Vaja-case to add a flip cover and a leather side-grip........

Jaap

Foo Fighter

10-01-2003, 08:43 PM

Agreed on the rubber grips. That is a wonderful touch that aids in preventing slippage or drops. Another thing I just remembered about the 540 is that, at one time, HP was selling different color accented flip lids for 525 owners (or 54x owners) to customize their Jornada, just like some of the after market Palm III flip covers. And some of the colors choice were really sexy. Burnt Orange, Burgundy, Blue, etc. That was a brilliant idea, not to mention practical and FUN. I'd like to see more of that philosophy go into todays PPC designs.

Steven Cedrone

10-01-2003, 09:03 PM

Yes...

I also liked the "toothpick" stylus in the flip as well. I know alot of people hated that stylus, but I really liked it. The whole 548 was well thought out and an excellent design...

It was a very "business-like" Pocket PC...

Oh well...

Steve

qgman

10-01-2003, 09:58 PM

One more reason that I still have my E125. Despite dropping it several times, it still works great. It's a shame Casio left the US PPC business -- being a consumer electronics company, they understood the fact that users will abuse their devices. If only they would have made it less brick-like...

Paragon

10-01-2003, 11:13 PM

Eciton

10-01-2003, 11:36 PM

I still remember my Palm IIIe flying out of my coat pocket, spiralling through the air and smashing onto the road while I was running - with no damage. I'd bet money that any electronic device that I own today wouldn't take that punishment and come through it with no ill-effects.

Like many above, I appreciated the flip cover too. I never felt the need to buy a case for the III, which is an essential add-on for anything I now own. This, of course, offsets any size advantage that newer devices may have.

AndrewLubinus89

10-02-2003, 12:10 AM

I completely agree with Foo, I used to have an apple newton and that flip screen was its best feature. Now I have a visor edge (what am I doing in this site??) and I love it's flip screen. It gives it a lot more protection to the screen.

alienplantlife

10-02-2003, 03:57 AM

I totally agree. In fact I must confessthat my primary PDA is still the Palm IIIe!!!

I've been lurking on this site for several months now and waiting until I find the device that I want. I have a few reasons for not making the jump.

1. Price: I know that you get so much more in a Pocket PC than a Palm IIIe, but frankly after nearly 10 yrs of development I would expect to able to get a Pcoket PC with wireless for $199 (the price I paid for the Palm). This is the case for laptops. The price never changes, only what you get in the unit.

2. Size/built: This is most closely related to this thread. I love the feel of the Palm in my hand. I don't get the same oomph with a Pocket PC. They FEEL cheaper.

3. Screen: Even if the screen is monochrome on the Palm it -seems- bigger than some of the new Pocket PCs. I figured that multimedia would be a major thing for Pocket PC, but the screen seems too small for me. I'm not expecting anything bigger any time soon, though.

4. Sync: While my Palm pretty works on its own since integration with Outlook is third-party and weak at best, I gather from the forums that ActiveSync comes with it's own set off headaches. When will developers finally get one of the most basic of PDA functions (sync) right?

Ok, that's my rant... Until I see a convincing and comprehensive argument, I'll stick with my archaic Palm III and drop it on occasion without too much worry. But don't worry folks the convincing is getting close (I kinda like the HP 1940/5) :)

jherubin

10-02-2003, 04:39 AM

I have to agree as well.

In fact, when I am on military deployments I actually will still sync my old Palm IIIx to take with me. I leave the fancy PocketPC at home. In the field the IIIx can live a long time off a couple batteries, its body is constructed for durability, and the screen's flip cover has saved it on more than one occasion.

bbell98

10-02-2003, 06:04 AM

[quote="WaSp"]I agree totally. At least my HP568 has a flip cover........ The point is I won't buy a pocket PC without a flip cover[quote]

I'm with you on that! I noticed today that HP was sort of getting back to the Jornada line with their form and style.. But still no flip covers!

As long as my 568 keeps working, I'm hanging onto it. It has the rubber on the sides and the *vertical* flip cover - why can't anyone else get this right?! :)

Thanks HP, you were :wink: great.

madbart

10-02-2003, 10:36 AM

I have had numerous devices over the years since the very first Palm Pilot. Even though i have long since migrated to the wm platform i would have to say that the form factor of the palm vx was the slickest that i ever own. I currently own a 5450 & love the functionality but hate the size/weight & and the general lack of robustness.

DavidHorn

10-02-2003, 11:04 AM

whershfeld

10-02-2003, 11:58 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ruggedness of the old Newton 2100...

the flip cover was the best design I have ever used... it was double-hinged so that the cover would swing back and click on the back of the Newton when in use and would just as easily snap back into place to cover the screen.

the body on the Newton was covered in this neat rubber that made it very "grippable."

There was never a real need for a case for the Newton - it was it's own case.

Why can't one of the manufacturers take a cue from the Apple design?

madbart

10-02-2003, 12:02 PM

I am not sure why all you guys keep going on about the "flip" cover.

The answer is simple. Stop being a tight AR#SE and go and buy one.....that way the screens don't break! :boohoo:

Paragon

10-02-2003, 01:18 PM

I am not sure why all you guys keep going on about the "flip" cover.

The answer is simple. Stop being a tight AR#SE and go and buy one.....that way the screens don't break! :boohoo:

Simple! Aftermarket lids are never what the OEM designs for the device.

Dave

willh

10-02-2003, 01:18 PM

Anyone who has ever used the old Newton 2100 flip cover understands the novelty and usefulness of the design...

Sure - you can always go buy a third-party case... and I have for my 1940 (Proporta Aluminium), but it seems to me a big oversight on the part of a manufacturer to not include a useable screen cover that doesn't add a lot of bulk to the device. It's akin to buying a beautiful new car that doesn't include a windshield... it's just not practical to use without it and it should have been included in the design process.

Jimmy Dodd

10-02-2003, 01:33 PM

Glad I'm not alone in my rants. I'm gettting sick of these same damn generic silver painted designs.

The worst thing about the silver design (usage-wise) is that when you try to read the screen outside in bright sunlight and angle the device so the sun reflects off the screen it also reflects off of the chasis - usually more so than the screen. I'd love to have my 2215 housed in a chasis like my old 548. Nothing reflected off that surface.

ux4484

10-02-2003, 03:43 PM

Actually I think the best cover was on the Handspring Deluxe. It snapped on, and could be flipped aronud and snapped onto the back of the unit, giving you a convienent place to put the lid when not needed. Plus is was very comfortable to hold with the lid on the back. As well the lid system was used as a method of attaching the device to a case. Very slick. Very effective. It could be tossed if you didn't want a lid.....and it probably cost a buck, and a half. :)
Dave

I still have the covers on both my VDX's, It protects it perfectly in the Mrs' purse, and keeps dust out of the other one we use for a kitchen counter phone book.....also make it a great vacation PDA in the fanny pack.

The flip covers on the Sony' seem a tad chincy by comparison to both the VDX's cover and especially the older HP covers, and as Foo mentioned they mark up/scratch waayyy to easy.

corrosive

10-02-2003, 04:24 PM

The worst thing about the silver design (usage-wise) is that when you try to read the screen outside in bright sunlight and angle the device so the sun reflects off the screen it also reflects off of the chasis - usually more so than the screen. I'd love to have my 2215 housed in a chasis like my old 548. Nothing reflected off that surface.

I've had a similar problem loads of times - when using my iPaq for GPS navigation in the car, and being asked to tilt it a bit because it's blinding my gf whilst she's driving...

powder2000

10-02-2003, 05:36 PM

Don't mention the words "flip cover". I've just destroyed a three week old 1910 by keeping it in my Pocket. Banged into a table and cracked the screen.

New one at £93.00... GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I totally agree with everyone here that ppc's should have a flip cover included. My only rant is that for the brain power we have here, you'd think that when people put a ppc in their pocket, they would put it in with the screen facing in. :roll: That's what I've always done and have bumped my leg plenty of times with no ill effects.

mesapilot

10-02-2003, 05:55 PM

I am with you 100%. I am waiting for my 2215 to come back with a new screen. The guy I have replacing it says that he has sold out twice on these screens already. Apparently, HP is using a no name company to make the screens and he says that they are sub standard compared to the older iPAQ screens. I am looking for a good case with screen protection right now.

Foo Fighter

10-02-2003, 06:13 PM

Simple! Aftermarket lids are never what the OEM designs for the device.

Correct. I've found aftermarket solutions to be rather clumsy. This is what made the Palm III design so ingenious. You could replace the default lid with other aftermarket products that fit right into the divets on each side of the device, so it worked just like the OEM lid. And, if you don't like flip lids, you could just remove the lid and go "naked", if you so choose. It was great. The HP Jornada 540 series also provided similar benefits. Palm V was another great design. Luxurious leather flip covers....mmmmm.

Tierran

10-02-2003, 06:36 PM

Yeah, the death of the Jornada series really marked the end of PPC flip lids. I believe that many Palms still having them. I loved the protection my IIIxe and Jornada 560 both had from their lids and even though I owned a Vaja for my Jornada, I always thought the device and lid were very attractive and often left the Vaja at home.

I am happy to say that I believe my e740 is built very solidly. The metal isn't reflective and feels so solid. And to Toshiba's credit, they did ship it with a pouch that provided more than adequate screen protection. It was just ugly as sin ;) I think that a lot of aftermarket cases are very good solutions though and always buy them anyway...

quidproquo

10-02-2003, 09:15 PM

I have had my T-Mobile PPC phone slip out of my hand a time or two and one of those drops dented the lower corner. It kept functioning, but with a ugly dent on the bottom.

My old Palm Pilot Pro would have kept on ticking without a scratch.

Sounds like we have a bunch of Palm users coming out of the closet here! :?

My wife has a M135 (or what ever the model # is for the color M105) and I sometimes like to reminisce with it.....but give me the robust nature of PPC please!! :lol:

Jonathon Watkins

10-07-2003, 10:20 PM

I am not sure why all you guys keep going on about the "flip" cover.

Becuase if the device is not designed for a flip cover, any aftermarket device will not sit/fit right. It will not be as solid and may come loose/off alltogether.

How hard is it for OEMs to put two small notches in the top of the device and fit a small slab of curved plastic? :roll: It is very odd that no current PPC offers this. Almost everyone here can see the point - even if you don't like a flip lid you can always remove it without any problem. So - as has been said - WHY don't the OEMs fit them? :?: