Spam, Pornography, MPEG, and You

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=d4e8455587c62d1eed93f53dfe322bc2&threadid=87444&perpage=10&pagenumber=1' target='_blank'>http://discussion.brighthand.com/sh...10&pagenumber=1</a><br /><br /></div>There's a very interesting thread going on over at Brighthand that I think is worth reading. It's about a company who offers a free piece of software, but unbeknownst to many people (myself included), they're selling the email addresses to another company. That other company then turned around and send out an ad for an adult service. Quite the sordid tale! You'll have to go read the thread to see who the companies are that I'm talking about.<br /><br />My two cents: if you're releasing a freeware application, either make it truly free (no strings attached), or be up-front about the fact that you're going to use the email addresses that you're collecting in a mailing list. There's nothing wrong with profiting from your work as a developer, but don't do it in a sneaky fashion. Be up front with your users, and keep their respect.

[GoldKey]

We started discussing the same issue here http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=152446&highlight=#152446

But they got much further with it, plus got the two companies involved. Pretty interesting. My only problem with the mailing was that it could have been sent to minors.

[mjhamson]

Not that I am paranoid, but I always give a "fictitious" address when I sign-up for anything. In other words, if I sign up for Foo Company at FooCo.com I create a nice little address called [email protected]. The mail gets dumped into a big bucket where I can see it. If I find that they sell the address and/or do naughty things with my address, I just have that address redirected back to the company.

All is fair in love and war.


-Michael

ps. This is not fool-proof... but it is fun to see who is good and who is bad.

[Jeff Rutledge]

I was initially surprised at how mild the reaction seemed to be. I was quite surprised at this action. It's hard enough to protect children without worrying about "legitimate" businesses. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive as a soon-to-be father, but I find this distressing. It's analogous to someone standing in a mall handing out Penthouse magazines to people as they walk by, regardless as age.

Perhaps it's the fact that the majority of us here are of age. Or maybe I'm just a fuddy-duddy. :?

[dean_shan]

Not that I am paranoid, but I always give a "fictitious" address when I sign-up for anything.

I've been using [email protected] for years. I feel sorry if that really is someones address. I'm not paranoid, I just don't like spam.

[dean_shan]

Perhaps it's the fact that the majority of us here are of age. Or maybe I'm just a fuddy-duddy. :?

No your not a fuddy-duddy. I am young and I feel the same way as you.

[Fzara]

Not that I am paranoid, but I always give a "fictitious" address when I sign-up for anything.

I've been using [email protected] for years. I feel sorry if that really is someones address. I'm not paranoid, I just don't like spam.

No way that works in real terms of practicality. Today's sites have a password sent to the email address. So if you really don't have an email addy [email protected], it would be virtually impossible to sign up for anything today.

Let me add, the federal government really needs to somehow step up to the plate and create some kind of "do-not-spam" list, similar to the "do-not-call" list that was set-up. This could help prevent some spammers from sending spam, but it would only be a half-half solution. Many spammers spam from different countries, and i'm afraid no one will be stop them until email hosts step up and destroy their fake, and often re-directed accounts.

[Jacob]

Let me add, the federal government really needs to somehow step up to the plate and create some kind of "do-not-spam" list, similar to the "do-not-call" list that was set-up. This could help prevent some spammers from sending spam, but it would only be a half-half solution. Many spammers spam from different countries, and i'm afraid no one will be stop them until email hosts step up and destroy their fake, and often re-directed accounts.

I saw an article talking about this and the reason why people aren't in favor of that solution is they say that if the spammers aren't going to pay attention to opt-outs, why would they pay attention to a list?

I personally still think that the selling and transferring of personal information between two companies should be illegal without your explicit consent.

I also think that there should be a legally mandated Opt-in only policy for having customer contacted. So the customer has to specifically say they want to be contacted by that ONE company in order for that company to send you an email.

[maximus]

I am basically fine if people are sending 'regular' advertisements to my hotmail account, I can just click the 'delete' button, but when they start sending adult advertisements ... that's when the line is drawn. I personally hate those organ enlargement ads. And lately, they came at big numbers. Blocking them are useless, coz they are from dummy emails. Getting annoying. Someone should ddos those email spammer.

[petvas]

The first few months of using the Internet I didn't know that much and I made the mistake a couple of times to give my real Email Address when I was signing up to various sites... The amount of Spam I still got from that account is unconceivable...
Of course many years later I am aware of the whole issue and I never give my true Email Address but to trusted sources only...
Thankfully I have many email addresses and I do not receive any spam at all. Only my original Email Address is condemned with Spam...

[Steven Cedrone]

I have had my Geek.com account since the day they started to offer them. It's really a shame, I am going to have to give it up as I now get about 50-70 enlargement/viagra/mortgage/web cam/secret admirer spams, per day... :roll:

Steve

[petvas]

I have had my Geek.com account since the day they started to offer them. It's really a shame, I am going to have to give it up as I now get about 50-70 enlargement/viagra/mortgage/web cam/secret admirer spams, per day... :roll:

Steve

Yeah, that's what happened to my Hotmail account. I couldn't stand all that spam... 8O

[Janak Parekh]

Not that I am paranoid, but I always give a "fictitious" address when I sign-up for anything.
I've been using [email protected] for years. I feel sorry if that really is someones address. I'm not paranoid, I just don't like spam.
Don't use "d.com". Use a designated domain, such as example.com, or even better, use an invalid TLD, such as "[email protected]" (although some sites won't accept the latter). Both are designated by the IANA/IETF (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2606.html) to be non-useable by any legitimate entity. I personally tend to use "[email protected]".

--janak

[dh]

When our daughter was about 8 we had to abandon her HotMail account. It's annoying because it's hard to get an account in one of the big email systems that is just your name. Maybe we will be able to revive it at some point.

The good news is that Windows Media Player is getting better and (hopefully) PocketMVP will get sorted. We don't need to use a scummy scamming company like PocketPC.

[Jeff Rutledge]

Let me add, the federal government really needs to somehow step up to the plate and create some kind of "do-not-spam" list, similar to the "do-not-call" list that was set-up. This could help prevent some spammers from sending spam, but it would only be a half-half solution. Many spammers spam from different countries, and i'm afraid no one will be stop them until email hosts step up and destroy their fake, and often re-directed accounts.

While I agree that there is a definite need for regulation of a kind, it will be very difficult due to the decentralized nature of the Internet, specifically the international issue. With phone companies, they are local so they can be regulated locally. The internet is tougher.

Even better than regulation - however - is us. I'm becoming more and more surprised at the fact that consumers don't seem to realize the power they have. I'll concede that companies are getting bigger and bigger and individual customer satisfaction is less of a focus as a whole, but the consumer still wields great power. If 40% of Mazingo's subscribers cancelled their memberships because of this, I believe quick action would be taken.

Is this apathy? Or do you think the majority simply don't think it's a big deal? I'm curious. This is a good example of more general behaviours I think. It seems to me that people get less and less involved with things these days. They seem to lean more towards "If it hurts the community, but not me, that's OK". Well maybe not "OK". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "it's not worth the risk of getting involved".

I got off on a bit of a tangent there. I don't mean to necessarily imply that Mazingo should be boycotted. Although I am a little disappointed in their response so far. They seem to acknowledge that people are upset, but aren't stepping up like I'd like them too. I'd like a company (for a change) to say "Yep, our fault. We're making changes immediately to make sure it doesn't happen again." But we won't. Adult material sells. Doesn't matter if it's right or not.

Sorry if I strayed too far...

[ctmagnus]

IMO something like the DNS system needs to be set up for email. It would create overhead and more traffic on the Internet but that way, ISPs would at least have some master list they can all agree on about addresses/domains that are sending out spam and consequently block those addresses/domains. It wouldn't stop spam completely but it would stem the flow.

[Steven Cedrone]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the best spam that winds up in my inbox every day: The "get rid of spam" spam... :roll: :wink:

Steve

[jkendrick]

Picture this:

You show up for work one day just like every other day to a job you really like and you're called in to your boss's office and fired for having porn delivered to your office email address. All because you signed up for a legitimate online service.

To me that's the sobering message in this whole ordeal.

I have 4 email accounts and I check them all at once and usually during slack time at a client's office. I can't tell you how many times an offensive spam message popped up in the preview window and I had to move so fast to switch the screen before someone saw it.

This spam situation is way beyond just annoying and has become downright dangerous as the discussed thread points out all too well.

[sponge]

I've put my email into countless forms, and I haven't had a spam since April, when my other e-mail account shut down. As long as you don't enter your mail into shady sites, or sites that really don't need it you should be relatively fine.

For the rest, there's Bayesian mail filters :P

[jkendrick]

I've put my email into countless forms, and I haven't had a spam since April, when my other e-mail account shut down. As long as you don't enter your mail into shady sites, or sites that really don't need it you should be relatively fine.

For the rest, there's Bayesian mail filters :P

Actually the guy that started the original thread signed up for a legitimate service and the sold his email address to someone that subsequently spammed him with adult material that he received to his work email address.

[Tari Akpodiete]

Well, as someone who runs a video download site with 15 000 currently signed up opt-in members aka Rocketeers who like to view video on their handhelds, I simply CANNOT tell you how many requests I have had to cough up my membership list, both for free and for cash.

Not that the Rocketeers ever have to worry as that's something I'd never do - sell them out. From time to time, in the newsletter, I do make mention of a product that the Rocketeers might be interested in and mentions are free and not for tasteless things.

I'm just one person, not a team or a company, and this site costs me money to run which is one reason I made it a membership required site - to cut down on the bandwidth/traffic costs.

I don't even have rotating banner ads and I have only two affiliate programs. I may start some ads and I'll probably join a few more affiliate programs. If someone really wants to reach my visitors, then the video download page is where they could buy a banner, I guess, not that I am even selling them there at the moment.

You know, during over 3 years of operation, I've been offered between 10 cents and 5 bucks per working address and I've never even been tempted to break my word.

And that's not to say that I couldn't use the money because of course, I could, but I would close the site before I got lowdown and sleazy and sold off the email addresses, after promising not to do so, especially to porno spammers.

[ctmagnus]

I'm curious what would happen if someone registered a domain and set the description to include the words "free membership". Build a page or two to put up there and see how quickly and often offers like those that Tari Akpodiete receive, come rolling in.

[dwildone]

Is this apathy? Or do you think the majority simply don't think it's a big deal? I'm curious. This is a good example of more general behaviours I think. It seems to me that people get less and less involved with things these days. They seem to lean more towards "If it hurts the community, but not me, that's OK". Well maybe not "OK". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "it's not worth the risk of getting involved".


I think that it is some of all of the above. Our society as a whole has come to use the "Its not my problem" excuse because too much of the time it really isn't worth getting involved if you don't have to, which has over time lead to genuine apathy in some cases. When is the last time that you remember a group of people publicly supporting a controversial person/subject only because it is the right thing to do? What has changed so much over the past 40-50 years that has made us forget that sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, even if it is not the easiest or safest stand to take? And where would we be today if generations past had taken the same stand?

Sorry if that's a little much- its not the first time today that this topic has come up...

[Jason Dunn]

Let me add, the federal government really needs to somehow step up to the plate...

Spammers don't respect laws, or international borders. Huge amounts of spam is coming from coutries where the economy isn't very strong (Russia, India) and they'll do anything to put food on the table. Laws will do nothing to stop spam: technology can only be stopped by technology.

[dwildone]

Spammers don't respect laws, or international borders. Huge amounts of spam is coming from coutries where the economy isn't very strong (Russia, India) and they'll do anything to put food on the table. Laws will do nothing to stop spam: technology can only be stopped by technology.

Very true- its already illegal in the US to send spam to someone who has opted out or asked to be removed from a list and it still happens hundreds of time per hour. A new set of laws/rules/regulations is not going to stop people to which they can not be applied...

[Jeff Rutledge]

I think that it is some of all of the above. Our society as a whole has come to use the "Its not my problem" excuse because too much of the time it really isn't worth getting involved if you don't have to, which has over time lead to genuine apathy in some cases. When is the last time that you remember a group of people publicly supporting a controversial person/subject only because it is the right thing to do? What has changed so much over the past 40-50 years that has made us forget that sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, even if it is not the easiest or safest stand to take? And where would we be today if generations past had taken the same stand?

Sorry if that's a little much- its not the first time today that this topic has come up...

It's a vicious circle, isn't it? You don't help a neighbor because it's not your problem. Then the next time you need to take a stand, you're less inclined to do so because you can't count on your neighbor to stand with you. Unfortunately this is one of those things that keeps going and going...

[dwildone]

It's a vicious circle, isn't it? You don't help a neighbor because it's not your problem. Then the next time you need to take a stand, you're less inclined to do so because you can't count on your neighbor to stand with you. Unfortunately this is one of those things that keeps going and going...

You know, my chosen profession requires that I take a stand and do the "right" thing on a daily basis; and in some cases it is very hard to make that call and withstand the reaction, and it seems that more and more often I look around and I am standing all by myself. And then I sit there and wonder what happened to those of my colleagues that I thought were right by my side and why it is suddenly "OK" for them to do so...

[Robert Levy]

They have a privacy policy which clearly states that they will be giving your email address to 3rd parties. The policy also says that those 3rd parties are required to include opt-out instructions in any emails they send. Sounds fair to me.

The only part I don't like is the adult nature of the email... that's just not cool.

[juni]

PPCThoughts Privacy policy states:

" Thoughts Media may use your e-mail address to send you information about Thoughts Media that we think you might be interested in."

Although I never got anything like that :)

[acronym]

Jason, why didn't you name the companies in your headline? Sure - they were easy to find in other posts, but being vague about 'some company' doesn't seem to make much of a stand.

[jkendrick]

Jason, why didn't you name the companies in your headline? Sure - they were easy to find in other posts, but being vague about 'some company' doesn't seem to make much of a stand.

I can't speak for Jason but as a business owner I can tell you that you must always be concerned about getting sued by bigger companies.

[JF in Detroit]

...Our society as a whole has come to use the "Its not my problem" excuse because too much of the time it really isn't worth getting involved if you don't have to, which has over time lead to genuine apathy in some cases. When is the last time that you remember a group of people publicly supporting a controversial person/subject only because it is the [i]right thing to do? What has changed so much over the past 40-50 years that has made us forget that sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, even if it is not the easiest or safest stand to take? And where would we be today if generations past had taken the same stand?i][/quote]

Oh I don't know, people take a stand everyday. Today's news has articles about 50 people in Detroit protesting the Patriot Act and another national group protesting seamy TV programs. People of character fight the good fight everyday.

[mbeatle]

I have been using a disposable email service for several years and I can't reccomend them highly enough. Its allowed me to keep my real email address free of spam &lt;knocking on wood>

http://www.spamex.com

[Jacob]

PPCThoughts Privacy policy states:

" Thoughts Media may use your e-mail address to send you information about Thoughts Media that we think you might be interested in."

Although I never got anything like that :)

Not that I think PPCThoughts media will be sending unwanted ads or anything, but it's those parts of privacy policies that make me cringe - unfortunately it's in every single one.

It's basically just saying "We reserve the right to send you advertisements" - I don't think most sites give half a thought as to "what you might be interested in"

[Chairman Clench]

Hi everyone,

As the original person who started this whole thing, both here and at Brighthand, I thought I would clarify a few issues:

1. The PocketTV privacy policy does clearly state that they can resell your e-mail address to other companies. I understand that they work hard to create an application that is used for free by an overwhelming majority. I also understand that they feel the need to help cover their development costs by using this as a source of income. Since they clearly state this in their privacy policy, I have refrained from calling this a spam issue, although I hate spam as much as anyone else.

2. The e-mail that was sent out DID NOT contain "porn." It is an advertisement for adult content. I clearly and consistently have referred to it as "adult content advertisement" because I did not want to give the impression that it was porn. I am not against porn and didn't want this to become a discussion about porn.

3. My point through all this is that advertising adult content in this way is irresponsible and way beneath both of these companies. Minors were undoubtably on the list and there were no precautions taken to ensure that they didn't receive it. In addition, I doubt most people, when they read the privacy policy, thought that reputable companies such as these would send out adult content advertisements.

4. What I am hoping for here is to encourage these 2 companies to put in place safeguards and clear policies to prevent this from happening in the future. Both companies have already apologized, now let's see the policy improvements.

[Janak Parekh]

" Thoughts Media may use your e-mail address to send you information about Thoughts Media that we think you might be interested in."

Although I never got anything like that :)
You just got a newsletter today. ;)

Seriously: we will never sell your email addresses. Period. We all hate hate hate hate spam. Did I mention hate?

--janak

[qmrq]

I am basically fine if people are sending 'regular' advertisements to my hotmail account, I can just click the 'delete' button, but when they start sending adult advertisements ... that's when the line is drawn. I personally hate those organ enlargement ads. And lately, they came at big numbers. Blocking them are useless, coz they are from dummy emails. Getting annoying. Someone should ddos those email spammer.

Hotmail has filters.. try playing with some of them. :)

[Jonathon Watkins]

Every try it? :roll: There is now a SERIOUS limit on the number of filters you can apply - and they don't catch most things as the spammers are getting more cunning. Not a good sugestion. :|

[Jason Dunn]

PPCThoughts Privacy policy states:

" Thoughts Media may use your e-mail address to send you information about Thoughts Media that we think you might be interested in."

Although I never got anything like that :)

Well, the only thing we've ever done like that is the newsletter we just launched today. :D It's more of a "cover my butt" thing - I'm not planning on ever using the membership database for mailings (other than the newsletter), and I'm not going to sell it to another company, that's for sure!

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, why didn't you name the companies in your headline? Sure - they were easy to find in other posts, but being vague about 'some company' doesn't seem to make much of a stand.

I pick my battles, and this wasn't a "hill I was willing to die on" to quote a statement I hear quite often. There were enough people kicking up a fuss that I didn't need to add my voice to the storm.

[Jason Dunn]

Not that I think PPCThoughts media will be sending unwanted ads or anything, but it's those parts of privacy policies that make me cringe - unfortunately it's in every single one. It's basically just saying "We reserve the right to send you advertisements" - I don't think most sites give half a thought as to "what you might be interested in"

True, but notice that I said "Thoughts Media" not "third parties". :-) It's a matter of trust, so I suppose you'll just have to trust that I'm not going to do anything bad. :wink:

[Jacob]

Not that I think PPCThoughts media will be sending unwanted ads or anything, but it's those parts of privacy policies that make me cringe - unfortunately it's in every single one. It's basically just saying "We reserve the right to send you advertisements" - I don't think most sites give half a thought as to "what you might be interested in"

True, but notice that I said "Thoughts Media" not "third parties". :-) It's a matter of trust, so I suppose you'll just have to trust that I'm not going to do anything bad. :wink:

This site isn't my concern. The email address I have set up lets me know if it came from here and I haven't seen anything unexpected go there - so I'll know ;)

You're right - most companies are less specific and say "us and our partners" Odd that they never mention that they have any partners on their website :?

[qmrq]

Every try it? :roll: There is now a SERIOUS limit on the number of filters you can apply - and they don't catch most things as the spammers are getting more cunning. Not a good sugestion. :|

Sure it's a good suggestion. 75% of the spam I get is easily grouped by keywords... I hardly ever see spam in my hotmail account, and it's very, very old.