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View Full Version : Why I Miss ActiveSync...For Laptops


Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 11:00 AM
There was a recent thread in our forums where someone was asking if there was anything similar to ActiveSync, only for laptops. It's funny, as much as we bash ActiveSync, I was unable to come up with a piece of software that would do the same thing as we get with ActiveSync and our Pocket PCs. <a href="http://pocketpcthoughts.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=992723/search=Fujitsu%205010D/ut=44938dd29d7a582a">Being the new owner of a swanky laptop</a>, I too am interested in a way of keeping my data in sync on the laptop and desktop. Years ago, I went through the struggle of copying my PST file from my desktop to laptop, trying to sync up all my folders, etc. It was a nightmare! Lately I've just been leaving my laptop empty of data and using it as a terminal to do Remote Desktop back into my home computer. Now that I have the P5010D, I want to <i><b>use</b></i> the thing.<br /><br />So the question is, what sort of solution exists out there that will duplicate what ActiveSync does? That means a record-level synchronization of Outlook data, not a brute-force copying of the PST file from point A to point B. That also means synchronizing certain folders. The latter is easy enough to do with a backup/sync too, but record-level sync in Outlook? A tall order! OsaSync was pointed out in another thread, and it looks interesting, but the <a href="http://www.vaita.com/GettingStarted.asp">getting started document</a> is about 50 pages long. 8O Not my idea of an easy to use product!<br /><br />Any hints for laptop owners? How do you keep your data in sync?<br /><br /><b>UPDATE:</b> I'm a SOHO user, so Exchange is not a viable solution for myself or the millions of other people like me. Despite what Microsoft believes, not everyone wants to have an Exchange server. ;-) Hower, a hosted exchange solution is interesting...

ChristopherTD
08-14-2003, 11:12 AM
I tried to solve this problem for a friend recently and came up with a number of partial solutions, but none that really worked. Some were file based sync, while others understood Outlook and could sync mail. But none offered all the answers and none looked robust or simple enough to run unattended.

I rely on a series of ROBOCOPY scripts to keep my two laptops in sync (one is a warm standby machine used by my wife), but this is not for the faint hearted. It works mostly because I don't work much on the other machine so I can just "push" my files onto that, and "pull" the files from it that belong to my wife. That way we are more or less up to date on either machine. It is, of course, completely manual.

If there is a shrinkwrapped solution somewhere I would be interested to hear of it. I don't use Outlook for mail so Exchange/PST sync mechanisms won't work for me.

juni
08-14-2003, 11:27 AM
Our laptop users use Win2000 built-in offline folders syncing. Outlook has that feature too.

Kash76
08-14-2003, 12:13 PM
Doesn't the Outlook folders only work if you have exchange running??

GeoffN
08-14-2003, 12:16 PM
What's the problem?
I have my laptop as my main sync-ing machine with ACtiveSync and have a desktop with ActiveSync as 'guest' sync-ing. (It could be the other way round). Everything gets sync-ed on both - except In-Box on the 'guest' syc.

dmr54
08-14-2003, 12:18 PM
Yes Outlook will only synch with an Exchange box as far as I am aware, it creates a .ost file on the remote machine which is basically an offline .pst file, as soon as the machine is connected back to the Exchange box it synch's all folders, mail, contacts, calander etc. This can then be set to do periodically whilst connected or when Outlook is closed.

I woudl love to find a proper way of doing this as I work all week on my laptop but atthe weekends I work on the desktop at home, I have used XP's file synch to keep things together at present which is a straight file copy of the .pst.

Ed Hansberry
08-14-2003, 12:21 PM
So the question is, what sort of solution exists out there that will duplicate what ActiveSync does?
A little product from MS called "Exchange." :D

Since all of your data is on Exchange, it is replicated to any PC you use to log into it with.

Might also check out http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/sync.htm

Kash76
08-14-2003, 12:26 PM
Personally I want something beyond outlook syncing. I would like to sync many files from my home network but the file sync in XP isn't all that great. As for using your PPC to sync between devices, I use that between work and my home laptop but that doesn't do much for my home desktop.

Ed Hansberry
08-14-2003, 12:38 PM
Personally I want something beyond outlook syncing. I would like to sync many files from my home network but the file sync in XP isn't all that great. As for using your PPC to sync between devices, I use that between work and my home laptop but that doesn't do much for my home desktop.
Robocopy from the NT4 and Win2K Resource Kits does a fantastic job of file sync. I've been using it for years.

baralong
08-14-2003, 01:01 PM
If you want to sync files I have to recomend Beyond Compare (http://www.scootersoftware.com/) I discovered this at fork for comparing and merging source code. The way I use it isn't automated but it's great for comparing directory trees etc.

I Sync the "My Documets" folder on my laptop with my desktop using this

Newsboy
08-14-2003, 01:06 PM
Get an HPC. ActiveSync works just fine on those. :)

Steven Cedrone
08-14-2003, 01:12 PM
What's the problem?
I have my laptop as my main sync-ing machine with ACtiveSync and have a desktop with ActiveSync as 'guest' sync-ing. (It could be the other way round). Everything gets sync-ed on both - except In-Box on the 'guest' syc.

Get an HPC. ActiveSync works just fine on those. :)

We're talking about syncing a laptop to a desktop, not about syncing a Pocket PC...

What is needed is an "ActiveSync like" product to do for the laptop what ActiveSync does for our Pocket PC's...

Steve

weapon X
08-14-2003, 01:14 PM
I sync between two laptops on my home network without needing Exchange. Basically I use Outlook 2000's File Sharing capabilities.

You need a local or home network (easy to do these days). You will also need a resident e-mail address on each laptop.

Go to File/Share and select which files you want to share (e.g., Notes, Contacts, etc...) on the main computer. You have options of what level of editability you want on the whatever computers you want to share the files with. Full "Editor" level allows editing and deleting of files. You would refer to the other laptop via a resident e-mail address associated with that laptop.

Updates are then e-mailed to each Outlook e-mail address for each computer. There is a slight delay of a few minutes depending on how fast your e-mail server and e-mail settings are on your computer.

The only drawback, is that the folders you share from the main computer have an alias folder name (not the original name). For example:

main laptop folder name: Contacts
I gave an alias on sharing computer: Contacts_ (with underscore)

Instead of using the "Contacts" folder in my sharing laptop, I use the "Contacts_" (with underscore) name.

At this point, my main computer is the one that I ActiveSync my PPC with (unless anyone knows how I can repath which folders in Outlook to sync).

It's been working pretty well, and more importantly, it's free!

anthonymoody
08-14-2003, 01:38 PM
There was a super tiny laptop by sharp (I think the MM1) that had a 10 inch screen, is like 1/2 inch thick, and weighs 2 pounds. It came with a docking cradle that connected to your desktop via usb, and software for syncing folders and files (including, theoretically, a pst file). They sold it as something to be used with a desktop as a companion, as opposed to your sole PC. Not sure how successful it was, but it was certainly the only attempt I've ever seen at creating a robust solution to this problem.

Everyone here has suggested some decent workarounds, but at the end of the day, it seems like there might be a nice little market opportunity here for a piece of software that could be sold with a usb cable that could easily connect to PCs and sync whatever you tell it it.

TM

carphead
08-14-2003, 01:39 PM
What is needed is an "ActiveSync like" product to do for the laptop what ActiveSync does for our Pocket PC's...

Steve

So does that mean it doesn't have to work? :)

Google is our friend (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=outlook+sync) throws up a interesting site at Outlook Sync (http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/sync.htm)

Can't say I ever used Outlook as I hate the interface and I use Lotus Notes for work and webmail for home stuff (Using IMAP Folders)

obarnes
08-14-2003, 02:09 PM
I have been using FileSync for years - it is a pull / push based tool but does the basic task ok...

http://www.fileware.com/products.htm#FileSync

I do agree with most though that a more automated method would be great... with the ability to have several profiles and a good level of user configurable filters to allow 'auto' or 'user promt' for the sync...

- Oliver.

tcrossey
08-14-2003, 02:12 PM
This is not a total solution but it can be useful for keeping work files synced. You can still use "MY Briefcase" on an XP machine. If you go to microsoft.com and search for "my briefcase" it show how to set it up on an XP machine and use it to synchronize any group of files you choose between machines. Of course the problem here is that we are still not matching Activesync completely. But, for now using My Briefcase and one of the other methods listed in the forum for mail, contacts, etc. you could at least get started until one of the programming geniuses comes up with an Activesync for real computers.

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 02:22 PM
What's the problem?
I have my laptop as my main sync-ing machine with ACtiveSync and have a desktop with ActiveSync as 'guest' sync-ing. (It could be the other way round). Everything gets sync-ed on both - except In-Box on the 'guest' syc.

Well gee whiz, I must me a complete idiot then if it's so darn easy for you! :roll:

Your solution doesn't work for keeping two complete Outlook directory trees in sync, because the Pocket PC only supports email on one. And I'm talking about far more files than a Pocket PC can be a transit for - you really think a Pocket PC can reliably handle 10 GB of data?

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 02:25 PM
A little product from MS called "Exchange." :D

Not a realistic solution for SOHO users. Next?

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 02:28 PM
I sync between two laptops on my home network without needing Exchange. Basically I use Outlook 2000's File Sharing capabilities.

Right - and Microsoft removed that from Outlook XP. I've been pissed off at them ever since. :evil: They claim they removed it because it wasn't stable, but I personally believe they removed it under pressure from the Exchange group who are deluded enough to think that Joe User is going to go out and buy Exchange now to do the same thing... :roll:

In a matter of months when Office 2003 comes out you're going to be two generations behind, with no ability to have that in the future, so I don't consider it a good solution for my needs. Enjoy it while you can. :|

racerx
08-14-2003, 02:43 PM
If you are trying to keep two sets of files or directories in sync, I recommend looking at Second Copy from Centered Systems (http://www.centered.com/).

"Second Copy® 2000 is the perfect backup product designed for Windows 9x/Me/NT4/2000/XP you have been looking for. It makes a backup of your data files to another directory, disk or computer across the network. It then monitors the source files and keeps the backup updated with new or changed files. It runs in the background with no user interaction. So, once it is setup you always have a backup of your data some where else."

I use this to keep files on my PC and laptop synced with files on my MicroDrive. I use my MicroDrive to shuttle files back and forth. Of course, you can go directly from the laptop to desktop and back as well. One big feature I like is you have the ability to have it keep a few copies "archived" so if you have to roll-back to a previous version, you can. Its always worked very well for me and you can even set it to automatically sync at startup and shutdown, so you don't have to remember to do it. Its great even to just make backup copies of important files.

Terry
08-14-2003, 02:43 PM
Outlook 2003 beta with offline sync and Exchange server. Works like a charm!

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 02:47 PM
There was a super tiny laptop by sharp...it seems like there might be a nice little market opportunity here for a piece of software that could be sold with a usb cable that could easily connect to PCs and sync whatever you tell it it.

Right on both counts! The Sharp was exactly what I was thinking of, but despite spending a few minutes at their site, I can't figure out what software they're using to perform the sync. Anyone know?

And yes, I thnk there's a GREAT opportunity here for a developer to make something that addresses the needs of laptop/desktop owners.

bormooski
08-14-2003, 02:58 PM
What would be wrong with setting up a server to serve up some roaming profiles? thats pretty simple. Im sure no one here wants to 'pay' for a copy of windows 2k or 2k3, so just install linux with samba and set up some profiles. its not really an active sync type deal, but it works pretty damn well in corporations. i can log on to any machine i want at work, and my profile along with my email folows me whereever i go. The only catch is that both machines must be part of the same domain, so if you bring a laptop home from work, and its part of the corp domain, then we are back at square one. :?

csterns
08-14-2003, 03:08 PM
Gosh with a swanky new laptop who needs a desktop? :D Seriously, with the power of capability of laptops (I'm drooling over Toshiba's new 17" multi-media laptop - somebody hold me back) I see little reason for desktops - to me they are obsolete.

As for synching Outlook between two computers, I use ACT! which allows you to synch between to computers (you can schedule it to perform automatically or manually) and then a program that exchanges info from ACT! to Outlook and another program that syncs with PocketPC. I find ACT! to be a much better contact manager program, more powerful and easier to use. It bugs the heck out of me when you want to put a telephone number in you have to type in parentheses (unless I’m missing something here) with every telephone number. It would seem to me that something that basic should be a function of the computer. Is that what computers are suppose to do, make our lives easier? :lol:

Outlook really misses the boat in a lot of areas and is about one step up from a paper system in my opinion. However, there are other aspects of Outlook that make it necessary to use which is why I have it around.

Here’s an interesting question – is there a replacement or a work around for Outlook especially with when we all have PocketPC’s?

billboonn
08-14-2003, 03:19 PM
Jason,

A full blown Exchange server is definitely out of the question for a SOHO user, but how about a Hosted Exchange Solution? This is what I currently have set up for all of us at MedicalPocketPC.com (http://www.medicalpocketpc.com). I also have several computers and it's great to be able to have access to all of my email folders, contacts, and calendar from anywhere. When I'm away from my personal computers, I can also access all of my data using Outlook Web Access. And most importantly, everything is synced SEAMLESSLY.

I currently use the hosting provider ASP-One (http://www.asp-one.com/hosting_hostedMS2000_Overview.htm) which charges only $9.95 per user per month for 100MB of storage. Not a bad deal considering how much time I save not having to deal with OST files, briefcases, etc. And best of all, when they upgrade to Exchange 2003 (http://microsoft.com/exchange/), I'll be able to sync my Pocket PC wirelessly....

Bill

Kiyoshi
08-14-2003, 03:19 PM
Gosh with a swanky new laptop who needs a desktop? Seriously, with the power of capability of laptops (I'm drooling over Toshiba's new 17" multi-media laptop - somebody hold me back) I see little reason for desktops - to me they are obsolete

Check all the anti-Toshiba posts all over the forum about complaints over customer service and not offering a WM2003 upgrade to customers. There's also the 6000+ person petition that's going onhere (http://www.petitiononline.com/e300e740/petition.html).

You could also do a search on the forum for "Never buying Toshiba" and I'm sure plenty of posts will come up!

bdegroodt
08-14-2003, 03:21 PM
A little product from MS called "Exchange." :D

Not a realistic solution for SOHO users. Next?

Why do you say that Jason? Do you mean from a cost perspective or ? If it's cost and maintaining it that worries you, there is at least one company that I'm aware of that will host an Exchange server for you for a reasonable cost. Perfect for SOHO types. Take a look at Lanlogic (http://www.lanlogic.net/mail/default.asp)as one possible solution. Maybe?

Bill Gunn
08-14-2003, 03:32 PM
Well gee whiz, I must me a complete idiot then if it's so darn easy for you! :roll:

Your solution doesn't work for keeping two complete Outlook directory trees in sync, because the Pocket PC only supports email on one. And I'm talking about far more files than a Pocket PC can be a transit for - you really think a Pocket PC can reliably handle 10 GB of data?

10 GB? You need to sync 10 GB to 2 different computers? Um... I doubt there's a huge market for that particular capability.

mclaughlinc
08-14-2003, 03:35 PM
Jason,

I just purchased ths software to sync my Outlook information from one computer to another. I have only been using it for about 3 weeks but it seems to work OK. I sync a PST file that is 500 MB in size and it takes about 5 to 10 minutes to synce the two. And of coarse you have to shut down Outlook on both computers.

I hope this helps.

It would help if I put the link in www.synchpst.com

bdeli
08-14-2003, 03:36 PM
Gosh with a swanky new laptop who needs a desktop? :D Seriously, with the power of capability of laptops (I'm drooling over Toshiba's new 17" multi-media laptop - somebody hold me back) I see little reason for desktops - to me they are obsolete.


That thing looks ugly and I do not think you will be happy lagging around a 10 pound notebook on your shoulders unless you are at the gym every day. Personally I would get the 17" Powerbook and if you do not want a mac than get the Dell Inspiron 15.4" or Compaq Presario x1000 15.4".

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 03:37 PM
I currently use the hosting provider ASP-One (http://www.asp-one.com/hosting_hostedMS2000_Overview.htm) which charges only $9.95 per user per month for 100MB of storage...

Ah, now that's a solution I hadn't considered - hmm. That might be the ticket! :way to go: Have you found them to be good and reliable? 100 MB isn't very much (I'd have to pare down my data - I assume you can have PST-side folders, right?). How does data backup work? That's my biggest fear actually - losing my Outlook data (had it partially happen once, I nearly died 8O).

ChristopherTD
08-14-2003, 03:40 PM
Personally I think the notion of paying a 3rd party to maintain Exchange is splendid - they have the fun of maintaining it and keeping it running.

But the notion of me subscribing to such a service solely to keep two of my computers in sync makes no sense to me. You are managing a connection between two computers over a WAN when they are most likely connected via a much faster LAN. If the amount of data is small the time overhead isn't significant, but there remains the added dependency on WAN/ISP etc. that I don't want to be troubled with.

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 03:41 PM
A little product from MS called "Exchange." :D

Not a realistic solution for SOHO users. Next?

Why do you say that Jason? Do you mean from a cost perspective or ? If it's cost and maintaining it that worries you, there is at least one company that I'm aware of that will host an Exchange server for you for a reasonable cost. Perfect for SOHO types. Take a look at Lanlogic (http://www.lanlogic.net/mail/default.asp)as one possible solution. Maybe?

Yeah, the cost + knowledge of do-it-yourself Exchange isn't realistic for Joe Small Business Guy like me. But a hosted solution, that's a very interesting idea! I'm looking into it...

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 03:42 PM
It would help if I put the link in www.synchpst.com

Ohhh.....now THAT looks interesting! :D Thanks!

mel
08-14-2003, 03:45 PM
The perfect solution is to just stop using the desktop. Make the laptop your primary computer and do everything on it. Thus all your docs, files, settings etc are always there when you need them. When you're at home, use a docking station or port replicator to connect a mouse, keyboard, monitor etc to the laptop. Thus you get the "desktop experience" while you work at home on your laptop.

When you need to travel, just pick up and go - no syncing, copying hassle. I've done this for several years now, and it's very convenient. I only turn on my old desktop computer once a week to backup files from the laptop.

Basically, get a reasonably powerful laptop that can serve as a desktop replacement. 512 MB RAM, CDRW/DVD etc. Never have to use the desktop again.

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 03:48 PM
But the notion of me subscribing to such a service solely to keep two of my computers in sync makes no sense to me. You are managing a connection between two computers over a WAN when they are most likely connected via a much faster LAN. If the amount of data is small the time overhead isn't significant, but there remains the added dependency on WAN/ISP etc. that I don't want to be troubled with.

Well, you're only right about the scenario where they're both in the same physical location. But the advantage of a hosted Exchange scenario is that you have access to the same data on both devices, no matter where you are. So if you're travelling and need to access your email, you can do so from anywhere - including a Web browsing using OWA (Outlook Web Access).

The file sync is really not a big deal - any decent backup software will do a file-level sync between point "A" and "B".

ChristopherTD
08-14-2003, 03:50 PM
10 GB? You need to sync 10 GB to 2 different computers? Um... I doubt there's a huge market for that particular capability.

This is easy enough to reach if you are trying to keep two PCs in sync so that you can work on them with all your data available. There may well be much more than 10GB of data, each sync may only copy a few MB of changed files, but the whole lot needs to be checked on each sync.

This all happens quickly on a LAN (I keep two 60GB ThinkPads in sync with a batch script which typically takes 2-5 minutes to copy only the changed files). This is not a viable solution via cable/broadband or dial-up.

A dedicated server is clearly a better solution than my batch file but few home users have the time/space/inclination to maintain such a thing.

crispeto
08-14-2003, 03:54 PM
I've been using Intellisync for Yahoo. Now I can update my laptop, Axim, desktop, and my web pim information and it doesn't matter which order I go. If I update my desktop, I use intellisync to update my pim info to Yahoo and then to my laptop and then to my PDA. Or I can start with my PDA or Laptop first - doesn't matter. Great backup source too! Of course I'm only talking syncing pim stuff. I use my wireless network to transfer any files.

Bandito
08-14-2003, 04:00 PM
Robocopy from the NT4 and Win2K Resource Kits does a fantastic job of file sync. I've been using it for years.

Ed, check out http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en . They have an updated version of the Resource Kit Tools for Windows Server 2003, including a brand new ROBOCOPY! Works on 2000 and XP as well.

rudolph
08-14-2003, 04:03 PM
You can look at QSynchronization too:
http://www.outlookfolders.de/Lang/German/QSync/qsync1.htm

I've never tried it, but I will when I get my notebook (Dell Inspiron 600m).

Kash76
08-14-2003, 04:04 PM
I will check them out. Thanks!

BradPPC
08-14-2003, 04:08 PM
This may be further off topic, but how about TimeMatters (www.timematters.com). I've used this software at work and it does a very good job. This is a full suite of a contact management and calendering system built on a Top Speed database. However, it is a replacement of most of your Microsoft software, and the software just happens to come with a syncronization tool for laptops and handhelds. It is not a syncronization tool for Microsoft products. I just mention it because I've used it for years, and I know that it will do the job flawlessly.

Brad

Simone Ue
08-14-2003, 04:17 PM
http://www.itsth.de/en/produkte/easy2sync.php

Unlike what the name suggests, this is a very suffisticated syn program, which offers about everything a pro needs on the file-sync level. The use of it, however, is very simple, no need to read manuals, use common sense and you are there!

GO-TRIBE
08-14-2003, 04:30 PM
If all the data you need is on your PPC, just sync with ActiveSync on both the desktop and laptop. This works is you're only using basic Outlook features, but if you're using custom folders and such you'll really need Exchange.

billboonn
08-14-2003, 04:34 PM
Ah, now that's a solution I hadn't considered - hmm. That might be the ticket! Have you found them to be good and reliable? 100 MB isn't very much (I'd have to pare down my data - I assume you can have PST-side folders, right?). How does data backup work? That's my biggest fear actually - losing my Outlook data (had it partially happen once, I nearly died ).

Jason,

I only have great things to say about these guys. Their customer support has been fantastic- always reachable by email or phone.

They do daily tape backups and are hosted on pretty heavy duty servers (here are their full tech specs (http://www.asp-one.com/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Hosted%20Exchange%20Fact%20sheet.doc.pdf)in PDF)

The data max is aggregated by organization so if you have three accounts, you get 300MB total (ie: one user can have 280MB and the others 10MB). Of course you can purchase extra data storage at $9.95 / 100MB and $49.95 / 1GB)

I must sound like their marketing manager, but honestly I'm just a satisfied customer.

Once you've done Exchange, you can never go back.... :treadmill:

Bill

Perry Reed
08-14-2003, 04:47 PM
I've been using Intellisync for Yahoo. Now I can update my laptop, Axim, desktop, and my web pim information and it doesn't matter which order I go. If I update my desktop, I use intellisync to update my pim info to Yahoo and then to my laptop and then to my PDA. Or I can start with my PDA or Laptop first - doesn't matter. Great backup source too! Of course I'm only talking syncing pim stuff. I use my wireless network to transfer any files.

I have to second this recommendation. It's not great for vast amounts of data, but then I don't change vast amounts, so once everything is synced the first time (done manually) only small changes need to go through Intellisync and Yahoo. I'm not using it currently (I made my laptop the master for all of my data), but it has worked well for me in the past.

I'm going to look into that hosted Exchange server, though. I've been wanting to get rid of POP3/IMAP for a long time now and that looks promising.

Wojo
08-14-2003, 04:47 PM
Have you played with pcAnywhere. I've used it in the past for this exact task. Now this was ver. 8 or 9... I'm not sure if the file synchronization function is a file replacement or an actual data sync, but it did the trick for my clients in the past.

http://www.symantec.com/pcanywhere/Consumer/

JonnoB
08-14-2003, 04:55 PM
You can try the solution available from Fusion One (http://www.fusionone.com). It allows syncing between many different clients and uses an internet store as the middle-ware. Sync is possible between Notes, Outlook, Palm (no Pocket PC yet), phone, etc. You can even access your data via a website.

SeanJ
08-14-2003, 04:56 PM
The easiest answer seems to be to ditch Outlook completely!

Why not use Lotus Notes? You can configure it send/receive email without the need of a Domino server, and you can create as many replicas of your mail file on as many machines as you like. The standard Notes replication process will keep everything in sync between all your machines, including any folders you create, or any other customizing you do.

Francisco M.
08-14-2003, 05:23 PM
Instead of Syncing with your laptop, make your laptop the PST SOURCE. I've been doing this for years with my two machines (desktop and laptop).

Works like this. Close outlook. MOVE (not copy..back it up if you like) your PST file over to a shared (network shared) direcory on the laptop.

Then open Outlook on your desktop. It will ask for the location of the apperantly missing PST file. Point it to the shared directory on the laptop.

Your done. Now everying you do in outlook will be saved to your laptop. You can almost instantly unplug your laptop and go (close Outlook on your deskptop, otherwise it will complain). Open Outlook on the laptop (make sure its pointing to the same PST file in that shared directory) and voila, all your stuff, EXACLY as you saw on your desktop.

I actually do this with my files as well. So my laptop is essentialy a file server when at home, but a full system when on the go. My desktop is then more like a semi dumb terminal.
A nightly backup asssures me that all is kept safe if the laptop goes fatal or missing.

is good ya?
Francisco

Kemas
08-14-2003, 05:23 PM
I already host a web site for myself so I own a domain. The obviously provide e-mail, but they don't have IMAP support. This would solve the problem as far as e-mail goes for me and others, but it is harder and harder to come by.

so my question is, if I were to choose a host provider for e-mail; would I have to create a new domain for that e-mail or could I use the same domain for my e-mail that I use for my site?

Does my question make sense?

Kemas

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 05:24 PM
The perfect solution is to just stop using the desktop.

Nah, not feasible. For my needs, in order to have a true desktop replacement, I'd need one of those 10 pound mother laptops with a desktop CPU, and if I had that, I wouldn't be able to do with my P5010D (carry it around easily, run for 10 hours on a single charge, etc.). Different needs for different folks, but I really like having a desktop computer that I can upgrade - I try to get 3-4 years out of my desktop computers through upgrades, and you can't do that with a laptop.

emmfan
08-14-2003, 05:29 PM
I second the notion on FusionOne (www.fusionone.com). I've been using this for some time now and it's pretty reliable. So long as you're comfortable with leaving a copy of your data on their servers. It's pretty good at synchronizing pim data, files and browser favorites. And I think for the basic service which covers pim data, it's free!

prototype
08-14-2003, 05:35 PM
I have a laptop and desktop at home and I sync my data from the laptop to a shared drive on my desktop.

Assuming you have XP on the laptop ... just share out a drive on your desktop, right click on MY DOCUMENTS on your laptop and relocate the target of it to the shared drive on the desktop. After you do that right click on it again and choose Make available offline.

now anything you put in My Documents on the laptop will sync with the drive on your desktop ... when both are on your network. Works fine.

-Drew

Kemas
08-14-2003, 05:38 PM
I think there are two exceptoins.. PSTs and access databases. I do what you are talking about making my Desktop the king computer and my notebook a simple minion; but from my corporate days I recall not being able to do anyting with the PSTs.

racerx
08-14-2003, 05:41 PM
Actually, if cost is your main issue with running your own Exchange server, then fret no more! :lol:

Subscribe to Microsoft's Action Pack. For about $300, you get gobs of Microsoft software and Exchange and Windows Server is included.

Now you just need the hardware to run Exchange Server on... :roll:

Jeff Rutledge
08-14-2003, 05:46 PM
From what I've read, it looks like the hosting solution is the best solution suggested so far.

One alternative you may want to consider is using a portable media to share the data. I use Exchange so I don't have a need for this exact requirement, but I do use an external PCMCIA drive for the data I need on-the-go.

I have a 40GB drive from CMS peripherals (http://www.cmsperipheralsinc.com/detail.aspx?ID=371). I use it to mostly store VMWare Virtual machine images (which are quite large). I have VMWare installed on multiple workstations (my home computer, my work laptop and desktop and my workstation in Toronto). I just use the CMS portable Hard Drive and everything I need is there.

I don't see any reason you couldn't do that same thing with PST data or any other data for that matter. They have backup drives available in capacities up to 80GB.

Also, for Desktop access, you need to buy the USB adapter (http://www.cmsproducts.com/detail.aspx?ID=387).

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 05:51 PM
10 GB? You need to sync 10 GB to 2 different computers? Um... I doubt there's a huge market for that particular capability.

Why not? It's actually 12 GB - lots of documents, but the real size is from the photos and a few videos. Mostly the photos. :-) I don't think it's strange for a user to want to have all of his/her documents on both a laptop and desktop. With hard drives soaring past 80 GB on entry-level machines now, I think you'll find that consumers EXPECT to have lots of data now...

rudolph
08-14-2003, 05:52 PM
Outlook Plus!
http://www.outlook-plus.com/outlook/

It looks like an Activesync-like software...
the If you look on the product page the "notebook syncronization" isn't available yet, but it's due 8/15/2003 (tomorrow!). It seems to do the job from what they are saying.
I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to try it out tho.

Ed Hansberry
08-14-2003, 05:59 PM
Robocopy from the NT4 and Win2K Resource Kits does a fantastic job of file sync. I've been using it for years.

Ed, check out http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en . They have an updated version of the Resource Kit Tools for Windows Server 2003, including a brand new ROBOCOPY! Works on 2000 and XP as well.
Cool. I'll download that and take a look. I really have no need for the whole thing. I hope i can just snag the robocopy.exe and README file from it.

Bill Gunn
08-14-2003, 06:40 PM
10 GB? You need to sync 10 GB to 2 different computers? Um... I doubt there's a huge market for that particular capability.

Why not? It's actually 12 GB - lots of documents, but the real size is from the photos and a few videos. Mostly the photos. :-) I don't think it's strange for a user to want to have all of his/her documents on both a laptop and desktop. With hard drives soaring past 80 GB on entry-level machines now, I think you'll find that consumers EXPECT to have lots of data now...

That's what the Internet is for. I can get to all of my files from any computer with a web browser. Remember "The browser is the operating system";
haven't I heard that somewhere?

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 06:52 PM
If all the data you need is on your PPC, just sync with ActiveSync on both the desktop and laptop. This works is you're only using basic Outlook features, but if you're using custom folders and such you'll really need Exchange.

What about the Pocket PC "Inbox sync only on one computer" limitation?

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 07:01 PM
Instead of Syncing with your laptop, make your laptop the PST SOURCE. I've been doing this for years with my two machines (desktop and laptop).

Hrm. I've thought about that approach too, but I don't like it as a solution because the laptop has to be running 24/7, which laptop hardware isn't really designed to do. The reason why I was seeking a sync solution is that it allows me to use either desktop or laptop, and the changes will sync up. I understand your approach, and it's innovative (I tried it last year), but ultimately I abandoned it. I'm glad it works for you though!

Jason Dunn
08-14-2003, 07:03 PM
Actually, if cost is your main issue with running your own Exchange server, then fret no more! :lol:

As an MVP, I have MSN Universal, so not having Exchange isn't the issue. The hardware isn't the issue either - it's my lack of knowledge about how to run and administer an Exchange server, putting all my machines onto a domain, and all that jazz. And it's just not something I have time to learn either. :|

jfreiman
08-14-2003, 07:21 PM
I have a laptop and desktop at home and I sync my data from the laptop to a shared drive on my desktop.

Assuming you have XP on the laptop ... just share out a drive on your desktop, right click on MY DOCUMENTS on your laptop and relocate the target of it to the shared drive on the desktop. After you do that right click on it again and choose Make available offline.

now anything you put in My Documents on the laptop will sync with the drive on your desktop ... when both are on your network. Works fine.

-Drew

This is the way I was going to suggest. Works great for me! And if that's not a solution your happy with, you can always use the Micosoft Briefcase - which by the way is still in XP. :wink:

Kati Compton
08-14-2003, 07:32 PM
But this would share on a file basis, not a record basis. So if you made changes both on the laptop and the desktop when the laptop wasn't connected to the network, you'd have a conflict and could lose some of the changes.

Kemas
08-14-2003, 10:03 PM
Jason,

For taking care of videos and photos I use the mirroing option of windows and it works pretty well. Not the speediest, especially if you are like me and have every single photo, document and what not (I scan every bill) copied from my host computer (desktop) to my client computer (notebook). As I said before I don't believe it will do PSTs or access database becuase it doesn't do bit for bit changes, just file changes.

So this doesn't solve your outlook issue; but I agree with you... I want access to every file I have where ever I go. So I have a great deal of information like you.

Kemas (Kelly)

RussHart
08-14-2003, 10:20 PM
I actually went through this all when I got my new laptop (Samsung X10). I, after a week of playing with Exchange Server myself then giving up, also decided on a Managed Exchange Server solution, but hosted by eOutlook (http://www.eoutlook.com), and so far I've had nothing to complain about, and that's accessing my email from the UK and they're hosted in Illinois.

Only thing I would say to you, is to find a provider who is planning on upgrading to Exchange Server 2003 soon-ish. The performance enhancements, and wireless PDA support will be killer for those of us with PDAs and 802.11 cards in them.

I've had to problems, and for copting my other non-Outlook files, I just simply try to do so manually, but keep my Documents accessible via SCP just in case I forget something (OK, I still keep FTP on incase I can't get a SCP client... :oops: )

beq
08-14-2003, 10:43 PM
Just talking about Outlook sync, besides in-house or outsourced Exchange Server, you can also try a solution like www.Bynari.net 's InsightConnector plugin for Outlook that lets it sync all data (email, Calendar, Contacts, etc, etc) to any plain ol' IMAP server. Well, they officially support only their InsightServer (which is based on Cyrus) so any Cyrus should work fine even w/ ACL support. Others have also gotten it to work w/ Merak, etc. Plus Bynari has licensed/codeveloped the technology for other companies who are making Exchange-replacement mail servers. There was a discussion of this here awhile back... Also there are a couple others who've independently developed similar plugins that do on-the-fly translation from Outlook to IMAP and back...

For example, I've used this setup to sync to www.FastMail.fm (a Cyrus IMAP email service). I can sync the same Outlook data among any PC (home PC, laptop, work PC, etc). And am trying to convice FM developers to suport the stored Outlook Calendar/Contacts data on their server for their webmail calendar / addressbook features -- there was interest awhile back but it died :(

P.S. Apparently the NE power outage is blocking connection to FM's NY colocation data center right now...

jsjxyz
08-15-2003, 12:47 AM
I really miss the old Pointcast.com for my notebook!!! That whats next Avantgo or Mazingo should be like IMHO

Jerry
Pocket PC eBooks Watch

ignar
08-15-2003, 02:32 AM
I already host a web site for myself so I own a domain. The obviously provide e-mail, but they don't have IMAP support. This would solve the problem as far as e-mail goes for me and others, but it is harder and harder to come by.

so my question is, if I were to choose a host provider for e-mail; would I have to create a new domain for that e-mail or could I use the same domain for my e-mail that I use for my site?

Does my question make sense?

Kemas

IMAP is getting harder and harder to come by? :roll: Most of hosting companies now support IMAP. I used to avoid CPanel based hostings only because it doesn't provide IMAP, but CPanel now supports IMAP as well. If your hosting doesn't provide IMAP, look around. There are plenty of them out there.

I agree IMAP is a great way to sync emails. I use Outlook Express, Squirrel mail, and Outlook from more than four machines and without IMAP, it should have been a real hassle.

As for the file sync, as someone suggests, I'm using ftpsync from fileware.com. Whenever I have work done, I sync MyDocu folder to the FTP space on my hosting server so that web always has the latest versions of documents. The beauty of this setting is because I set the web space under browsable directory (of course, the directory is password protected), I can access and download files from anywhere as long as internet connection is available. This setting is not perfect since if I forgot to update web, and update the same document at more than one machines, some data can be get lost while syncing. But I got used to the steps, and it works pretty well for me and my wife.

ctmagnus
08-15-2003, 03:01 AM
I have one question (two if you're nitpicky ;) ) regarding the (hosted) Exchange solutions:

How does Exchange handle categories?

With Outlook 2002 in Internet Only mode, Outlook categories are stored in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\10.0\Outlook\Categories, rather than in the file system as as all other Outlook data is. Does Exchange account for that in any way?

Ed Hansberry
08-15-2003, 03:33 AM
I have one question (two if you're nitpicky ;) ) regarding the (hosted) Exchange solutions:

How does Exchange handle categories?

With Outlook 2002 in Internet Only mode, Outlook categories are stored in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\10.0\Outlook\Categories, rather than in the file system as as all other Outlook data is. Does Exchange account for that in any way?
How do you put Outlook 2002 in IMO? That was done away with. No more corp/IMO. Just one mode. The categories are still stored in that reg key in binary format though. I don't honestly know if that is copied to the server or not.

Just checked. Nope. If you use another client PC, your master category list is the Outlook default. Your categories assigned are unaffected, they just may not be in the master list.

ctmagnus
08-15-2003, 04:41 AM
How do you put Outlook 2002 in IMO? That was done away with. No more corp/IMO. Just one mode.

D'oh! flashback from having used Outlook 2000 for too long. :oops: I now use Outlook 2002 of course (and :ppclove: the lack of the two different modes), but the other machines here are still Outlook 2000. Somehow, when I use Outlook 2000, I have visions of going through the installation again. :confused totally:

Just checked. Nope. If you use another client PC, your master category list is the Outlook default. Your categories assigned are unaffected, they just may not be in the master list.

That's what I figured would happen. Unfortunately, if you then want to assign a non-masterlist category to an item, you have to either enter it in the masterlist or assign it to an item manually, which could result in typos.

Terry
08-15-2003, 06:30 AM
Here's a whole page of suggestions...
http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/sync.htm

beq
08-15-2003, 07:43 AM
BTW note that Exchange connectivity requires port 135 among others, which was why I'd had to leave it open on our work router so laptop users can connect to our Exchange, as I recall:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=107286#107286

Now I just saw warning from abovementioned ASP-One:
http://www.asp-one.com/customer_support.htm

Due to increased security concerns w/ RPC vulnerability (Blaster being only the latest exploit), they're saying more and more ISPs are blocking this port, thus blocking hosted Exchange solutions unless you set up VPN in between... thoughts?


P.S. While mentioning all these file sync utils, how about Iomega's simple real-time sync app Automatic Backup (http://www.iomega.com/software/autobackuppc.html). PC Mag recently compared (http://www.pcmag.com/category2/0,4148,4798,00.asp) it to VCom's similar AutoSave (http://www.v-com.com/product/as_ind.html). Personally for manual folder syncing I'm too lazy to switch from using Ontrack's PowerDesk Pro 5 (which was acquired by VCom)...

qmrq
08-15-2003, 09:14 AM
rsync for windows (http://optics.ph.unimelb.edu.au/help/rsync/)

Ed Hansberry
08-15-2003, 12:24 PM
BTW note that Exchange connectivity requires port 135 among others, which was why I'd had to leave it open on our work router so laptop users can connect to our Exchange, as I recall:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=107286#107286You should be using VPN to get to your Exchange computer from outside the network. If hosted solutions did it otherwise, I susptect they will be modifying the way they handle that.

brianchris
08-15-2003, 04:31 PM
I must say, the hosted Exchange idea proposed in this thread has to be one of the single best ideas to solve a problem ever floated on PPCT. So good, I am seriously considering doing that for myself. I did come up with some downsides to a hosted Exchange solution that don't seem to have been discussed yet (well, one downside really):

So, you've got your desktop and laoptop's Outlook hooked up to your hosted Exchange. Someone sends you a 5MB attachment (pick your attachment size here, as long as its large), what happens next is your Outlook client downloads that attachment from your ISP's mail server (be it POP3, IMAP....whatever). Then, once completed, Outlook imediately uploads it to your Exchange server, meaning the same 5MB attachmanet is transport again across the Internet.

Now, if you're on broadband while doing this, its a little slower than having a local .PST. BUT, if you are using a laptop on GPRS, that single 5MB attacment doubles into 10MB of GPRS charges. True, for those on T-Mobile's unlimited GPRS plan, this isn't an issue (besides being slow to upload / download 10MB), but for those of us on AT&T Wireless which hasn't yet seen the light of unlimited GPRS data plans, this is an issue.

Any thoughts? Perhpas I'm incorrect on how some things mentioned function? Other than this small issue, awsome idea!

-Brian

Perry Reed
08-15-2003, 04:39 PM
So, you've got your desktop and laoptop's Outlook hooked up to your hosted Exchange. Someone sends you a 5MB attachment (pick your attachment size here, as long as its large), what happens next is your Outlook client downloads that attachment from your ISP's mail server (be it POP3, IMAP....whatever). Then, once completed, Outlook imediately uploads it to your Exchange server, meaning the same 5MB attachmanet is transport again across the Internet.
Any thoughts? Perhpas I'm incorrect on how some things mentioned function? Other than this small issue, awsome idea!

How about having your email forwarded directly from the ISP to the Exchange host, without downloading to Outlook first? With my ISP I have telnet access into my account and can set up my own .forward config file for my email (I'm using a Virtual Private Server running FreeBSD). While I know not everyone can access their account that way, there ought to be a way to request that your email be forwarded by your ISP.

Actually, that would be a pretty decent service for the Exchange host to offer. For ISPs that won't forward it, the Exchange host could have a process that retrieves the email from the ISP via POP3 and puts it into your Exchange inbox.

brianchris
08-15-2003, 05:10 PM
Actually, that would be a pretty decent service for the Exchange host to offer. For ISPs that won't forward it, the Exchange host could have a process that retrieves the email from the ISP via POP3 and puts it into your Exchange inbox.

Agreed!! The Exchange host could implement something similar to the POP3 Connector for Exchange (included in MS Small Bussiness Server 2000, and perhaps stand-alone Exchange as well?). With that implemented, this is a killer config!

-Brian

brianchris
08-15-2003, 05:58 PM
As I indicated, I'm so interested in this, I've been looking into it. Turns out, at least with ASP-one, they've had to close port 135 due to the MS Blaster virus. Now, they require PPTP (Windows) VPN, which definetly complicates things :( Not a deal breaker, but something to consider.

-Brian

ignar
08-15-2003, 06:20 PM
As for email syncing, I'm not clear what the benefits of exchange server over IMAP and webmail setting are. The latter looks much less expensive and working just fine.

brianchris
08-15-2003, 07:24 PM
As for email syncing, I'm not clear what the benefits of exchange server over IMAP and webmail setting are. The latter looks much less expensive and working just fine.

IMAP and webmail work fine......for some. For others, webmail's a little clunky for routine use, and, at least for me, IMAP suffers for the same problem as POP3: access to an outgoing SMTP server.

You see, I'm a Charter cable Internet customer and Charter, in their infinite wisdom, decided to lock down their SMTP server only to their WAN. In other words, not using a Charter Cable Internet connection (GPRS or other broadband connections)? You can't send email. There are other ways to secure SMTP servers (namely username & password) but Charter wanted to make things inconvenient.

Sure I've found other solutions (www.postcast.com is a free Windows SMTP server, but it doesn't work on the Pocket PC), but NOTHING has solved so many issues in one fell swoop (is that how you spell that :?: ) as the hosted Exchange solution (Outlook data offsite and backed up; same Outlook data on desktop, laptop, PDA, OWA; able to send Charter email in Outlook / PPC Inbox from any Internet connection; etc. etc.). In a nutshell, its worth $10 / month for me, but that's just my opinion.

-Brian

ignar
08-15-2003, 07:35 PM
I'm on the Charter internet as well and have no problem sending emails using my domain SMTP server. Probably a local thing and I'm in the lucky side. :wink: You can always send emails using Webmail without worrying about SMTP block, but I see your point that you don't like webmail.

beq
08-16-2003, 10:48 PM
BTW note that Exchange connectivity requires port 135 among others, which was why I'd had to leave it open on our work router so laptop users can connect to our Exchange, as I recall:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=107286#107286You should be using VPN to get to your Exchange computer from outside the network. If hosted solutions did it otherwise, I susptect they will be modifying the way they handle that.
Yeah the hosted Exchange providers I saw are scrambling to add VPN option because of this. Unfortunately it seems some will only offer it for an additional monthly cost. And otherwise they're just hoping the block will be temporary for most ISPs... Examples:
http://www.mailstreet.net/ms/urgent.asp
http://www.asp-one.com/customer_support.htm (same one I mentioned earlier)
Might want to also check others mentioned here - www.eoutlook.com, www.lanlogic.net, www.intermedia.net

And you know what, I'll have to set up the same (as you suggested) -- company boss just complained to me he can't remotely connect to Exchange 8O Yeah yeah, I never got around to it (you try to get your non-tech small firm to give a hoot about IT resources) :D

P.S. Others have claimed that Exchange 2003 provides alternative means of remote connectivity. Is this only when coupled w/ Outlook 2003? Can someone explain it?

beq
08-16-2003, 10:50 PM
Actually, that would be a pretty decent service for the Exchange host to offer. For ISPs that won't forward it, the Exchange host could have a process that retrieves the email from the ISP via POP3 and puts it into your Exchange inbox.
Agreed!! The Exchange host could implement something similar to the POP3 Connector for Exchange (included in MS Small Bussiness Server 2000, and perhaps stand-alone Exchange as well?). With that implemented, this is a killer config!
-Brian
This is an interesting issue, can existing users give us their opinions? Also MS seems to not recommend set-up with the POP3 connector...

Ed Hansberry
08-17-2003, 12:12 AM
P.S. Others have claimed that Exchange 2003 provides alternative means of remote connectivity. Is this only when coupled w/ Outlook 2003? Can someone explain it?
IIRC, Exchange 2003 will, when on a Windows 2003 box, allow syncing over HTTP. I don't think this works with E2k3 on a Win2K box.

Deemo
03-11-2005, 08:35 PM
Jason,
Googling brought me to this old thread.
Having purchased this:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/home/store_access.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0104513684.1110569676@@@@&amp;BV_EngineID=ccccaddediggmihcfngcfkmdflldfjk.0&amp;template_type=product_detail&amp;page=home&amp;site=main&amp;product_code=PR425UA%23ABA

I too am looking at sync options. Basically Outlook and spreadshhets/documents that have changing after a group meeting in which I edit on the fly on my laptop.
What did you end up doing?

MacBriar
03-12-2005, 12:41 AM
Don't know if anyone has tried this but I came across a program called OsaSync

http://www.vaita.com/index.asp

this allows syncing of outlook over LAN and via FTP.

MacBriar