Welcome Sprint!

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://makeashorterlink.com/?F24521A45' target='_blank'>http://makeashorterlink.com/?F24521A45</a><br /><br /></div>This represents a rather historic day for Pocket PC Thoughts: we have our first "major" ad campaign from a large industry player. Traditionally, we've been supported by Pocket PC developers, and we wouldn't be here without them. But I feel like we're "on the radar" now with some of the larger companies, which is a great thing for our continued future.<br /><br />Now all I need to do is convince the Pocket PC OEMs that sponsoring a site like this is a good thing, considering all we do is talk about their products...:roll:

[rfischer]

Now all I need to do is convince the Pocket PC OEMs that sponsoring a site like this is a good thing, considering all we do is talk about their products...:roll:

I wonder if they won't because this site is based on views, rants and raves? I would expect that paying sponsors (in the OEM league) want you to say only good things about their products, which may not always happen. :?

[Don Tolson]

I notice that Brighthand is now sporting a new Sprint PCS sponsor's banner as well...I wonder if this signals some new marketing initiative by Sprint in the mobile/handheld market?

Great to see them putting some $$ back into the sites, tho!!!

[cmchavez]

Now all I need to do is convince the Pocket PC OEMs that sponsoring a site like this is a good thing, considering all we do is talk about their products...:roll:

I wonder if they won't because this site is based on views, rants and raves? I would expect that paying sponsors (in the OEM league) want you to say only good things about their products, which may not always happen. :?

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone,...unless you have already tooled up your production facilities to produce 10,000 PPC 2003 widgets and you can't retool anything until you have filled your initial product orders. Software updates/fixes are relatively easy to correct when compared with hardware errors. :agrue:

[rfischer]

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone...

I am on the same side as you, CM. I was just looking at it from the "OEM EVP of Sales & Marketing" view. It would be like paying money to run Dr. Phil commercials during David Letterman's show. If you watch Dave, then you know he makes fun of Dr. Phil nightly. It makes more sense to advertise in places where you are sure you are only going to receive praise on your products from the host.

[Ed Hansberry]

Now all I need to do is convince the Pocket PC OEMs that sponsoring a site like this is a good thing, considering all we do is talk about their products...:roll:
I am sure Toshiba is chomping at the bit. :wink:

[Hal Goldstein]

This represents a rather historic day for Pocket PC Thoughts: we have our first "major" ad campaign from a large industry player. Traditionally, we've been supported by Pocket PC developers, and we wouldn't be here without them. But I feel like we're "on the radar" now with some of the larger companies, which is a great thing for our continued future.

Now all I need to do is convince the Pocket PC OEMs that sponsoring a site like this is a good thing, considering all we do is talk about their products...:roll:

One of the most frustrating things about being in "this business" is that the OEMs who benefit the most from Pocket PC magazine, www.pocketpcthoughts.com, etc, provide little if any advertising support. We did support publications for HP mobile users for 15 years without advertising! Sprint seems to "get" it. I had a good talk with a Sprint product manager, and I must say they were one of the few organizations I have dealt with that really understood the power of enthusiast sites and magazines and the forward looking audience whom we attract. Kudos to Sprint!

Hal Goldstein, Publisher/Exec Editor
Pocket PC magazine
www.PocketPCmag.com

[rfischer]

I am sure Toshiba is chomping at the bit. :wink:
:rotfl:

[Diane Dumas]

Congrats having Sprint PCS as a sponser! I can hardly wait to buy my Sprint PCS Smartphone! I love my CF-2031 w/slim battery and Sanyo 5300 picture phone. You could say I make rather large monthly donations to Sprint for 2 cell services! Glad to see some of my money going to support PPC Thoughts! :)

[Jeff Rutledge]

I wonder if OEM's feel that their investment wouldn't be valuable at sites like this. They may be of the opinion that the vast majority of visitors to sites like this already own a PPC, so why advertise to them?

I'm not saying that I agree with that logic (I don't) or that it's even true, but that may explain part of their reluctance.

I wonder how many hits this site gets from folks thinking about a PPC.

Even if that number is low, I think that the OEM's would be well served to support sites like this one. We're their volunteer evangelists. They'd do well to keep places like this alive.

[entropy1980]

I am sure Toshiba is chomping at the bit. :wink:
Their chomping errr smoking something that's for sure! :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

I wonder if OEM's feel that their investment wouldn't be valuable at sites like this. They may be of the opinion that the vast majority of visitors to sites like this already own a PPC, so why advertise to them?

Well, consider how many people were in the market for a new 2003 device! There was surely an opportunity there.

HP is really the only OEM who I can say that I have a good relationship with. The rest? I don't know if they know I exist. :-) Samsung is a new partner I'm talking to - they were great about sending me a review device.

[mattchapin]

I read this announcement, and with my congratulations to the PocketPCThoughts team comes a warning:

It looks like SprintPCS may be leaning on somebody in the community-- Successwizard, apparently one of PDABuzz.com's news editors, posted this "review" of SprintPCS.

Hopefully this post was not sanctioned by PDABuzz. If it was, my opinion of PDABuzz is going to take a long time to heal.

Check it out:
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?threadid=47386

PocketPCThoughts is a site I trust for its objectivity and I don't want that to change!

-Matt

[Wes Salmon]

It's my experience that sites which cover certain companies extensively rarely ever see advertising dollars from them. This is because you're already advertising for them every day, even when you're criticizing them.

What are the chances that the marketing department is going to come up with something to say about their product that fits in a banner ad, that hasn't been said on the site already for free? Very little. This means the return on their investment will be minimal since their ad would be 95% redundant information. With the general public, repetition is an effective advertising method but with the enthusiast crowd, it simply doesn't work all that well.

It's a catch 22 really, with the main losers being sites like these that go without the much needed support of the major players. That's how it's always been and chances are good that it's not going to change much in the near future.

[ShivShanks]

Sprint seems to "get" it. I had a good talk with a Sprint product manager, and I must say they were one of the few organizations I have dealt with that really understood the power of enthusiast sites and magazines and the forward looking audience whom we attract. Kudos to Sprint!

Hal Goldstein, Publisher/Exec Editor
Pocket PC magazine
www.PocketPCmag.com

Its nice to see that Sprint understands all this. If someone from Sprint is reading this I'd like to give some feedback about their data plans which is an area where they just don't "get it" at all. -

Sprint needs to stop having totally brain dead prices for Ringers, Games, Applications etc in its Vision service. I mean $1.50 for a tune for 90 days? Why the bl00dy hell should I have to keep repaying for a tune? I should be able to buy it out right. The way they do it now in half a year one would pay almost half the cost of a CD (without owning it). They need to give options to buy stuff outright instead of the greedy stupid recurring price model that some retarted planner has come up with.

They need to fix the Vision price plans in the light of the above. Right now in the new plan it is $15 per month for unlimited which includes $10 credit for buying stuff. But that is mitigated by the fact that anything you buy will expire in 3 months. So basically they hiked up prices forcing you to buy stuff every month with that $10 all of which will expire. Basically you own nothing and Sprints attitude is screw you, you have to keep paying us. The older plan was better. $10 per month for unlimited data access plus you could buy what you wanted outright (Well not all but some). My suggestion to Sprint is to have $10 per month and then allow the user the buy whatever he wants outright instead of it expiring every 90 days.

[Wes Salmon]

Hopefully this post was not sanctioned by PDABuzz. If it was, my opinion of PDABuzz is going to take a long time to heal.

According to SuccessWizard it wasn't "sanctioned", but instead required. When asked if it was a paid placement, he replied: "Sometimes, and it's not that often, I just have to post what's sent me by the dark overlords."

The main sticking point for me leaving/being fired from buzz last July was that I refused to run ads as news, such as the one pointed out above. I also refused to give preferential review treatment to advertisers.

This is the other (ugly) side of publishing when advertising and content collide. Most publications handle it with integrity and honest, others as seen by the link above, do not.

Update: Looks like we're not the only ones who think their advertising "tactics" are less than quality. The thread linked above has been deleted and the front page "news article" about Sprint's proucts and services is gone.

[Ed Hansberry]

This is the other (ugly) side of publishing when advertising and content collide. Most publications handle it with integrity and honest, others as seen by the link above, do not.
That was not a collision. That was an assimilation that the Borg would be proud of. :robot:

That was a lion devouring a gazelle, digesting it, passing it, then the dung beetles come along and finish up the job, then for good measure the lion ate the dung beetles.

[Kati Compton]

That was a lion devouring a gazelle, digesting it, passing it, then the dung beetles come along and finish up the job, then for good measure the lion ate the dung beetles.
Thanks for that imagery... I was starting to think about making dinner.... :pukeface:

[Jason Dunn]

I read this announcement, and with my congratulations to the PocketPCThoughts team comes a warning: It looks like SprintPCS may be leaning on somebody in the community-- Successwizard, apparently one of PDABuzz.com's news editors, posted this "review" of SprintPCS. Hopefully this post was not sanctioned by PDABuzz. If it was, my opinion of PDABuzz is going to take a long time to heal.

I wouldn't blame Sprint here - they're not "leaning", they're buying sponsorship. PDABuzz chose to implement that sponsorship in a murky way that blurred the line between advertisign and editorial. That's the real problem. Sprint is doing a good thing by spreading money around the enthusiast sites, but it's up to the enthusiast sites to implement that sponsorship in a way that doesn't try to fool their visitors.

PocketPCThoughts is a site I trust for its objectivity and I don't want that to change!

Sprint will be doing a sponsored article with us, which might read like what you saw there (I don't know, I haven't seen it yet), but it will be clearly marked as a sponsored article (not a "review"), it won't have my name on it as if I wrote it, and you'll be able to tell is was a paid advertorial, not some sort of stealth article.

As always, if you see me going over to the dark side, call me on it. I have bills to pay, but I also don't want to become a corporate mouthpiece.

[Jason Dunn]

It's my experience that sites which cover certain companies extensively rarely ever see advertising dollars from them. This is because you're already advertising for them every day, even when you're criticizing them.

That's true. But some of the enlightened companies understand the value in keeping sites like this around, and that's where sponsorship comes in. It's more a matter of them saying "We like that you're talking about our product a lot, here's some funding to make sure you can keep doing it." I wish there were more companies that understood that.

[GoldKey]

That was an assimilation that the Borg would be proud of. :robot:

I agree, and I should know!

[Gator5000e]

Well, maybe Sprint will actually read these forums for constructive criticism. For example their PCS Connection Manager software for Pocket PC is flakey at best, it is difficult to connect, you cannot tell what version of the software you have, it's difficult to find the site to download the software, it's never updated and the titles and versions arc confusing. And who knows if PCSCM will work under WM2003? One can only hope this means thc product will improve with thc increased advertising.

[Chairman Clench]

Sprint seems to "get" it.

I wish Sprint "got" it when it comes to customer service. Wow is their customer service bad. I ad them for 3 years and their actual phone service is fine... just hope you never have to contact customer service for ANY reason.

Right now I have AT&T GSM service. Their coverage and speeds aren't as good, but their customer service reps can't do enough to help you.

Everything is a trade-off. If Sprint had a BlueTooth phone (that isn't being discontinued &lt;cough> T608) I would probably switch back for the increased data speeds and pray that I never had to talk to their customer service.

What I would really like is the new Samsung PPCPE to have BlueTooth built-in... seriously, now that BT support is in WM2003, how much could it cost to add a BT chip into the phone? $20? Less? BT is perfect for a device like that which you wouldn't want to hold up to your head.

Actually, I would like just about any Samsung phone with BT. I love their phones, but I can't live without BT anymore... I have too many BT accessories.

[beq]

In general might this also be an indication of larger online ad budgets (a reversal as Jason had mentioned awhile back I think)?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1193276,00.asp

[Wes Salmon]

I wish Sprint "got" it when it comes to customer service. Wow is their customer service bad. I ad them for 3 years and their actual phone service is fine... just hope you never have to contact customer service for ANY reason.

Tell me about it, when the wife went to Alaska last year, her Sprint phone said she wasn't roaming so she made a bunch of calls. A month later we got $300 worth of long distance bills.

She spoke with 4-5 different customer service people, none of them would acknowledge a problem and all blamed her for "not knowing when you are roaming".

The only way I got them to credit me back the $300 was to go to Alaska 2 months later and call them from her phone. I called once again to complain that their phone does not show roaming status in Anchorage. I asked "can you tell if I'm roaming right now", she said yes. I said "am I?". She said no. I said "Guess where I am ... A-freakin-laska!". She credited my account then and there.

After talking to the Radio Shack guys in the local mall there, I found that Sprint was notorious in the area for doing this exact same thing to any of their customers who dare travel to Alaska and use their Sprint phone.

Needless to say I'd never go back to Sprint, no matter who they advertise with. Ironic since just last month I was on stage with their PCS President doing a demo. :)

[aerin44]

Different people have different experiences with companies. I will never use ATT&T wireless again. I had their GSM service for nine months and had nothing but problems. The customer service people were very friendly but entirely useless. I will probably move back to the states in a few months and will check out T-mobile and Sprint, but will not even go into an AT&T store.

[kendrick]

In the spirit of healthy debate and constructive criticism, I feel like I need to get this off my chest... There's no denying that a major sponsor like Sprint is good news for PocketPCThoughts, and I have nothing but congratulations and support for the move. But as a reader of the site, I have to question whether or not this is something that's worthy of a headline and an article.

When a more traditional news source (a daily periodical or broadcast program) gets a new sponsor, they don't ordinarily make it part of the news. Partly because their readers/viewers won't care, but mainly because it might take a bite out of their credibility. Does it ever seem suspicious that NBC never reports on General Electric product alerts, or that CNN doesn't ever mention America Online's poor customer support? The reality is that news providers generally try to be unbiased no matter who sponsors them, but announcing said sponsorship (without the context of full disclosure) plants the seed of doubt. Not that PocketPCThoughts claims to be unbiased, but it does function as a source of news on handheld technologies. It would only hurt the site if its readers questioned the accuracy of the news reported here in that way.

Personally, I feel like such an announcement amounts to unpaid advertising. I won't deny the reality that advertising is what keeps worthy websites in business, and I won't criticize its use here. But I will say that making Sprint sponsorship a news item steps over a line, into what I feel is intrusive advertising.

If Sprint sponsorship of PocketPCThoughts gets mentioned again, it's my opinion that it should be in the context of a clearly marked advertisement. Or, as I said before, as full disclosure if it's necessary to report on Sprint products or services. The latter action serves to improve credibility, since you're betting on your readers' ability to make a judgement about the accuracy of news reporting in spite of that disclosure.

Of course it's not my site, and you can run it any way you like. This is all just my opinion, and anybody can feel free to disagree.

-KKC, who thinks he's long winded because he's trying to be politically correct. And who came up with too many toe-related jokes whilst writing this. :)

[aroma]

Personally, I feel like such an announcement amounts to unpaid advertising.

Who say's it's unpaid??? :wink: :twisted: :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

When a more traditional news source...

That's just it: we're not a traditional news source. This is an enthusiast site, run by a group of people who love Pocket PCs. The traditional rules that a journalist would follow don't apply here, and to be frank, they can't. I couldn't survive if, as an editor, I never accepted anything over $5 from a company. I use my own personal integrity as my guide for right and wrong, not a rulebook made up for traditional media.

Personally, I feel like such an announcement amounts to unpaid advertising.

Was it because I linked to their product page? It's funny, the first post I did, and the post that all the subscribers would have gotten via email, didn't have any link back to Sprint - it was just an informational post. Then I decided "Well, what the heck, I might as well link to what Sprint is advertising so people can see what I'm talking about."

Last year, and up until about six months ago or so, every time I got a new advertiser on board, I'd post a message about it. I prefer to think of them as "sponsors" rather than advertisers, because the reality is that we post on almost everyone's new product anyway - and the editorial coverage we give companies on the site is often more beneficial to them than banner ads. So when a company wants to advertise with us, it's more that they're saying "Hey, we like what you do, we want to support you and sell some products at the same time." The relationship I have with my sponsors is very different than a traditional media site has with their advertisers. ie: none.

You have to understand that for a little site (we ARE little in the overall scheme of things - Pocket PCs are a slice of the market within the PDA niche) it's a BIG DEAL when we get someone advertising with us. There were several times late last year when I was considering shutting the site down - I was spending 10+ hours a day on it, and earning no income to pay my bills.

If you really want to help, subscribe. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/subscribe.php) :mrgreen: If even 25% of all the registered users subscribed, I wouldn't need sponsors. ;-) Of course, with that much money, I might just move to Mexico and run the site from a beach. :wink:

[Kati Compton]

Personally, I feel like such an announcement amounts to unpaid advertising. I won't deny the reality that advertising is what keeps worthy websites in business, and I won't criticize its use here. But I will say that making Sprint sponsorship a news item steps over a line, into what I feel is intrusive advertising.
In this case, I think it was excitement that a major player was supporting the site, which the community in general would be interested to hear. You can also think of it as disclosure if you'd like. I don't see anything wrong with it... It's not like he said "so everybody go out and buy a Sprint wireless contract today!"

[dh]

I do not see any problem here at all.
If PPCT has signed a deal with Sprint, great and yes it's good news that I for one would like to hear about. This is a community and I like to know a bit about what is going on.
Sprint is a company that is relevent to us as PPC users. With their data network they provide an option for us to get connected and I bet there are plenty of Sprint customers here.
I personally don't like that bloody great Hitachi thing but that's not the point.
I certainly don't always agree with Jason (I've had the "go and start your own site" response before :D ) but no one can say that his editorial is biased towards Sprint. Only the other day he did a post on why he prefers the features of GSM over CDMA.

[Steven Cedrone]

Please try to keep this thread civil, if it gets out of hand again the thread will be locked...

Multiple posts have been moved to the HOF&S... (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15161&highlight=)

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[GoldKey]

In the spirit of healthy debate and constructive criticism, I feel like I need to get this off my chest... There's no denying that a major sponsor like Sprint is good news for PocketPCThoughts, and I have nothing but congratulations and support for the move. But as a reader of the site, I have to question whether or not this is something that's worthy of a headline and an article.

I disagree completely, I think by being upfront with us that Sprint is a new advertiser, Jason did his editorial duty to disclose the relationship.

[PhatCohiba]

if PPCT was a big company Jason would have issued a press release, just like this one: http://chicagobears.com/news/index.cfm?cont_id=190007&right_include=/includes/dsp_bearsnews_module.cfm&include=&show_headline=true&this_month=6&nav_key=nws&subnav_key=na PPCT doesn't issue press releases ( :rotfl: Sorry, just got to laugh, a PPCT press release. :rotfl: )

Lighten up.

I've been a long time sprint user, which means I have a love/hate relationship with them. If you've used a mobile company for more then 2 years and have nothing bad to say, let me know ;-)

I'd love to get any of the ppc Phones or the CF card if the pricing plan was consumer friendly (not business focused as it is now.)

Plus, the ad looks cool.