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View Full Version : "We Just Make 'Em, We Don't Use 'Em..."


Brad Adrian
07-09-2003, 09:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137192,00.html?rtag=zdnetukhompage' target='_blank'>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t2...=zdnetukhompage</a><br /><br /></div>The next time I look the word "irony" up in the dictionary, I expect to see this recent ZDNet news story listed as a great example:<br /><br />"Korean IT giants like Samsung and LG Electronics may be fiercely promoting camera-equipped phones to consumers, but are wary about allowing their use inside company grounds. To protect against industrial espionage and intellectual property theft, Samsung and LG Electronics have both barred employees from using camera phones on their research and manufacturing facilities."<br /><br />Of course, on the surface, this seems to make sense; allowing employees to walk around with camera phones could pose a security risk. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that a few bucks and a trip to Radio Shack can get me espionage tools that would be much more difficult to detect than a hand-sized camera phone.<br /><br />Or, could it be that this is at least partially a PR ploy? Is Samsung trying to send the message that their camera phones are so cool that they practically give their owners "double-O" status and a British accent?

Daimaou
07-09-2003, 09:35 AM
Samsung and LG Electronics have both barred employees from using camera phones on their research and manufacturing facilities

Except the one they make them... ;)

bjornkeizers
07-09-2003, 10:22 AM
I heard this too, and they do have a point. I can see where these camera equipped phones cause a security risk. You could, in theory, take pictures of prototypes, documents, etc.

However, banning these phones won't stop industrial espionage. They already make cameras the size of a credit card, and I'm sure if they really wanted to, they could always find a way.. hacking the network, blackmail, maybe planting someone with a photographic memory in your rival's offices..

fireflyrsmr
07-09-2003, 10:50 AM
they did this at General Motors about 6 months ago. I think it's just an attempt to send a message to the typical visitor and employee. In the auto industry they've seen it all in terms of spy stuff. I use to think that those pic's you see in the press were really released by the companies but all indications from the inside are that each of those is some breach of security - at least at gm.

dh
07-09-2003, 12:10 PM
I do a lot of work with the pharmaceutical companies and cameras have always been banned.

Quite often everyone's bag is searched before being allowed in, just to make sure.

A phone or PPC with a camera is therefore not much use to me, I'd have to check it at the gatehouse everywhere I go.

aroma
07-09-2003, 12:21 PM
Of course, on the surface, this seems to make sense; allowing employees to walk around with camera phones could pose a security risk. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that a few bucks and a trip to Radio Shack can get me espionage tools that would be much more difficult to detect than a hand-sized camera phone.


First, I would think that they've always had a ban on cameras in some of their facilities, so this is probably just an extension of that (just blown out of proportion by the media), and second, granted this wouldn't stop the person who is intentionally out to perform harm, it would keep the average Joe worker from whipping out his phone and snapping a picture of the latest prototype and zipping it off to his buddy Steve and then having that leaked on the net.

lurch
07-09-2003, 03:26 PM
Where I work there can't be any "unapproved" cameras... one guy had one of those wristwatch cameras (it was kinda cool) but had to leave it at home when they found out it was a camera. :)

But I can understand not having phone cameras -- the photos can be transmitted instantly can't they? And why do people NEED a cell phone anyway? Aren't they typically at or near a desk with a phone :) They can just put call forwarding on during the day.. :)
I guess not everybody has a desk-type job though....

JMountford
07-09-2003, 04:25 PM
Brad your post and it's content look somewhat familiar.... :wink: 8O

DarkHelmet
07-09-2003, 05:03 PM
Well, what's good for the consumer is good for the telecomm companies...If you work at a Department of Defense facility in the US - your camera phone is subject to immediate confiscation and destruction. Employees at my facility have already been warned.

T-Will
07-09-2003, 05:47 PM
What's "double-O" status?

Jason Dunn
07-09-2003, 05:54 PM
What's "double-O" status?

007, James Bond, that sort of thing...although, technically, it should be said "double-zero-seven" right? It just doesn't have the same ring. Or do the double 0's really have an "oh" meaning? 8O

shindullin
07-09-2003, 06:00 PM
According to the books 00x is the number designation for British agents with a "licence to kill".

As for the phone thing. I agree that if it's in everyone's hands, it just more likely that someone will be tempted to take a quick picture and send it to someone else. It's like digital gossip only the information being passed along is more accurate.

klinux
07-09-2003, 06:08 PM
Many places are beginning to ban the phone/PDA cameras now. Japan is forcing makers to put in a loud enough sound when a picture is taken so that the subject knows that a picture is being taken of him/her. NYTimes had a article on this subject just a while ago.

klinux
07-09-2003, 06:11 PM
"But electronic eyeballs can pry as well as inform. In Britain, The Mail on Sunday reported that a pedophile ring in Scotland was using the phones to exchange images. In Italy, mobile phones were banned from polling booths to prevent vote-rigging in regional elections in May; the government suspected that the Mafia would bribe voters to vote as instructed and then demand a picture of the ballot slip before making the payoff."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/03/technology/circuits/03cell.html (NYT - free registration may be required)

don dre
07-09-2003, 06:25 PM
the ubiquity of these phones could have a dramatic impat on crime, especially minor ones. at least once they all have a decent resolution. i say it's not a big deal here.

Brad Adrian
07-09-2003, 07:04 PM
According to the books 00x is the number designation for British agents with a "licence to kill".
Correct you are, my dear shindullin!
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/adrian/goodbrad.jpg

Pony99CA
07-10-2003, 12:29 AM
007, James Bond, that sort of thing...although, technically, it should be said "double-zero-seven" right?
Given that Bond is British, wouldn't it technically be "Double-Naught-Seven"? :lol:

Seriously, I believe the movies refer to him as a "Double Oh" agent. Also, people use "Oh" to mean "Zero" all the time, especially in phone numbers.

Steve

Pony99CA
07-10-2003, 12:35 AM
First, I would think that they've always had a ban on cameras in some of their facilities, so this is probably just an extension of that (just blown out of proportion by the media)[...]
Yes, many places have banned cameras for a while. When I worked at IBM, you had to get a "camera pass" to bring one on-site.

However, that's not the point of the story. The point is that the manufacturers of the devices don't allow them on their premises. That makes me wonder how they can possibly make them. I imagine some security goon at the end of the assembly line whisking each camera away as it's made. :rotfl:

Steve

Pony99CA
07-10-2003, 12:47 AM
But I can understand not having phone cameras -- the photos can be transmitted instantly can't they? And why do people NEED a cell phone anyway? Aren't they typically at or near a desk with a phone :) They can just put call forwarding on during the day.. :)
I guess not everybody has a desk-type job though....
Let me count the ways.

Some jobs are inherently mobile, as you mentioned. Consider salesmen and service personnel, for example.

Even for people with desk jobs, they don't sit at their desk 8/5. People eat, use the rest room, attend meetings, etc.

Many places prohibit using their phones for personal calls. (Although, I suspect calling using a personal cell phone on company time would still be a concern.)

The more relevant question would be, why would someone need a cell phone with a camera at work? They probably wouldn't, but how many people are going to get two mobile phones, one for work without a camera and one for other places with a camera.

Industrial espionage isn't the only concern with these, either. I've heard of problems using camera phones in locker rooms (and probably for up-skirting). The Screen Savers recently mentioned problems in Japan with "digital shoplifting" -- people using camera phones to take pictures of books and magazines.

Expect more bans in the future.

Steve

lurch
07-10-2003, 05:14 AM
use the rest room
Now THAT is being connected all the time... do you really bring your cell phone to the loo in case you get a call???

(and yes I know you weren't referring to yourself there.. :) )

Pony99CA
07-11-2003, 08:06 AM
use the rest room
Now THAT is being connected all the time... do you really bring your cell phone to the loo in case you get a call???
If somebody's wife is pregnant, or they're awaiting a call about an organ donation, I wouldn't be surprised if they carried their phone everywhere. :-)

Steve

Brad Adrian
07-11-2003, 03:05 PM
Do you really bring your cell phone to the loo in case you get a call???
With three teenagers in our household, you'd be surprised how often I seek the solice and refuge of the "loo!"

ctmagnus
07-12-2003, 01:27 AM
With three teenagers in our household, you'd be surprised how often I seek the solice and refuge of the "loo!"

Do you "skip to the loo", or do you walk there like everyone else? :mrgreen:

Jeff Rutledge
07-12-2003, 01:31 AM
If somebody's wife is pregnant, or they're awaiting a call about an organ donation, I wouldn't be surprised if they carried their phone everywhere. :-)

Steve

I can attest to that Steve! My wife is only 4 months pregnant and I'm already being told (ordered) to have my cell phone on and with me at all times. I'll admit that right now it's mostly so that she can have me pick up whatever it is she's craving today on the way home. :Fade-color