PocketMusic Supports Ogg

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketmind.com/pmfp.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketmind.com/pmfp.htm</a><br /><br /></div>Great news -- the PocketMind folks have released a new version of their PocketMusic Bonus Pack, complete with support for Ogg Vorbis and a new Extra Bass feature on top of their equalizer. It's also noteworthy that the equalizer and bass features will now work with not only MP3, but also Ogg and WMA (unlike most other Ogg-supporting players). I'm going to have to give this a spin. :)

[Bob S]

:?

What the Heck does OGG Vorbis mean anyway?

Sounds like something the Bluetooth Pirate guy would say

[pschultz]

And what is so great about Ogg anyways? Is it better than mp3?

[entropy1980]

And what is so great about Ogg anyways? Is it better than mp3?
Open source (no royalties), supposed better compression and sound....

[slothdog]

Woohoo! It works! I'm a very happy camper.

:way to go:

Look at it this way, with Ogg at quality level 0, I can fit an entire CD in about 20MB, and it still sounds great.

If you want to give it a try, CDex is a great and easy to use CD ripper with built-in ogg support. Don't convert from mp3 to ogg or you'll lose more quality than it's worth.

http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/

[Pat Logsdon]

And what is so great about Ogg anyways? Is it better than mp3?
Yup. Smaller files, same quality as MP3. I compress all of my MP3 files to OGG and they sound just the same. File size is almost half of what an MP3 is, on average.

You can get the dBpowerAmp converter (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm) (making sure you install the Ogg Vorbis codec (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/codec-central.htm#Popular%20Codecs) first, of course), and then convert away! Give it a try, it's very nice. 8)

I'll definitely check out the PocketMusic bonus pack!

[slothdog]

Sorry to repeat myself, but it bears repeating. If you want to hear the full potential of ogg, re-encode from the original source if possible. mp3 and ogg use different compression schemes, so you're throwing away data not once but twice if you transcode from one to the other.

[MacBirdie]

And I'm waiting for someone to finally add MPC a.k.a. MusePack a.k.a. MPEGplus support to their audio player. :grumble:

[slothdog]

Yeah! And AAC support, while they're at it. :D

[carphead]

PocketMusic gets better and better.

I love this program! And now OGG support :D Even better :D

[Foo Fighter]

Ogg is never going to take off, except among Open source fans. MP3, WMA, and AAC will continue to to be the industry standard(s) audio formats for digital media. It's a good technology, but that doesn't matter.

[CTSLICK]

I've been hooked on OGG for a while now. Looks like a really feature rich player...nice interface too. I may have to give this a shot sometime. I am using GSPlayer2 right now which may not be much to look at but its small and its free and it works.

Hopefully developers will keep supporting this format but I share Foo's concerns about the long term viability of Ogg.

[Janak Parekh]

Ogg is never going to take off, except among Open source fans. MP3, WMA, and AAC will continue to to be the industry standard(s) audio formats for digital media. It's a good technology, but that doesn't matter.
Well, it depends on what you define as success. It's already had more success than any other free compression format. :) The real appeal of it as a format is that it's an unencumbered way to get high-quality encodings of one's personal music without getting locked into a potentially patented/licensed/DRM-protected format.

As such I doubt it'll "go away" anytime soon. That said, the fact the iPod doesn't have Ogg support is perhaps singlehandedly the reason why the format hasn't exploded. :cry:

--janak

[Foo Fighter]

That said, the fact the iPod doesn't have Ogg support is perhaps singlehandedly the reason why the format hasn't exploded. :cry:

Don't look for Apple to support this format..EVER. Now that they are in the music biz, it's all AAC from here on out, and I often wonder if Jobs may kill MP3 file compatibility in future versions of iPod firmware.

[denivan]

Ogg is never going to take off, except among Open source fans. MP3, WMA, and AAC will continue to to be the industry standard(s) audio formats for digital media. It's a good technology, but that doesn't matter.

Who cares about industry standard ? When it comes to converting rich media to do everything you want, rule number 1 is to avoid industry standards ;)

I probably will never buy music online because : no subscription format suits me, the files are not in the format I want, not allways 'in stock' what I'm looking for, DRM can be cumbersome and finally : still to expensive IMO. The apple service is priced so that it just can compete with buying regular cd's, but I'm sure that when it comes to europe, it'll be much more expensive. So, to summ it up : thank god for Ogg ! ;)

[jasoncli]

This version is crashing my e740 when I use the screen off feature. Oh well.

[pro_worm]

Best if converted from the original CD huh?
Dang.
I appear to have lost every single CD from where my MP3 collection originated from.
:mrgreen:

[dhpss]

I have the same problem with sreen toggle (screen off) on my e750.

[klinux]

Yup - going from one compressed format to another compressed format is a bad idea. So don't convert from MP3 to OGG, WMA to MP3, OGG to AAC, etc - you get the point.

[bikeman]

Hey Janek - how about waiting till July 1st and then having a music player shootout? :D I just started using ogg files, and am using the free WinampPaq player. The equalizer does work, a little, but the bass response is still weak, even with good headphones. PocketMusic has an equalizer, ogg support, and Extra Bass, and Conduits' Pocket Player (available July 1) has an equalizer, supports ogg, and has Jason's vote. I would gladly pony up the $20 for a good player with an equalizer that works and strong bass. But I don't want to pony up $20 a pop for comparison shopping. Come on, your fans would love this (and I'd bet that the companies would give you free evaluation versions for the publicity). :wink:

[jizmo]

don't convert from MP3 to OGG, WMA to MP3, OGG to AAC, etc - you get the point.

Sure, but can I convert from MP3 to WMA or from AAC to OGG. Or, say, from WMA to OGG or OGG to WMA? :wink:

/jizmo

[ctmagnus]

Now that they are in the music biz, it's all AAC from here on out, and I often wonder if Jobs may kill MP3 file compatibility in future versions of iPod firmware.

Nah. He just got his foot (little toenail?)in the Windows door. He'd lose too many non-Mac using customers.

[Janak Parekh]

Hey Janek - how about waiting till July 1st and then having a music player shootout? :D
Ooooh. That's a great idea. I'll run it by Jason, and see if we can round up all of them. I've already used 5 different music players for the Pocket PC... :D

--janak

[AlexMakin]

And what is so great about Ogg anyways? Is it better than mp3?
Yup. Smaller files, same quality as MP3. I compress all of my MP3 files to OGG and they sound just the same. File size is almost half of what an MP3 is, on average.

Hmmm... Are we comparing apples with apples here? I usually rip MP3s at 192kbs. I just tried the DB Power Amp with the ogg codec, still ripping at 192kbs, 44khz, stereo and the resulting sizes are: MP3: 5786 vs OGG: 5553. So I wouldn’t say it half the size. What do I have to do to get half the size and maintain a high quality?
Otherwise, given OGG is hardly known (and sparingly supported) and MP3 is totally known (and fully supported), why would I go for OGG? I must be doing something seriously wrong to get such close file sizes.

To put it in perspective, I want the same audio quality as MP3 192 khz gives me. If that equates to OGG: 128 khz, well, obviously I can drop the rate down a bit and be satisfied with a smaller file, but pls tell me how you got to half and still say it sounds okay…

[denivan]

To put it in perspective, I want the same audio quality as MP3 192 khz gives me. If that equates to OGG: 128 khz, well, obviously I can drop the rate down a bit and be satisfied with a smaller file, but pls tell me how you got to half and still say it sounds okay…

From the FAQ @ Vorbis.com :

http://www.vorbis.com/faq.psp#quality

[Pat Logsdon]

Hmmm... Are we comparing apples with apples here? I usually rip MP3s at 192kbs. I just tried the DB Power Amp with the ogg codec, still ripping at 192kbs, 44khz, stereo and the resulting sizes are: MP3: 5786 vs OGG: 5553. So I wouldn?t say it half the size. What do I have to do to get half the size and maintain a high quality?
Ok, I thought I might have been on crack when I made that post, but I just tried it again and I'm clean. :D Here's what I did:

First, I started with a 128kbps MP3 - Placebo's 'The Bitter End'. File size is 4469kb. Convert to Ogg Vorbis using dBpowerAmp at 64kbps (stereo), resulting file size is 1139kb. Personally, I can't tell the difference, and I ALWAYS use earbuds, so it's not like big speakers and ambient noise is smoothing out the rough spots.

Obviously, your ears may be more sensitive than mine, but I tend to notice stuff -for example, I can't STAND MP3 files coded to WMA - it sounds like ass to me, with lots of hissing, popping, white noise, etc. I hear none of that with MP3 to Ogg. 8)

I also agree totally with what others have said in this thread - the higher the quality of the original file is, the higher the quality of the copy will be.

[juni]

:lol: -> it is funny, I sweated the whole day yesterday making a clear and easy to use skin for Pocket Music and then they release a new version when the skin is done:

http://koti.welho.com/kruohio/claritypm.jpg

[BugDude10]

Hey, Snack: Your ass hisses, pops, and emits white noise? You don't need OGG Vorbis, man, you need a proctologist!

:mrgreen:

[rlobrecht]

I often wonder if Jobs may kill MP3 file compatibility in future versions of iPod firmware.

They can't do this until they create a Windows app that can rip AAC.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

To put it in perspective, I want the same audio quality as MP3 192 khz gives me. If that equates to OGG: 128 khz, well, obviously I can drop the rate down a bit and be satisfied with a smaller file, but pls tell me how you got to half and still say it sounds okay…
Well, the majority of folks who use MP3, probably do so at 128kbps (any lower and you notice major drop-off in quality). Those who switched to OGG found 64kbps (and for some, 48kbps) to be acceptably equivalent to 128kbps MP3.

That's where people are saying they can use half the space (and in some cases less if they opt for 48kbps).

[slothdog]

I usually rip MP3s at 192kbs. I just tried the DB Power Amp with the ogg codec, still ripping at 192kbs, 44khz, stereo and the resulting sizes are: MP3: 5786 vs OGG: 5553. So I wouldn’t say it half the size. What do I have to do to get half the size and maintain a high quality?

Erm, think about that for a minute. kbps is a measure of *size* (kilobytes per second, get it?), not *quality*. The most important thing about audio compression is how it *sounds*.

First off, stop thinking in terms of bitrate. MP3 and Ogg can both do variable bitrate, so the bitrate will change for every frame of the encoded file. This ends up improving the sound and usually saves space. Lower bitrates is where Ogg really shines. Try encoding with Ogg at quality level 0 (ogg doesn't even do constant bitrates by default, it uses a quality scale that goes from -1.0 to 10.0) and see how it sounds. Compare that to an mp3 at a similar bitrate range (~64kbps) and you'll definitely hear the difference.

[klinux]

Slothdog got it about right. A song encoded in WMA, OGG, MP3, AAC, etc at the same bit rate (say 128 kbps) will be approx. the same size. Which sounds best? Well, that's the big (and subjective) question that only you can answer. Don't let people tell you what's right for them is right for you.

Also, most codec's claim to the best sounding quality is at low bitrates. I mean, you never see any codec advertising "We sound better at 320kbps than this other codec at 320kbps!", do you? Chances are, if you rip at a high bitrate (or FLAC or RAV/AIFF), you should be fine.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

:lol: -> it is funny, I sweated the whole day yesterday making a clear and easy to use skin for Pocket Music and then they release a new version when the skin is done:
btw, cool looking skin... where can i download it?