Attention All Toshiba Pocket PC Owners: Sign This Petition!

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.petitiononline.com/e300e740/petition.html' target='_blank'>http://www.petitiononline.com/e300e...0/petition.html</a><br /><br /></div>I had a feeling this was going to happen, and I fully support this petition - I signed it myself because, as an e570 and e310 owner, Toshiba has left me out in the cold with regard to updates and even EUU packs that every other vendor has offered. :evil: Frankly, I have no intention of ever purchasing another Toshiba Pocket PC again based on how they've treated me as a customer. If you own any sort of Toshiba Pocket PC, I would urge you all to sign this petition and make your voice heard. For those of you considering buying a new Pocket PC 2003 device, be careful - Toshiba probably won't offer an upgrade for it. <br /><br />"The reason we are writing this petition is to express our extreme dissatisfaction and disappointment with your handling of the Windows Mobile 2003 for Pocket PC upgrade. This follows a long list of grievances that the Toshiba e700 and e300 series communities have had with you and now we would like to air them out to you in this public forum in hope that we can come to resolution on our expensive investments. <br /><br />The Toshiba e740 PDA was your flagship product for a solid year. It was the first PDA on the market with the advanced PXA250 400mHz X-Scale processor and built in WiFi. After its release, it was discovered that that the operating system at the time was not ready for the processor and there was little or no improvement. We accepted this as the cost of being early adopters. After all, the e740 was fully capable of being upgraded to the newest Pocket PC operating system when it was released. Likewise, the e330, utilizing the 300 MHz version of the processor, would reap similar benefits from an updated operating system. You have not given us the option of this upgrade."

[pocketpcdude1024]

Oh yes; I'll never forget that I had to wait months for an EUU3 update... :evil: However, I still like Toshiba products, so I may decide to buy from them again in the future... :?

EDIT: Jason, have YOU signed the petition? 8O
ANOTHER EDIT: Apparently, he's #4! (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?e300e740&401) 8)

[Newsboy]

Methinks some product managers are going to have very bad headaches in the next few weeks. :twisted:

[wjsteele]

I will not sign this petition as it is incorrectly states "After its release, it was discovered that that the operating system at the time was not ready for the processor and there was little or no improvement." I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but have you thought about the fact that if they do put 2003 on these devices, there will be no performance improvement?

Intel issued a "fixed" processor, the PXA255 which overcomes the performance issues of the PXA250. This means that the OS is not at issue, rather the hardware is. If Toshiba offers an upgrade to 2003, you install it and the performance doesn't improve, who is at fault? What kind of issues will Toshiba face then?

I think it is a good decision on Toshiba's part not to upgrade the PXA250 based devices to 2003. I do, however, think it is a terrible decision not to support EUU's on these devices.

Bill

[Enderet]

I hope you Toshiba users get what you want...Im just glad I sold mine before this happened, because I would have been very very mad. 0X

[wbgordy]

There should be a Jornada petition as well. I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS THE VICTIM OF A MERGER! I paid a significant amount of money for that dust bunny! I want my support! :grumble:

[Enderet]

There should be a Jornada petition as well. I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS THE VICTIM OF A MERGER! I paid a significant amount of money for that dust bunny! I want my support! :grumble:

Well if you are going to do a Jordana petition we might as well do a Casio e125 :D (MIPS :D)

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I will not sign this petition as it is incorrectly states "After its release, it was discovered that that the operating system at the time was not ready for the processor and there was little or no improvement." I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but have you thought about the fact that if they do put 2003 on these devices, there will be no performance improvement?
Regardless, the assumption of much of the PPC community when purchasing such a device is that it would be upgradeable, this especially applies to those machines with the 64MB RAM/32MB ROM memory specification. FWIW, HP is not only going to provide the inroads on a PPC2k3 upgrade for their legacy XScale machines, they're also going to support their legacy StrongARM line (38xx, not sure about 37xx) the upgrade as well.

If the reason for the lack of upgrade was truly due to concerns over performance delta (which I highly doubt), then they should just state so. IMO, Toshiba's actions are more in-line with what's becoming a growing history of negligence for their own customers.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

There should be a Jornada petition as well. I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS THE VICTIM OF A MERGER! I paid a significant amount of money for that dust bunny! I want my support! :grumble:

Well if you are going to do a Jordana petition we might as well do a Casio e125 :D (MIPS :D)
Well... the difference being that the Jornada being referred to is the HP56x (obvious from the "dust bunny" reference), which was a PPC2k2 device with the same specs (in terms of memory and CPU) as another device (iPaq38xx) which will be supported by HP for the PPC2k3 upgrade.

It's physically impossible for the E125 to support the new OS (due to the CPU and memory limitations).

[Marc Zimmermann]

Well if you are going to do a Jordana petition we might as well do a Casio e125 :D (MIPS :D)
I think that he refers to the 560 series Jornada ("Dustbunny"), so the proper Casio analogy would be the E-200. ;-)

[fatboy_au]

I have signed the petition yet I do not think they will do much. Online petitions do not carry much weight in my opinion :oops: .

PS: Thanks Jason and team for all the hard work over the last 48 hours, and working on the site all the other time. Cheers

- http://www.itnewslog.com

[Sven Johannsen]

I'll get blasted, but I think you are expecting things that legitimately the company has no responsibility to provide. I gather that you did get an EUU3 for the Toshiba. That is the latest 'update' (not upgrade) to the item you purchased. That sounds like the 'support' provided by the other vendors. How long have you had these things? I would guess there is a year warranty. Is that up? Toshiba has the responsibility to support the item you bought, not to provide you with a 'new', 'enhanced', 'upgraded' product. Not providing an upgrade is a legitimate marketing decision. If that results in folks shying away from Toshiba, so be it. If Toshiba's support is shoddy in general, that is a different issue. I don't think you should be indignanat about not being able to upgrade though.

I'm sitting here with a Jornada and feel the same way about it. I was never guaranteed an upgrade to the next OS and circumstances have made my unit a discontinued line. Like it or not, I wouldn't expect an OEM to put much effort into a discontinued product. My year warranty is up. If you bought your Jornada (new) less than a year ago, it still has the support it came with. You can still get all the patches, and you can still get service. Nowhere does it say they will upgrade the OS, either for free or at a price.

My Jornada still works fine, BTW. It did not cease functioning or even start operating at a reduced capacity on June 23rd.

[Wingnut]

I for one want some support! Windows Mobile 2003 or bust!

[cam87513]

... I gather that you did get an EUU3 for the Toshiba. That is the latest 'update' (not upgrade) to the item you purchased. That sounds like the 'support' provided by the other vendors. How long have you had these things? I would guess there is a year warranty. Is that up?...

Actually, I've had my device for less than half a year. They just recently dumped the e740 line in favor of the new e750's. Don't quote me on this, but I don't think the e740 line is even a year old yet (if it is, then it's not over a year by much).

[Raphael Salgado]

I am SOOOO glad I eBay'ed my Toshiba e740 only 6 months after I got it - and for the same price, too! Out of the box, I could not even use Pocket Internet Explorer for any secured sites - even check my Hotmail! I posted on numerous forums and everyone had similar issues with this so-called "flagship" product. It was only a month after I sold off my e740 that the first response toward an update from Toshiba was announced. Entirely unacceptable. Given the horrendous track record of Toshiba products and services, I would never buy anything with Toshiba's name stamped on it again. I'll sign up since I was a bona fide owner of one and I encourage others to spend the extra two minutes to do so, though I agree that online petitions don't seem to hold much water for some reason.

[Tomcat RIO]

IMHO, any business (read Toshiba) that markets a product (read e740) and wants to continue in business should be willing to mirror it's competitors in their service of similar products. Since it is apparent that other manufacturers are making the OS upgrade available, Toshiba should also.

[Bob Anderson]

I am not a Toshiba owner, however, I do want to make two observations. The first is about Toshiba, the second is about this site and it's "proprietor" Jason Dunn.

1) Shame on you Toshiba. But more shame on MSFT. If Microsoft can force OEMs to adhere to certain design criteria, they should force them to adhere to certain "upgrade" policies. When people spend several hundred dollars on a piece of computing equipment, I think it's fair to say that keeping it running the most up to date OS is a "must" for at least the first 1-2 years. (Obviously, they can't support upgrades forever! :cry: )

2) Jason gets a big Kudo for using this site to help Toshiba owners make waves... This site is one of the leading sites for the Pocket PC, and for Jason to stick his neck out and openly critique a major OEM player like Toshiba is exactly one of the reasons this site RULES :rock on dude!:

Keep up the good work, team! You are an indispensable part of my computing life!!!

P.S. Anyone care to bet what kind of a mess we'll have when the next PPC comes out? (Code name: Magneto) It will probably make this situation pale in comparison. :roll:

[Robotbeat]

Well, if we get a good thousand or two to sign it (which we can, easily), then you might think that it will work. I mean, Toshiba can't be so arrogant to ignore that many people without a response! Or can they?

[gorkon280]

I too have signed. I disagree that the PXA255 was a bug fix processor for the PXA250. GRANTED, the 250 has a 100 MHz system bus and the 255 a 200 MHz bus and this MAY be the source of some of the boost, what the bench marks so far have shown do not account JUST for the bus boost in my opinion. Even if it added 2 fps more and made IE load Avantgo just a hair faster I would be happy enough. The fact that HP is upgrading 3800's which are just plain old StrongARM 206 MHz chips and are only charging 30 bucks is proof that this can be done. The fact that Toshiba basically sold me a beta unit at the time just irks me. Usually you get paid to be a beta tester (either money or keeping the device). Also, HP's 3900's did not exhibit some of the problems the e740 had with peformance. They also were updated more before WM 2003 came out. The 3900's were not necessarily as fast as the should be, but they were not as bad as the e740's. My next PDA,TV, VCR digicam will definitely not be a Toshiba one.

[droppedd]

yeah, man... i just picked up a Toshiba e335 for my father for Father's Day to replace his Palm m105 - and it's obsolete already :evil: something's wrong with that... I can't imagine it would be all that difficult to do; how different can the e750 be from the e740, or the e355 be from the e335? Grrr.

Luckily it's my dad's; he won't care too much as long as it has a color screen and can keep his appointments :D

[MonkeyGrass]

I'll get blasted, but I think you are expecting things that legitimately the company has no responsibility to provide. I gather that you did get an EUU3 for the Toshiba. That is the latest 'update' (not upgrade) to the item you purchased. That sounds like the 'support' provided by the other vendors. How long have you had these things? I would guess there is a year warranty. Is that up? Toshiba has the responsibility to support the item you bought, not to provide you with a 'new', 'enhanced', 'upgraded' product. Not providing an upgrade is a legitimate marketing decision. If that results in folks shying away from Toshiba, so be it.

...

My Jornada still works fine, BTW. It did not cease functioning or even start operating at a reduced capacity on June 23rd.

I think you are rather missing the point here... Of course, Toshiba is not *obligated* to provide such an upgrade. In my mind, the biggest question is, why build a device with these types of specs, with as much ROM (32 MB!! Only 24 is required for WinMobile2k3!) and advertise for an entire year the the product is "ugradeable" and then blow off all the owners by saying the product has "hardware compatibility issues that prevent it from being able to run the new OS"? Do WHAT?!?! Uhmm, as far as everything I've read about PPC2k3, the reason that landscape support, higher resolution, and several other "enhancements" we were hoping for didn't happen in this release, is because MS was making SURE to preserve backwards compatibility! It's a load of nonsense, and while my e740 functions just as well as it did on June 22nd, I generally try to get 2 decent years of life out of my PDA's... And does mean keeping them current. MS themselves state on their PPC page, that "any device capable of running PPC2k2 can also run Windows Mobile for Pocket PC". I use WiFi every day, PIE enhancements would dramatically increase the useabilty of my device. And after the disappointment of purchasing the "latest and greatest" XScale device, that runs *slower* than many SA206 mhz devices, to finally have an OS that would appear to finally justify all the CRAP e740 owners have gone thru to get a decent, reliable PDA, would really go a long way towards making it right. Alas, it appears this is not the case.

As for not being the "top of the line" model, hey, it's still the ONLY high end Toshiba PDA available in several markets and retail outlets. It hasn't been pulled from shelves, and I feel REALLY bad for all the folks that bought one within the so-called "free upgrade" period only to find out they were LIED TO.

Regardless of whether this upgrade is "obligatory" or not, look at how the other manufacturers are handling it - they don't *have* to put it out either, but they ARE - because they know that's what their customers want. Toshiba obviously does not give a rat's ass about what their customers think, and you know what? They aren't going to have very many left if they continue on this path. If they were the only PDA in town, they might be able to get away with "setting the bar". But look around, they have stiff competition that IS trying to satisfy their customer base. You would think, with Toshiba being a relatively new player in the PPC world, they would be trying to BUILD marketshare and ATTRACT loyal customers. Instead, they are doing the opposite. They are driving off the very people who took a chance and decided to support Toshiba's entry into this market.

BAD MOVE, TOSHIBA! :devilboy:

You're right, Toshiba does not *HAVE* to release or support this update. Thousands of folks also do not *HAVE* to purchase any more Toshiba products. And that's exactly what we'll do. I've never been an iPaq fan before, but I tell you what, they DO support their customers, and I'll be first in line to give them my hard earned cash when I'm ready for a new PDA!

[Jason Dunn]

Nowhere does it say they will upgrade the OS, either for free or at a price.

You're forgetting Sven that all the Pocket PCs were marketed and sold loudly trumpeting the Flash ROM capabilities as being key for operating system upgrades in the future.

It's ridiculous, and more than a little callous, to say that someone who purchased a Pocket PC less than a year old shouldn't expect an operating system upgrade - that was one of touted benefits of moving all Pocket PCs to ARM processors and mandating Flash ROM. To watch HP deliver on this promise across a wide range of devices (5000 series, 3900 series, 3800 series) and then for Toshiba to only upgrade a very recent device, shows they care very little about customer loyalty and satisfaction (although I'm cheesed at HP for not offering a 1910 upgrade). They've had this attitude all along with regards to their ROM updates - I would certainly think twice about buying a product from a company that doesn't seem to want my long-term business.

[Jason Dunn]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but have you thought about the fact that if they do put 2003 on these devices, there will be no performance improvement?

How do you know that for a fact? The evidence I've seem shows the exact opposite of what you're saying. How did you come to this conclusion?

[gorkon280]

My Jornada still works fine, BTW. It did not cease functioning or even start operating at a reduced capacity on June 23rd.

I agree with you on the cease functioning point. The e310 did not have as many issues as the e740 does and still does in the US. There's only been one ROM update in a year where HP has had several. I think the folks that are saying aww now I own a brick are getting a little too pissed off. I am very pissed, but I still can use my device even with resetting every day, the today screen's text going white and a dust bunny in my screen. BUT my point is I should not have to. Toshiba should issue this update. I would have gladly paid them for it. Now I won't because they basically told me they did not want my money any more and they will never get my money again. Not even for a TV!

[Jason Dunn]

Shame on you Toshiba. But more shame on MSFT. If Microsoft can force OEMs to adhere to certain design criteria, they should force them to adhere to certain "upgrade" policies.

You have to remember the position that Microsoft is in here though Bob - they are still the underdog on this market, and getting every single possible OEM signed up is still a major goal for them. It's one thing to say "You need to have a 320 x 240 screen" (telling them how to make a Pocket PC), and it's quite another to say "You need to provide upgrades for your customers for 24 months" (telling them how to run their business). Remember that Toshiba was going to go with Palm, but Palm wouldn't give Toshiba the time of day (or so the story goes). If Microsoft started laying down the law on exactly what Toshiba needed to do AFTER they sold the Pocket PC to their customer, Toshiba might have said "Forget it - we'll go make our own OS" and walked away.

I truly do not feel the oweness falls to Microsoft on this issue. They've done their part by unifying the platform on one CPU, and mandating Flash ROM for easy upgrades. Beyond that, it becomes an issue of customer service, and that's up to each OEM.

[MonkeyGrass]

It's ridiculous, and more than a little callous, to say that someone who purchased a Pocket PC less than a year old shouldn't expect an operating system upgrade - that was one of touted benefits of moving all Pocket PCs to ARM processors and mandating Flash ROM. To watch HP deliver on this promise across a wide range of devices (5000 series, 3900 series, 3800 series) and then for Toshiba to only upgrade a very recent device, shows they care very little about customer loyalty and satisfaction (although I'm cheesed at HP for not offering a 1910 upgrade). They've had this attitude all along with regards to their ROM updates - I would certainly think twice about buying a product from a company that doesn't seem to want my long-term business.

Well said Jason, I and I just want to add a heartfelt THANK YOU for helping to publicize our cause. It means a great deal to me, and I'm sure all the other Toshiba "beta testers" as well!

[Bill Gunn]

Why are people willing to accept a non-upgradable PocketPC OS? Can you imagine the backlash if people had to buy a new desktop PC for every minor update of Windows? :?:

I'll get blasted, but I think you are expecting things that legitimately the company has no responsibility to provide. I gather that you did get an EUU3 for the Toshiba. That is the latest 'update' (not upgrade) to the item you purchased. That sounds like the 'support' provided by the other vendors. How long have you had these things? I would guess there is a year warranty. Is that up? Toshiba has the responsibility to support the item you bought, not to provide you with a 'new', 'enhanced', 'upgraded' product. Not providing an upgrade is a legitimate marketing decision. If that results in folks shying away from Toshiba, so be it. If Toshiba's support is shoddy in general, that is a different issue. I don't think you should be indignanat about not being able to upgrade though.

I'm sitting here with a Jornada and feel the same way about it. I was never guaranteed an upgrade to the next OS and circumstances have made my unit a discontinued line. Like it or not, I wouldn't expect an OEM to put much effort into a discontinued product. My year warranty is up. If you bought your Jornada (new) less than a year ago, it still has the support it came with. You can still get all the patches, and you can still get service. Nowhere does it say they will upgrade the OS, either for free or at a price.

My Jornada still works fine, BTW. It did not cease functioning or even start operating at a reduced capacity on June 23rd.

[Jason Dunn]

Why are people willing to accept a non-upgradable PocketPC OS? Can you imagine the backlash if people had to buy a new desktop PC for every minor update of Windows? :?:

To be fair, I wouldn't call Pocket PC 2003 a "minor update" (it's a huge update under the surface), but you're right, I would be ticked off that a computer I bought wasn't able to upgrade to a new desktop version of Windows. It's more complex to upgrade a Flash-ROM based device than it is to upgrade a hard drive-based device, but there's no reason why Toshiba can't offer this upgrade. They're simply choosing not to.

If Longhorn REQUIRES certain hardware on my desktop PC, and I can't upgrade because of that, I wouldn't be bitter. Ok, not very bitter. :wink: In the same vein, if Windows Mobile 2003 required some sort of special hardware that Toshiba didn't know they needed to have, a non-upgrade would be more forgivable.

That's not the case here though, which is why I find Toshiba's behaviour so inexcusable.

[Marc Zimmermann]

GRANTED, the 250 has a 100 MHz system bus and the 255 a 200 MHz bus and this MAY be the source of some of the boost [...]

It IS key in the performance boost. The rest of the operating system is not optimized or adapted for XScale - it works just as well on StrongARM as Pocket PC 2002 did.

StrongARM devices have a 106MHz bus, so there is a little performance advantage for the older processor sibling that cannot be overcome, even with a new operating system release.

[Kiyoshi]

I think that I've had one of the worst PDA experiences with Toshiba that anyone can speak of (therefore I signed the petition!)

First, I thought I was buying a e740 from a respectable guy on eBay for $300, and when I finally got it two weeks later it was a e740-NW!!! The guy won't refund me money for the Wi-Fi card I bought to replace my missing capabilities. He hasn't eMailed me for a month or so now.

Next, I see that there's all these bugs with the e740, like the white text (doesn't really bother me), the Activesync disconnects (which wouldn't allow me to move big files to my PDA), DUST GETTING UNDER THE SCREEN, MY PET PEEVE WITH ELECTRONICS, and the usual 1% battery problem.

Now, I guess that Toshiba won't be giving upgrades to PPC2003 to the older devices for free, I saw that their requirements was that you have to buy a e750 from May 23, 2003 to September 23 (or so), 2003 and then you'll get the upgrade. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this update policy, cuz I think I'm hearing things different from what the MSFT upgrade website says)

[Bob Anderson]

... Toshiba might have said "Forget it - we'll go make our own OS" and walked away.

I truly do not feel the oweness falls to Microsoft on this issue. They've done their part by unifying the platform on one CPU, and mandating Flash ROM for easy upgrades. Beyond that, it becomes an issue of customer service, and that's up to each OEM.

In theory, I agree... but we all know the giant called MSFT could exert some pressure (God knows they do it all the time) to make it inconvenient for Toshiba not to do an upgrade... In all, however, you brought up excellent points.

The ultimate sway for Toshiba will be the owners of their devices complaining about the lack of support/upgrades ... and those contemplating buying a new PPC staying away from vendors that don't support upgrades.

Consumers take note... your biggest power in situations like this is to simply vote with your wallet. Find vendors with a known history of upgrades/support and give them your money.

[LAVA]

There should be a Jornada petition as well. I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS THE VICTIM OF A MERGER! I paid a significant amount of money for that dust bunny! I want my support! :grumble:

Well if you are going to do a Jordana petition we might as well do a Casio e125 :D (MIPS :D)

I think you are missing the point. Jason said in his original post that he was disappointed about how he has been treated as a customer. HP has treated their Jornada owners like 'Black Sheep'. As soon as the merger happened, they shed their Jornada and decided to only produce the IPaq. While this was great news for all of the IPaq owners out there, I feel that HP should have (at a bare minimum) reached out to there Jornada owners with some sort of incentive to stay an HP loyalist. While they certainlty didn't have to do this, I believe it was a poor business decision not to. Instead of reaching out to their Jornada owners, it felt as if we were being assimilated. (Resistance if futile).

I, for one, am just as upset with HP as Jason is with Toshiba. I will never buy another PPC from HP. And, I am considering buying my next printer from Lexmark (or Dell). They could have changed my mind by just offering further support for the Jornada (and/or offered some incentive to move to the IPaq line of PPCs).

I have always been a HUGE supported of HP. I owned the original HP palmtop with CE 1.0, never bought anything but HP printers, and even own a few HP network switches and hubs. But, I will NEVER buy another product from them because of the way I was treated as an owner of their products.

OK, I will get off of my soapbox now.

[gorkon280]

It IS key in the performance boost. The rest of the operating system is not optimized or adapted for XScale - it works just as well on StrongARM as Pocket PC 2002 did.

StrongARM devices have a 106MHz bus, so there is a little performance advantage for the older processor sibling that cannot be overcome, even with a new operating system release.

Not entirely dude. First off, the ATI Imageon which noone has ever used in a program as of yet(except PocketTV and a couple others) is probably also a key factor in the crappiness. Notice I said that the bus speed would be a large part of the speed boost but not all of it. This could also be fixed with a better driver. Second, even if it did not produce a speed bump, it may fix some of the other issues which would make me happy anyway. I never really complained much about the performance in the first place...it was mostly the BUGS....the DAMN bugs!

[Tierran]

Jason, thanks a lot for putting this petition up here. Not surprised to see people complaining that we're doing it. I'd like to ask those of you who are blasting us for doing this, why do you care?

There are thousands of people who are upset at Toshiba. Windows Mobile 2003 is NOT the first problem we've had with them. Our devices have MAJOR bugs in them that Toshiba of America will simply not acknowledge. The standard fix for everything is to remove our memory card. Did you know that memory cards were only supposed to be placed into your units for the expressed purpose of backing up your PDA and then removed again? That's right, a dual memory slot PDA isn't supposed to use the cards for storage of files. Or so Toshiba would have us believe.

To make it worse, it is KNOWN that two ROM updates have been created in the past 8 months. But for reasons that are completely unknown to us, Toshiba refuses to release them. Ctitanic over at Brighthand has done an amazing job getting these out to the Toshiba community, but let me ask all of you who are blasting us - Should people who purchased top-of-the-line PDAs be FORCED to use alternate means other than the company to fix major bugs? I have called up Toshiba and asked them about the ROMs and they have said they know nothing about them or they're not allowed to say. Does this sound like a company that cares about its customers?

So you see, this has very little to do with Windows Mobile 2003. Even if they eventually release the OS for us, that won't change how angry many of us are at their lousy support. They have to do a lot more than just release it to us. However, I doubt we'll ever see that public appology we all deserve and many of us will vote with our wallets in the future. There's lots of other PDA makers out there. Its too bad, Toshiba can make a helluva device.

[toml]

You think 740 owners have it bad, try owning a Genio!

My e550 was (and still is one of, IMHO) the hottest thing out there.

We got dropped like a hot potato. No e550c to the USA. Took us even longer to get EUU3. We can't even get support, Toshiba considers us a redheaded stepchild and sends us to Audiovox. Audiovox says "a what?" when you call them. That's after you manage to find their number buried on their "self help" web site that is of no help because the Genio isn't even listed as a product...

[sponge]

If HP supported the Jornada line, you'd probably end up seeing higher prices for all devices due to the cost of having to have a whole other team of tech support, engineers, etc. Mergers happen. Products fail, deal with it.

Also, we care because this is a DISCUSSION board, where we can discuss the news post, and state our opinions. It IS PocketPC THOUGHTS right?

[stevehiner]

This makes my choice so much easier.

I've been putting off my PPC purchase for months now while waiting for Windows Mobile 2003. One of the things I was waiting for was to see who offered upgrades for their old models. Toshiba just shortened my list a little bit - they were one of the front runners until today. Even if they backed off and decided to provide an upgrade they have shown me that they can't be trusted.

That 2215 is looking sweeter and sweeter.

[brntcrsp]

LAVA

My response would have to be the exact opposite of yours. I purchased a Jornada 568 the month they were released. Since that time HP has consistently released EUUs, and they have offered repairs and provided drivers for their accesories for this line. Once the merger took place they did not have to even pay attention to Jornada owners, completely stopped offering EUUs, and removed any reference from their web site including all the drivers. The fact that they are continuing to provide, albeit limited, support even 6 months after the merger says a lot for their desire to make the transition from the Jornada line to another Pocket PC as painless as possible. And while I may have a personal dislike to the iPAQ line, the mere fact that I was not simply thrown to the wolves, like so many toshiba users, gives me confidence in both the Pocket PC/Windows Mobile platform, as it does with HP's commitment to a product line.

[possmann]

And this is another reason I will not buy a toshiba product - laptop, tabletpc much less Pocketpc. I still can't get past the ergonomics of the e-series... Who wants to hold a brick - geesh! :frusty: (thanks for the new ones Ed!)

[Enderet]

Grrr.... :frusty: You guys took my Casio e125 joke seriously.... :nonono: I was just trying to make a joke about how the chances for that "dust bunny" Jordana are the same as the e125 in my opinion. Meaning.... it wont happen. Oh and no I was not talking about the e200.... 0X

[Enderet]

And this is another reason I will not buy a toshiba product - laptop, tabletpc much less Pocketpc. I still can't get past the ergonomics of the e-series... Who wants to hold a brick - geesh! :frusty: (thanks for the new ones Ed!)

Its not that bad.... well I actually like it. It might not be as attractive as say... the 2215.... but thats just because of the squarish look. I like how slim it is compared to many other PPCs. 0X

[Marc Zimmermann]

Notice I said that the bus speed would be a large part of the speed boost but not all of it.

So did I: "It IS key in the performance boost."

Note the "key" which implies that other factors may be part, but the bus speed is the major one.

[Marc Zimmermann]

Once the merger took place they did not have to even pay attention to Jornada owners, completely stopped offering EUUs, and removed any reference from their web site including all the drivers.
HP released EUU3 for the 560 and all other updates are still available:
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/swindexes/hpjornada563922_swen.html

[Wasp]

As a person who is considering replacing my HP 568 with a 2003 pocket PC, Toshiba was a front runner for my selection. Based on your comments, I am going to hold out for a while and check out the alternatives. Toshiba would do well to remember that many potential buyers read the comments about various pocket PC's in discussion boards like Pocket PC Thoughts before buying. 8)

[BugDude10]

As an outraged e740 owner, I, of course, added my signature. In addition, I found the several e-mail I had received from Toshiba over the past nine months and just replied to them with the petition URL. (Just wanna make sure that as many people as possible at Toshiba see the petition.)

Whether you necessarily agree with the entirety of the petition, I would urge all PDA owners to sign up as a show of solidarity. Let's let the OEMs know that we, as their consumers (and financial supporters!), have certain expectations that we will pursue vigorously, and will not hesitate to make noise when we're disappointed. (If the petition and my direct complaints don't result in a satisfactory result, I will make it my priority to spread the news about Toshiba everywhere I can.)

Just my $0.02.

B.D.

[bbarker]

HP didn't have to do more than they've done to support Jornada owners. But by failing to do so they have alienated some of their customers. I've never wanted an iPaq, but the h2200 overcomes most of my reasons. But HP also must overcome a couple of strikes against it caused by resentment. I can't say I won't buy another HP PPC. But given two comparable models from HP and another brand, I'd pick the non-HP one. The HP would have to be A LOT better to win.

[brntcrsp]

Once the merger took place they did not have to even pay attention to Jornada owners, completely stopped offering EUUs, and removed any reference from their web site including all the drivers.
HP released EUU3 for the 560 and all other updates are still available:
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/swindexes/hpjornada563922_swen.html


i should have written that better - I was implying that HP no longer had the obligation to provide those things after the merger, and they announced the end of the Jornada line, but they did.

[kaiden.1]

I for one am too impatient to be spending big money on a product from a company that turns around and dumps on you after the fact. And I am not going to spend big money a product from a company that I hope is going to support me after the fact. If they can't or don't want to understand the basic rules of customer service, then they can BITE ME! Toshiba!!!

I will never buy another prduct with your name on it period! I can choose to go else where, because there are other companies out there that do understand things and I do have a choice.

Your market position will die on the vine. And what's funny about it all is Toshiba will sit there and wonder "What did we do wrong?" DUH!!!! :evil:

Stupid companies; they get so big that they think they can do it there way! I will tell everyone to not buy from them, and I have good influence too. :wink:

[redifrogger]

I was signature 1312 - wow - this is getting signed in a hurry. Toshiba better take notice. :twisted:

[a_feigl]

With all of the new pocket pc's that have and are nearly released i have been pondering as which product to purchase. The e750 was a serious contender but after this news i will not be purchasing it.

Without strong support for a ppc there is no future proofing at all, thus the ppc becomes useless. Considering Toshiba is an innovater in this industry it is hard to believe that they would ignore such an issue as customer support. I am sure that i will purchase another good old faithful ipaq...

[gliscameria]

Just a fellow Toshiba owner... No problems with Toshiba to date, their technical support has always been on the balll with me, however, if most other manufacturers release a 2003 update and Toshiba does not (for the e700 series at least.. =p) I will be one very unhappy customer.

[oksa]

Toshiba Support in Norway said that they would release Windows Mobile update for the e740 at the end of the summer....

[Tierran]

Did you call them or email them? I'm not questioning you but I would like some details about where you got the info exactly

[oksa]

Did you call them or email them? I'm not questioning you but I would like some details about where you got the info exactly
emailHei,

Foreløpig er det ikke mulig å oppgradere softwaren til Pocket PC 2003, etter det jeg har hørt skal det komme en End User upgrade som gjør dette iløpet av sommeren. Legger ved link til siden hvor den evnt. blir lagt ut. I tillegg legger jeg ved en direkte link til foreløpig siste versjon av softwaren.

http://www.toshiba-tro.de/

http://support.toshiba-tro.de/tools/pda/e740/rom-image-upgr/english/r-im-upgr-e740-ppc2k-endu-en-106210409.html



This is in Norwegian, but he says that he's been told that it will come an End User Upgrade. He also provides a link to where its available when released. Notice that he's refering to "Pocket PC 2003"...

[Christian]

As a person who is considering replacing my HP 568 with a 2003 pocket PC, Toshiba was a front runner for my selection. Based on your comments, I am going to hold out for a while and check out the alternatives. Toshiba would do well to remember that many potential buyers read the comments about various pocket PC's in discussion boards like Pocket PC Thoughts before buying. 8)

Your decision is your decision, but after having owned an e740 with a total lifespan of slightly over a year and more bugs than I can list, I would sincerely recommend against a Toshiba model... and that goes without the current lack of support, which is not the first time. :devilboy:

[gkwnabe]

I am a new subscriber to Thoughts and just had to comment on the frustrations of Toshiba owners. My experience both as a customer as well as employee of 3 different Japanese manufacturers is that this is pretty much par for the course. The quality of products engineered through Japan continue to be exemplary. However the culture differences become very apparent "after the sale". Just take a look at almost any customer review for almost any Japanese manufacturer and you will find the same thing .... very poor customer service :cry: Although it is clear that the levels of service have suffered for almost every company due to workforce reductions, in the case of the Sonys. Toshibas. Mitsubishi's , etc ... it is business as usual.

But maybe it's just me ... :oops:

[Newsboy]

This is very much a function of culture. With less living space available, more money is spent on consumer goods in Japan than in the US. Product Life cycles are considerably shorter, so manufacturers don't plan for the long life cycles expected from US consumers. This is why you find Akibara in Japan, literally streets lined with pawn shops for second-hand Japanese consumer electronics. Electronics are often pawned off for cash just months after initial purchase in order to go buy the latest devices.