Pocket Informant 2003 Compatibility and 4.5 Preview

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketinformant.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7772' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketinformant.com/foru...opic.php?p=7772</a><br /><br /></div>Alex Kac wrote in to let us know that the existing PI release is already fully compatible. He also has some awesome screenshots of the upcoming release, so check it out. It's great to see such active competition for the best PIM -- that's how the Pocket PC platform will continue to improve. :)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20030623-PI45Preview.gif" />

[ikesler]

All I can say is.......... 4.5 rocks........ :D

[Mark R Penn]

It's worth looking here (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456) as well!

[tmulli]

Can't wait :D

[ctmagnus]

OMG! Must... keep... pants... on!

:mrgreen:

[Kati Compton]

OMG! Must... keep... pants... on!
I don't care HOW exciting a software (or OS) release is. I hope no one has had trouble keeping their pants on. :lol:

[jonlien2003]

How is Pocket Informant better than Agenda Fusion?

[ikesler]

Personally I feel the best way to compare is to demo both products and decide for yourself...... But personally, having used both.... I must say that PI is much further ahead in features and general UI. Plus the 4.5 is fantastic....... just wait and see.

[Mark R Penn]

I agree with Ian - try both. The list of features that PI has that AF is missing goes on and on and on.

Remember no-one has full details of both new versions yet, but from what's been announced so far, AF5 does not add a single feature that was not already in PI - Day View, full screen Month View, Graphical Week View, Date Picker (AF's covers 12 months, while PI's covers a choice of either 2 or 6 months, but I believe in AF you have to tell it which calendar view you want to jump to when you click a date, while in PI it's automatic - it jumps to whichever view you have open).

I believe the two suit different people, so try both.

[Pony99CA]

OMG! Must... keep... pants... on!
I don't care HOW exciting a software (or OS) release is. I hope no one has had trouble keeping their pants on. :lol:
Especially if that person looks like ctmagnus' avatar. :-)

Steve

[Doug Raeburn]

One claim often made for AF is that it is easier to understand. Take a look at these two screen shots, and see if you agree:

I believe the two suit different people, so try both.

C'mon, Mark... I think that comparison is a little unfair.

5 days vs. 7 days and clearly MUCH less data in PI. And obviously not a single overlapping appointment.

Let's keep a little perspective here. If you're going to present something like this as a comparison of relative complexity of the two products, at least have both displaying the same data.

Also, as a courtesy to Alex, I'm keeping my direct comparisons of the products limited to the D1 support board, rather than promote the religious wars that have existed in the past. You may do what you wish.

[Crystal Eitle]

One claim often made for AF is that it is easier to understand. Take a look at these two screen shots, and see if you agree:

I believe the two suit different people, so try both.

C'mon, Mark... I think that comparison is a little unfair.

5 days vs. 7 days and clearly MUCH less data in PI. And obviously not a single overlapping appointment.

Let's keep a little perspective here.
I agree. I'd like to see the same schedule for the same person on both programs.

[Mark R Penn]

My appologies - but the direct comparrison was in reply to someone who asked for a direct comparrison, and I used the only AF screen shot I have available!

I think actually this is an ongoing marketing problem for any PIM developer - if you try to show just how much info the preogramme can convey, it can look over complex to the unfamiliar, while if you try to keep the screen shots minimalistic and clean, it looks like you don't handle enough data!

Obviously I don't have the same data available in both programmes (because of course no one actually HAS both programmes yet), so I can't offer that. Instead I'll remove the comparrison.

I suggest what people do is exactly what I said they should do - instal both and see which they prefer with their own data.

[Doug Raeburn]

Thanks for removing the screenshot comparisons. I realize that nobody can do this kind of comparison at this point, since we'd be comparing beta products, so it's usually best to decline such requests. And if you can't do a truly fair comparison, your best bet is to not do one at all.

And as I said, I would absolutely not do such a comparison on a public board like this anyway, even if I could do so with the same data. I've tried them in the past, but such posts have caused way too many problems. Limit such posts to the PI boards, as I do to the D1 boards, and let the reviews and demo versions to the talking. Just a suggestion, but I think it's a very good and fair one.

At any rate, I do agree... the best bet is to try them both.

[Mark R Penn]

Cheers Doug!

Of course neither you nor I could do a fair comparrison anyway - you're an AF fan, I'm a PI fan. It would be like asking a Chelsea FC supporter to do a fair analysys of Arsenal FC!!!

For that reason I think these comparrisons, if they are going to be made (and I accept your point that they probably shouldn't), are better made on public boards than on "product specific" ones like PI's or AF's. At least that way they are open to general discussion and to all to state their views! I'd rather do that than hide within the PI forum and make comparrisons that no AF user is likely to scrutinise! That's why you'll find no comparrisons from me in the PI forum.

Fights are only ever fair if they're on neutral ground, but I'd rather have no fight anyway, as you say!

Of course you are right and this particular thread (or the one discussing the AF release) is not the right place for it, so sorry again.

[Birdiestyle]

Do you think a .0x release would get front page exposure to complete the trifecta... Hmmm.....

Ulti-Planner has gone 1.02... Which actuallly added a lot!! Ok, not quite
as much as the other guys, but a whole bunch of what people were
requesting including: color theme file support, ISO Week #s, date formats, month/week jumping, etc.....

[Doug Raeburn]

Cheers Doug!

Of course neither you nor I could do a fair comparrison anyway - you're an AF fan, I'm a PI fan. It would be like asking a Chelsea FC supporter to do a fair analysys of Arsenal FC!!!

For that reason I think these comparrisons, if they are going to be made (and I accept your point that they probably shouldn't), are better made on public boards than on "product specific" ones like PI's or AF's. At least that way they are open to general discussion and to all to state their views! I'd rather do that than hide within the PI forum and make comparrisons that no AF user is likely to scrutinise! That's why you'll find no comparrisons from me in the PI forum.

Fights are only ever fair if they're on neutral ground, but I'd rather have no fight anyway, as you say!

Of course you are right and this particular thread (or the one discussing the AF release) is not the right place for it, so sorry again.

Hi Mark...

I agree that the comparisons can occur on public boards, but IMO people like you and me who are affliliated in some way with one product or the other should remain neutral in such discussions. What I meant was that any comparisons that I make are limited to the D1 board, so there's no accusations of impropriety. It's not "hiding", it's more a courtesy to the other guys. What any other member of any other board wants to post on that board is obviously completely their affair, and that's how the public debates happen. Which is how it should be.

Again, that's my opinion... you can do what you feel is best.

Doug

PS - your FC references are lost on me, although I get the point... I'm just a dumb ol' Yankee... :wink:

[Mark R Penn]

Do you think a .0x release would get front page exposure to complete the trifecta... Hmmm.....

I don't know if it would - but it should! Lets get as much competition going as possible, so that Alex remains motivated to keep PI the absolute best there is! (unashamed biased comment, but then I'm not affiliated in any way other than being a fan, and an unpaid moderator - YMMV)

[Janak Parekh]

Do you think a .0x release would get front page exposure to complete the trifecta... Hmmm.....
We haven't had any news submissions on Ulti-Planner, so I can't say. ;)

--janak

[bremeski]

Can you tell me if there is a view that shows both appointments and tasks (to dos)?

[ikesler]

In PI........... pick one......... agenda view, day view, week view, month view........ all can do both

[Mark R Penn]

In PI........... pick one......... agenda view, day view, week view, month view........ all can do both

And what's more they can do it independently of each other - so for example you can see tasks in day view, but not the others, if that's what you want.

Mark

[ikesler]

In PI........... pick one......... agenda view, day view, week view, month view........ all can do both

And what's more they can do it independently of each other - so for example you can see tasks in day view, but not the others, if that's what you want.

Mark

And you can choose what time frame of the tasks you want seen....... due today, in progress, undated...... so it is completely up to you. :D
For me tasks are shown in all veiws, except Day View......... in case you were curious :oops:

[Jonathon Watkins]

OMG! Must... keep... pants... on!
I don't care HOW exciting a software (or OS) release is. I hope no one has had trouble keeping their pants on. :lol:
Especially if that person looks like ctmagnus' avatar. :-)

Steve

8O Thanks Steve - exectly what I did NOT need going round my head! :razzing:

Really looking forward to 4.5. I only bought 4 recently, so it's good to see that the best just keeps getting better.

[Kati Compton]

8O Thanks Steve - exectly what I did NOT need going round my head! :razzing:
I'm still scarred from Ed's garters (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=124844&highlight=garters#124844)...

[Mark R Penn]

Just so people know, this (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456) thread is growing rapidly, and gives you an idea of some of the new features in PI.

I think it's important to note that all of the new features are there to make life easier. Not one has been added for the sake of just having more features - all either make it easier to use the programme (like direct entry in day view and template shortcuts), or make it easier and more intuitive to organise your life (like the new priority manager and contact category grouping). After all, that is the basic function of a PIM!

One of the key reasons I love PI so much (and I'm a moderator on their forum because I'm an enthusiast, not the other way round!) is it's flexibility. It doesn't expect you to work it's way, instead it can be set up to work your way, and many of the new features extend that philosophy.

Features for features sake is pointless, and never has been the goal with PI. Features for flexibility or ease of use sake is another thing altogether, and that is what PI achieves.

In my opinion that's a more desirable aproach, when combined with thoughtful UI design, than a "one size fits all, only add a feature if EVERYONE wants it" mind set.

Here's a challenge for anyone who's unsure if PI might be too powerful/too limited/too complicated for them: come over to the PI forum (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/index.php), and tell the users there what you want to achieve - simplicity, a complex scenario, something you've done in another PIM on either desktop or PPC or maybe even Palm/Psion, or something you're strugggling to get organised - and I'm confident that as long as it's not physically impossible on a PPC, we'll show you how to do it easily using the new PI.

After all, it's what PI's designed for, and it's what we do day in day out on the forum!

[Jonathon Watkins]

8O Thanks Steve - exectly what I did NOT need going round my head! :razzing:
I'm still scarred from Ed's garters (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=124844&highlight=garters#124844)...

Don't be afraid – join us! A kilt is a great thing 8) (gaters are not btw. 8O )


I hope that PI 4.5 will have a Much better manual – I keep stumbling across new ways of doing things by reading about there here and finding things out by accident. It would be better is the manual was comprehensive rather than currently being….. not quite that. :?

I’d also REALY like to have the option to assign different sound alerts for alarms. Having the same ‘Biong’ for all my alarms is not good. My Psion could do it years ago and it was really good to be able to hear what class/category of alarm that was going off.

How about a sound ‘manager’ like the built in icon manager? Please?

[ctmagnus]

Don't be afraid – join us! A kilt is a great thing 8)

But not if worn the traditional way, ie with no underwear. :shocked!:

[Mark R Penn]

I hope that PI 4.5 will have a Much better manual – I keep stumbling across new ways of doing things by reading about there here and finding things out by accident. It would be better is the manual was comprehensive rather than currently being….. not quite that. :?

I’d also REALY like to have the option to assign different sound alerts for alarms. Having the same ‘Biong’ for all my alarms is not good. My Psion could do it years ago and it was really good to be able to hear what class/category of alarm that was going off.

How about a sound ‘manager’ like the built in icon manager? Please?

The manual is being improved, yes, and that's certainly fair comment.

The alarms thing has been discussed a lot, and I agree that it would be a very good idea. The developers comment on it so far has been that he thinks it's best managed by a separate app like Super Alert. The alarms for tasks and appointments are passed to the OS to handle anyway, so PI doesn't actually have any control of them other than setting and editing them. Doesn't mean it won't happen in the future, but it's not in this release.

Mark

[msprague]

Yes, that occurred to me as a perfect improvement to spb pocket plus, the categorized alarming. Is spb reading this?

[Pony99CA]

I hope that PI 4.5 will have a Much better manual – I keep stumbling across new ways of doing things by reading about there here and finding things out by accident. It would be better is the manual was comprehensive rather than currently being….. not quite that. :?
The manual is being improved, yes, and that's certainly fair comment.
When Alex asked for someone to help with the manual, I offered and we exchanged a couple of E-mails. I guess he got someone else to do it. I know Alex is busy, but it would have been nice to hear back from him. I had several ideas for improving the manuals, too. :grumble:

Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

Don't be afraid – join us! A kilt is a great thing 8)

But not if worn the traditional way, ie with no underwear. :shocked!:

Ya Great Jessey Woose Lad! Tak it like a Mahn! :wink:

(It's not too bad really).

[Jonathon Watkins]

I’d also REALY like to have the option to assign different sound alerts for alarms. Having the same ‘Biong’ for all my alarms is not good. My Psion could do it years ago and it was really good to be able to hear what class/category of alarm that was going off.

How about a sound ‘manager’ like the built in icon manager? Please?

The alarms thing has been discussed a lot, and I agree that it would be a very good idea. The developers comment on it so far has been that he thinks it's best managed by a separate app like Super Alert. The alarms for tasks and appointments are passed to the OS to handle anyway, so PI doesn't actually have any control of them other than setting and editing them. Doesn't mean it won't happen in the future, but it's not in this release.

Mark

Hmmm, I had a look at Super Alert:
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/PPC_Reviews/superalert/
http://www.pocketpcminds.com/reviews/superalert.php

It looks good - and the first reviewer makes the point that the Psion was the high point as far as alarm sounds were concerned. It looks like I may have to give Super Alert a go. It would still be good to have it built-in to PI at some point in the future though. :wink:

[ctmagnus]

It looks like I may have to give Super Alert a go. It would still be good to have it built-in to PI at some point in the future though. :wink:

Hmm... Alex doesn't strike me as the takeover/aquisition type. More like the "ride around in a convertible with the top down all day" type. At least that's what I get from his avatar on the PI forums. :)

[iant54]

Doug Raeburn mentioned the Developer One forums - can anyone give me the URL? While I'm an avid user of PI, I've also got Code Wallet Pro, and I'd like to pick up tips on it.

[Mark R Penn]

The D1 forum is here (http://discuss.pocketnow.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26). Had a quick look, and I couldn't see anything on CodeWallet on the front page, but I didn't do a search so I expect it's there.

I couldn't possibly give you that info in a PI thread without also giving another link to the PI new features info (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456), now could I! If you already use PI and have version 4 onwards, you're about to get all that for free!

Mark

[Pony99CA]

I couldn't possibly give you that info in a PI thread without also giving another link to the PI new features info (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456), now could I! If you already use PI and have version 4 onwards, you're about to get all that for free!
Looks like good stuff.

I got a free upgrade from 3.46 (or whatever) to 4.0. Will I still get a free upgrade on this?

Steve

[Mark R Penn]

I don't know. Hmm......

I suspect we won't find out until WebIS make an official announcement re pricing, but I'll see what I can find out.

[ctmagnus]

I got a free upgrade from 3.46 (or whatever) to 4.0. Will I still get a free upgrade on this?

Steve

In most cases, .x releases are free and PI is one of those cases. So if you have 4.0 running on your device and install 4.5 you shouldn't have to pay again. AFAIK. YMMV.

[Kati Compton]

It's a free upgrade from 4.x according to their forums (http://www.pocketinformant.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1451&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0).

Now, I don't know if that applies if you got a free upgrade TO 4.x. But if you purchased 4.x, it should be free no matter what version number they call it.

[Mark R Penn]

I think the sittuation is, if you have a PI4.0 registration code (which IS different to a PI3 code), the new version will be free, regardless of whether you got that code free because you'd bought PI3 after December 1st 2002, or paid for it.

A PI4.x code is a PI4.x code is a PI4.x code, and I think will entitle you to 4.5 for nothing.

This is a slightly unique sittuation - the first time WebIS has ever released such a major upgrade so soon after the last. Alex, because he's a fair minded person, believes that it would be wrong to charge for it as if it were a major upgrade, simply because the time since the last one has been so short. The new feature list (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456) would easily justify a jump to 5.0, which by his normal policy would mean people like Steve would pay, but Alex believes the time scale does not.

But, I don't work for WebIS, so I don't know for sure. I DO know for sure that whatever Alex does, it will be fair.

[ctmagnus]

...it would be wrong to charge for it as if it were a major upgrade, simply because the time since the last one has been so short. The new feature list (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456) would easily justify a jump to 5.0, which by his normal policy would mean people like Steve would pay, but Alex believes the time scale does not.

That's exactly what I was thinking a few days ago. 0X

[Jonathon Watkins]

...it would be wrong to charge for it as if it were a major upgrade, simply because the time since the last one has been so short. The new feature list (http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1456) would easily justify a jump to 5.0, which by his normal policy would mean people like Steve would pay, but Alex believes the time scale does not.

That's exactly what I was thinking a few days ago. 0X

Agreed. As I bought PI 4 only a few weeks ago I would have been most un-amused if this had been a new full point version. :? It’s a fair thing to do and it’s one of the reasons I have no hesitations in recommending PI to other PPC users – and several have bought it too. 8)

[Mark R Penn]

Agreed. As I bought PI 4 only a few weeks ago I would have been most un-amused if this had been a new full point version. :? It’s a fair thing to do and it’s one of the reasons I have no hesitations in recommending PI to other PPC users – and several have bought it too. 8)

The policy has always been that even major updates are free to those who bought within three months, so you'd have been OK anyway!

[ikesler]

Hmmm, I had a look at Super Alert:
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/PPC_Reviews/superalert/
http://www.pocketpcminds.com/reviews/superalert.php

It looks good - and the first reviewer makes the point that the Psion was the high point as far as alarm sounds were concerned. It looks like I may have to give Super Alert a go. It would still be good to have it built-in to PI at some point in the future though. :wink:

Super Alert is a gem........ and works really well with PI...... as does Meeting Mute, another gem! :D