HP iPAQ 2215 - The New Shining Star in the Pocket PC Galaxy? [Archive]

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 09:10 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, before I slip into a coma at 2:10 AM, I'm going to hit the SUBMIT button and post this review. I'm about 28 hours late (I was hoping to originally publish this at 10 PM on Sunday night), but I hope you'll agree it was worth the wait. I've had the iPAQ 2215 for about a week now, and I've been using it as much as possible - this is truly an impressive device! It's also the first Pocket PC to win a very unique award from Pocket PC Thoughts...I hope you enjoy the review. Comments & questions welcome! UPDATE: There's a reason why publishing reviews at 2 AM isn't a good idea. I left out an entire section on the screen! The review has been updated, and several errors have been fixed. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-36.jpg" /><!> My goal in this review is to talk about the things that you might not already know, rather than cover all the specs in detail. The iPAQ 2215 is the first Pocket PC 2003 to hit the streets, equipped with a 400mHZ Intel PXA255 XScale CPU, a 100Mhz system bus (not 200Mhz as I had originally thought), 64 MB of RAM, 32 MB of Flash-ROM, a CompactFlash slot, and a SDIO slot. The full specs <a href="http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2003/ipaq/ds_h2200.pdf">can be found in this PDF file.</a> First Impressions <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-38.jpg" /> Figure 1: The packaging and first look at the iPAQ 2215. My first impressions as I unpacked the box were excellent – quality packaging with a catchy design. Upon opening the box, I was surprised (and impressed) to see Outlook 2002 (XP) versus the normal Outlook 2000 we're used to seeing. Perhaps with the imminent release of Office 2003, the prices on 2002 have dropped. Regardless, it's nice of HP to give their customers the most current version of Outlook rather than an old one. Well done HP! The packaging contained the usual assortment of accessories: a stylus, the cradle, that silly adaptor you need to plug power into the device (a pet peeve of mine), and a ho-hum case. I know you’re never going to get a <a href="http://www.vajacases.com">Vaja-class case</a> with a Pocket PC, but this case is utterly boring and barely functional. I’m sure there’s a way to make a cheap, but reasonably stylish case. Doesn’t HP have all those smart case engineers? ;-) <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-35.jpg" /> Figure 1a: The silly power dongle. Having one more part to lose is never a good thing. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-37.jpg" /> Figure 1b: The utterly boring black case. You can do better HP, I know you can! <PAGEBREAK> Hands on With the iPAQ 2215 <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-30.jpg" /> Figure 2a: The iPAQ 2215, up close and personal. The device itself elicited a "wow" effect when I first saw it (Figure 2) – this is the first device that looks more like an HP Jornada than an iPAQ, which means it's truly the first post-merger device. Unfortunately, they didn't take the screen cover from the Jornada, which was among its best features. In terms of construction, I have mixed feelings. The fit and finish on the 2215 is excellent – the d-pad doesn’t feel mushy like my Axim X5, it has rubber side panels for easier gripping, and the silver-painted plastic looks attractive. Still, when compared to the iPAQ 1910, the 2215 feels a little on the “cheap” side. There’s always a trade-off between body materials and weight – I love the look of metal like the XDA has, but it adds tremendously to the weight. HP is betting that people want a lighter device, which is probably a safe bet. You’ll definitely want a case for this device – I can’t imagine it taking much of a beating and still looking good afterwards. I can’t wait to see what Vaja, Proporta and Sena come up with! <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-29.jpg" /> Figure 2b: A close-up shot of the control pad (d-pad) and the buttons. The buttons are a little small for my comfort, but I believe they’d be good for gaming and the d-pad is excellent, if a touch over-sensitive. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-28.jpg" /> Figure 3: The top of the iPAQ 2215. From left to right: the stylus holder, the SD slot and CF slot (CF cover removed), microphone and 3.5mm headphone jack. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-36.jpg" /> Figure 4: What a noble-looking beast! The iPAQ 2215 – king of the Pocket PC jungle! For now… The device itself is very light – only 5.1 ounces (144.2 grams), and it can easily sit in a shirt Pocket without weighing it down. It’s 115.4 mm long, 76.4 mm wide and a svelte 15.4 mm thick. The next series of pictures show it compared with other devices so you can get an idea of its size. I wanted to make a special note of the fact that the bottom port is compatible with the Stowaway XT keyboard, which makes this an awesome tool for portable note taking and document work. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-33.jpg" /> Figure 5: From left to right, an iPAQ 5450, iPAQ 2215 and the iPAQ 1910. The 2215 is significantly shorter than the 5450 and nearly the same length as the 1910. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-34.jpg" /> Figure 6: From left to right, an iPAQ 5450, iPAQ 2215 and the iPAQ 1910. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-31.jpg" /> Figure 7: From bottom to top, an iPAQ 5450, iPAQ 2215 and the iPAQ 1910. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-32.jpg" /> Figure 8: From bottom to top, an iPAQ 5450, iPAQ 2215 and the iPAQ 1910. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-25.jpg" /> Figure 9: The big and the small: the iPAQ 2215 (left) and the Dell Axim X5 (right). <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-39.jpg" /> Figure 10: The iPAQ 2215 on top of a Dell Axim X5. <PAGEBREAK> What’s in the ROM Tom? If your name is Tom, consider yourself lucky, because I’m writing this section just for you. Seriously. Here’s what’s in the ROM from HP: iPAQ Image Viewer: This is the same application that comes with the iPAQ 5450, and to be frank, it's not a great image viewer. It scans the My Documents folder for images, but doesn't look any deeper, so if you have images in the My Pictures folder, it won't see them unless you manually type in the path or open the file picker. Why not just scan the entire My Documents folder and show the user what’s there? There’s no intelligent sensing to auto-rotate a photo, so you’ll have to do that manually for each image. The app had a tendency to spazz out on me as well – I’d be in slideshow mode, press the d-pad forward once, and it would quickly go through four images instead of just one. ClearType Tuner: This simple application allows you to adjust the ClearType effect. I can only describe the effect as “heavy font” and “light font”. I prefer to leave it at the far left for a “fat font” ClearType effect. I also like that the iPAQ 2215 offers system-wide ClearType like previous Pocket PC 2002 units. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ipaq2215review-snap014.gif " /> Figure 11: The iPAQ 2215 includes a ClearType tuner. iTask: Like several iPAQs before it, the 2215 includes iTask. I don’t want to offend the developer who wrote this application, but while it’s functionally very powerful, the user interface is cumbersome and worst of all, the graphic design makes is painfully evident that it doesn’t belong as part of the operating system. A little bit of polishing would allow this app to fit in. I’ll just install Pocket Plus anyway. ;-) <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ipaq2215review-snap013.gif " /> Figure 12: One of these things is not like the other… Diagnostic Toolkit: This application is a refined version of the iPAQ self-test and would likely help HP tech support pinpoint problems on the device. iPAQ Backup: This is the OEM version of Sprite Software’s Pocket Backup, by far the best backup software on the market today for the Pocket PC. HP made a wise decision by bundling this software with their device, but I fear without some sort of reminder when the user first turns on the device, they may never set up the scheduling feature and have a backup when they need it. Diagnostic Toolkit: This application is a refined version of the iPAQ self-test and would likely help HP tech support pinpoint problems on the device. Not much here for the end user, unless you run into trouble and want to self-diagnose. Remember to turn your head and cough! Nevo Remote Control: The 2215 is a consumer device, so HP did the right thing by enhancing the IR strength and adding in the excellent Nevo. I won't do a full review here, but suffice it to say that if you've been looking for a universal remote, Nevo will do the trick. I used it on my 5450 to program my entire entertainment system and it worked perfectly. Power: The Lifeblood of the Pocket PC If there's one thing that no Pocket PC has managed to ever do is have such immensely good battery life that it's not an issue. We're certainly light years ahead of the atrocious battery life of the iPAQ 3650, but the 2215 won't win any awards for battery life. In order to keep the size of the unit down, HP put in a small battery – only 900 mAH. Compare that to the massive 1440 mAH battery of the Dell Axim X5 and you can see the 2215 won't last as long as some other devices. The good news is that with Pocket PC 2003, the battery warning goes off at 25% instead of the normal 40% from Pocket PC 2002. This takes away the irritation if nothing else. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-27.jpg" /> Figure 13: The 900mAH removable battery on the iPAQ 2215. It's great that HP has moved to removeable batteries on all their devices. Using <a href="http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark">Spb Benchmark</a>, I found the following:<li>Maximum backlight, looping WMV video playback: 3 hours, 57 minutes <li>Display off, looping MP3 audio file: 8 hours 35 minutes <li>Maximum backlight, standard use test: 5 hours 39 minutes <li>Maximum backlight, Bluetooth active, no use: 5 hours 54 minutesAs you can see, this is just a little shy of the 12 hours HP quotes as the effective battery life on their Web site. :roll: The battery was fairly quick to charge: in two separate tests using <a href="http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark">Spb Benchmark</a>, the battery was recharged from flat to full in an average of 1 hour and 47 minutes. <PAGEBREAK> Device Memory The iPAQ 2215 has 64 MB of RAM and 32 MB of ROM. 57.11 MB of RAM are available to the user and HP puts this on the outside of the box to eliminate buyer confusion (they actually under-estimate a little, stating there are 56 MB of user RAM). The Flash ROM only has a meagre 3.83 MB for user storage, although that's enough for several applications to live in. The Pocket PC 2003 OS image has grown a little and HP went for a 32 MB ROM chip rather than the larger 48 MB ROM that some other Pocket PCs have. Device Performance The iPAQ 2215 represents an evolution of Pocket PC performance that brings together two important elements: the first Pocket PC operating system based on Windows CE .NET 4.2, and an Intel XScale PXA255 with a 200 mhz bus. When you power on the device and begin to use it, it's impressively fast – screen redraws are snappy (almost as fast as the Palm Zire 71). Here's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, and where I'll unleash a partial set of tests I did with the incredibly comprehensive <a href="http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com">Spb Benchmark</a> (ok, ok, I helped design the program, so of course I love it!). That's right, I could have taken even more benchmark screen shots. 8O Most of these are self-explanatory, but higher results (bigger bars) always mean more speed, which is better. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-1.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-2.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-3.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-4.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-5.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-6.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-7.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-8.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-9.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-10.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-11.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-12.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-13.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-14.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-15.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-16.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-17.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-18.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-19.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-20.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-21.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-22.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-23.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-24.gif" /> <PAGEBREAK> Performance Analysis in Brief As you can see by the results on the previous page, the 2215 is a top-performer. Perhaps the most shocking difference in speed for me was, strangely enough, ActiveSync speeds. I connected my iPAQ 2215 to the front USB 2.0 port on my Shuttle SS51G, and when I transferred 20 BMP images that were 250 KB each, the entire process only took a few seconds – I was amazed! The 2215 finally achieves real USB speeds and it makes a huge difference with file transfers of all types. This is the first device I can honestly say doesn't need a memory card reader to transfer music – it's fast enough on its own. Although the 2215 was speedy in most tests, it fell down in a few key areas. Listing a directory of 2000 files, it was 80% slower than an iPAQ 5450. On several of the graphics tests (GAPI BitBlt and the Arkaball test), it really fell behind the zippy 1910 – and what's most curious about this is that the 1910 includes no graphics co-processor, while the 2215 includes the MediaQ dedicated graphics processor. Either the MediaQ accelerates some functions at the expense of others, or Spb Benchmark is flawed in some way. I'm going to investigate further, but suffice it to say that when you're using the 2215, nothing about it will feel slow – this is the fastest overall Pocket PC I've ever used. Bluetooth – For Those Who Care Bluetooth is one of those technologies that I keep trying to love – really! I seem to have a 50/50 success rate with it and I tend not to be successful when I really need to be. I was able to connect an iPAQ 5450 to the iPAQ 2215 and transfer a file from one device to another (that was cool!), but I couldn’t get the 2215 to connect to my Iogear-Bluetooth dongle-equipped desktop PC. The worst part about Bluetooth for me is how arcane the troubleshooting is – I never know where to start. I don’t have a spare SIM for my T68 (and right now my <a href="http://www.fido.ca">Fido SIM</a> is in my SPV Smartphone), but I’m sure it would have been an easy setup to get the 2215 to connect to my T68i and do GPRS data. There’s no headset profile on the 2215, or a keyboard profile, so this device won't be usable in any cutting-edge Bluetooth scenarios. Maybe next year? So What About the Screen? The screen 3.5" back-lit transflective touch-screen on the 2215 is great, but it's not quite as good as the screen on the 1910. It's quite bright, but it lacks the depth of contrast that the 1910 has. Side by side with the 5450, it looks roughly on par – in normal lighting, it looks like it has slightly better contrast, which is surprising given the image below. I'm not sure why the 2210 image looks more washed out than the others. The screen is inferior to the iPAQ 1910, but it's still an excellent screen for viewing photos, and I have no complaints about it (although the screen from the 1910 would make this Pocket PC even better). I shot this using a Canon G2 on a tripod in complete darkness with no flash, then I cut out each screen in PhotoImpact and created the montage below – I wanted to get an idea of how each screen looked at maximum brightness, displaying the same theme. All devices had ClearType turned off. And speaking of ClearType, it's interesting to note that Windows Mobile 2003 displays ClearType on the Today screen and start menu, while on my iPAQ 5450 with Pocket PC 2002, ClearType isn't visible on either. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-40.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/jason-june03-ipaq2215-41.jpg" /></a> Figure 14: A screen comparison shot in the dark. Click the image for a full-size version. <PAGEBREAK> A Lot to Love for Audiophiles Because it’s been a while since I’ve used an iPAQ full-time, this is the first time I really sat down to test out the bass/treble boost functionality located in the control panel. Colour me impressed! After plugging in my Sony MDR-EX70LP headphones, I listened to a bass-friendly favourite of mine (Extreme’s “Tragic Comic”) that begins with a delicious riff from an acoustic bass, complete with the sound of the pick hitting the strings. Did the iPAQ 2215 pull it off? You bet! Even without the bass/treble adjustments, it sounded quite good (lacking slightly in bottom-end tones however). A few tweaks on the bass/treble sliders later and it sounded almost perfect. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ipaq2215review-snap016.gif" /> Figure 15: Bass and treble adjustments. At first I thought the amp didn’t go very loud, but just like your desktop version of Windows, there are two volume sliders you need to adjust to get maximum volume – the Windows Media player audio level and the system audio level. Once I cranked up both, it was quite loud. I wouldn’t recommend cranking up the system audio level all the way – I noticed a hint of distortion. A safe maximum would be the system volume on one below the top and the WMP volume level up all the way. There aren’t any headphones in the box, which is a great thing. Why? Because the 50 cent headphones all the OEMs include can’t do justice to any type of music (ok, perhaps country music, but I digress…). The user will experience much more satisfaction with the 2215 as a music player if they drop $20 on some intro-level headphones. Perhaps the most impressive thing was what I didn’t hear: no hiss. With most other Pocket PCs, when the amp is idling (not playing sound) but not yet in sleep mode, there’s a slight hiss. This hiss pervades every bit of audio that it plays, including music. Most of the time when you’re listening to music you wouldn’t hear the hiss. Still, knowing it was there always bothered me. Switching from song to song results in a very quiet pop, but even at maximum volume it’s almost inaudible. The dreaded “iPAQ audio pop” is finally gone for good! Video Playback – Better, But Not Quite Perfect Once of the things I’ve been told for months about the new Windows Media Player 9 Series client for the Pocket PC is how much they’ve improved the performance traits. I’ve seen some demos and was duly impressed, but I wanted to give it a try for myself. I took a 2 hour, 34 minute 502 MB MPEG1 rip of my Aliens 2 DVD at 192 x 320 resolution (455 Kbps) and, using the Windows 9 Series Encoder, I converted it to a 277 MB (263 Kbps) Windows Media Video file. The default Pocket PC profile for full-screen video is 320 x 240, but since the original source file was cropped to letterbox format, I adjusted the encoding profile to trim away the excess screen space which saved even more space than the already impressive WMV compression. The resulting video was easily played back in full screen mode by WMP9 and the audio and video were perfectly in sync. The quality was a little lacking on scenes with high motion and dark backgrounds – MPEG1 compression is known for its blockiness - so transcoding from that format into WMV is far from ideal. I haven’t had time to rip a new DVD, but considering that WMP seems to handle this bit rate without problems, I predict a raw rip to WMV would have great quality. All was not perfect however – I took a 362 Kbps WMV file and transcoded it to a 266 Kbps WMV file using the 9 Series encoder and the audio and video were slightly out of sync (about 5 ms). If you weren’t paying close attention, you might not notice it, but neither the original or the transcoded WMV file exhibited similar behaviour on my desktop PC, so I have to wonder what’s going on. I’ll investigate further, but so far everything I’ve thrown at the new Media Player has played, including video clips pulled directly off the Net (320 x 240, 368 Kbps). Reaching the point where you don’t necessarily need to transcode the video clip is a big step – it means less hassle and more natural use of your digital media. <PAGEBREAK> Gotchas Although I really like the iPAQ 2215, no review would be complete without me finding room for improvement in a few areas. ;-)<li>No screen cover – am I alone in thinking this is a useful feature that allows you to keep the device as small as possible by not needing a case, yet still protecting the screen? I must be the only one to think that, because other than the just-announced JVC, screen covers are a rare thing. <li>No USB charging like the 5450 - this is a great feature I’d like to see across the entire iPAQ line. <li>There’s no jog dial – this is a deal-breaker for some people. I personally don’t mind that much – the only functional jog-dial I’ve ever seen is the Sony full rotation jog dial. Until Pocket PC OEMs start to license that style of jog dial, everything else seems like a pale imitation to me. <li>The cradle is very light-weight and moves too easily when docking the iPAQ. I’d prefer to see something more substantial like the Dell Axim X5 cradle. <li>There’s no record button. A year ago, I used audio recordings a great deal, so this would have been a deal-breaker for me. But once I started using an XDA full time, I was weaned off this feature. If you live and die by voice recordings, you’ll have to re-map one of the four front buttons to record your audio. <li>The d-pad is hyper-sensitive. I found myself scrolling through multiple MS Reader eBook pages when I only wanted to go ahead one page. UPDATE: I adjusted the repeat rate in the button settings and now everything works as it should. It would be nice if HP set the default a little lower, because most users won't know to do this change (heck, I didn't!). <li>There’s no spare stylus. Come on HP, save your customers a bit of frustration by including a three cent stylus. You know we’re worth it! <li>Poor speaker placement – I want the sound coming from the same direction as the screen. The audio amp isn’t powerful enough to overcome this placement, resulting in poor audio performance if you’re showing someone a video clip and relying on the external audio for them to hear it. <li>When you soft reset the unit, it takes approximately 23 seconds to become usable again. That’s a long time, roughly twice as long as the Dell Axim X5. I guess the good news here is that the 2215 is much more stable than other Pocket PCs I’ve tested, so you shouldn’t need to soft reset very often at all, especially if you’re using a task killer to exit from your applications. <li>Although I know this is a budget device, I'd love to see a bigger battery – if they could reach 1440 mAH like the Axim, the device would be even more usable.Where to Buy The iPAQ 2215 can be <a href="http://www.mobileplanet.com/private/pocketpcthoughts/product.asp?dept%5Fid=2621&pf%5Fid=MP965605&listing=1">ordered through our affiliate partner, Mobile Planet, for $399.95.</a> Shipping is free until June 30th, 2003. Conclusions In case you haven't figured this out already, even with a few rough edges, the HP iPAQ 2215 is the fastest and one of the most all-around capable Pocket PCs I've ever seen. It's small, light, fast, has built-in Bluetooth, dual-slots and is relatively inexpensive at $399 US. HP did a superb job of creating a device that bridged the gap between the entry-level 1900 series devices and their flagship 5000 series devices. The 2215 is a well conceived product that properly balances the elements of price, performance and value, with very few compromises. For these reasons, it's the first recipient of the Pocket PC Thoughts Zen Award, our highest honour reserved for products that meet the highest standards of consumer value and technical achievement. [If we had finished our Pocket PC Thoughts Zen Award logo, this is where we'd put it. Until then, just imagine a cool-looking logo <a href="http://www.dance-centre.com/images/ying%20yang.gif">based around the ying-yang concept</a>]

Fzara

06-24-2003, 09:18 AM

MY GOD! I miight just have a heart attack looking at all that stuff to read!

How many benchmarks are those? Like 2,000?! All I can tell from the benchmarks is that the person from Microsoft who said that the Pocket PC OS will not be optimized for Xscale processors was lying.

Jason (Please, answer this tomorrow morning), have you tried testing out what the framerate is on PocketMVP, using some kind of similar video?

Nice work-an awesome review.

Daimaou

06-24-2003, 09:32 AM

THAT WHAT I CALL A F---- REVIEW ! OUCH ! 8O amazing JOB :werenotworthy:

Fzara

06-24-2003, 09:39 AM

One question though-why did the 1910 beat out all the other PPC's in terms of "Graphic Index"?

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them. :mrgreen:

rskoss

06-24-2003, 09:46 AM

>> There’s no headset profile on the 2215

That's the deal breaker for me. The next PDA I buy will work with both a bluetooth phone and bluetooth earphones.

echo

06-24-2003, 09:49 AM

i was curious what the difference between the Intel PXA255 and PXA250 CPU's is :?: also, is it the 200mhz bus that speeds things up in the 2215 or is it also the PPC2003 :?: how fast is the bus speed in the 3970's :?:

reason i wonder is that people are reporting that the 2215 are great with the snes emulation. if i upgraded my 3970, would how much performance increase would i expect to see? something comprable to this device?

jage

06-24-2003, 09:57 AM

MY GOD! I miight just have a heart attack looking at all that stuff to read!

How many benchmarks are those? Like 2,000?! All I can tell from the benchmarks is that the person from Microsoft who said that the Pocket PC OS will not be optimized for Xscale processors was lying.

Jason (Please, answer this tomorrow morning), have you tried testing out what the framerate is on PocketMVP, using some kind of similar video?

Nice work-an awesome review.

I didn't see any proof of X-Scale optimization...? Yeah, it's fast, but it looks more like pretty nicely done memory bus (especially looking at that memcpy test). Remember, the instructions X-Scale adds are more like some multiply-accumulate for video & music playback and some packed saturated arithmetic. Instructions like that are hardly useful outside games and multimedia and, should I add, useless in operating system. Besides, I doubt Windows Mobile 2003 even requires X-Scale. Maybe Windows Media Player and Cleartype has some optimizations for it, but outside that most likely nothing.

PPC 2003 aka Windows Mobile 2003 is probably going to speed up older StrongArm devices as well, when it comes to the applications and OS itself.

A good explanation (speculation, though) for the slow display performance is that MediaQ has a seperate memory mapped video buffer, with slow, uncached access... or, someone forgot to switch on write buffering on the CPU for the display RAM. :) It'd be interesting to see how it looks like when writing data to the buffer using ARM STM instructions. Another possibility is that GAPI takes excessive amount of time in functions GXBeginDraw() or GXEndDraw(). Ipaq 38xx has exactly this problem. If I had 2215 I could find it out in minutes. :) If this was the case, writing to video buffer directly would solve the problem.

I could write some video buffer testing code if someone would be interested to find out about the GAPI speed as well. Anyone interested with 221x? 8)

freitasm

06-24-2003, 10:09 AM

Jason that was a long wait :wink: Have a sleep, and thank you for this review!

albsilva

06-24-2003, 10:20 AM

Hi,
2 questions:
- I assume that there are no expansion sleeves for this new ipaq, right?
- Is there a chance to connect this ipaq to GPS devices thru serial cable without using a CF to serial adapter, like the ones from Socket?

Thanks,
Alberto Silva

aussieandre

06-24-2003, 10:29 AM

Fantastic review. I want one now but I will not be getting one because of the lack of a screen cover. The screen cover is one of the best features on my 3970. I cant believe HP dont include one.

Now, if only they would integrate a mobile phone.... :?:

Andre

Skoobouy

06-24-2003, 10:54 AM

Wow! It would be great to see a 1940 review like this. What a great review!

aris-www.todopocketpc.com

06-24-2003, 11:02 AM

Hi:
And what´s about the Rom Storage??

cmlpreston

06-24-2003, 11:27 AM

Jason,

Nice review. From someone who spends a large part of their time making graphs of data, please allow me to make a suggestion. On each of those graphs, you need to indicate is more, or less, better. It's not terribly clear from the graphs alone that a high number in the "Graphics index" test is good or bad. Same goes for several of the others.

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them.

Fzara - don't forget the Australians, too :D

cmlp

snowlion

06-24-2003, 11:28 AM

Hi,
2 questions:
- I assume that there are no expansion sleeves for this new ipaq, right?
- Is there a chance to connect this ipaq to GPS devices thru serial cable without using a CF to serial adapter, like the ones from Socket?

Thanks,
Alberto Silva

it seems like the serial port connector is the same as for the previous ipaqs (3800+)...so any gps that worked with them (many) should work with this also.

ethancaine

06-24-2003, 11:42 AM

My only question is "What processor (PXA-250 or -255) were the Axim benchmarks above taken from?

denivan

06-24-2003, 12:25 PM

Great review although it was obviously clear that Jason needed a little sleep, posting pictures twice, adding twice the same comment about the diagnostic tool...pretty funny, makes me picture in what sleep deprived state you were writing this behind your desk ;)

Too bad though that the D-pad seems too sensitive , how can one read ebooks in a comfortable matter without a Jog Dial and without a usefull D-pad ?

Interested to see 'real life' benchmarks though. I assume there must be something wrong with your benchmarking software, so it should be best if some benchmarks were done using PocketMVP (Divx) and a NES or SNES emulator of some sort.

Thnx for the extensive review !

Ivan

Pony99CA

06-24-2003, 12:40 PM

For these reasons, it's the first recipient of the Pocket PC Thoughts Zen Award, our highest honour reserved for products that meet the highest standards of consumer value and technical achievement.
Did I miss something -- like the vote on the name of the award? I know you were going to pick the name anyway, and could override the vote, so I'm just curious. :?:

Steve

Pony99CA

06-24-2003, 12:45 PM

Jason (Please, answer this tomorrow morning), have you tried testing out what the framerate is on PocketMVP, using some kind of similar video?
I've read that Pocket MVP doesn't work on WM 2003 PP (Windows Mobile 2003 for Pocket PC). I'm sure that will be fixed soon, but don't count on getting that information right away.

Steve

Palmguy

06-24-2003, 12:58 PM

Jason,

Nice review. From someone who spends a large part of their time making graphs of data, please allow me to make a suggestion. On each of those graphs, you need to indicate is more, or less, better. It's not terribly clear from the graphs alone that a high number in the "Graphics index" test is good or bad. Same goes for several of the others.

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them.

Fzara - don't forget the Australians, too :D

cmlp

but higher results (bigger bars) always mean more speed, which is better.

bitbank

06-24-2003, 01:05 PM

Try running my gapiinfo program on the 2215. It sounds like it's got the same problem as the 38XX (offscreen buffer). This can be fixed with a simple workaround in software to restore full speed GAPI access.

If "GXIsDisplayDRAMBuffer()" returns a TRUE (1), then this device has the same problem as the 38xx and will need every app which uses GAPI to hardcode the true video address.

Use this link to get it:
http://www.bitbanksoftware.com/downloads/gapiinfo.zip

Larry B.

lonesniper

06-24-2003, 01:09 PM

Does the included cradle allow you to charge a spare battery and the unit? HP has an accessory cradle that will, can't find any information about the included one.

Thanks for help. I am very excited about this product :-)
Colin

Timothy Rapson

06-24-2003, 01:13 PM

Steve's review over at Brighthand is far more gushing with praise than yours. Cheers to you, Jason for showing some restraint and balance.

As I wrote over there:Yep, it's another PPC
I don't see the raving over the 2200.

It looks like nothing but a slightly smaller Toshiba 750 or Axim X5 with blue tooth.

The Axim adds the jog dial and record button. It's significantly cheaper.

The Toshiba adds jog dial, record button, and WiFi. It's significantly more expensive.

What else is there that I am missing? I like the size, but that mid-sized messes up the hardware categories and only means that it won't have the larger batteries of the Axim and E750. In particular, if the 2200 gets 8-12 hours with all the new powersaving features, the Axim should benefit from the same advance (made by Intel and MS, not HP) and get 12-18.

I picked one up at the Circuit City and held it next to the Tungstens. It does feel very nice, but it looks as cheap as the Axim. Just my impression, mind you. But, it really looks PLASTIC. It is almost exactly the width and height of the T and the length was right between the open and the closed T. Now, that is a nice mid size, but I would far rather have it the size of the Palm III standard and include a 1500 mAh battery and 3.8 inch screen. It would stil fit just fine in pocket or hand. It is smaller than standard, but not small enough to earn the place of "sports model" like the 1900.

The Axim X5 is the one on my buy list. If I can get a Toshiba e335 (and upgrade it) or Axim X3 for less than $150 I might try WM2k. But, not the 2200.

Andrew

06-24-2003, 01:20 PM

Hi, that was a great review btw - Im sorry to take this slightly off topic, but what exactly is USB charging? I have noticed it on my 5450 but havent switched it on, and my ipaq charges without it. Could you explain to me what it is please? I'd like to understand why you think it would be good on future ppcs too.
Thanks and once again kudos for a great review.

Andrew

Palmguy

06-24-2003, 01:20 PM

Does the included cradle allow you to charge a spare battery and the unit? HP has an accessory cradle that will, can't find any information about the included one.

Thanks for help. I am very excited about this product :-)
Colin

Yes.

mbeatle

06-24-2003, 01:22 PM

No screen cover – am I alone in thinking this is a useful feature
You're not alone. For me this would be a deciding factor in chosing one model over another.

Please continue to make this point in your reviews. Maybe someone who designs these things will listen.

Anthony Caruana

06-24-2003, 01:22 PM

Great review - well done :wink:

I have a question about benchmarks though. Are comparisons between different operating systems valid? :? It would be great to run a benchmark with, say, an Axim running 2002 vs 2003. Given that 2002 was not optimised for the 400 MHz CPUs I am not sure that all the performance differences are valid yet. Tehn we'd have a better idea if the Operating System or the hardareis delivering the big peformance increases.

wjsteele

06-24-2003, 01:35 PM

All I can tell from the benchmarks is that the person from Microsoft who said that the Pocket PC OS will not be optimized for Xscale processors was lying.

Sorry, my friend, there was NO OPTIMIZATIONS for XScale.

The reason the device is faster is because it is using the PXA255 processor, which has a 200mhz frontside bus... twice as fast as the PXA250 chips. The poor performance was an Intel PXA250 issue, as all the other ARM based processors do not have these performance issues.

Bill

k_kirk

06-24-2003, 01:49 PM

I have one question... Does SPB Full Screen Keyboard run on it? Very curious about PPC2003 compatibility of this product. Thanks.

radioflyer7

06-24-2003, 01:57 PM

Hi Jason,

First of of, thanks a great deal for the extensive review. The best I've read yet! I am considering buying the 2215 or the yet-to-be-released 5555 and am wondering what your thoughts are on them.

It's disappointing to see the current HP flagship 5455 sucking big time in all your tests. Do you think the new OS will improve the 5xxx line significantly? Well, I look forward to any thoughts you might have.

Steven

Paul P

06-24-2003, 02:10 PM

It looks like nothing but a slightly smaller Toshiba 750 or Axim X5 with blue tooth.
Slightly smaller? How about a lot smaller. Percentage wise there is a huge difference.
The Axim adds the jog dial and record button. It's significantly cheaper.
Yeah, I would have liked to see some kind of button on the side as well.
The Toshiba adds jog dial, record button, and WiFi. It's significantly more expensive.
What else is there that I am missing?
Have you skipped over the little section on benchmarks in Jason's review? :wink:
I like the size, but that mid-sized messes up the hardware categories and only means that it won't have the larger batteries of the Axim and E750. In particular, if the 2200 gets 8-12 hours with all the new powersaving features, the Axim should benefit from the same advance (made by Intel and MS, not HP) and get 12-18.
Display off, looping MP3 audio file: 8 hours 35 minutes
That beats my 1250mAH battery hands down.

Thanks for an excellent review.

nishka

06-24-2003, 02:40 PM

Let's face it - they could have hit a home run if they included built in wifi. Why they left it out in place of Bluetooth is just ridiculous. So we're forced to give up our SD slot for 802.11, and have some big ugly antenna sticking out the side of the unit. No thanks!

Maybe I'm just spoiled since I bought my girlfriend an iBook over the holidays, but I really love having the 802.11 completely integrated into the device. Now that hotspots are popping up all over the place, not having 802.11 integration is a crippling feature.

Bluetooth has some advantages, but I do not own a single bluetooth device (don't plan to either). I use 802.11 most of my waking hours.. It's just a darn shame.

So the first affordable PocketPC in a 2215 form factor with integrated 802.11 gets my purchase.

Enderet

06-24-2003, 02:40 PM

i was curious what the difference between the Intel PXA255 and PXA250 CPU's is :?: also, is it the 200mhz bus that speeds things up in the 2215 or is it also the PPC2003 :?: how fast is the bus speed in the 3970's :?:

reason i wonder is that people are reporting that the 2215 are great with the snes emulation. if i upgraded my 3970, would how much performance increase would i expect to see? something comprable to this device?

Not really... the main thing that is making SNES emulation possible is the 200mhz memory bus.... :?

Enderet

06-24-2003, 02:47 PM

Jason I barely got a chance to sit down and read your review after having stayed up all night with you guys during the release...(I had been up for about 40 something hours :twisted: ) and I finally got some sleep. It is a great review and I really appreciate all the time and effort that the PPCThoughts team has put into this site just to satisfy us leeches :) Thanks :rock on dude!: :clap:

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 03:05 PM

Try running my gapiinfo program on the 2215. It sounds like it's got the same problem as the 38XX (offscreen buffer). This can be fixed with a simple workaround in software to restore full speed GAPI access.

If "GXIsDisplayDRAMBuffer()" returns a TRUE (1), then this device has the same problem as the 38xx and will need every app which uses GAPI to hardcode the true video address.

Use this link to get it:
http://www.bitbanksoftware.com/downloads/gapiinfo.zip

Larry B.
Larry,
I get the following...

Video Address = 8FC42000
Display is DRAM buffer = 0
X Pitch = 00000002
Y Pitch = 000001E0
Pixel Format = 000000A0
OEM = hp iPAQ h2200

sponge

06-24-2003, 03:25 PM

I'm not sure if this was pointed out yet, but the MediaQ is responsible for slowdowns. Not as bad as the Imageon, but still, it leaves it's mark.

Deslock

06-24-2003, 03:34 PM

Excellent review Jason.

23 second reboot time?!?! WTF! Does PPC2003 have any sort of method to kill a process so you don't have to do a complete reset when something bombs?

I'm surprised by the benchmarks. Hopefully the GAPI graphics speed is just a problem with the benchmark... same goes for the directory list speed.

Also, how does the 1910 at 300 MHz compare?

Janak Parekh

06-24-2003, 03:39 PM

Too bad though that the D-pad seems too sensitive , how can one read ebooks in a comfortable matter without a Jog Dial and without a usefull D-pad ?
Actually, I had this problem on my original 3650 -- slowing down the repeat rate easily solves this problem. If I had seen the review I'd have suggested it to Jason. No biggie. :)

--janak

Janak Parekh

06-24-2003, 03:43 PM

Sorry, my friend, there was NO OPTIMIZATIONS for XScale.
So, this is a contentious point. I hear 75 different opinions, and when Jason wakes up, I'm going to ask him to ask his MS PR folks to get a definitive statement -- once and for all.

What I have heard is that CE .Net 4.2, which PPC2k3 is based on, has a lot of ARM optimizations, and that WMP9 can take advantage of XScale. Of course, it's not dependent on it, which is why the 1940 works well, and very fast. It's possible that the codebase is just hugely tweaked to support both ARMv4 and ARMv5 well. :?

--janak

caywen

06-24-2003, 03:44 PM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!

Yo Boss

06-24-2003, 03:48 PM

Do any of you know when the 2210 is coming out in UK? I went to several shops in Tottenham Court road in London today and they haven't even heard of it... :confused totally:
I can't wait to put my hands on one of those...

BugDude10

06-24-2003, 03:50 PM

Jason, excellent work, as always. (And to the rest of the PPCT crew as well!) This site is the best.

As for the device, well...

No jog wheel, no deal. Reading anything without the wheel is just a pain. It can't be that hard or expensive in implement, so just do it.

And, a close second: no Wi-Fi? Wi-Fi is still miles ahead of Bluetooth, so having #2 without #1 doesn't make much sense. (I like the concept of what BT can allow me to do, but not nearly as much as I like wandering around, connected by Wi-Fi.) Granted, Wi-Fi standards are changing, so adding one to a PDA may date it somehow, but we shouldn't be forced to add accessories (and pay the price therefor) just to have the connectivity that the industry is raving about.

Just my $0.02.

B.D.

disconnected

06-24-2003, 03:52 PM

Thanks for the thorough review!

I love the look of the 2200 (although it's not exactly what I want in a PPC), but a couple of things surprised or annoyed me --

I hate that stupid power adapter thingie that all iPAQs use now. With my 3630, if I wanted to use it while plugged in the cord didn't really get in my way, but now the whole mess is a several inch semi-stiff, awkward, and fragile piece that is totally in the way. (Admittedly, the 3630 needed to be plugged in more often). Also, in the car, since the connections on the 3630 were separate, you could have it plugged into the lighter thing for power and at the same time use the serial connector for a cell phone.

I'd hoped that the new iPAQs would have the latest version of the Sprite backup program, but it appears that it's the old version?

Now that we have been spoiled by this very extensive review, I am of course anxiously awaiting the same sort of review for the 5550 very soon. :D

Solarix

06-24-2003, 04:10 PM

23 seconds for a soft reset? What the Hell? I don't use an app killer, after a few apps have been opened and I dont feel like tapping my fingger off to get to the memory app to close em, I just soft reset. Takes about 10 seconds.

Eh well, I'm not gonna be getting a 1st Gen PPC'03 device anyways. The iPaq 5xxx unit was looking nice until I saw no Consumer IR.

Why oh why can't the High End Consumer Device be made. This one gets close, but is still w/o Digital Camera, Battery sucks, no Screen cover, etc. But it is cool that this is the first iPaq with Built-in CF Slot

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 04:23 PM

The two holes on the back are for a flip cover that is on the way.... Iguess we will see just how well thought out it was...this comes from a FAQ on HP's site .... I am looking for the link as I write...

sualeh

06-24-2003, 04:23 PM

Jason - does this come with Jeode?

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 04:23 PM

Here's a link to the brighthand thread...
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81601

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 04:26 PM

Jason - does this come with Jeode?
No it doesn't.... but the browser supports Java so if that's what your looking for your in luck if your looking to run Java apps.... well.... :?:

Pony99CA

06-24-2003, 04:38 PM

Jason - does this come with Jeode?
No it doesn't.... but the browser supports Java so if that's what your looking for your in luck if your looking to run Java apps.... well.... :?:
The browser supports Java and Javascript? So Microsoft is including their own Java Virtual Machine (JVM) in Pocket PC 2003? That's a surprise.

Steve

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 04:49 PM

Straight form Jason's PDF of WM2K3 enhancements:
http://mobileslash.com/jscript.jpg

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 04:50 PM

I guess it's just Jscript.... :oops:

spg

06-24-2003, 04:51 PM

Eggcellent review Jason, Thanks. :-) I don't think I've ever seen a review with so many benchmarks in my life!

Next time you go bashing country music though... I just might get ugly. :armed:

T-Will

06-24-2003, 04:56 PM

Nice review!

I think I'll stick with my 1910 until there's a Pocket PC that's as small as the 1900 or 2200 series with built-in WiFi and a record button.

Why would HP leave out a record button? Are they planning to release the iPAQ 2201 series which features a record button? Seems odd to me...

Foo Fighter

06-24-2003, 04:57 PM

Silly question..but are there new themes shipping with these new PPC models? I keep seeing colorful "Windows" themes in product shots which I haven't seen before. They appear to come in different color variations.

Just curious.

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 05:01 PM

Silly question..but are there new themes shipping with these new PPC models? I keep seeing colorful "Windows" themes in product shots which I haven't seen before. They appear to come in different color variations.

Just curious.
A new one called "Spiral" is the only alternate new theme included on the 2215...

Janak Parekh

06-24-2003, 05:04 PM

A new one called "Spiral" is the only alternate new theme included on the 2215...
Jason said he'll follow up with his contacts to see if he can find out if those screenshot themes exist. I hope so, because some of them are quite nice-looking. :)

--janak

Palmguy

06-24-2003, 05:11 PM

23 seconds for a soft reset? What the Hell? I don't use an app killer, after a few apps have been opened and I dont feel like tapping my fingger off to get to the memory app to close em, I just soft reset. Takes about 10 seconds.

Eh well, I'm not gonna be getting a 1st Gen PPC'03 device anyways. The iPaq 5xxx unit was looking nice until I saw no Consumer IR.

Why oh why can't the High End Consumer Device be made. This one gets close, but is still w/o Digital Camera, Battery sucks, no Screen cover, etc. But it is cool that this is the first iPaq with Built-in CF Slot

The battery sucks? I don't think so. It seems to be running about equal with my 3950 so far. That of course isn't scientific but it doesn't suck!

I just reset mine and it took 16 seconds. Not fast, but not 23 seconds either...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:15 PM

THAT WHAT I CALL A F---- REVIEW ! OUCH ! 8O amazing JOB :werenotworthy:

Thanks. I nearly went insane writing it, but it turned out pretty good. Maybe next time I won't procrastinate so much. :roll:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:19 PM

One question though-why did the 1910 beat out all the other PPC's in terms of "Graphic Index"?

As I said in the review, I'm not sure - with the MediaQ graphics co-processor, the 2215 should kick the stuffing out of the 1910 - but in a few tests, it doesn't. I can only theorize that the MediaQ is tuned for specific tasks (like MPEG playback) that Spb Benchmark isn't able to test. I'm going to try and get in touch with someone from MediaQ to get more info on this.

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them. :mrgreen:

I'm Canadian, so that's the way I spell. Duh. :lol:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:21 PM

i was curious what the difference between the Intel PXA255 and PXA250 CPU's is :?: also, is it the 200mhz bus that speeds things up in the 2215 or is it also the PPC2003 :?: how fast is the bus speed in the 3970's :?:

I'll be publishing some tests later this week that compare an iPAQ 3650 with 2000, 2002, and 2003 beta on it - that will give you a good idea of how much difference the OS makes on exactly the same hardware.

Enderet

06-24-2003, 05:25 PM

Bleh :( PPC made me do it. Ah i guess i cant really blame it on PPC... it looks like i might have messed up on one of my quizes. Heh. After staying up all night and reading and reading and making posts, I kinda forgot to study for the quiz. Hehehe...oh well. I did get about 80 posts done in about 24 hours :twisted:

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 05:26 PM

I'll be publishing some tests later this week that compare an iPAQ 3650 with 2000, 2002, and 2003 beta on it - that will give you a good idea of how much difference the OS makes on exactly the same hardware.
Stop the press you had 2003 on a 3650...???

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:36 PM

I didn't see any proof of X-Scale optimization...? Yeah, it's fast, but it looks more like pretty nicely done memory bus (especially looking at that memcpy test).

Correct. Windows Mobile 2003 is not optimized for Xscale - Microsoft has stated why over and over, but the basic reason is that it makes no sense to optimize for a specific processor from a specific company. Remember that Samsung is marking ARM processors now (the 1940 comes with one), so it makes no sense to cater to one company (Intel), even if the majority of the Pocket PCs are using that CPU. Microsoft optimizes for the instruction set of the CPU (ARM4 and ARM5), and it's up to the CPU company to work with that. Individual applications can be optimized for Xscale - I believe WMP9 is, and software vendors can optimize all they want.

PPC 2003 aka Windows Mobile 2003 is probably going to speed up older StrongArm devices as well, when it comes to the applications and OS itself.

Indeed, it does. :-) Benchmarks I'll publish later will show this...

A good explanation (speculation, though) for the slow display performance is that MediaQ has a seperate memory mapped video buffer, with slow, uncached access... I could write some video buffer testing code if someone would be interested to find out about the GAPI speed as well. Anyone interested with 221x? 8)

You sound like you know what you're talking about. :-) Email me privately and I'd like to follow up on this.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:38 PM

- I assume that there are no expansion sleeves for this new ipaq, right?

- Is there a chance to connect this ipaq to GPS devices thru serial cable without using a CF to serial adapter, like the ones from Socket?

1) Correct, and I'm happy to see that. Sleeves are so 2001. ;-)

2) It can connect to the Stowaway XT keyboard, which means it has the same connector as the 5450 (3900 too I think), so I'm sure that would be possible.

LAVA

06-24-2003, 05:39 PM

HP almost made a sale on me. Hey HP, WHERE IS THE FLIP COVER!?!?

Until they come out with another PPC that has a cover, I will stick with my Jornada 568, thank you very much.

Great device tho. It is great to see HP use some of the knowledge that made (makes) the Jornada such a great PPC.

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 05:44 PM

HP almost made a sale on me. Hey HP, WHERE IS THE FLIP COVER!?!?

Until they come out with another PPC that has a cover, I will stick with my Jornada 568, thank you very much.

Great device tho. It is great to see HP use some of the knowledge that made (makes) the Jornada such a great PPC.
It's on it's way according to HP's FAQ that's what the 2 holes on the back of the device are for!

Sunnyone

06-24-2003, 05:44 PM

Hey, Lava - rumor has it that a flip cover accessory is coming down the pike for the 22XX. Actually, there was a FAQ someone posted in a different forum a bit ago. See

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81601[/code]

Kaber

06-24-2003, 05:44 PM

No WiFi is the show stopper for me. Like Jason said, sleeves are so 2001, and so are CF and SD WiFi cards. Put it inside! All of it.

A camera, a GPS, bluetooth, WiFi, 256MB RAM, and a toothpick and a laser ray.

I wonder what we'll be seeing come Christmas time.

Sunnyone

06-24-2003, 05:45 PM

Jeremiah, you beat me! It was you who posted the link, now I remember! Thanks!

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:52 PM

And what´s about the Rom Storage??

3.84 MB free - it's in the section under "Memory". :-)

Xanadu

06-24-2003, 05:53 PM

Great review, Jason! Your hard work is appreciated! :mrgreen:

You mentioned that there were no headset or keyboard BT profiles on the 2215. Is this something that HP could add in a ROM update? Have they been known to add functionality like this in the past post-release?

Thanks!

Xan

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 05:54 PM

Jeremiah, you beat me! It was you who posted the link, now I remember! Thanks!
No problem! :wink:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:54 PM

Wow! It would be great to see a 1940 review like this. What a great review!

8O I'll see what I can do. :lol:

Programmer

06-24-2003, 05:55 PM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!

I currently have a 1910 and I am hoping the 1940 will be worth moving up.

Robert

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:55 PM

Nice review. From someone who spends a large part of their time making graphs of data, please allow me to make a suggestion. On each of those graphs, you need to indicate is more, or less, better. It's not terribly clear from the graphs alone that a high number in the "Graphics index" test is good or bad. Same goes for several of the others.

Thanks, I'll pass that feedback along to the Spb guys!

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:56 PM

My only question is "What processor (PXA-250 or -255) were the Axim benchmarks above taken from?

1st generation PXA250 - I should have made a note of that. We'll update the Spb root file to indicate that.

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 05:56 PM

Thanks, I'll pass that feedback along to the Spb guys!
Speaking of the SPB guys any idea when Pocket Plus will be working with my new 2215?

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 05:59 PM

Interested to see 'real life' benchmarks though. I assume there must be something wrong with your benchmarking software, so it should be best if some benchmarks were done using PocketMVP (Divx) and a NES or SNES emulator of some sort.

I wouldn't assume that - we've been ripping our benchmark apart trying to find why the 2215 is slow at certain tasks, and it looks like it just is.

Yes, we're going to try to add MPEG playback test to a future version of Spb Benchmark. The problem with a SNES emulator is a) it's illegal, b) it might not report back a number that we need. For instance, WMP doesn't report video frame rates, so we can't use it as a benchmark for performance, which sucks. :evil:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:03 PM

Try running my gapiinfo program on the 2215. It sounds like it's got the same problem as the 38XX (offscreen buffer). This can be fixed with a simple workaround in software to restore full speed GAPI access. If "GXIsDisplayDRAMBuffer()" returns a TRUE (1), then this device has the same problem as the 38xx and will need every app which uses GAPI to hardcode the true video address.

I ran it, and the results were:

Display is DRAM buffer = 0

So what does that mean? It's a different issue?

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:05 PM

Does the included cradle allow you to charge a spare battery and the unit? HP has an accessory cradle that will, can't find any information about the included one.

No, it doesn't allow you to charge a second battery. But, given the shape and size of the battery the 2215 uses, I don't know if they could/would do that - it's nothing like the Dell battery which can slip into the cradle and lock in nicely.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:07 PM

Steve's review over at Brighthand is far more gushing with praise than yours. Cheers to you, Jason for showing some restraint and balance.

Well, I still love the device and would use it over an Axim any day - don't underestimate the importance of size and a real SDIO slot, neither of which the Dell has.

Nikhil

06-24-2003, 06:08 PM

The iPAQ 22xx cradle DOES allow for the charging of a second battery...there's a little 'cave' behind the slot where the unit sits...pop an extra battery in right there.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:09 PM

I have a question about benchmarks though. Are comparisons between different operating systems valid?

They're valid insofar as it concerns the consumer who is looking at buying a device and wants the fastest device. If I had other Windows Mobile 2003 devices here (specifically, an Axim) I certainly would have used them instead. Once I get more 2003 devices, expect a whole new round of benchmarks. In fact, expect all sorts of crazy benchmarks and analysis - I LOVE BENCHMARKS!!! :mrgreen:

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 06:12 PM

The iPAQ 22xx cradle DOES allow for the charging of a second battery...there's a little 'cave' behind the slot where the unit sits...pop an extra battery in right there.
I second that Nikhil!!! It does to have slot for the second battery, and a seperate LED for battery charging status on the front right of the cradle (as you look at straight on)...!!!

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:12 PM

I have one question... Does SPB Full Screen Keyboard run on it? Very curious about PPC2003 compatibility of this product. Thanks.

Just installed the 2.0 beta, and it worked like a charm.

Talon

06-24-2003, 06:14 PM

Can I ask where the 200MHz bus came from? I can't see any mention of it in the HP specs page you linked to and the intel data sheet for the 255 clearly stated the SDRAM interface has a maximum speed of 100MHz.

Just for reference the PXA255 is really just the RevC version of the PXA250. They changed the name because the 250 had such a bad reputation. The 255 is slightly faster and uses significantly less power.
Unfortunatly the new 610/620 Xscales (the ones with built in FLASH) that are just starting to get used in some PDAs use the 250 not the 255 design.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:14 PM

...but what exactly is USB charging?

It means that you don't need to have the AC adaptor connected to charge the device - it will charge by taking power from the USB connection. It's a great feature for people who travel.

Not a big deal that's it missing though, I'll just get one of these:
http://www.boxwave.com/

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:15 PM

It's disappointing to see the current HP flagship 5455 sucking big time in all your tests. Do you think the new OS will improve the 5xxx line significantly? Well, I look forward to any thoughts you might have.

Once I get my hands on the upgrade to 2003, I'll let you know. :D

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:18 PM

Let's face it - they could have hit a home run if they included built in wifi. Why they left it out in place of Bluetooth is just ridiculous.

WiFi is a power-sucking vortex from which there is no escape...a wee 900mAH battery wouldn't last very long with WiFi. HP made a decision that the people buying this device would want Bluetooth more than WiFi, and I think that's a good bet. If you want both Bluetooth and WiFi, you go for their flagship device. Besides, adding both wireless technologies gets expensive, and they had to keep the cost down on this device.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:19 PM

I'm not sure if this was pointed out yet, but the MediaQ is responsible for slowdowns. Not as bad as the Imageon, but still, it leaves it's mark.

Interesting. Why do you say that? Do you have any further information on this? I thought graphics co-processors were supposed to make things BETTER? :roll:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:21 PM

23 second reboot time?!?! WTF! Does PPC2003 have any sort of method to kill a process so you don't have to do a complete reset when something bombs?...Also, how does the 1910 at 300 MHz compare?

1) Sure - the normal START > SETTINGS > MEMORY > END PROGRAM route. I haven't had anything lock up or go funky on me yet with this, so the memory management has definitely been improved.

2) I didn't test that combo. Expect a lot more benchmarks in the coming weeks...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:24 PM

Too bad though that the D-pad seems too sensitive , how can one read ebooks in a comfortable matter without a Jog Dial and without a usefull D-pad ?
Actually, I had this problem on my original 3650 -- slowing down the repeat rate easily solves this problem. If I had seen the review I'd have suggested it to Jason. No biggie. :)

Ah yes, I seem to have forgotten about that. :oops: Problem solved!

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:28 PM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!

Interesting - my eyes are very sensitive to refresh rates (it drives me insane when I see a CRT monitor set to 60Hz and the user doesn't see it), and I don't see anything like what you're describing on my 2215. It looks every bit as solid as the 5450 next to it. My wife has the 1910, so I can't compare that yet. ;-)

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:30 PM

The two holes on the back are for a flip cover that is on the way.... Iguess we will see just how well thought out it was...this comes from a FAQ on HP's site .... I am looking for the link as I write...

Ah, interesting. Still, it didn't come with one in the box - there are many after-market solutions (cases, covers, etc.), but what matters is what you get in the box.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:32 PM

Jason - does this come with Jeode?

Not in ROM. It might be on the CD, but I honestly never really look at those. I know, it's a failing I have as a reviewer... :wink:

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:33 PM

I'll be publishing some tests later this week that compare an iPAQ 3650 with 2000, 2002, and 2003 beta on it - that will give you a good idea of how much difference the OS makes on exactly the same hardware.
Stop the press you had 2003 on a 3650...???

Yup. There are some benefits to being an MVP. Stay tuned...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:34 PM

You mentioned that there were no headset or keyboard BT profiles on the 2215. Is this something that HP could add in a ROM update? Have they been known to add functionality like this in the past post-release?

It's something they could add, sure, but I don't know that they will - they've had a long time to add it...ROM updates are normally about bug fixes, but some improvements always creep in there somehow. :-)

Talon

06-24-2003, 06:34 PM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!

Interesting - my eyes are very sensitive to refresh rates (it drives me insane when I see a CRT monitor set to 60Hz and the user doesn't see it), and I don't see anything like what you're describing on my 2215. It looks every bit as solid as the 5450 next to it. My wife has the 1910, so I can't compare that yet. ;-)

This will vary unit to unit. All TFT type displays have a small adjustment that has to be made once the unit is assembled in order to eliminate the wave patterns. If you open a unit up (not that I would recomend doing so) you will see a small variable resistor used to make this change.
Changing the lighting conditions (sunlight vs. bults vs. tubes) will sometimes have an effect. Also the effect is normaly more noticable when the unit is hot (around 40-50C, but don't turn the backlight on full at this temp, it's not good for the LEDs)

Fzara

06-24-2003, 06:39 PM

All I can tell from the benchmarks is that the person from Microsoft who said that the Pocket PC OS will not be optimized for Xscale processors was lying.

Sorry, my friend, there was NO OPTIMIZATIONS for XScale.

The reason the device is faster is because it is using the PXA255 processor, which has a 200mhz frontside bus... twice as fast as the PXA250 chips. The poor performance was an Intel PXA250 issue, as all the other ARM based processors do not have these performance issues.

Bill

Alright. I seem to have been misinformed by many forum posts and misconceptions that Xscale seemed to have been optimized for PPC2k3. I guess I was wrong.

However, comparing the PXA255 and the PXA250 processors, I noticed from knowledgeable sources that there have been no speed increases if one were to use the processor, however, small speed increases have been shown on the benchmarks. This was done with the Axim, using the PXA250 and the 255.

Jason, one thing you should try to do is to contact Anton Tomav within the next couple days, for a small trial version of Pocket Hack Master. There has been no new news for his program being changed for Pocket PC 2003, so i'm assuming he is not working one an updated version.

It would be very interesting to see how PHM could impact the speeds of the 2215, overclocked to either 472 or 492 Mhz.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:43 PM

The iPAQ 22xx cradle DOES allow for the charging of a second battery...there's a little 'cave' behind the slot where the unit sits...pop an extra battery in right there.

Aha - interesting! Good to know!

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:44 PM

Can I ask where the 200MHz bus came from? I can't see any mention of it in the HP specs page you linked to and the intel data sheet for the 255 clearly stated the SDRAM interface has a maximum speed of 100MHz.

I was under the impression that all new PXA255s used the 200Mhz bus - I've emailed HP for clarification on this issue and I'll amend my review if I was incorrect.

UPDATE: Ok, I just heard back from my contact at HP. It's a 100Mhz bus - which makes the speed I'm seeing all the more impressive. Interesting...

Talon

06-24-2003, 06:45 PM

However, comparing the PXA255 and the PXA250 processors, I noticed from knowledgeable sources that there have been no speed increases if one were to use the processor, however, small speed increases have been shown on the benchmarks. This was done with the Axim, using the PXA250 and the 255.

Much as I distrust Intels own benchmarks and marketing the PXA255 is faster than the 250. The charts I've seen from intel themselves did show a performance boost and I couldn't see any holes in their method for the comparison.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

06-24-2003, 06:47 PM

Let's face it - they could have hit a home run if they included built in wifi. Why they left it out in place of Bluetooth is just ridiculous. So we're forced to give up our SD slot for 802.11, and have some big ugly antenna sticking out the side of the unit. No thanks!
Well first of all the SD slot doesn't stick out of the side, it's top-loading. Second, you also have a CF slot as well. Third, just my preference, but I'd prefer to avoid the complications that came with the 54xx (very unstable device). My experience has been that the more technology you cram into the device, the more complex and easily prone to instability it becomes.
Bluetooth has some advantages, but I do not own a single bluetooth device (don't plan to either). I use 802.11 most of my waking hours.. It's just a darn shame.
I guess this varies from person to person. I bought a 2215 last night, but wouldn't have touched it if it had WiFi and no BT. For me, I travel constantly and having BT means I can get connected from anywhere where there is a GPRS signal. WiFi hotspots are much harder to find. Plus I can rely on BT without incurring a heavy battery penalty.

nishka

06-24-2003, 06:49 PM

WiFi is a power-sucking vortex from which there is no escape...a wee 900mAH battery wouldn't last very long with WiFi. HP made a decision that the people buying this device would want Bluetooth more than WiFi, and I think that's a good bet. If you want both Bluetooth and WiFi, you go for their flagship device. Besides, adding both wireless technologies gets expensive, and they had to keep the cost down on this device.
I love you and your site Jason, but I just don't buy this argument. I can't possibly imagine there being more demand for bluetooth over 802.11. I don't want bluetooth, will never use bluetooth, but want my integrated wireless :). They can easily integrate an 'off' switch into the OS to turn off the radio in non-wifi areas.

nishka

06-24-2003, 06:52 PM

Well first of all the SD slot doesn't stick out of the side, it's top-loading. Second, you also have a CF slot as well. Third, just my preference, but I'd prefer to avoid the complications that came with the 54xx (very unstable device). My experience has been that the more technology you cram into the device, the more complex and easily prone to instability it becomes.

Now we're talking semantics :). Side, top, regardless there's going to be some ugly thing sticking out the side of my device.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

06-24-2003, 06:52 PM

BTW Jason... fantastic review!!

Quick question for you. Do you notice any uneven lighting patterns on the bottom of your screen (most noticeable against a white backdrop like the startup screen)?

I'm noticing this on mine and will try to exchange if this is not normal.

Talon

06-24-2003, 06:52 PM

I was under the impression that all new PXA255s used the 200Mhz bus - I've emailed HP for clarification on this issue and I'll amend my review if I was incorrect.

UPDATE: Ok, I just heard back from my contact at HP. It's a 100Mhz bus - which makes the speed I'm seeing all the more impressive. Interesting...

I've just checked the Xscale data more closely. The 255 still has a 100MHz external bus but the internal bus has gone up to 200MHz. So tasks that make good use of the processors internal caches (32k instruction, 32k data) will see a performance boost.

Oh and changing topic. The USB active sync improvment is probably due to the core OS. I've got the same device running CE3 (which PPC2002 is based on) and CE4 (which 2003 is based on) and CE4 has a huge jump in the USB data transfer rate.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 06:52 PM

WiFi is a power-sucking vortex from which there is no escape...a wee 900mAH battery wouldn't last very long with WiFi. HP made a decision that the people buying this device would want Bluetooth more than WiFi, and I think that's a good bet. If you want both Bluetooth and WiFi, you go for their flagship device. Besides, adding both wireless technologies gets expensive, and they had to keep the cost down on this device.
I love you and your site Jason, but I just don't buy this argument. I can't possibly imagine there being more demand for bluetooth over 802.11. I don't want bluetooth, will never use bluetooth, but want my integrated wireless :). They can easily integrate an 'off' switch into the OS to turn off the radio in non-wifi areas.

Fair enough. As always, you vote with your wallet - don't let me see you with a 2215 then! :wink:

nishka

06-24-2003, 06:59 PM

Fair enough. As always, you vote with your wallet - don't let me see you with a 2215 then!

Indeed. :). Does anyone know if there will be any new sub $400 devices with built in 802.11 coming out anytime soon with roughly the same form factor as the new Ipaqs? [/quote]

Deslock

06-24-2003, 07:14 PM

Does PPC2003 have any sort of method to kill a process so you don't have to do a complete reset when something bombs?

1) Sure - the normal START > SETTINGS > MEMORY > END PROGRAM route. I haven't had anything lock up or go funky on me yet with this, so the memory management has definitely been improved.

Actually my problem is more specific... sometimes a program freezes and PPC stops responding to screen taps (tapping on the Start Menu bar doesn't do anything, even though that's not part of the program). With some programs, like PocketMVP, the hardware buttons don't do anything either (because PocketMVP seems to hijack them even if you don't assign them). Only the power button works, so I can toggle my HP1910 off and on, but can't do anything else with it.

I resort to a soft reset when that happens. It's quite irritating, because my 1910 takes 15 seconds to reboot (the 1910 takes only a few seconds with nothing installed, but 15 seconds with Turbo Tray, Spacemaker, etc installed). If the 2210 takes 23 seconds without anything installed, does that mean it takes 30+ seconds loaded?

I was thinking there could be an alternative to soft reset if there was a way to bring up the process list (like <ctrl><alt><del> on a PC). It'd have to work even if an application remaps your hardware buttons, which is tricky, but possible. For example, holding the power button down to bring up the process list instead of toggling backlight could do the trick... is there a way to do this?

Mark Johnson

06-24-2003, 07:17 PM

Hey Jason can you straighten me out on the availability of the Stowaway XT keyboard for the HP 2215? Was your review of a prototype or has it been released? I think the 2215 and XT combination would be perfect for me, although I'm pretty happy with my 1910.

Do you know if the XT will work on both the 2215 and the 1910? Or on the 1940?

Deslock

06-24-2003, 07:22 PM

WiFi is a power-sucking vortex from which there is no escape...a wee 900mAH battery wouldn't last very long with WiFi. HP made a decision that the people buying this device would want Bluetooth more than WiFi, and I think that's a good bet. If you want both Bluetooth and WiFi, you go for their flagship device. Besides, adding both wireless technologies gets expensive, and they had to keep the cost down on this device.
I love you and your site Jason, but I just don't buy this argument. I can't possibly imagine there being more demand for bluetooth over 802.11. I don't want bluetooth, will never use bluetooth, but want my integrated wireless :). They can easily integrate an 'off' switch into the OS to turn off the radio in non-wifi areas.
Bluetooth PDA + bluetooth cell phone = powerful combination (many bitched about the Tungsten C's lack of bluetooth for this reason). That said, I agree that wifi in this device would be more popular than bluetooth, assuming the price, size, weight, and battery life remained the same. But all of those attributes would be changed for the worse with the inclusion of wifi.

So, I'm with Jason on this one.

cmorris

06-24-2003, 07:35 PM

Don't forget that HP also wants to sell their 55xx series. Sticking WiFi into the 22xx would make the product differentiation very slim indeed.

Anyhow I would have no problem sticking in a CF WiFi card - they are cheap anyhow.

Dermot81

06-24-2003, 07:41 PM

Ok so from what I can gather from reading the posts,

The internal cache bus runs at 200 mhz
The external cache bus runs at 100 mhz

My question is, what speed is the RAM running at then? 200 or 100?

Next, as great as your review was Jason, I want to see real world benchmarks not synthetic ones :) Or at least benchmarks that I can compare to on my ipaq 3950, like how long it takes to load the PPC Thoughts website in IE, or how network performance rates in refreshing a mapped directory.

Also, does the 1910 and 3950 have the same screen? I have the 3950 and I really love my screen. My suitemates have Dells and their screens' look really washed out and dark. Looking at the those pictures in the review, I'm really disappointed in how washed out the 2210 image looks :( I can live with the low battery life, but I need a good screen to watch my divxs on.

entropy1980

06-24-2003, 07:45 PM

Ok so from what I can gather from reading the posts,

The internal cache bus runs at 200 mhz
The external cache bus runs at 100 mhz

My question is, what speed is the RAM running at then? 200 or 100?

Next, as great as your review was Jason, I want to see real world benchmarks not synthetic ones :) Or at least benchmarks that I can compare to on my ipaq 3950, like how long it takes to load the PPC Thoughts website in IE, or how network performance rates in refreshing a mapped directory.

Also, does the 1910 and 3950 have the same screen? I have the 3950 and I really love my screen. My suitemates have Dells and their screens' look really washed out and dark. Looking at the those pictures in the review, I'm really disappointed in how washed out the 2210 image looks :( I can live with the low battery life, but I need a good screen to watch my divxs on.
I can tell you a couple of real world things... first side by side the 2215's screen is better than the axim and as good as the 3950's (IMHO), not quite as good as the 1910's. IE is soooo much faster it's not even in the same category as the old browser, no joke no exageration! As far as real world goes everything is pretty quick, used to only get a few fps using SNES emulators now getting 25+ fps in Donkey Kong Country and Chrono Trigger...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 08:16 PM

For example, holding the power button down to bring up the process list instead of toggling backlight could do the trick... is there a way to do this?

Yeah, if you Google around a bit you'll find process killers for the Pocket PC, but I recommend just doing a soft reset. Kill the wrong process, and you could damage your data...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 08:26 PM

My question is, what speed is the RAM running at then? 200 or 100?...Next, as great as your review was Jason, I want to see real world benchmarks not synthetic ones :) Or at least benchmarks that I can compare to on my ipaq 3950, like how long it takes to load the PPC Thoughts website in IE, or how network performance rates in refreshing a mapped directory....Also, does the 1910 and 3950 have the same screen?

1) The SDRAM on the 2215 runs at 100Mhz

2) These are not "synthetic" benchmarks (well, the CPU MFLOP test is) - when you run Spb Benchmark you can actually watch it open up Pocket Word, load a file, then shut it down. Watch it load File Explorer with a directory of 2000 files, etc. These are real world tests, I can promise you that. And you CAN see how it compares to your 3950 - see the 3900 series in the screen shots? That's your device. :-) In terms of loading PPCT, Spb benchmark loads a big HTML file and calculates how fast it loads in KB/s - that's a real-world test that will apply to ANY page. We were going to use a sample PPCT page, but that would be a little biased, don't you think? In terms of network performance on a mapped directory, that's not a test we could have everyone do - they would need to have WiFi on the device, they would need to have network file sharing set up, etc. Remember all the tests we do in Spb Benchmark need to function on all of the devices (although there are battery tests specific to Bluetooth and WiFi devices).

3) It's a different screen (it's 3.5" not 3.8") - the 1910 has a better screen IMO. The screen on the 2215 actually looks quite good - look at the photo I published with the three turned on and side-by-side. That will give you a better idea of the screen (but even that photo isn't ideal because the Flash hit the 2215 square on). You really need to see the 2215 screen - it's quite good.

Talon

06-24-2003, 08:31 PM

Ok so from what I can gather from reading the posts,

The internal cache bus runs at 200 mhz
The external cache bus runs at 100 mhz

My question is, what speed is the RAM running at then? 200 or 100?

OK first a minor correction. There are no such things as cache busses. Just busses that may or may not connect to the cache.

The internal bus connects the processor to the cache, memory controller, USB controller and all the other bits built into the processor. This runs at 1/2 CPU speed so 200MHz on a 400MHz XScale PXA255.

Everything outside the processor (SDRAM, Flash, CF card etc...) are on the external bus. This doesn't have a fixed speed. It runs at whatever speed the part it's talking to can cope with. So when it's talking to the Flash or the CF card it will run a lot slower than when it's talking to the SDRAM.

The fastest speed SDRAM that the XScale supports is 100MHz so that's what everyone uses. It supports up to 256MBytes of SDRAM but anything over 64MBytes gets very messy to actually connect up.

Also, does the 1910 and 3950 have the same screen? I have the 3950 and I really love my screen. My suitemates have Dells and their screens' look really washed out and dark.
I don't know about the new iPaq but the Dell uses the 3.5" Sharp HR-TFT display.

Unreal32

06-24-2003, 08:35 PM

...but what exactly is USB charging?

It means that you don't need to have the AC adaptor connected to charge the device - it will charge by taking power from the USB connection. It's a great feature for people who travel.

Not a big deal that's it missing though, I'll just get one of these:
http://www.boxwave.com/

I was going to say... can't ANY PDA that connects through USB be charged via USB, given the right cable? I've been doing it with mine since my 3650.

Of course, now I use a Tungsten C... and just stick around here for the fun of it.

Unreal32

06-24-2003, 08:38 PM

23 seconds reboot time is intolerable!

I can see it now...

Them: "What's his phone number?"
Me: "Oh crap, hang on... PPC froze up."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "Give me a second to reboot."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "20 more seconds now..."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "Almost there..."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "OK! Now the PPC is back. Let me load up Pocket Informant."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "OK, now what was I looking up again???"

:roll:

rmasinag

06-24-2003, 09:13 PM

I was going to say... can't ANY PDA that connects through USB be charged via USB, given the right cable? I've been doing it with mine since my 3650.

Is there a way to charge a 1910, possibly 1940 through USB?

That would be neat

sorry...a lil off topic 8)

Godsongz

06-24-2003, 09:20 PM

Only 1 cheap stylus included eh? Is it a compatible size with the styli from any other iPaqs? I bought an "iPaq Antenna" stylus for my 3835 which is very nice except for the fact that it slides out a little too easily.

Just ordered a 2210 from Mobile Planet BTW, the 3835 just became my wife's PPC :wink:

ctmagnus

06-24-2003, 09:24 PM

[If we had finished our Pocket PC Thoughts Zen Award logo, this is where we'd put it. Until then, just imagine a cool-looking logo based around the ying-yang concept (http://www.dance-centre.com/images/ying%20yang.gif)]

If you haven't already considered it, might I suggest two PPC-looking devices morphing into each other?

Hyperluminal

06-24-2003, 09:40 PM

BTW Jason... fantastic review!!

Quick question for you. Do you notice any uneven lighting patterns on the bottom of your screen (most noticeable against a white backdrop like the startup screen)?

I'm noticing this on mine and will try to exchange if this is not normal.
On my 2215, it's visible, but very faint. You can kind of make it out when doing a soft reset, but on mine it's almost impossible to notice anywhere else...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 09:46 PM

Only 1 cheap stylus included eh? Is it a compatible size with the styli from any other iPaqs?

It's a totally new type of stylus.

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 09:47 PM

BTW Jason... fantastic review!!

Quick question for you. Do you notice any uneven lighting patterns on the bottom of your screen (most noticeable against a white backdrop like the startup screen)?

I'm noticing this on mine and will try to exchange if this is not normal.
On my 2215, it's visible, but very faint. You can kind of make it out when doing a soft reset, but on mine it's almost impossible to notice anywhere else...

I looked, but I don't see anything....then again, I'm a little tired still. :roll:

ppcinfo

06-24-2003, 09:54 PM

I stopped by Fry's Electronics today to check out the iPAQ 2215, and I found it to be a fast device. I do like the improvements that were made to the 2003 OS (not too drastic of a change). I currently have an iPAQ 1910, and the 2215 is noticably thicker than my device. So much so, that I'm going to wait for the 1945. I can live without the CF card slot, so getting a 1945 with the 2003 OS and bluetooth should work for me.

Note: Fry's already had a sticker with "iPAQ 1945" on their store shelf, so it may not be too long before these units are available.

ppcinfo

Hyperluminal

06-24-2003, 10:01 PM

On my 2215, it's visible, but very faint. You can kind of make it out when doing a soft reset, but on mine it's almost impossible to notice anywhere else...

I looked, but I don't see anything....then again, I'm a little tired still. :roll:
Tired? I know the feeling... ;)

Make your 2215's screen completely white (an easy way being to soft reset it) and look at the very bottom, within 1 cm of the end. There should be faint dark to light banding...

Jason Dunn

06-24-2003, 10:03 PM

Make your 2215's screen completely white (an easy way being to soft reset it) and look at the very bottom, within 1 cm of the end. There should be faint dark to light banding...

Ok, it's there, but it's so faint you have to REALLY look hard to see it...not something I'd be concerned about personally.

Mark Johnson

06-24-2003, 10:08 PM

Hey Jason!

I'm wondering about the Stowaway XT for the 2215 you show in you "Mobile Office Bliss" photo. Has it been released or do you have a prototype?

Iznot Gold

06-24-2003, 10:10 PM

I note that Expansys UK is now offering the 2210 at £364.25, delivery in 5 days.

Regards
David

gamboagarcia

06-24-2003, 10:38 PM

Jason, This are my questions:

You said: "NO USB charging" Does it means that my current Belkin iPaq 3900 USB/Car lighter sync/charger doesn't work with it?

Does my new ST keyboad work with it?

Zensbikeshop

06-24-2003, 11:02 PM

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them. :mrgreen:

What exactly does the way the English spell words in the English language say about them (us)?

It's called English not American.

Zensbikeshop

06-24-2003, 11:13 PM

WiFi is a power-sucking vortex from which there is no escape...a wee 900mAH battery wouldn't last very long with WiFi. HP made a decision that the people buying this device would want Bluetooth more than WiFi, and I think that's a good bet. If you want both Bluetooth and WiFi, you go for their flagship device. Besides, adding both wireless technologies gets expensive, and they had to keep the cost down on this device.
I love you and your site Jason, but I just don't buy this argument. I can't possibly imagine there being more demand for bluetooth over 802.11. I don't want bluetooth, will never use bluetooth, but want my integrated wireless :). They can easily integrate an 'off' switch into the OS to turn off the radio in non-wifi areas.

Of course you can't imagine it because you say you don't want Bluetooth.

I have no use for WiFi as yet but Bluetooth enables me to connect to the web and surf or email using GPRS on my mobile phone, connect to my desktop PC to sync or transfer files, connect to ANY other Bluetooth device for similar reasons and more.

Ultimately of course Bluetooth and WiFi are two different technologies with different uses. Bluetooth is a PAN technology and WiFi is a LAN technology.

Of course with Bluetooth and a suitable mobile phone you have WAN too.

Enderet

06-25-2003, 12:00 AM

Interested to see 'real life' benchmarks though. I assume there must be something wrong with your benchmarking software, so it should be best if some benchmarks were done using PocketMVP (Divx) and a NES or SNES emulator of some sort.

I wouldn't assume that - we've been ripping our benchmark apart trying to find why the 2215 is slow at certain tasks, and it looks like it just is.

Yes, we're going to try to add MPEG playback test to a future version of Spb Benchmark. The problem with a SNES emulator is a) it's illegal, b) it might not report back a number that we need. For instance, WMP doesn't report video frame rates, so we can't use it as a benchmark for performance, which sucks. :evil:

It is only illegal if you dont own the game you are trying...and besides that theres the time limit or something like that :?

biggus

06-25-2003, 12:33 AM

Load times:
Ok, I did my own measuring, 5 consecutive test with each setting.

Hard reset vanilla 2215, no plugins or apps loaded, no SD, no CF: 19 seconds until the today screen comes up.
Fully configured device, tdLaunch today plugin w/ 8 shortcuts, 2 uncompleted tasks, 2 unread e-mails, 2 upcoming appointments, 32MB SD card, 128MB CF Card: 19 seconds.

maximus

06-25-2003, 01:59 AM

Am I correct to assume that the numbers for axim X5 is with the PPC2002 version ? Or was it an axim X5 with PPC2003 installed ?

Jason Dunn

06-25-2003, 05:07 AM

I'm wondering about the Stowaway XT for the 2215 you show in you "Mobile Office Bliss" photo. Has it been released or do you have a prototype?

AFAIK, it's due to be released at the end of this month, which is coming up pretty quick. :-)

Jason Dunn

06-25-2003, 05:08 AM

You said: "NO USB charging" Does it means that my current Belkin iPaq 3900 USB/Car lighter sync/charger doesn't work with it? Does my new ST keyboad work with it?

Your USB charge cable will work fine - it just means that you need that special cable, not the one in the box - that was the benefit that the HP 5450 offered.

What's an ST keyboard?

Jason Dunn

06-25-2003, 05:10 AM

...The problem with a SNES emulator is a) it's illegal, b) it might not report back a number that we need....

It is only illegal if you dont own the game you are trying...and besides that theres the time limit or something like that :?[/quote]

Uh, how many people are really going to have old cartridges lying around for some random game that we'd include in the benchmark utility? Sorry, but it's not a realistic solution from any point of view. Get over it, time to move on. :grumble:

Jason Dunn

06-25-2003, 05:11 AM

Am I correct to assume that the numbers for axim X5 is with the PPC2002 version ? Or was it an axim X5 with PPC2003 installed ?

Correct. If you look at all the benchmark graphics, you can see it says Dell Axim X5 (2002, 400Mhz).

jrecampbell

06-25-2003, 10:36 AM

[quote]
[Bluetooth enables me to connect to the web and surf or email using GPRS on my mobile phone, connect to my desktop PC to sync or transfer files, connect to ANY other Bluetooth device for similar reasons and more.]

Is there any column or post that explains what you can do with Bluetooth? How fast is BT syncing, what is the bandwidth of BT? I want to be converted as my brother has a Wi-Fi PPC and the battery literally disappears when he turns it on. How wide can my PAN be?

BT profiles - can you not just create a partnership with a new device like a headset or do they really have to be predefined by HP (earlier ROM update post)? Doesn't that reduce the flexibility of BT?

Questions, questions... :?

theone3

06-25-2003, 10:54 AM

One question though-why did the 1910 beat out all the other PPC's in terms of "Graphic Index"?

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them. :mrgreen:
Uh.. and the rest of the world :wink: Says something about the US if you ask me. 8O

Newsboy

06-25-2003, 11:47 AM

I note that Expansys UK is now offering the 2210 at £364.25, delivery in 5 days.

Regards
David

If that's true, then :shocked!: ! Converts to $607.41 US Dollars!!!! Good gawd.

Steven Cedrone

06-25-2003, 12:26 PM

Please drop the whole "colour/color" debate...

Thanks,

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

Dazbot

06-25-2003, 12:52 PM

Iznot Gold wrote:
Newsboy wrote:
I note that Expansys UK is now offering the 2210 at £364.25, delivery in 5 days.

Regards
David

If that's true, then :shocked!: ! Converts to $607.41 US Dollars!!!! Good gawd.

If you look on the USA version of Expansys its $497.55 US Dollars

Pony99CA

06-25-2003, 01:24 PM

You mentioned that there were no headset or keyboard BT profiles on the 2215. Is this something that HP could add in a ROM update? Have they been known to add functionality like this in the past post-release?
It's something they could add, sure, but I don't know that they will - they've had a long time to add it...ROM updates are normally about bug fixes, but some improvements always creep in there somehow. :-)
Did HP ever ship their promised headset profile update for the 5450? I certainly don't recall hearing about it.

Steve

Jason Dunn

06-25-2003, 02:44 PM

Is there any column or post that explains what you can do with Bluetooth? How fast is BT syncing, what is the bandwidth of BT? I want to be converted as my brother has a Wi-Fi PPC and the battery literally disappears when he turns it on. How wide can my PAN be? BT profiles - can you not just create a partnership with a new device like a headset or do they really have to be predefined by HP (earlier ROM update post)? Doesn't that reduce the flexibility of BT?

1) Google Bluetooth and you'll find lots of info - but basically it's a cable replacement technology

2) Bluetooth speed is a maximum of 768 Kbps, which realistically means about 50 KB/s of speed once you factor in the overhead and whatnot.

3) Either 10 metres or 30 metres, depending on whether it's a Class A or Class B device

4) BT profiles are hard-coded into each device. Yes, it drastically reduces the flexibility of Bluetooth, which is one of my primary complaints with it

Hope that helps!

Ed Hansberry

06-25-2003, 02:50 PM

[2) Bluetooth speed is a maximum of 768 Kbps, which realistically means about 50 KB/s of speed once you factor in the overhead and whatnot.
You mean 500 don't you? Or is the 50KB/s taking into account the 2 hrs you mess around trying to get the devices to see each other? :rotfl:

Pony99CA

06-25-2003, 03:00 PM

[2) Bluetooth speed is a maximum of 768 Kbps, which realistically means about 50 KB/s of speed once you factor in the overhead and whatnot.
You mean 500 don't you?
No, he switched units from bits to bytes -- 50 KB/s = 400 kbps.

Steve

Zensbikeshop

06-25-2003, 04:26 PM

[2) Bluetooth speed is a maximum of 768 Kbps, which realistically means about 50 KB/s of speed once you factor in the overhead and whatnot.
You mean 500 don't you? Or is the 50KB/s taking into account the 2 hrs you mess around trying to get the devices to see each other? :rotfl:

Maybe Bluetooth just doesn't work in the USA :wink: I only see Americans complain about it.

Never had any problems with pairing myself...

:D

gamboagarcia

06-25-2003, 06:00 PM

What's an ST keyboard?

Sorry, my fault. :oops: I meant XT (stowaway xt) keyboard? (wich I already ordered :wink: )

ricoks

06-25-2003, 06:44 PM

With regards to the Bluetooth in the 2215 (just picked one up btw (first ppc) and love it), I am trying to connect to my pc to active snc, and browse the web. This is the only device that would connect to it (no use for my cell to connect to my pc). My question is, can I just use a dongle for it. I picked up a d-link (small) and can get them to pair/see eachother, but not to surf the web. Do I need an AP, or am I just doing something wrong with the pairing??? :oops:
I could be just messing it up. I want to surf the web on my 2215, but still allow the pc to as well (connection sharing/bridging somehow??)
any ideas????

btw, paired to my 6310i, this is awesome to surf around town. Now, if only ATT would follow suit with T-Mobile and offer unlimited GPRS. They only have a corp plan that is $99 now. OUCH 8O :twisted:

Thanks
Ryan

alex22

06-25-2003, 07:18 PM

You said: "NO USB charging" Does it means that my current Belkin iPaq 3900 USB/Car lighter sync/charger doesn't work with it? Does my new ST keyboad work with it?

Your USB charge cable will work fine - it just means that you need that special cable, not the one in the box - that was the benefit that the HP 5450 offered.

Its nice to know I can use my old iPaq USB sync/charge cable with 2215 :)

Ed Hansberry

06-25-2003, 10:31 PM

Anyone know which WriteShield from www.pocketpctechs.com fits the 2215? :helpme: They haven't updated their compatibility tables yet.

sgyee

06-25-2003, 11:49 PM

Anyone know which WriteShield from www.pocketpctechs.com fits the 2215? :helpme: They haven't updated their compatibility tables yet.

Try one from an iPAQ 1910. It seems to fit my 2215 fine.

Kurt Hunciker

06-26-2003, 12:45 AM

According to Brighthand's review,

"The h2210 comes with 64MB of RAM and 32MB of Flash ROM, of which 3.8MB is available as File Store. However, only 56MB of the RAM is available as main memory, and 10MB of that is reserved by the operating system." (Emphasis added.)

Is this typical of all Pocket PCs, or does this mean that the 2210 is using NAND ROM or some equivalent, and therefore must load the operating system into RAM :?:

(By way of comparison, after a soft reset, my Axim [with Pocket PC 2002] shows 5.26 MB of RAM in use by programs. I am running SPB Pocket Plus, Battery Pack and various other Today plug-ins -- which presumably accounts for the use of at least some of this memory.)

berzins

06-26-2003, 03:18 AM

The one thing I don't notice on HPs site is the mention of terminal services client. I've only ever owned the one PocketPC (Compaq 3850), so I am not sure if this piece of software normally ships with PocketPC or not. Can anyone tell me if the 22XX series does? If not, can you get it from Microsoft as a stand alone application?

I was looking at getting the new 55XX series but from looking at the differences (does not seem to be much that I would use besides WIFI, and with the new Socket SDIO card coming out...), the 22XX seems a more logical choice (built in CF, etc).

Comments?

Dave...

Ed Hansberry

06-26-2003, 04:30 AM

The one thing I don't notice on HPs site is the mention of terminal services client. I've only ever owned the one PocketPC (Compaq 3850), so I am not sure if this piece of software normally ships with PocketPC or not. Can anyone tell me if the 22XX series does? If not, can you get it from Microsoft as a stand alone application?
The 2215 has it. All Pocket PCs do in fact except for the old Pocket PC 2000 devices.

Also, the only things of consequence the 5500 series has the 2215 doesn't is built in WiFi, the thumb print reader and a large iPAQ File Store - 22+MB vs 3-4MB on the 2215. The 2215 has SDIO.

Will T Smith

06-26-2003, 04:32 AM

One question though-why did the 1910 beat out all the other PPC's in terms of "Graphic Index"?

As I said in the review, I'm not sure - with the MediaQ graphics co-processor, the 2215 should kick the stuffing out of the 1910 - but in a few tests, it doesn't. I can only theorize that the MediaQ is tuned for specific tasks (like MPEG playback) that Spb Benchmark isn't able to test. I'm going to try and get in touch with someone from MediaQ to get more info on this.

On a sidenote, you said "Colour me impressed", spelling "colour" with a 'u'. Oh well, only the English and the Canadians spell it that way-perhaps that tells the world something about them. :mrgreen:

I'm Canadian, so that's the way I spell. Duh. :lol:

So you should write 'abut' instead of 'about' reit? ;-)

Remember the days when we had brand spankin new Graphics accelerators for our PCs but very little software took advantage of it ... or our software supported Glide instead of OpenGL (DirectX was but a glint in M$ eye at the time).

I think we are in the same situation. If there aren't proper drivers written and deployed to take advantage of the MediaQ "acceleration" it doesn't make a bit of difference.

disconnected

06-26-2003, 04:40 AM

The other thing the 5550 has is a larger screen. For most people this doesn't seem to be an issue, but if you're not too young or your eyesight isn't great it's a big difference.

Janak Parekh

06-26-2003, 05:56 AM

Also, the only things of consequence the 5500 series has the 2215 doesn't is built in WiFi, the thumb print reader and a large iPAQ File Store - 22+MB vs 3-4MB on the 2215. The 2215 has SDIO.
Plus the additional RAM on the 5550, plus sleeve capability, plus the larger screen as Disconnected mentions (which is also useful, IMHO, for another reason -- it's easier to draw finely on a larger screen. :)), plus a bunch of minor things (side record/volume button, light sensor). But you do have to deal with the larger size.

--janak

Pony99CA

06-26-2003, 07:49 AM

Also, the only things of consequence the 5500 series has the 2215 doesn't is built in WiFi, the thumb print reader and a large iPAQ File Store - 22+MB vs 3-4MB on the 2215. The 2215 has SDIO.
Plus the additional RAM on the 5550, plus sleeve capability, plus the larger screen as Disconnected mentions (which is also useful, IMHO, for another reason -- it's easier to draw finely on a larger screen. :)), plus a bunch of minor things (side record/volume button, light sensor).

And a larger battery, although I don't know how the actual battery life compares.

Steve

Mexico

06-26-2003, 04:50 PM

I bought a 2215 yesterday. :multi: Everything installed OK except for Battery Pack 2003... :cry: and AVANTGO!!! :evil:
I spent probably 2 hours deleting profiles, reinstalling ActiveSync, and the only way I could make it work was by downloading and installing the friggin' software from the Avantgo site. Isn't Avantgo supposedly in ROM? Has anybody else had this same issue on a 2215 or any other device? Thanks!

Manuel

Mexico

06-26-2003, 04:55 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention: Microsoft Money for Pocket PC (either 2002 or 2003) does not work either... Does anybody know anything about this? Thanks!

M

stainlesssteele

06-26-2003, 05:56 PM

There is a 2210 available in Canada for $579.00. Is this the same as the 2215? The literature seems to indicate so (based on major features) but I don't want to buy one and be disappointed.

Jim

Gremmie

06-26-2003, 06:12 PM

Wasn't there a front page article about giving away your test demos away to readers?

Ed Hansberry

06-26-2003, 06:21 PM

I bought a 2215 yesterday. :multi: Everything installed OK except for Battery Pack 2003... :cry: and AVANTGO!!! :evil:
I spent probably 2 hours deleting profiles, reinstalling ActiveSync, and the only way I could make it work was by downloading and installing the friggin' software from the Avantgo site. Isn't Avantgo supposedly in ROM? Has anybody else had this same issue on a 2215 or any other device? Thanks!
You don't install Avantgo. When you dock with ActiveSync 3.7, simply enable Avango. It will copy over a DLL to your device and Avantgo will be enabled. Try uninstalling whatever you installed, soft resetting and then check the Avantgo box. If that doesn't work, you *might* have to hard reset ( :pukeface: ) to get it to work since any installer you got from www.avantgo.com is assuming Pocket PC 2002 and lower with Pocket IE 3 and could be causing massive conflicts.

mattchapin

06-26-2003, 08:56 PM

I've got a 2215 and I think the super-sensitive directional pad could maybe be a software issue...

When I adjust the repeat delay/speed for the up/down keys in the "buttons" settings, the delay/speed of repeat is affected, but only when I press _straight_ down on the d-pad. If I press off-center a little, so the force is diagonal, then it rapidly scrolls through several pages.

This happens for scrolling in all directions. Good aim: no unwanted repeats. Bad aim: scrolling at warp-speed.

I've confirmed this with another 2215 in the store.

If this is the experience others are having, I think HP should release a bug fix that addresses this "accidental diagonal press" issue.

Is this what you've experienced, other 2215 owners?

Other than that, fabulous handheld. Head-and-shoulders above my old Clie!

Matt

Jason Dunn

06-26-2003, 09:11 PM

Wasn't there a front page article about giving away your test demos away to readers?

Uh...no. 8O What colour is the sky in your world? :lol: (I give away some stuff, but Pocket PCs? Not quite...yet. We'll see!)

Jason Dunn

06-26-2003, 09:12 PM

There is a 2210 available in Canada for $579.00. Is this the same as the 2215? The literature seems to indicate so (based on major features) but I don't want to buy one and be disappointed.

Yeah - the 2210 is just the online version of the same product.

Ed Hansberry

06-26-2003, 09:19 PM

I've confirmed this with another 2215 in the store.

If this is the experience others are having, I think HP should release a bug fix that addresses this "accidental diagonal press" issue.
ditto. My one real 2215 regret. I hate this pad sometimes! It makes it very difficult to read ebooks if you aren't precise.

Mexico

06-26-2003, 11:31 PM

You don't install Avantgo. When you dock with ActiveSync 3.7, simply enable Avango. It will copy over a DLL to your device and Avantgo will be enabled. Try uninstalling whatever you installed, soft resetting and then check the Avantgo box. If that doesn't work, you *might* have to hard reset ( :pukeface: ) to get it to work since any installer you got from www.avantgo.com is assuming Pocket PC 2002 and lower with Pocket IE 3 and could be causing massive conflicts.
Thanks, Ed. That's what I originally tried, but it wouldn't work. I soft-reset, hard-reset, uninstalled ActiveSync and Avantgo, ran Norton WinDoctor, restarted computer, deleted Avantgo profile on 2215, reset, reinstalled ActiveSync, and still no luck... :evil:
At 4 in the morning I decided to give the downloaded software a try, and it worked... I might try something else today, if I grow the... nerves. After hard-resetting the 2215, uninstalling ActiveSync and AG, and reinstalling, what could it be? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

M

gpspassion

06-27-2003, 01:29 AM

any sense of what the difference between a 200mhz bus and a 100mhz bus would yield?
Has Spb Benchmark been run on a en e750 (it has a 200mhz bus)?

Jason Dunn

06-27-2003, 04:25 AM

any sense of what the difference between a 200mhz bus and a 100mhz bus would yield?
Has Spb Benchmark been run on a en e750 (it has a 200mhz bus)?

No, not yet, but in the coming days I'm sure we'll see all sorts of interesting test results coming in. :-)

gpspassion

06-27-2003, 11:18 AM

Thanks.
If it's anything like the move to 66mhz to 100mhz and then 133mhz (I'll stop here ;-) on PCs then it would probably make a difference, but the 2215 seems to be as fast as it needs to be ;-)

luiskim

06-29-2003, 04:27 AM

There is a 2210 available in Canada for $579.00. Is this the same as the 2215? The literature seems to indicate so (based on major features) but I don't want to buy one and be disappointed.

Yeah - the 2210 is just the online version of the same product.

In which website did you see the 2210 for 579.00

Luis...

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

06-29-2003, 04:44 AM

Make your 2215's screen completely white (an easy way being to soft reset it) and look at the very bottom, within 1 cm of the end. There should be faint dark to light banding...

Ok, it's there, but it's so faint you have to REALLY look hard to see it...not something I'd be concerned about personally.
Yeah, I'm not worried about it myself. I actually did exchange my device for another and it's still there, but it's much more faint than the first device I had.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

06-29-2003, 04:49 AM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!
Interesting - my eyes are very sensitive to refresh rates (it drives me insane when I see a CRT monitor set to 60Hz and the user doesn't see it), and I don't see anything like what you're describing on my 2215. It looks every bit as solid as the 5450 next to it. My wife has the 1910, so I can't compare that yet. ;-)
For the first time today, I finally noticed the "shimmering". It's not noticeable to me when indoors and using the sidelight. I noticed when I was outdoors and in direct sunlight, I could see the refreshing of the screen resulting in the strange "shimmer".

Not a deal-breaker for me as the screen is still quite beautiful indoors and still far better than the 3870 I had been using for over a year and a half!

cooders

06-30-2003, 04:58 AM

Anyone know how these speed tests compare to the new toshiba e755 with ppc2003 on them? Im about to get a new ppc and can get the e755 for only $50 more and it has wifi... Its using the same processor and stuff but it came out a long time ago w/ ppc2002, now that they are releasing it with ppc2003, im quirious how it compares to this and the other new HPs. Thanks.

Hyperluminal

06-30-2003, 05:46 PM

Yep, I have the same diagonal scroll problem with my 2215. Luckily, it doesn't happen very often, but it is annoying.
I don't know, could HP release a software update for this, or is it just a hardware characteristic of the d-pad?

luiskim

07-02-2003, 12:21 PM

here is an off topic question...
does anyone knows where can i get a Pocket PC emulator for my PC? I have a few PPC softwares that i wanna use but i sold my iPAQ3850 a while ago... and i really want to try the PPC2003 :D
I can't wait till i get a 2215.... :( i just want it so bad... does anyone knows a where i can get a good deal in Canada?

Luis...

Jason Dunn

07-02-2003, 09:54 PM

here is an off topic question...does anyone knows where can i get a Pocket PC emulator for my PC?

There's an emulator in the Pocket PC 2003 SDK - you'll have to go to the Microsoft site to get it.

steddyman

07-09-2003, 10:03 PM

Everything about the 2215 is really great except one thing: The screen shimmers. If you look at the 1910, the screen is rock solid with no "waves" indicating refresh. The 2215 is like the Audiovox Maestro : you can see the refresh - it's really annoying!!

Interesting - my eyes are very sensitive to refresh rates (it drives me insane when I see a CRT monitor set to 60Hz and the user doesn't see it), and I don't see anything like what you're describing on my 2215. It looks every bit as solid as the 5450 next to it. My wife has the 1910, so I can't compare that yet. ;-)

Jason

The 5450 suffers from the shimmering problem too, I think its something the HP guys brought over with them since the WDA 928 had exactly the same issue.

If you put a 3970 next to the 5450 you will notice a difference straight away. The 3970 is much brighter and the whites are white rather than cream colored. The shimmering only occurs for a couple of seconds when you switch on the device after it as been switched off for a few minutes.

Final gripe, the sensitivity of the 5450 screen is awful. It requires that you tap really hard on the start menu compared to the 3970. I tested the 2215 last week and the shimmering is there, but it doesn't suffer from an insensitive screen.

I own all these devices so the comparison is completely without bias. I've also tested three different 5450's and they're all exactly the same. The top of the screen seems less sensitive than anywhere else.

Steddy

Bichcake

07-14-2003, 03:58 AM

Hey! Everyone glossed over the question about the dongle. I want to know as well because i've got a bluetooth dongle on order.

If I plug a bluetooth dongle into my usb port will it make my desktop an access point? Or do I need to buy a bluetooth access point.

this is kinda important because for the same price as an access point i can buy a wifi cf card and a wifi pci card, and all i want to do is sit on the couch and surf.

Plus, I'm to much of an eliteist to buy a cell phone, so I can't conect that way so this is important!

ps. it hasn't been mentioned here but HP has deep discounts for students and teachers. I've got a 2210 on order form them for $263.

Jason Dunn

07-14-2003, 04:39 AM

If I plug a bluetooth dongle into my usb port will it make my desktop an access point? Or do I need to buy a bluetooth access point.

Yes, you should be able to bridge the connection between your 2215, your desktop PC, and the Internet connection.

I say "should" because I have no clue how to do it. I have a BT dongle here that I installed onto my desktop PC and I couldn't get jack to work. :roll:

Bichcake

07-14-2003, 04:45 AM

Ah well thank you. good review, by the way.

I emailed hp support but they probably won't get back to me till tomorrow.

I'll post what they say though because I bet there are others that want to know too.

edit: haha! Jack! that's a good little pun there!

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

07-14-2003, 05:47 PM

If I plug a bluetooth dongle into my usb port will it make my desktop an access point? Or do I need to buy a bluetooth access point.
No access point needed. In fact, ActiveSync treats the BT connection the same as any other serial connection (USB, RS232 Serial). So no special configuration is required. The only semi-tricky part is getting the ActiveSync to work the first time which means you need to set up a BT partnership and establish your computer/laptop as the default BT ActiveSync partner. From there, have ActiveSync set up to listen to the COM port that you have BT serial connection service set up on (configured via the dongle software) and you're set.

Bichcake

07-15-2003, 05:26 AM

That's just what the HP guy told me, ekkie. Thanks!

While wifi is the more popular option, this way you don't have to buy any wifi hardware, and you only need a $30 dongle, plus it leaves both the slots on the 2210 free.

the hp guy didn't have any info on compatibility, though. But he did give a link to a guy who does this with a tdk usb adapter.
http://www.ppcshowcase.com/hardware/tdk_bluetooth&activesync_with_ipaq_3870.htm

also the wifi cards drain the batteries quicker than bluetooth.

on my campus, hotspots are only starting to pop up, so i shouldn't need it yet anyway. Maybe i'll ask for a wifi card for christmas.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

07-15-2003, 09:08 AM

While wifi is the more popular option, this way you don't have to buy any wifi hardware, and you only need a $30 dongle, plus it leaves both the slots on the 2210 free.

the hp guy didn't have any info on compatibility, though. But he did give a link to a guy who does this with a tdk usb adapter.
I currently use a D-Link USB dongle (DBT-120) (http://www.d-link.com/products/?pid=34) and it works great. Though I've heard really good things about the TDK adapter as well.

Bichcake

07-15-2003, 07:14 PM

the belkin website has a 100 meter range dongle that i ordered. the F8T001. i don't expect to get that range but if i can get a tenth of that with a good connection i'll be happy. if you get it refurbished then it is only $23.99, though i don't know when i'll get it. they make a point of telling you then can't guarantee delivery dates for refurbished parts.

oh well.

is anyone is having trouble with bluetooth then you might want to check out this forum thread that the hp customer support guy sent me. it might help some of you out.
http://bizforums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x0d52c1c4ceddd61190050090279cd0f9,00.html

Bichcake

07-16-2003, 06:49 AM

hey they shipped it already! that's a star in my book!

now i just hope it works

rpommier

07-16-2003, 02:50 PM

Here's another useful thread on getting bluetooth configured... It helped me get going with my 2210 and Belkin F8T001...

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14388&highlight=bluetooth

gpspassion

07-18-2003, 11:41 PM

So is it a 200mhz bus or not after all? I've been reading articles that seem to imply it is one, like on the e750...

Just came across CPUID for PocketPCs so if someone has a 2215 handy it might be worth a try http://www.pocketpccity.com/software/pocketpc/CPUID-2003-5-1-ce-pocketpc.html

Jason Dunn

07-19-2003, 12:09 AM

So is it a 200mhz bus or not after all? I've been reading articles that seem to imply it is one, like on the e750...

The internal Xscale bus is 200mhz, but they're using 100mhz SDRAM, so the effective bus speed is 100mhz. Check the first paragraph of my review.

gpspassion

07-19-2003, 12:16 AM

I did catch that, but was confused between the "internal" bus (whatever that is...) and the system bus, which is what really matters, right.

I take it all PX255 chips have an "internal" bus of 200mhz but only the e750 has a 200mhz "system" bus for now...

Pony99CA

07-19-2003, 03:24 AM

I did catch that, but was confused between the "internal" bus (whatever that is...) and the system bus, which is what really matters, right.

I take it all PX255 chips have an "internal" bus of 200mhz but only the e750 has a 200mhz "system" bus for now...
I believe the internal bus is what the processor uses to communicate with other components on the chip -- like cache memory. See my post in the "HP iPAQ 2215 or wait for 3800 series upgrade in...OCTOBER!!" thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14300&start=19) for more details about the PXA255 and StrongARM.

As for the Toshiba e750 having a 200 MHz external bus, I'd be surprised. The XScale only has a 100 MHz external bus. See Intel's PXA255 Web page (http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/252780.htm) for details. Check the I/O Expansion section where they say the memory bus is 100 MHz and the second row in The Intel® PXA255 Processor Advantage table at the bottom of the page where they say the PXA255 has a faster internal bus than the PXA250.

Steve

gpspassion

07-19-2003, 06:23 AM

Got it, thanks!

So really that "internal bus" is just the "internal cache" part, which brings us back to the old days of the Celeron (and PPro) having on-dye full speed cache compared to the PIIs that had 1/2 speed off chip cache!

You're right there's no reason the e750 would have a 200mhz bus unless Toshiba changed the design which is unlikely. I know a guy who has one so I'l have him run CPUID v1.3 on it.

journey

07-21-2003, 07:00 PM

23 seconds reboot time is intolerable!

I can see it now...

Them: "What's his phone number?"
Me: "Oh crap, hang on... PPC froze up."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "Give me a second to reboot."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "20 more seconds now..."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "Almost there..."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "OK! Now the PPC is back. Let me load up Pocket Informant."
Them: "OK" (waiting...)
Me: "OK, now what was I looking up again???"

:roll:

This exact scenario happened to me this morning. I got my h2215 on Friday, and loaded up my ap's over the weekend. I had the unit freeze up on me twice this morning. Of course, one of those times was when I was going to show it off...

Actually, the h2215 did not freeze up during actual use, as much as it had 'hung'--I did not turn off the unit from its previous use, and when I went to use it, it was hung. The only thing that I have been able to do, is soft reset it. Hard to tell if its a h2215 issue or a ppc2003 issue.

T-Will

07-21-2003, 07:12 PM

Actually, the h2215 did not freeze up during actual use, as much as it had 'hung'--I did not turn off the unit from its previous use, and when I went to use it, it was hung. The only thing that I have been able to do, is soft reset it. Hard to tell if its a h2215 issue or a ppc2003 issue.

Make sure you have the automatic backup disabled and make sure you don't have any battery monitor programs going. There's discussion that some lockups and alarms not going off could be due to both or either of these programs.

luiskim

08-02-2003, 03:37 AM

is there anyway i can change the color on the screen??? i'm talking about the RBG settings... i mean... i think if i can only change the settings for the colors, the screen might look even better than the 1910...
and if i'm mistaken someone please fix me... thanks...

Jason Dunn

08-05-2003, 06:19 PM

is there anyway i can change the color on the screen??? i'm talking about the RBG settings...

That's not possible AFAIK.

qmrq

08-08-2003, 06:52 AM

The problem with a SNES emulator is a) it's illegal, b) it might not report back a number that we need. For instance, WMP doesn't report video frame rates, so we can't use it as a benchmark for performance, which sucks. :evil:

? Not hardly. :p

netnem

08-19-2003, 10:24 AM

Perhaps the most shocking difference in speed for me was, strangely enough, ActiveSync speeds. I connected my iPAQ 2215 to the front USB 2.0 port on my Shuttle SS51G, and when I transferred 20 BMP images that were 250 KB each, the entire process only took a few seconds – I was amazed!

umm, maybe you were really tired, or maybe i have a bad ipaq 2215. After reading your review I said to myself "Well, it takes bloody forever to sync anything with my computer." So I downloaded your guy's famous SPB Benchmark and ran the active sync speed test. While yours is getting a ~2500 benchmark, I am getting ~275. Orignally, I thought it was my usb 1.1 ports being the problem. But after I got thinking Usb1.1 has a bandwidth of 11mpbs. WAY faster than anything a Pocket Pc could ever need. I ended up taking back a USB bluetooth dongle because it was waaaay to slow for internet browsing/syncing. After taking the BT dongle back I tryed again to get USB to sync at your speeds. I tested with nothing else but the cradle plugged in, so it wasn't being limited by any other usb devices. I backed up all my data and did a hard reset (ugh). I uninstalled/reinstalled Activesync 3.7 without any problems whatsoever. I installed your benchmark program to the now "clean slated" ipaq, and the benchmark speed is STILL ~275. Before I read your review I almost bought a CF/SD reader so that I could get mp3's/movie files on my Ipaq 2215. After I read your review I was extremely confused because my unit has caused me no problems, and has activesynced perfect (except for the extremely slow speeds). Have any of you other Ipaq 2215 users had as quick of sync speeds as Jason? "Twenty 250kb files in a few seconds"...I replicated this test, using twenty ~150kb files...it took exactly 1 minutes and 11 seconds. I am very upset over this, and I don't think it is anything hardware/software with the ipaq. I read that MS Activesync was programmed around serial, so it creates an overhead that doesn't go much faster than serial. Also, I have read other posts that people who have switched from Serial to USB "can't tell any difference." I'm not sure what version of Activesync they are using but I certainly can't tell any difference between my Ipaq 2215 and serial speeds. Anyone else who has suffered [and preferably fixed] this problem please post for the rest of us who are having slow speeds with activesync/Ipaq 2215 right out of the box. Thanks! -Dan

Jason Dunn

08-20-2003, 09:57 PM

umm, maybe you were really tired, or maybe i have a bad ipaq 2215.

You've definitely got some bad hardware there. Can you test the 2215 on another PC to isolate what the problem is? Trust me, the 2215 is FAST at synching.