Predictions for tomorrow

[jkabaseball]

lets here what everyone thinks will happen.

facts: 3 new Ipaq's, 1 toshiba+ upgrade for 750's and ppc '03

rumors: I think dell will introduce X3 (not X7)
Gateway will introduce theres
price drop on ppc 2002's

anything i missed?

[Cortex]

you forgot to mention pocket pc 2003 (2 years in the making) will suck

8O

[Pony99CA]

lets here what everyone thinks will happen.

facts: 3 new Ipaq's, 1 toshiba+ upgrade for 750's and ppc '03


Your "fact" is wrong. There will be at least four new iPAQs -- the 1940, the 2210, the 5150 and the 5550. Read the HP press release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2003/ipaq/1952_dualslotipaq.pdf).

Steve

[jkabaseball]

sorry, should haveread all new posts before posting.

another fact: i'm leaving my trusty 520 and getting one of these bad boyz.

[Pony99CA]

you forgot to mention pocket pc 2003 (2 years in the making) will suck
Care to elaborate? Do you mean it will suck because it's bad (buggy, incompatible or had features removed), or because you aren't happy with what was added?

Steve

[Cortex]

something was added?

[maximus]

So far I am sticking to tho following scripting :

IF the upgrade to PPC03 is free
THEN get it.
ELSE forget about it.

:wink:

[jkabaseball]

correct me if i'm wrong but the core was updated from 3 to 4.2 right? its taken microsoft a long time to make 4.2 and they just have a 2002 skin on it now and with updates (hopfully :roll: ) you will see what this thing can do. I'd have to bet in the next year you see some solid inprovements in it.

if you don't like it you can make your own os or go to palm! What else would you like that you can't get on it?

[maximus]

correct me if i'm wrong but the core was updated from 3 to 4.2 right? its taken microsoft a long time to make 4.2 and they just have a 2002 skin on it now and with updates (hopfully ) you will see what this thing can do. I'd have to bet in the next year you see some solid inprovements in it.


Something that took a long time to make, is not necessarily good. Remember windows NT version 3.0 ? 2.5 years in the making ? yet it was so dull and annoying.

[Cortex]

so whats the advantage of upgrading the core if it looks the same and runs the same apps?

i know -- "we needed to upgrade the core for future devices. we can tack on the PocketPC GUI, run the same apps and make it look like we did something."

marketing at its finest...

wake me up when this is over :zzz:

[jkabaseball]

ok you win

[jkabaseball]

well didn't they update the "core" of windows in XP? I like XP alot, it was worth the upgrade. The core is the first thing that has to be done then you can get all the extras and stuff in it. 1st was 2000 then XP. You have to start somewhere

[Cortex]

i am excited about the new devices coming out

i just think its pathetic that people at microsoft can sit on their butts sooooooo much

think about it... palms were black and white with 160x160 screens, 8mb RAM, expensive and no expansion -- and i was sporting a casio em500 with 64k color 240x320 screen, 16 mb RAM, SD card expansion!

that was 3 YEARS AGO!!!! and whats new with OS???

"hey, the today screen is skinable" 8O

[Cortex]

XP was worth it because win9x was an unstable pile of poop that was a giant kludge of DOS. it took forever to reach win2000 and XP because they wanted to maintain backward compatibility.

pocket pc's are a completely different animal. they are trying to develop compatibility with the CE OS but you have to ask WHY???? is it really going to expediate application development or benifit the user, when they are dictating we use the same GUI that they have been using for years???

it dumb

we should have 640x480 devices with landscape mode by now
:mecry:

[dh]

My prediction for tomorrow is the SONY will anounce a new NX PDA based on Pocket PC2003.

It will have all the current NX features but with a proper CF slot, SDIO instead of Memory Stick and have built in BT and 802.11b.

Oh, it will also have a SIM card slot for GPRS connectivity. (Did I mention the 128MB of RAM?)

I'll be at BestBuy first thing in the morning to get mine. (I wish!)

[Pony99CA]

so whats the advantage of upgrading the core if it looks the same and runs the same apps?

What's the point of upgrading the engine in your car if the car looks the same and runs the same? Fewer breakdowns (stability), better gas mileage (battery life), etc.

The list of expected upgrades in Pocket PC 2003 has been posted in many places. Here's the list at pocketnow (http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13409) (I'm sure I've seen it here, too, but couldn't find it using the Search tool). Go look at the list and tell us what you expected.

wake me up when this is over :zzz:
Stop posting in your sleep. :-) (Sometimes, I think it's too bad Brad's "no whining" rule doesn't apply outside of contests.)

Steve

[Cortex]

so you are predicting better stability and longer battery life...

i predict you will see neither!

Stop posting in your sleep.

sleep deprivation produces delerium :roll:

[Pony99CA]

so you are predicting better stability and longer battery life...

i predict you will see neither!
The improved battery life may not be part of the OS, but the PXA255s should get that.

I would hope that Windows CE 4.2 would be more stable, too, which would translate into fewer resets.

However, I'm not predicting either; I'm content to wait and see what's announced and read reviews. Predictions are kind of silly, especially one day before the announcement.

Steve

[jkabaseball]

upgrading the "inside" of the car means later you can upgrade other stuff.

landscape down the short road.
higher resolutions
better PIE

[Cortex]

...later you can upgrade other stuff.


:crazyeyes: :mecry: :crazyeyes: :mecry: :crazyeyes: :mecry: :crazyeyes: :mecry:

[jkabaseball]

free via microsoft web site :D :D :D :D :D .....maybe

[spg]

Something I noticed while reading that HP press release that was mentioned earlier - It says the units are powered by "Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 for Pocket PC". Interesting... prehaps a naming scheme change that will be announced? I could see them having "Windows Mobile" for Pocket PC, SmartPhone, etc... Whatever the case it will be interesting to see what comes out of tomorrow, and if there are any major surprises.

[jkabaseball]

I don't think any major suprises will come out. Its pritty hard to hold such a secret now in days, with the media, internet, and people talking. THere will be one device that comes out no one knows about, but we know just about EVERYTHING that will happen. Anyone know what time they will introduce ppc 2003 and when gateway and companies will introduce their ppc.

The gateway ppc sounds like a really bad idea. You know how many ppc's are out there just like it at same price or cheaper. It better be small.

I hope i'm totally wrong. Sony + ppc = tomorrow best buy first thing... bringing lots of money too.

[Crystal Eitle]

So far I am sticking to tho following scripting :

IF the upgrade to PPC03 is free
THEN get it.
ELSE forget about it.
Can you put that in Haiku form? :wink:

[Kati Compton]

I can put it into C:

upgrade_PPC2003 = upgrade(PPC, 2002, 2003);
if (price(upgrade_PPC2003) == 0) purchase(upgrade_PPC2003);
else free(upgrade_PPC2003);


or C++:

upgrade_PPC2003 = PPC2002->upgrade();
if (upgrade_PPC2003->getPrice() == 0) upgrade_PPC2003->purchase();
else delete upgrade_PPC2003;

[jkabaseball]

anyone running out tomorrow for a new ppc?

if not what would it take?
wifi+bluetooth+not sled= 90 mph down I-71

[jkabaseball]

I can read C/C++!!!! :D :D
if its free its for me!

[dh]

This isn't a prediction because I know it won't happen.

Wouldn't it be great if HP had decided to install a CF slot on the new H5550. That way everyone would be happy.

The old sledder guys would still be able to use all the PC cards and other goodies they had bought.

People (me for example) who would not buy a device without two slots would now have access to the PPC with the best spec of all. The 5000 series is not exactly small so it should have been technically possible to squeeze that extra option in.

I know the 2210 has two slots, but it does not thrill me enough to replace my Axim. Looks like I'll be waiting for the X7.

[jkabaseball]

then your going to be waiting a loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg time because i don't think its coming anytime soon. NO one has heard anything about it.

[Kati Compton]

This isn't a prediction because I know it won't happen.

Wouldn't it be great if HP had decided to install a CF slot on the new H5550. That way everyone would be happy.

The old sledder guys would still be able to use all the PC cards and other goodies they had bought.
I've played with one briefly, and I can verify it's like the specs - no CF.

[disconnected]

I agree; if the 5500 had a CF slot I'd be in line at 6 am. As it is, I'll probably wait a month or two and wish for someone else to come out with similar specs.

[dh]

Our only hope right now is the elusive Axim X7. If this does arrive, I'm sure it will not have the same larger screen as the Ipaqs.

[Enderet]

The "prediction" of better battery life really isnt a prediction. At Brighthand people are reporting a battery life of 8+ hours on the new iPaq 2200 series which comes with a small battery :lol: :D

[nz0eBoy]

OK, it is the 23rd here in New Zealand, does that release Jason from his NDA so we can find out all the juicy stuff?

[Paul P]

OK, it is the 23rd here in New Zealand, does that release Jason from his NDA so we can find out all the juicy stuff?

Is there any juicy stuff left that hasn't been posted on the forums yet? :)

[Mitch D]

anyone running out tomorrow for a new ppc?


I would love too but I have to wait till payday and for them to come into the store. I would rather support my own company and department payroll! But yes I am seriously thinking of replacing my 3830 with a 2215.

[Jonathon Watkins]

we should have 640x480 devices with landscape mode by now :mecry:

Agreed on that point. I think I will hold off upgrading my Dell X5 unit untill I can get a PPC with those specs. I would pay up to £25 for the PPC 2003 upgrade from Dell, but no more. Still, not long to wait now for PPC 2003. Now we just need to wait for the Spring 2004 PPC upgrade to arrive. :? Will we ever be happy with what we have actually got in our hands? :|

[g0097]

The speed difference between 2002 and 2003 is amazing. There are definate improvements that have been made to PIE. I can definately say that my 2215 kicks my old 5455's butt as far as performance is concerned. We are not even going to talk about with video. :D Overall you are getting a better device than what has been out there right now. If you already an older pda and you like the way that it performs then fine...but if you are like me and hated the snail speed of 2002 somethings then 2003 with be heaven. Even large files and programs such as textmaker. My goodness..so much better!

[Cortex]

The speed difference between 2002 and 2003 is amazing.... Even large files and programs such as textmaker. My goodness..so much better!

speed is good, but honestly there arent that many apps that im having trouble with regarding speed. in fact i cant think of many programs i use that are that demanding...

my strongarm 203 mhz t-mo phone does pretty well with video as it is (ignoring the 4k colors)

but i do hope there is some improvement by going with the .net core

as it is i dont see anything coming out that would tempt me away from my ppcpe.

[Cortex]

dh posted a link to a nice review of the 2003 OS

http://www.pdajunkie.net/index.html?pdajunkie_net_ppc2003.htm&2

i'll summarize -- ho hum

and i'll reiterate my desire to "work" on the pocket pc OS team.

perhaps they dont make very much...

[dh]

i'll summarize -- ho hum

I think the guy doing the review summed it up well by saying that it makes sense to make sure you get PPC2003 if buying a new device, but it's not essential to upgrade all our existing devices.

I'm as interested in the new hardware as the new OS. I have some programs I'd like to speed up (Textmaker takes a while to load for one) but I would love to see some inovative new devices. Looks like I might have to wait a while.


and i'll reiterate my desire to "work" on the pocket pc OS team.

perhaps they dont make very much...

I hear the MS PPC guy isn't due to retire for quite a while. I guess you'll just have to wait.

Oh well, back to the Yankees and Mets!

[Enderet]

Its strange that all of these PPC devices that claim to have PPC2003.... actually are running... Windows Mobile...or so it seems...

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3723.html

[dh]

What's intresting is that there had been no word of JVC offering PPC devices.

Cool, they could be the PPC (sorry Windows Mobile) answer to Sony!

The model with the embedded 802.11b looks cool.

http://www.infosync.no/news/2003/06/23/gfx/jvc_io_02.jpg

[Cortex]

looks cool

reminds me of the philips nino

[nihilism]

looks cool

reminds me of the philips nino

I don't like it.....could be from space oddessy......
Too 80's for my taste and a bit plastic looking......

[maximus]

yeah, too square-ish ...

looks like a game boy advance .. :wink:

[Kati Compton]

I don't think there's anything *wrong* with it.

I'd really like to see more devices with 4" screens, though. Even better if the resolution is improved, of course. Sigh. In the meantime I'll lust after a Sony U101, then look at the cost of it and the costs of replacement batteries/adapters/etc and cry. Oh, and the memory s(t)ick thing. Blah. Now I'm depressed. :|

[Scott R]

I had been predicting that some of the early screenshot leaks were lacking some last-minute XP-style GUI updates, but apparently some folks have bought production models (released a bit early) and the screenshots that have been posted look just like PPC 2002. As I've stated in the past, this doesn't necessarily disappoint me as much as surprise me, since the lack of any new gee-whiz features would be very un-Microsoft-like. Which brings us to another interesting point...there has been nary a peep from Microsoft about tomorrow's official launch date. I can understand them keeping the details under wraps, but didn't they tout the original PPC and PPC 2002 launch dates in advance? So, based on the lack of new gee-whiz stuff and the lack of any pre-announcement about this "big day", I'm guessing that we won't be seeing any major excitement here. Still, Jason and company promised us that we shouldn't believe everything we read elsewhere and that there was some exciting stuff here, so we'll see.

Based on what has been leaked thus far, there's an obvious enterprise focus on the changes that have been made, though the Bubblets clone is a bit of an oddball in that regard. Speed improvements are always welcome, though we seem to have differing opinions out there from people who have had access to real devices. One user (the creator of PI) claims major speed improvements, while the pdajunkie site mentions some speed improvements but I didn't get the impression that they were dramatic.

I'm disappointed to see (or not see) that the "X" button is still there (which I'm guessing still serves as a "smart-minimize" button) and the lack of any built-in task switcher. I'm also curious as to whether recurring alarms have been re-implemented (i.e. - fixed). Lastly, I'm sure many will be disappointed at the apparent lack of round-trip improvements to Pocket Word and Excel. Quite frankly, someone needs to account for why they couldn't find the development resources to address these things but somehow managed to allocate resources to developing a Bubblets clone.

Other predictions for tomorrow? I've been surprised to see a relative lack of clearance pricing on existing PPC 2002 devices. While this could be explained by a relatively ho-hum improvement in PPC 2003, it could also imply that most/all PPC 2002 devices will be upgradable to 2003. On that point, I'd suspect that the upgrade cost will be minimal ($30).

Scott

[Scott R]

Oh yeah, my other prediction is that we'll see some new PPC devices officially announced, all of which have center-mounted D-Pads.

Scott

[Enderet]

Why do they all go with center mounted? Bleh...i dont like it....i want gameboy style ....:D

[Cortex]

dont want to piss off the lefties

[Pony99CA]

This isn't a prediction because I know it won't happen.

Wouldn't it be great if HP had decided to install a CF slot on the new H5550. That way everyone would be happy.

The old sledder guys would still be able to use all the PC cards and other goodies they had bought.

People (me for example) who would not buy a device without two slots would now have access to the PPC with the best spec of all. The 5000 series is not exactly small so it should have been technically possible to squeeze that extra option in.
<rant>
:really mad:
If you know it won't happen, why bother wishing for it? Don't you think that if HP (or Compaq before them) could have done it, they would have? Don't you think they know we want Compact Flash?

If I could make the next person wishing for a Compact Flash slot in sleeve-compatbile iPAQs explode, I would.
:microwave:
</rant>

We now return to our regularly scheduled topic.

Steve

[Kati Compton]

If I could make the next person wishing for a Compact Flash slot in sleeve-compatbile iPAQs explode, I would.
Just because you're tired of hearing about it? I mean, it doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing to want.

[dh]

If I could make the next person wishing for a Compact Flash slot in sleeve-compatbile iPAQs explode, I would.
:microwave:
</rant>

We now return to our regularly scheduled topic.

Steve

Well I still want it. Hopefully a PPC manufacturer that actually has a marketing department will listen to the customers and bloody well make it.

Roll on the X7 :crazyeyes:

[disconnected]

Well I still want the CF slot; it's my single biggest disappointment in everything I've read so far. The 5550 is surely large enough to have room for it. I'd be more than willing to give up the fingerprint reader.
Missing software can always be added, albeit for more money. Hardware is depressingly non-modular. I'd even be willing to use my SS2, if only Vaja or someone would make a case for it; the stock CF sleeve is ridiculously and needlessly large.

[Scott R]

These comments about the lack of a CF slot in the 5500 series brings up an interesting issue. The cost of the 2215 is $400 and the 5150 costs $150 more. The 5150 has a bigger battery (1250 vs 900 mAh), sleeve compatibility, and larger screen (3.8" vs 3.5"). There may also be some differences in the type and amount of RAM/ROM used. The 2215 has in its favor the CF slot and a smaller size and lighter weight. The 5150 looks to be a difficult sell, IMO. I suppose there are some people who really need the PCMCIA sleeve capability and maybe already have an investment in current sleeves, but the 2215 sure looks a lot more appealing to me.

Scott

[Jacob]

These comments about the lack of a CF slot in the 5500 series brings up an interesting issue. The cost of the 2215 is $400 and the 5150 costs $150 more. The 5150 has a bigger battery (1250 vs 900 mAh), sleeve compatibility, and larger screen (3.8" vs 3.5"). There may also be some differences in the type and amount of RAM/ROM used. The 2215 has in its favor the CF slot and a smaller size and lighter weight. The 5150 looks to be a difficult sell, IMO. I suppose there are some people who really need the PCMCIA sleeve capability and maybe already have an investment in current sleeves, but the 2215 sure looks a lot more appealing to me.

Scott

I must agree - for $150 more I wouldn't see that being worth it. From the specs it has the same amount of RAM and ROM.

Only if you want the larger battery and screen and you have sleeves would you go for it.

[Pony99CA]

If I could make the next person wishing for a Compact Flash slot in sleeve-compatbile iPAQs explode, I would.
Just because you're tired of hearing about it? I mean, it doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing to want.
You don't think being tired of hearing about it is good enough? It's like a little child. "Daddy, I want a pool." "Our yard isn't big enough for a pool." "But I want a pool." "They can't fit one in our yard." "But I really want one." Hello -- we get it!

It's quite reasonable to want Compact Flash. I want it, too; I'm just not going to mention it in a thread about predicting tomorrow's devices when I know I'm not going to get it.

But, again, don't you think it would have been done by now if it could have been? Let's count the iPAQ releases since the original 3600 series that didn't have a CF slots, shall we?

3800
3900
5400
5500 and 5100

I don't think Compaq and HP are so stupid or their engineering is so bad that they wouldn't have done this if they could have.

The bottom line is that you can now get an iPAQ with Compact Flash (and SDIO, too) -- it's called the 2210. It won't be the 5550. Get over it, people.

Steve

[Kati Compton]

The bottom line is that you can now get an iPAQ with Compact Flash (and SDIO, too) -- it's called the 2210. It won't be the 5550. Get over it, people.
I think it's because Compaq/HP are committed to SD. I think the 19xx and 22xx are experimental departures from their "normal" ipaqs in order to test the market. So first they tested the market's desire for a smaller unit with fewer features. Now they're testing the market's desire for CF slots. Just because the users here say they want CF slots doesn't mean that HP believes they'd sell more units with CF. Frankly, given that the 22xx is dual slot and has CF, I *do* wonder why they couldn't fit CF instead of SD in another model. I could believe maybe there's not room for both with bluetooth and wireless and everything else in there... But substitution at least?

But again, it's that in the past they'd committed to SD. Why piss off an existing customer base by not having an SD slot?

Just because people ask for something doesn't mean they're going to get it, whether or not it's possible. But if you stop asking, you *definitely* won't get it.

[maximus]

It's quite reasonable to want Compact Flash. I want it, too; I'm just not going to mention it in a thread about predicting tomorrow's devices when I know I'm not going to get it.

I personally want ipaq's top of the line to have both CF and SD. But, if it doesnt happen, it doesnt. There are still other brands that give you both CF and SD. Life is full of compromise. Take it or leave it.

I don't think Compaq and HP are so stupid or their engineering is so bad that they wouldn't have done this if they could have.


Out of curiosity, from your personal opinion, what is the reason for them not to include CF slot in the 5550 ? The 5550 is supposed to be an uber machine, a machine that has it all. The lack of CF will significantly cripple their marketing.

[maximus]

If I could make the next person wishing for a Compact Flash slot in sleeve-compatbile iPAQs explode, I would.


Heheh. Dont be mean. :D

[Pony99CA]

Out of curiosity, from your personal opinion, what is the reason for them not to include CF slot in the 5550 ? The 5550 is supposed to be an uber machine, a machine that has it all. The lack of CF will significantly cripple their marketing.
They can't fit a Compact Flash slot in because there's no space. They had enough room for an SD slot, which is why the 3800s and beyond have them.

Maybe one day, if the supporting components shrink enough, there will be room, but a Compact Flash slot has a fairly large minimum size -- the size of a CF card.

Steve

[dh]

Out of curiosity, from your personal opinion, what is the reason for them not to include CF slot in the 5550 ? The 5550 is supposed to be an uber machine, a machine that has it all. The lack of CF will significantly cripple their marketing.
They can't fit a Compact Flash slot in because there's no space. They had enough room for an SD slot, which is why the 3800s and beyond have them.

Maybe one day, if the supporting components shrink enough, there will be room, but a Compact Flash slot has a fairly large minimum size -- the size of a CF card.

Steve

Or there is no CF card in the 5550 because HP do not believe that the additional sales would warrent the cost of redesigning the device to fit one in. Technically it could obviously be done, look at how they implemented CF and SD in the 2215.

I guess I have to stop wishing for all the features I want with the nice big 5xxx screens and look instead to the 2215 if I decide to go with HP.

[maximus]

I guess I have to stop wishing for all the features I want with the nice big 5xxx screens and look instead to the 2215 if I decide to go with HP.


I thought you are going to stay with dell ? :)

[dh]

I guess I have to stop wishing for all the features I want with the nice big 5xxx screens and look instead to the 2215 if I decide to go with HP.


I thought you are going to stay with dell ? :)

I did say IF I went with HP. You're right though, the chances are I will upgrade my X5 and see what happens over the next few months. I'm very happy with the Axim and the one time it broke Dell sent a new one the same day.

I do like the idea of the higher speed and the neat form factor. Trouble is, I'd need to buy a BT phone and a new case so the HP would be an expensive proposition.

[Pony99CA]

Or there is no CF card in the 5550 because HP do not believe that the additional sales would warrent the cost of redesigning the device to fit one in.

That's certainly possible, but I doubt it. What are the biggest complaints about the sleeve-compatible iPAQs? I suspect that they are that they're too big (especially with a sleeve) and there's no Compact Flash slot. Adding a CF slot (if possible) would help on both fronts.

Do they have market research that shows adding a CF slot would not justify the expense? I have no idea.

Technically it could obviously be done, look at how they implemented CF and SD in the 2215.

I don't think it's obvious at all -- at least not if you wanted to keep the things that the 3970 has (not to mention the 5150 and 5550). Look what the 2215 doesn't have compared to the 5150:

Sleeve support obviously. :-) That takes some electronics in the case.
The 3.8" screen.
A 1250 mah battery. My iPAQ 3800 has a 1400 mah battery. When HP made the batteries removable, they had to go with a 1250 mah battery. Why? Probably because there wasn't room to make it removable and 1400 mah.
A record button. That takes some room.

Are those items sufficient to prevent a CF slot? I don't know, but it's possible. Add in WiFi, vibrating alarms and 48 MB ROM like the 5550 has, and you've got more space taken up.

Now, here's an interesting possibility. Suppose HP could fit a CF slot in the 5150, but not the 5550. Do you think they should release that, or would it cause too much confusion about which iPAQ was the higher-end one?

Steve

[dh]

Now, here's an interesting possibility. Suppose HP could fit a CF slot in the 5150, but not the 5550. Do you think they should release that, or would it cause too much confusion about which iPAQ was the higher-end one? Steve

Yes, that is interesting. Removing the radio bits must free up a bit of space inside the case.
But, the two things that I really like about the 5xxx series are the larger screen (compared to my Axim) and the two radios. I don't think I personally would buy it just for the screen.
All in all, the 2215 is the Ipaq that would appeal to me the most right now. I might have to do the rounds of the stores this lunchtime to see if I can see one.

[Enderet]

The 5150 seems kinda :? to me. I know for sure Id rather get the 2215 instead of that one... or maybe the new axim if its ever released(the rumored 2215 killer)

[Janak Parekh]

I think it's because Compaq/HP are committed to SD.
I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The 3600 and 3700 units did not have SD, and yet, they didn't have a CF slot. I know, I had one. The fact they released a CF sleeve alongside with the 3650 units, and with a rebate, also adds to the fact that they didn't eschew CF, they just couldn't do it, and they expect the sleeves to take care of it.

Personally, I have to agree with Pony on this debate. :) I've seen pictures of the 3800/3900 units, and they are jam-packed: the Li-Poly battery eats up a lot of space. The 5450/5550 can only be worse, with its two radios, consumer IR, etc.

Now, is it totally theoretically impossible that they pull it off? Probably not, they could probably squeeze it into the 5150 or totally miniaturize the 5550 or develop some form of a thicker front which works around the sleeve or something. However, is it impractical? Yes, I think so.

And Steve, I'm totally disappointed in you. You didn't use the "but Janak says the Silver Slider or the CF+ sleeve makes it totally manageable sizewize!" And, it does. Don't forget the Whitney cases (www.madebywhitney.com) either! If you want a 5450 with a CF sleeve, you can get it without a lot of bulk.

--janak

[Kati Compton]

Now, here's an interesting possibility. Suppose HP could fit a CF slot in the 5150, but not the 5550. Do you think they should release that, or would it cause too much confusion about which iPAQ was the higher-end one?
Good question. Thinking about it from HP's point of view, I'd say they should stick with SD for uniformity. However, if people *do* keep asking for CF, in the future it's possible they'd see it differently. That was my point - I agree that using SD makes sense to HP from *their* point of view. However, I think that point of view could potentially be changed by the consumers if there's enough demand. That demand could drive HP to re-evaluate what's important. Maybe that would be the creation of a dual-slot 3.8" device with only one of wireless or bluetooth and no fingerprint scanner. I don't know. I don't have the market data.

Just because it didn't make sense for them to do CF now doesn't automatically mean that it won't make sense in the future.

[Pony99CA]

Just because it didn't make sense for them to do CF now doesn't automatically mean that it won't make sense in the future.
I totally agree with that. In the future, I'd love a Pocket PC with both CF and SD that still accepted sleeves. Unfortunately, I see two problems with that.

First, HP has only committed to producing sleeve-compatible iPAQs for a short time. In fact, I think that time may be up. Of course, consumer demand may keep them producing iPAQs that accept sleeves, but, if demand drops as people buy 1940s and 2210s, don't count on it.

Second, in a few years, CF may be gone in PDAs. Yes, I know it's easier to produce CF cards than SD cards due to size constraints, but as more peripherals become available in SDIO form, CF may be relegated to a niche market in the PDA space, like PC Cards are now.

With the most common peripherals and very large memory cards available in SD format, are people going to want a larger PDA with one CF and one SD slot, or a smaller device with two SD slots instead? (By "smalller", I don't necessarily mean the screen size; I mean the thickness.)

Another possibility is having no slots at all. Maybe Pocket PCs with have enough memory that people don't want memory cards, or we'll move to a distributed model with miniature peripherals communicating with Bluetooth. With Bluetooth cell phones, GPS boxes and hard disks already available, maybe our PDA screen will be just that -- a flexible OLED screen communicating with the CPU via Bluetooth like Mira Smart Displays in the PC World.

Steve

[maximus]

I did say IF I went with HP. You're right though, the chances are I will upgrade my X5 and see what happens over the next few months. I'm very happy with the Axim and the one time it broke Dell sent a new one the same day.


My sentiment exactly. :beer: if X7 is with integrated wifi and CF, and 1400 mah battery with optional 3400 mah battery ... I am soooo there.

[Enderet]

I could do without integrated wireless and all of that..... I just want something that will beat the 2215...because if such a device were ever made it would be the best.(considering how good the 2215 is)

[maximus]

Lets wait until at least 10% of the pocketpcthoughts users purchased it .. and lets see what they say about it.

[Jerry Raia]

free via microsoft web site :D :D :D :D :D .....maybe

Now how are they gonna provide rom images for all the different brands out there??

[maximus]

free via microsoft web site :D :D :D :D :D .....maybe

Now how are they gonna provide rom images for all the different brands out there??

I sincerely think that microsoft will never be that generous. :wink:

[Jerry Raia]

It's not going to happen...if I had to bet.