importance of jog dial

[Chris Pi]

From what I understand the 5550 ipaq's won't have a jog dial because they still take the sleeves. How much does the jog dial help navigating on a ppc? I'll be using pocket ie alot.

[Sslixtis]

In my opinion, for PIE a Jog Dial is nice but not really that big a deal. However, it is a must have if you read alot of e-books and it is kind of nice ofr Windows Media Player.

For me the lack of a Jog Dial on the iPaq 22xx PPCs is a deal breaker! :cry:

[WyattEarp]

A jog dial is IMO a personal preference. I tried it once and found it slow and cumbersome. Unless you are use to it (most likely from being a past owner of a Sony Palm OS device) you will have a learning curve to deal with since most people are use to a stylus or finger press which I found to be faster than any jog dial.

[bigkingfun]

I switched from an e740 to a 5450 and the jog dial is the one thing I really miss. I read a lot of ebooks and email on my PPC and the jog dial is really handy for scrolling. I don't use Pocket IE a lot, but I never used the jog dial with it anyway. Most of the time you need to tap links with the stylus, so you can scroll with it just as easily.

[Sven Johannsen]

Most of the time the jog dial is replicated as up and down on the D-Pad as well. So scrolling vertically can be accomplished without a stylus. It is what you like and get used to.

It was great on the 540 series HPs which had the jog dial but no d-pad. Very usefull. On my 568 Jornada and Dell I find myself scrolling with the pad much more than the side jog. JMHO, YMMV.

[Gremmie]

I switched from an e740 to a 5450 and the jog dial is the one thing I really miss. I read a lot of ebooks and email on my PPC and the jog dial is really handy for scrolling. I don't use Pocket IE a lot, but I never used the jog dial with it anyway. Most of the time you need to tap links with the stylus, so you can scroll with it just as easily.

Agreed, I was a long time ipaq user but after swtiching out my e740 I kinda missed the jog dial. That being said, the e550's d-pad is extremely poor so it did not serve as a good subsitute.

[Janak Parekh]

Mind you, there is a substitute: the volume controls on the left side of the 5450 can be remapped into Up/Down buttons using third-party hacks such as GoLandscape. Not a jog dial, but it's closer to it.

--janak

[Kati Compton]

Mind you, there is a substitute: the volume controls on the left side of the 5450 can be remapped into Up/Down buttons using third-party hacks such as GoLandscape. Not a jog dial, but it's closer to it.

If the hacks don't automatically work for the corresponding buttons on the new 555x series, I'm sure there will be enough interest that they will soon.

[ironguy]

My rocker switch is the most used mechanical item on my Jornada 568. I've been having digitizer problems lately and was all set to get a new 2210... until I found out there is no jog/rocker. I imagine it was removed to make way for the SD slot. Try to hold your PPC in one hand and turn pages in an ebook using the Dpad only while holding a sandwhich. See why it's necessary? Now I'm not sure what to do about a new PPC. :cry:

[Sslixtis]

I've been having digitizer problems lately and was all set to get a new 2210... until I found out there is no jog/rocker. I imagine it was removed to make way for the SD slot. Try to hold your PPC in one hand and turn pages in an ebook using the Dpad only while holding a sandwhich. See why it's necessary?

The SD slot on the 2210 appears to be on the top along with the CF slot which is really cool. However, that gives HP even less of a reason not to have included a jog/rocker on the side! My HP 568's rocker was perfect, I moved to the iPaq 3955 and was really disappointed with the lack of a jog/rocker, it was one of the reasons I replaced it after just 2 months. Alot I liked about the iPaq, but no jog/rocker, no removeable battery, AND having to rely on Compaq Customer Service vs HP Customer Service. It just had to go!

The Dell Axim has a jog dial on the side, the placement takes a bit of getting used to as it's lower than on the Jornada. But atleast you wont starve while reading an eBook! I use my PPC to read eBooks while eating all the time. :lol:

[WyattEarp]

My rocker switch is the most used mechanical item on my Jornada 568. I've been having digitizer problems lately and was all set to get a new 2210... until I found out there is no jog/rocker. I imagine it was removed to make way for the SD slot. Try to hold your PPC in one hand and turn pages in an ebook using the Dpad only while holding a sandwhich. See why it's necessary? Now I'm not sure what to do about a new PPC. :cry:

It's entirely possible to hold the PPC in one hand and use the D-pad with the same hand. It's all in how you hold the unit. But if a jog dial is what you're use to I understand entirely. :D

[Kati Compton]

It's entirely possible to hold the PPC in one hand and use the D-pad with the same hand. It's all in how you hold the unit. But if a jog dial is what you're use to I understand entirely. :D
I think that depends on the size and flexibility of the hand being used. My hands are small enough that when I try to use one hand and my thumb is on the d-pad, the top part of the unit isn't supported enough to make me feel comfortable - it feels like I could easily drop it.

[Stephen Beesley]

Just a "me too" post really but....

As another Jornada user I have to say that I would find it hard to live without the jog dial/wheel/lever. I mainly us it for reading ebooks (something I might spend anything up to a couple of hours a day doing) and find it much easier than trying to use the dpad.

Very very disappointed that the HP 2200 does not have a jog dial of some sort as this was looking good as the eventual replacement for the Jornada. Oh well I guess I will have to wait and see what Dell brings out next.

Goldtee

[ironguy]

Yesterday I tried eating my pepper turkey on dark rye w/swiss while attempting to not use the rocker switch to read. I don't know about you guys, but although I can flip pages with the dpad, I felt as if I was going to drop my ppc. Maybe I just need to get used to it. Width makes a difference. Two of my coworkers have Dells and they just seem too wide for my comfort. Also, the jog switch is in the wrong place as mentioned. It's just too low. The form factor of the J is unbeatable.

I've also tried using the autoscroll feature in uBook, but I found that when my attention wandered, I was left behind. Somebody please come up with an autoscroller that follows your eyes. Thanks.

Maybe someone could develop a reader program that reacts to voice command. "TURN" or "FLIP". Nah, then I'd get pepper turkey all over my J.

[Stephen Beesley]

Yep you really cannot beat the form factor of the Jornada!

One thing that bothers me about the Axim is that the jog dial is actually more of a leaver than a dial - not sure if I like that idea.

Goldtee

[davidspalding]

I may pick up a Jornada to replace my Casio. I thought the 54x series were really nice, once you bought a pen/stylus. ;)

FWIW, I use the jog dial no my Casio a lot. The D-pad is very useful in Media Player, but the jog dial/button is great for reading ebooks, listening to Media Player, browsing the start menu, scrolling through PIE.... Ad nauseam.

[WyattEarp]

It's entirely possible to hold the PPC in one hand and use the D-pad with the same hand. It's all in how you hold the unit. But if a jog dial is what you're use to I understand entirely. :D
I think that depends on the size and flexibility of the hand being used. My hands are small enough that when I try to use one hand and my thumb is on the d-pad, the top part of the unit isn't supported enough to make me feel comfortable - it feels like I could easily drop it.

That's one reason IMO it is a matter of preference and not a necessity. I am use to juggling things in my hands with confidence but not very one is that way. So a jog dial is no big deal to me; I can live with or without it. But some people want their cake and eat it to. I personally don't eat and use my PPC at the same time much. What with greasy fingers and drinks; one good accident and its over.

Anyway jog dials have there place like everything else. Some of these manufacturers just don't think about the placement of things. All PDAs should be able to be used with the same hand as it is being held with IMO.

[Abba Zabba]

Well I read alot of ebooks to on my iPaq but never really cared much for a jog dial. MAybe if I used a device that had one prior, my opinion would be different. That said, why don't ppl just use the left/ right up/down button. It works just the same :roll:

[msprague]

I had a jog dial on my Aero 1550 and I thought that I would miss it when I got my Maestro, but in a couple of weeks I had forgotten about it. The d-pad serves me well enough. If I read more ebooks I would probably check into getting the record button to serve as 'page down' so that I could have a change of position once in a while, but it has turned out not to be a big deal for me.

Yes, I am still using a Maestro. The hp22xx has been the first tempting device for an upgrade...

[rhmorrison]

As another Jornada user I have to say that I would find it hard to live without the jog dial/wheel/lever. I mainly us it for reading ebooks (something I might spend anything up to a couple of hours a day doing) and find it much easier than trying to use the dpad.
I must agree wholeheartedly although I found the scroll wheel on my Jornada 525 (which is also on the 548) to be much better for paging than the rocker on the Jornada 568 but it sure beats the heck out of using the D-Pad. The Wheel was just easier to find and use than the rocker. I guess they had to make at least one change that wasn't an improvement.
:shocked!:

[davidspalding]

As seems to have been pointed out, those d-pads are NOT always designed to be easily used by the thumb when the pda is held one-handed. Even my Casio's (E-125) which might appear that way, results in an awkward "low choke" hold which would make it easy to drop the thing.

Jog dials, by design, are "thumbwheels." And unless the designer was a doofus, the dial will be situated to where the thumb naturally rests.

I think d-pad designers have this rigid expectation that user will hold the pda in one hand, and conscientiously operate the pad with index finger of the opposite hand. Duh. Don't these designers do any user testing in the field?

[Janak Parekh]

Jog dials, by design, are "thumbwheels." And unless the designer was a doofus, the dial will be situated to where the thumb naturally rests.
The fundamental problem with this, and with jogwheels in general, is dealing with handedness of people. If you put the jog wheel on one side, you're going to exclude at least 15-20% of the population (those who are the other-handed as well as those who happen to use a PDA in their other hand).

--janak

[disconnected]

The only time I use my iPAQ one-handed is while I'm eating. I've found that most restaurants use the same small squarish containers for sugar packets; they make excellant PDA supports. I just prop up my iPAQ on my left (in its Inooch case), and use my left hand to turn the page. This also allows me to use both hands for knife and fork as needed. :D

[Sslixtis]

The fundamental problem with this, and with jogwheels in general, is dealing with handedness of people. If you put the jog wheel on one side, you're going to exclude at least 15-20% of the population (those who are the other-handed as well as those who happen to use a PDA in their other hand).

--janak

So the solution is to not provide a Jog Dial so that 100% of the population is excluded? That's like saying that since some people are starving no one should be allowed to eat. I'm sorry for all the other-handed people out there, but you're probably used to it by now, you've been getting the shaft on handedness your whole life.

So can we please satisfy the other 80-85% of the population and put that tiny piece of plastic on the PDA please?!? :lol: Seriously though, a jog dial on either side would be fine with me, I have large enough hands to use either side, but I do insist on a jog dial of some sort the bottom center is just too inconvienent for eBooks. :cry:

[Janak Parekh]

The only time I use my iPAQ one-handed is while I'm eating. I've found that most restaurants use the same small squarish containers for sugar packets; they make excellant PDA supports. I just prop up my iPAQ on my left (in its Inooch case), and use my left hand to turn the page. This also allows me to use both hands for knife and fork as needed. :D
Heheheh... never thought of arranging my Pocket PC that way :lol:

So the solution is to not provide a Jog Dial so that 100% of the population is excluded? That's like saying that since some people are starving no one should be allowed to eat. I'm sorry for all the other-handed people out there, but you're probably used to it by now, you've been getting the shaft on handedness your whole life.
Not necessarily, just identifying a problem. The dpad is not as bad as you say it is -- I read ebooks with my dpad all the time (depends, I guess, on which Pocket PC you have). I guess my point is that it's not a killer feature in either way for me. ;)

--janak

[davidspalding]

Jog dials, by design, are "thumbwheels." And unless the designer was a doofus, the dial will be situated to where the thumb naturally rests.
The fundamental problem with this, and with jogwheels in general, is dealing with handedness of people. If you put the jog wheel on one side, you're going to exclude at least 15-20% of the population (those who are the other-handed as well as those who happen to use a PDA in their other hand).

--janak

You took the bait. Good for you! ;) Actually, calling it a "thumbwheel" was misleading. The placement of this gizmo on my Casio allows it to be twiddled by thumb in left hand, or index or "emotion" finger in my right hand. Yes, I do it both ways regularly. Again, something slightly better on the Casio E-1xx series than other PPCs before or since. </immodesty> But the later designs for center-placed d-pads (introduced by teh first iPaq I think?) improved things a bit.