18 days to PPC2003 release

[WillyG]

While we look forward to the release date, lets rant on another feature:
The smart minimize button.

[pocketpcdude1024]

I still don't see the big deal with the minimise button. If I want to close the program, I go to Start>Settings>Memory>Running Programs (or something like it ;) ) and close the program.

[hshortt]

So you prefer using 4 taps instead of 1... :)

If it has an X in the window it should close, if it has a _ in the window it should minimise. This is standard operating practice.

Cheerio

[pocketpcdude1024]

Perhaps Microsoft can include both an X and a _ in PPC2003 to keep everyone happy. With one app running on the screen, most of the time I want to minimise it, not close it.

BTW - Word and Excel should automatically save the files if they are closed. It's a real pain sometimes to be working on something and to close Word/Excel (PPC version) and have the document not save. :(

[rhmorrison]

...I go to Start>Settings>Memory>Running Programs (or something like it ;) ) and close the program.
If you don't even know what you do well enough to document it then you REALLY need to install WIS Bar (http://www.walkers.ne.jp/), IcBar (http://icbar.ictinus.com/icbarinfo.html), or GigaBar (http://www.gigabar.com). I personally use IcBar (http://icbar.ictinus.com/icbarinfo.html) because it is simple yet powerful. GigaBar (http://www.gigabar.com) is somewhat more complex but has every feature you could wish for.
:way to go:

[Duncan]

Or even vBar (tiny but does the job well) - sorry - lost the link...

[cslaughtermd]

The smart minimize function makes no sense to me unless you have a way to easily switch between open programs - which you can't!
I'm a wisbar guy, then I can app switch and close apps easily.
Microsoft still hasn't figured this out but there are plenty of 3rd party options!

[maximus]

OK, I see that there is going to be a daily poll now. Perhaps there should be a new title in this forum called "Master Pollster" :D

BTW, what happens if PPC2003 is delayed to december ? Are you still going to make daily polls until then ?

[delfuhd]

I definitely like it not closing the applications, cuz what would be the point of having the Alt+Tab program? that's what task managers are for, and if you're really that mad, get ICBar and skin the close button to actually close the program. It's as simple as that.

[smittyofdhs]

yes, PPC 2003 is SUPPOSE to be released soon, but that means nothing to the end-users. That just means it's being released to the manufacturers of the PPC devices. They could still take months tweaking the code to fit the actual device. Just because MS releases the code, doesn't mean it will even make it to your device. The manufacturer may decide not to support the changes, and if they do support it, they have the right to work on it as long as they want. It has to go thru coding, Q&A, alpha/beta testing, etc..... It's not like desktop software that comes directly from MS. So don't get all giddy about June 23rd......

and the smart minimize works just fine for me. I have the 64 meg upgrade on my SX56 and I rarely have slow down due to open apps.

[spursdude]

I think Microsoft should give the user the option whether the X does smart-minimize or actually closing the actual application. But I want it to actually close the program (thus I use icbar).

[smittyofdhs]

I think Microsoft should give the user the option whether the X does smart-minimize or actually closing the actual application. But I want it to actually close the program (thus I use icbar).


that's why we have 3rd party software, MS seems to leave holes that can be plugged by 3rd party software. Pocket Plus is a good fix for the close feature and it does not require skinning the taskbar.

[Pony99CA]

I voted for the Close button and a task switcher, but both options are flawed. :-)

The first option is flawed because, even if Microsoft does include a task switcher (which I think they should), you wouldn't be forced to use it. Just like you can use Mozilla in Windows, nothing prevents you from getting another task switcher that fits your needs better. (Whether anybody would create them if one was built-in is another issue, of course.)

By the way, many OEMs override some of the default settings applets (like Power) and replace them with their own. The task switcher could likely be replaced (or hidden), too.

The second option is flawed because how the X button operates is really independent of having a task switcher. I really don't care how the button operates if I have a good task switcher which allows me to close or minimize the application via tap-and-hold.

For example, iTask on my iPAQ 3870 does that job just fine.

Steve

[smittyofdhs]

to cut all this BS, all Microsoft should have done was put a different icon on the button. Instead of the X they should have put a down arrow and that way nobody would be bitching about it, everyone would just assume it's for minimizing only.....

or if they made the memory manager work right, that would have helped the issue. They could have included an option for the user to determine how many apps stay open at once, whether it be 1 app or 5 apps, that way the user could tell the OS, to close apps based on the user setting. Tillanosoft's small menu has this exact feature it it. You set how many apps are allowed to stay open.

I personally use Pocket Plus, but I have it setup just like the OS, to only minimize the apps. The benefit Pocket Plus gives me is that I can tap-n-hold and select "Close All" or "Close Inactive" and this keeps me from having to go into settings > memory to close apps. Not to mention it also provides me with repeating alarms/reminders and multi browser windows in PIE.

[Jason Dunn]

to cut all this BS, all Microsoft should have done was put a different icon on the button. Instead of the X they should have put a down arrow and that way nobody would be bitching about it, everyone would just assume it's for minimizing only...

Exactly! But therein lies the problem: they were arrogant to assume that they could take 10+ years of OS user interface design and take an icon that normally means close and change it to function in a different way. How many accidents do you think we'd have if one day all the red lights were changed to green? You can't mess with established iconography and not have people get angry about it. The Pocket PC team just doesn't get it, and we've been at their throats about it for over three years now.

[Kaber]

If Gigbar doesn't work with it, I won't be upgrading my iPAQs. Period.

[WillyG]

The first option is flawed because, even if Microsoft does include a task switcher (which I think they should), you wouldn't be forced to use it.
First, I tend to agree with you regarding both options. Keep in mind that i tried to push things to extremes here ;). The reason i used the exact wording, was to reflect common strongly held views of MS bashers.

The second option is flawed because how the X button operates is really independent of having a task switcher.
I admit i wasnt to lucky with that one. But the point was to make an option for those who wanted the (X) button do do what it does in other flavours of Windows and stress the need for a better task swicher. (after all, we are talking about a OS with multitasking capabilities)

*ops, guess i disclosed my view there* :|

[M@]

Why not:

- Tap minimises
- Tap and Hold = Close ( Perhaps Warning (Y/N) )

That makes more sense than cluttering up the screen

[ghostppc]

yes, PPC 2003 is SUPPOSE to be released soon, but that means nothing to the end-users. That just means it's being released to the manufacturers of the PPC devices. They could still take months...


I thought that PPC 2003 was the end user software. Isn't the software that's released to the OEM's the Win CE (whatever the name is) version of it?

[whatsnext?]

yes, PPC 2003 is SUPPOSE to be released soon, but that means nothing to the end-users. That just means it's being released to the manufacturers of the PPC devices. They could still take months tweaking the code to fit the actual device. Just because MS releases the code, doesn't mean it will even make it to your device. The manufacturer may decide not to support the changes, and if they do support it, they have the right to work on it as long as they want. It has to go thru coding, Q&A, alpha/beta testing, etc..... It's not like desktop software that comes directly from MS. So don't get all giddy about June 23rd......

and the smart minimize works just fine for me. I have the 64 meg upgrade on my SX56 and I rarely have slow down due to open apps.


is it possible that MS has released the code to hp and has let them tweak it? inside connections between hp and MS?


Doggoneit! i know that i am going to get flamed for this one.....
:onfire:

[Kati Compton]

I think M@'s right if the goal is to minimize screen clutter on the menu bar. But that still doesn't let you easily switch between running applications. I'd like a close button that really closes, and to the left of it, a minimize button that minimizes if tapped, and task switches if held down.

[smittyofdhs]

to cut all this BS, all Microsoft should have done was put a different icon on the button. Instead of the X they should have put a down arrow and that way nobody would be bitching about it, everyone would just assume it's for minimizing only...

Exactly! But therein lies the problem: they were arrogant to assume that they could take 10+ years of OS user interface design and take an icon that normally means close and change it to function in a different way. How many accidents do you think we'd have if one day all the red lights were changed to green? You can't mess with established iconography and not have people get angry about it. The Pocket PC team just doesn't get it, and we've been at their throats about it for over three years now.

You go Jason...hit them where it hurts.... oh wait.... we can't do that because the only place it hurts for MS is the pocketbook and we have already filled those with our money for these devices. Oh well, enough bitching may solve the issue one day but for now, thank god for SPB and all the other great 3rd party vendors out there making great software.

[Pony99CA]

to cut all this BS, all Microsoft should have done was put a different icon on the button. Instead of the X they should have put a down arrow and that way nobody would be bitching about it, everyone would just assume it's for minimizing only...
Exactly! But therein lies the problem: they were arrogant to assume that they could take 10+ years of OS user interface design and take an icon that normally means close and change it to function in a different way. How many accidents do you think we'd have if one day all the red lights were changed to green? You can't mess with established iconography and not have people get angry about it. The Pocket PC team just doesn't get it, and we've been at their throats about it for over three years now.
You'd think that Microsoft would have a UI group that knew this, too. When some of us complained to Alex Kac of Pocket Informant that the check mark icon in Alarm Notes popped up a menu in release 4.0 instead of just confirming the entry, he changed the icon in release 4.1. Why can't Microsoft do the same thing?

To be fair, didn't Microsoft argue that it wasn't the same icon, though? The Close action is an "X" in a square, while the Pocket PC's Smart Minimize action is an "X" in a circle. I think that's lame, though; smittyofdhs's suggestion makes a lot more sense.

Steve

[Kaber]

I just installed Resco File Explorer 2003 again with a fresh d/l from thier site...

Where the hell is the exit option!?!?!?!

Did I mention I love gigabar yet?

[Pony99CA]

I just installed Resco File Explorer 2003 again with a fresh d/l from thier site...

Where the hell is the exit option!?!?!?!

An Exit action violates Microsoft's user interface guidelines; if a developer wants Pocket PC certification, they can't have an Exit action. I'm guessing it's because Microsoft expects the Smart Minimize to do the job.

Personally, I think taking resonable control out of the user's hands is a stupid decision. Why shouldn't I be able to easily control if I want to minimize or close a program?

Steve