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View Full Version : Chasing the Wireless Dream? Warchalking/walking/driving - AN ETHICS POLL


Noel
05-01-2003, 08:20 PM
With so many more people with PDAs wirelessly enabled - it may be a fair time to wonder....


This is a true story.
It happened last week while setting up my new D-Link 614+ at home.
In preparation for detecting my router during install I had plugged my Socket CF into the Ax 5 and proceeded to plug in and start configuring.
I heard a noise... it was the WLAN Tools saying "BINGO!" Excellent Network Connection!
But, I hadn't even configured the 614+... plus it listed connection as "Linksys".

Then it dawned on me, then was confirmed as I approched the neighbours wall... they had a WLAN setup.

My first thought was GREAT! I can return the D-Link... and head outside with a piece of chalk...

Then I thought.... well, this is a great backup position in case of "emergency".

Then, putting the shoes on the other feet (I couldn't have better neighbours) I wondered if they were aware of their vulnerability, and if not, should I tell them. Even if they knew, perhaps choosing to forego WEP/WPA for enhanced performance, should I inform them that I (and maybe others) could swim in their stream whenever...

Maybe I should offer to help setup encryption and swap keys with them???


So, what do you think?!

Kati Compton
05-01-2003, 08:23 PM
So, what do you think?!

I'd tell them they have an open network.

EcS
05-01-2003, 08:34 PM
Agreed. Tell them. Especially since they're good neighbors.

It's more than just bandwidth, it's an open hole into their network where their computers can possibly be compromised, zombied, or... whatever. Be a friend. It's good karma. Especially when you live next to them.

PetiteFlower
05-01-2003, 08:39 PM
Yup, definitely tell them. Why should they pay for your internet connection? Plus anyone in the neighborhood can now access their computers. Show them how to encrypt, and definitely keep your networks separate....maybe set them up on different channels, to prevent interference. If you like these people, why is this even a question?

trachy
05-01-2003, 09:10 PM
And don't forget to have them implement MAC address control too.

Pony99CA
05-01-2003, 09:19 PM
To answer the poll question, WarAnything is legal or illegal depending on the circumstances. Simply discovering an open WiFi network isn't illegal, as that could happen quite by accident (as you proved). Using that network would probably be illegal unless it was intended to be open to the public.

My philosophy is that if you don't know the network is intentionally open, don't use it. It's just like an open door on a house -- if you don't know that it's OK to walk in (an open house, a neighborhood party, etc.), don't go in.

Steve

JoeMoon
05-01-2003, 10:56 PM
I think you should print flyers up and give them to all the other neighbors!


For those who couldn't tell - that was a joke of course...

Joe...

trachy
05-01-2003, 11:04 PM
I think you should print flyers up and give them to all the other neighbors!


For those who couldn't tell - that was a joke of course...

Joe...

Troll. ;-)

Steven Cedrone
05-02-2003, 02:56 AM
I would tell them, and offer to help lock down the network(as best they can) if they didn't understand how to do it...

It's the neighborly thing to do... :wink:

Steve

BTW, warwalking is harmless...

I'm not sure how I feel about warchalking and documenting open networks for others to exploit. I tend to think that if someone illegally uses a network that you have uncovered and documented, you are just as guilty as they are...

My .02

Abba Zabba
05-02-2003, 06:24 AM
Tell your neighbors it's the right thing to do :wink: Think about it if the shoe was on the other foot :?:

Janak Parekh
05-02-2003, 05:07 PM
Then it dawned on me, then was confirmed as I approched the neighbours wall... they had a WLAN setup.
So, the NYC analogue... I was having trouble with one PC that was in marginal signal range of an AP in a office... so, for debugging, I told the Orinoco software to do a scan. It found 7 open (SSID broadcast, at least) access points. 8O Holy interference batman!

(I ended up getting an external antenna and repositioning it, for the moment; I didn't want to see the other networks. But the 2.4GHz band is getting awfully crowded...)

--janak

xoiph
05-05-2003, 05:58 PM
Every morning I stop into a Starbucks shop to have my daily intake of social behavior and caffiene. While trying to connect to their network one day, I accidently connected to the the Apple Store's network, which is open for Mac users stopping by with their iBooks or whatever. Well, I configured my iPaq to recognize the Apple Store's network, because it was free. After a while I felt a little guilty and walked into the Mac Shack to tell them their network was open. The manager said it was an open network and he didn't mind me accessing it from my iPaq. In fact they were pretty impressed (this was a few months ago, before the Tungsten) with the Pocket PC. Yeah, so anyways I guess I don't feel bad if it's an open network.

Pony99CA
05-05-2003, 06:41 PM
Every morning I stop into a Starbucks shop to have my daily intake of social behavior and caffiene. While trying to connect to their network one day, I accidently connected to the the Apple Store's network, which is open for Mac users stopping by with their iBooks or whatever. Well, I configured my iPaq to recognize the Apple Store's network, because it was free. After a while I felt a little guilty and walked into the Mac Shack to tell them their network was open. The manager said it was an open network and he didn't mind me accessing it from my iPaq. In fact they were pretty impressed (this was a few months ago, before the Tungsten) with the Pocket PC. Yeah, so anyways I guess I don't feel bad if it's an open network.
The important thing is that you asked, and they said they didn't mind. If you just kept using it without asking, that would be wrong because you wouldn't know if they intended it to be open or just hadn't configured it properly.

Steve

PetiteFlower
05-05-2003, 07:40 PM
Well, considering it was at a computer store, it's not too likely that they weren't aware that it was open :) But, I agree it's still better to ask.

JoeMoon
05-05-2003, 08:28 PM
Every morning I stop into a Starbucks shop to have my daily intake of social behavior and caffiene. While trying to connect to their network one day, I accidently connected to the the Apple Store's network, which is open for Mac users stopping by with their iBooks or whatever. Well, I configured my iPaq to recognize the Apple Store's network, because it was free. After a while I felt a little guilty and walked into the Mac Shack to tell them their network was open. The manager said it was an open network and he didn't mind me accessing it from my iPaq. In fact they were pretty impressed (this was a few months ago, before the Tungsten) with the Pocket PC. Yeah, so anyways I guess I don't feel bad if it's an open network.
The important thing is that you asked, and they said they didn't mind. If you just kept using it without asking, that would be wrong because you wouldn't know if they intended it to be open or just hadn't configured it properly.

Steve

Ok, I agree that hacking onto someone else's network is not the right thing to do. But I don't think we should take it as far as asking the local geek store? Think about it - if the computer shop has an open network - don't you think they have enough intelligence, experience and knowledge to know they have an open network?!

I agree about letting the home user know. The home user is not up on the technology, the security and the lingo... They need the mercy... But when the computer industry itself leaves its butt uncovered... Well, need I say more?!

That's my .02...

Joe...

Pony99CA
05-06-2003, 01:14 AM
Ok, I agree that hacking onto someone else's network is not the right thing to do. But I don't think we should take it as far as asking the local geek store? Think about it - if the computer shop has an open network - don't you think they have enough intelligence, experience and knowledge to know they have an open network?!
I think PetiteFlower and you may be overestimating the level of knowledge at the typical computer store. :-D

Steve

Abba Zabba
05-06-2003, 08:42 AM
Ok, I agree that hacking onto someone else's network is not the right thing to do. But I don't think we should take it as far as asking the local geek store? Think about it - if the computer shop has an open network - don't you think they have enough intelligence, experience and knowledge to know they have an open network?!
I think PetiteFlower and you may be overestimating the level of knowledge at the typical computer store. :-D

Steve

Definately Why not just go down to your local Best Buy or Circuit City and find out some information on their products. I'm pretty sure you'll get some off the wall answers :D

JoeMoon
05-06-2003, 02:03 PM
Ok, I agree that hacking onto someone else's network is not the right thing to do. But I don't think we should take it as far as asking the local geek store? Think about it - if the computer shop has an open network - don't you think they have enough intelligence, experience and knowledge to know they have an open network?!
I think PetiteFlower and you may be overestimating the level of knowledge at the typical computer store. :-D

Steve

Definately Why not just go down to your local Best Buy or Circuit City and find out some information on their products. I'm pretty sure you'll get some off the wall answers :D

That is my point exactly... I spent 6 years and alot of money to be "educated" in the computer industry and about 20 years working in it. I finally got fed up and walked away when places like that started hiring "un-educated" computer people, called them "certified" and sent them to solicate my clients. Of course, the nightmares started when my clients starting doing business with them because of the cheap rates and then would call me to have the problems they created fixed.

Competition is good - I agree. But not at the cost of quality. We have seen it with the hardware and we have seen it with ALL aspects of service.

I don't believe I have any sympathy for these institutions. I wouldn't be surprised if their open ended network was actually linked to something that should be a bit more secure.

Joe...