The First Time You'll Brag About How Small Yours Is

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://minipc.vulcan.com/default.asp' target='_blank'>http://minipc.vulcan.com/default.asp</a><br /><br /></div>"The Mini-PC is a concept from Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen’s Vulcan, Inc. that delivers desktop computing to highly mobile professionals and consumers in a form factor that can be carried effortlessly everywhere. Unlike many other ultraportable devices, the Mini-PC is a complete PC with sufficient internal storage, processing power, and display resolution to effectively run Microsoft Windows XP and its applications. This solution eliminates tedious data synchronization common to less capable PDA devices while retaining familiar PC support mechanisms used by corporate IT staff."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/1.jpg" /> <br /><br />Wow. 8O What a cool little device! I've seen some small laptops before, but this takes the cake! 5.4” x 4” x 1.1” and about 1 lb. In addition to built-in USB 2.0, Firewire, Bluetooth and 802.11b, it will also come with either GPRS or 1xRTT support. Talk about a wireless wonderland! No mention of CPU speed other than "x86 compatible", so I'm guessing either Transmeta or a low-power VIA C3 CPU. 20 GB hard drive and 256 MB of RAM are respectable, although I'd personally want double of both. All in all, a very innovative little package for $1999 US. At first I thought that was really expensive, but when I considered all the built-in wireless technologies, it's reasonable.<br /><br />This is the first "mini XP" device that I've seen that might actually be functional enough to use, especially if ergonomically it's possible to hold it with two hands and use your thumbs to type. Will devices like this spell the end of the Pocket PC? I've seen quite a few top industry people start to use a Smartphone and combine it with a small laptop, and they're in heaven - and a Pocket PC isn't part of the equation. What do you think?

[theone3]

ah.. but does it play doom 3? :lol: 8O :oops: :wink:

in relation to the end of PPC;
not 'till it runs tablet PC ed. and the price drops to $300US, But, eventually, PPC's will die, yes, like the HPC and the Newton, and the Psion etc.. (and nearly palm 8O )

:cry:

[ombu]

"Well, the phone number is ... wait a second, XP is loading and it loads faster than 98 or Me, O.K., here we go, I'm opening Outlook right now, yep, it's ....." :roll:

If this would happen, some PPC behaviour is needed, I think...

Regards.

[Dom]

Where can I buy it ? It looks fantastic !
Dom

[tedson]

You can already buy a U3 from Sony. http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml

[Dom]

Off to get one. Thanks !
Dom

[jizmo]

You can already buy a U3 from Sony. http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.html

Once again for Japanese markets only? Do they really have something against making money or what is the point of not having these products available worldwide?

Both are incredible devices and yes, the future of handheld computers seems to go this way, if the price is right.

/jizmo

[guinness]

You can already buy a U3 from Sony. http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml

I know that the prices are high because it's imported, but (starting at) $1700 is ton of money for it though...coolness factor is priceless.

[Janak Parekh]

"Well, the phone number is ... wait a second, XP is loading and it loads faster than 98 or Me, O.K., here we go, I'm opening Outlook right now, yep, it's ....." :roll:
Well, the theory would be that a Smartphone would take care of that task. Choices, choices... :)

--janak

[Tim Allen]

Yeah, I think this kind of thing plus a Smartphone could be the perfect combination for me. Price needs to come down, though.

[Dom]

$1250 on Ebay ;0)
Dom

[Duncan]

Running WinXP on a screen that size, with that type of keyboard, low battery life etc. is like trying to drive an F1 car on a Go-Kart track - it can be done but only with many frustrations and compromises and quickly you realise wrong car (OS) for that kind of track (screen/keyboard/battery).

I have no doubt we will see, in time, PDAs with Pocket PC OS and built-in modules that allow them to run full XP when attached to a monitor and keyboard - but these mini-PCs are doomed to failure because they are trying to be two incompatible things at once...

Having used a Sony Vaio CG1MP (for a while) I can tell you that even that size of screen was irritating to use, the Transmeta processor didn't allow the large and heavy battery to give more than 2 hours of use (at the very best) and the keyboard was more like a Psion S5 - but still made real typing more awkward than was worthwhile!

[Sslixtis]

Until/Unless it has a the new Pentium M that comes in the Centrino, I'll pass. Centrino in the Vulcan form factor seems like a marriage made in Heaven to me! :angel: I wouldn't even care what it cost, I'd have to have one!

[sfjlittel]

Bluetooth is not built in by default, it is an expansion option. But wifi is built in and that is what matters most :D

[Gordo]

You can already buy a U3 from Sony. http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.html

Once again for Japanese markets only? Do they really have something against making money or what is the point of not having these products available worldwide?

Both are incredible devices and yes, the future of handheld computers seems to go this way, if the price is right.

/jizmo

Try Japan Direct, they will ship to the US.
http://www.japan-direct.com/cartitem.asp?prodid=394

[Dom]

"Running WinXP on a screen that size, with that type of keyboard, low battery life etc. is like trying to drive an F1 car on a Go-Kart track"

Well I drive my Ferrari 348 around Liverpool LOL which I guess is the same thing! Thing is, as a developer, the screensize is not an issue. I want to write applications for this using full blown .NET. I believe in simple interfaces (check out my Mastersoft Money) but I want real power and this may be the answer ! Battery life would be my only real concern. As soon as mine arrives I'll benchmark a .NET app on it compared to the Pocket PC ;0)))
Dom

[trachy]

Their specs say that the OS and Office are in the BIOS. Does that mean that it's an 'instant on' device like PPC? If you have to wait for the thing to boot up off of disk nobody will buy it.

[disconnected]

I can't see it replacing my Pocket PC, which is always with me, but I definitely want a small, lightweight tablet. I plan to replace my 3 pound 366 Sony next year; a ten inch screen, a decent battery, a little more power, and about two pounds in weight, and I'd buy one. One thing I don't like about my current Sony is that the AC adapter/cord seems to weigh half as much as the laptop; I hope that's not true of the new ones.

[Foo Fighter]

Cool concept, but I can't imagine this would be a practical everyday tool. Battery life HAS to be atrocious.

Still, I would love to have the power of a desktop PC in the palm of my hand. Just a Pie in the sky fantasy. 0X

[rzanology]

I don't know maaan...this is a though one. 2 things really stand out here. The first is...I can never put that thing in a case and put it on my waist, and you can ask any one who knows me, my ipaq never leaves my side. The second is...dvd. its hard to look at something like that and not thing about watching dvds on it. Of course you can argue that i can do it the same way i do with my ipaq, but if im paying 2 grand for something that carries the "pc" label...i want some kind of cd-rom drive in there. But me being me...i will now go on my merry way to purchase one....might take me a month or two, but you will see me in Manhattan walking around doing ignorance :). Oh...one more thing that worries me is, its the first generation....as we all know the first generation of anything usually isn't the best, is this really worth buying now?

[danmanmayer]

It does look amazing but it wont be the end of pocket pcs. It may be the end of the really high end devices. If you want so much power that your spending almost $1000 on a pocket pc this device simply will have more functionality. Allthough i am not sure what i think about loosing my touch screen for the massive keyboard. Also the way things are set up looks like it wouldn't be that great for gaming. But i would make some sacrafices to have all that wireless power along with the ability to run all my applications.

[daS]

You can already buy a U3 from Sony. http://www.dynamism.com/u3/index.shtml
Sony = Memory Stick = :pukeface:

Plus the U3 is much bigger than this machine.

As for the Vulcan machine itself: I also think that this would have a limited market. The Handheld PC failed to get market share because of the perception that the tiny keyboard made it less useful. Now you add the lack of instant on and applications that were designed for much larger screens, and you have a device that will have few takers.

Still, I personally think it's cool. :way to go:

[dazz]

The Handheld PC failed to get market share because of the perception that the tiny keyboard made it less useful.

Wrong. HPC's have not made it mostly because they are almost as much as a notebook but do not run Windows apps. If keyboard was any issue at all it was for a very small number of people.

I still say that if the HPC was a reasonable price it would catch on and would be a much better solution than this unit. As has been mentioned, this does not address battery life and instant on.

I think I will always want a PocketPC.

Darren

[HTK]

dazz is right
Im a fan of handhelds, but the lack of software and compatibility with my regular windows apps made me trade my old handheld for a notebook.

[daS]

The Handheld PC failed to get market share because of the perception that the tiny keyboard made it less useful.

Wrong. HPC's have not made it mostly because they are almost as much as a notebook but do not run Windows apps. If keyboard was any issue at all it was for a very small number of people.

Well I strongly disagree with you and this is an issue I have followed very closely for quite some time.

I have been in the handheld industry since 1994 when I started Shier Systems & Software (www.shier.com) to provide software, accessories and application support for the HP Palmtops (the 95LX/100LX/200LX). From there, we transitioned into supporting Windows CE and of course the Pocket PC.

Windows CE devices were generally price competitive with other handhelds ($400-$600) and were far less expensive than the laptops of the same era. However, the popular press (including technology related magazines) constantly said that they were not useful because the keyboards were too small.

Never mind the fact that the devices solved problems that larger machines could not due to such features as being available all the time, instant on, battery life, etc. (All the features we Pocket PC users know and love.)

The little keyboards were constantly being sighted as major problems. Only after a few years of users fooling themselves into thinking that Graffiti was easy and reliable have small keyboards started to make a slow comeback.

In the meantime, due to the very limited market, the prices for Handheld PCs inched up ($600-$1000) while laptop priced dropped. So now, your price comparison is true, but it wasn't at the time that the market rejected the H/PC.

[ExtremeSIMS]

Their specs say that the OS and Office are in the BIOS. Does that mean that it's an 'instant on' device like PPC? If you have to wait for the thing to boot up off of disk nobody will buy it.

That's:

"Microsoft Windows XP and Office^M
BIOS with full power savings modes"

[daS]

dazz is right
Im a fan of handhelds, but the lack of software and compatibility with my regular windows apps made me trade my old handheld for a notebook.
When the Pocket PC (actually the Palm-Sized PC) first appeared, there were many more applications for the Handheld PC than for the P/PC.

If you were expecting the Handheld PC to be a laptop replacement, then it was the wrong tool for the job. And that's the same trap that most reviewers fell into.

But the lack of a built-in typable keyboard is my major gripe with the Pocket PC. Certainly the Pocket PC is not a laptop replacement, but it's useless for anything that needs more than the most trivial data input.

On the other hand, I wrote almost all my magazine articles using a Palmtop (200LX) or Handheld PC (HP 3xx, 680, 720). I've also designed web sites using html and even wrote a 130 page user's manual - complete with formatting (using Ventura Publisher tags within a standard text editor) on a 200LX.

As I noted in my previous post, the instant on, battery life and size made the H/PC the right tool for many applications that the smallest notebook couldn't handle. For example, I worked with a few different medical application that needed a keyboard, but also needed to be used while walking around a hospital or medical office. I don't know of anything else at any price that can do that job. (External keyboards for the Pocket PC all require a flat surface.)

Okay, I know I'm talking about niche markets here, but there are lots of them. But just as the press has given the Pocket PC a bad rap, the H/PC was killed off by perception.

[dazz]

daS,

I agree that perception was the culprit in the decline of the HPC but it truly is not because of the keyboards.

You are really referring to the keyboards on the HPC 1.x and 2.0 devices. I had a couple different models that had the tiny keys that really were no good for touch typing. In the later models the keyboards had very good keyboards that were anywhere from 75 to 95% of full size and felt almost like laptops.

You also mention the pricing being between $400 and $600. That was really more on the first gen HPC’s. The ones that came along with the larger keyboards were closer to $800+.

I am still using my IBM z50 here and there and the keyboard is phenomenal.

Now, I'm sure you will fall back on your assertion that it was a “perception” of the cramped keyboards that killed HPC. If you take a look at the nay Sayers you will see they only complained about the lack of software and that they could buy a cheap notebook for a few hundred more.

In these forums there are a TON of people that have said if they could get a good HPC for about $500 they would.

Darren

[Fishie]

I want a Sigmarion3 or the new Mobilepro HPC, drooooooooooooool.

[daS]

You are really referring to the keyboards on the HPC 1.x and 2.0 devices. I had a couple different models that had the tiny keys that really were no good for touch typing. In the later models the keyboards had very good keyboards that were anywhere from 75 to 95% of full size and felt almost like laptops.

Well it appears that you agreed with the general press.

All I can tell you is that the HP 200LX was one of the most popular handheld computers ever made. I could touch type on its keyboard - which was smaller than any of the H/PCs. The biggest problem with the early H/PC keyboards was not their size, but the poor quality of the keys.

[thenikjones]

You are really referring to the keyboards on the HPC 1.x and 2.0 devices. I had a couple different models that had the tiny keys that really were no good for touch typing. In the later models the keyboards had very good keyboards that were anywhere from 75 to 95% of full size and felt almost like laptops.

Well it appears that you agreed with the general press.

All I can tell you is that the HP 200LX was one of the most popular handheld computers ever made. I could touch type on its keyboard - which was smaller than any of the H/PCs. The biggest problem with the early H/PC keyboards was not their size, but the poor quality of the keys.
Looking at this device, I was strunk by how basic the keyboard looked. The best keyboard on PDAs I've used (excluding Stowaways etc) was the Psion 5/5mx, with the Jornada 7xx coming second. Both had the "full coverage" approach. Why have the designers gone "retro"?

[daS]

Looking at this device, I was strunk by how basic the keyboard looked. The best keyboard on PDAs I've used (excluding Stowaways etc) was the Psion 5/5mx, with the Jornada 7xx coming second. Both had the "full coverage" approach. Why have the designers gone "retro"?

Well the best handheld keyboard I ever used was on the 200LX. I was a much faster typist on it than on the Jornada 720.

When the keyboard is smaller than full size, I tend to find that my fingers hit also hit the keys above or below the one I'm typing. While the 200LX keys looked like a toy, they were very effective since they had so much space between them. If the key pitch is the same, and the "feel" is right, what does it matter if the key itself is small?

[Skoobouy]

Well, I don't care what any of you guys say. :wink: I think I just found the machine with which to upgrade my Jornada 567. Look; Pocket PC is getting some great hardware enhancements, exemplified by the Toshiba e750 and iPaq 2200. Wonderful; and Palm Inc isn't doing too shabby either. But--based on a recent discussion on the difficulty of breaking the Pocket PC QVGA barrier, and the everpresent difficulties of using a Palm OS machine--I feel like this device has come out of Heaven to let the lions slumber peacefully with the sheep, if you know what I mean.

If anyone here has seen my old post, http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11373&highlight= , "Thinking about the ideal WinCE Device," they'll know why I've almost shorted my keyboard with saliva by now. This is the best news I've seen on PPCThoughts for weeks!

[jlp]

it's strange that nobody ever mentionned here the OQO or the "secret" HP Ipaq that's a PPC with an integrated fullsize keyboard (a Stowaway XP apparently).

And given the fact it looks quite advanced in the prototype stage, it looks like HP would come with it very soon.

Also there's a company that's making a PPCPE smartphone that integrates a 640x480 (full VGA) screen, so it looks like breaking the QVGA barrier is possible - that is unless they diplay at QVA resolution.

Also that would be awesome if the Vulcan had a screen that you could rotate and close back with screen facing up à la Toshiba Convertible Tablet PC (Portégé 3500) 8)

http://home.urbanet.ch/urba4768/div/Toshiba_TabletPC.gif

[daS]

it's strange that nobody ever mentionned here the OQO or the "secret" HP Ipaq that's a PPC with an integrated fullsize keyboard (a Stowaway XP apparently).
Well the OQO has been vaporware for a about year now and the "secret" HP machine was only a lab toy that some marketing guy filmed to show off HP's engineering. But it's not real. I think you had it spot on when you said it had a Stowaway XP keyboard, but I don't think it was actually part of the unit, just sort of stuck on for the video.

In any case, I'm sorry to say that I have it on good word that this machine will never see the light of day. :cry:

[theone3]

"Well, the phone number is ... wait a second, XP is loading and it loads faster than 98 or Me, O.K., here we go, I'm opening Outlook right now, yep, it's ....." :roll:

If this would happen, some PPC behaviour is needed, I think...

Regards.I hear ya, can't wait for flash rom on devices like these :rock on dude!:

[theone3]

Cool concept, but I can't imagine this would be a practical everyday tool. Battery life HAS to be atrocious.
not true.. as the screen is inversely proportional to battery life, expect it to be about 3-5 Hours.

[Necrobard]

Let me drop a word, too ;)

For sure; there are LOT of niches within handhelds market (read: PPCs, HPCs and ultraportable PCs, like Vulcan). But for me, there are only two (maybe three) of them that are worth mentioning on the large scale:

1) A PDA. Criteria: Small (can be held and somewhat operated by one hand), NO moving parts (microdrive lacks everyday toughness, 4 me), long battery life. Main objectives - basic data management, entertainment, remote data access. No or thumb keyboard in favor of the size.

2) A MOBILE computer. Criteria: Real work on-the-go. Comfortable data input with full-scaled keyboard. Full support for "desktop" apps. Massive text data input and advanced data management ( really LARGE databases, 4 example). Graphics&Video (yes, I watched videos on my Axim - but it's something of an extremal sport). Movement not-so-far from the car or AC outlet (eager to take your laptop with you onto a mountain trip, eh? ;) )

3) A smaller but noticable group of developers-on-the go. Main criteria 4 them - COMPATIBILITY, whatever it is, a handheld or a PC. The thing they need is field testing - not comfort or "fast draw" uses.

For the 1st group Vulcan lacks almost everything size, durability (HDD onboard), fast start and long battery run.
For the 2nd group it lacks comfortable keyboard and the screen of decent size - YES, i do type enormous volumes of text on my Dell's virtual keybord sometimes, but, given an opportunity, will switch to my ThinkPad with it gorgeous keyboard. My previous notebook was a Toshiba Libretto 50CT bought for it's compartibility and size - but then I realized that doing WORK on it was anything but comfortable due to it's cramped keyboard an small screen. I don't think that Vulcan's keys are way more comfortable than my former Libretto's.

So we got... yes, the 3rd group, it seems. But it is way, way smaller than the former ones. And, push me, but some people from this group will prefer something a bit large but a bit comfortable, like Asus S200 (Don't like it's keyboard, too ;) )

All to all, it seems that Vulcan will occupy a rathe small niche market, as a light and portable field testing tool and, for sure, a cool gadget - but little more than this.

Everything above is IMHO, of course.

[krisbrown]

Here's the law, the smaller the device, the more difficult it is to type and read the screen.

It's the endless pay-off against size and usability.
We can't (yet) change our visual resolution or the size of our fingers.
Keep shrinking the laptop down until it's unusable, then some bright spark will bring out a slightly bigger one for the 'serious' business man.

Typing is (for most) slow, and requires a stable place to do it.
We really do need to move away from manual text input.

[jlp]

Well my mentioning of the OQO was just to talk about the category: a PDA sized device that has desktop capabilities.

It's only a matter of time, hopefully short, that manufacturers will bring us these kind of devices. Toshiba, Intel and IBM (AntelopeTech bought a licence from them to build their MetaPad) are all working on such PDA sized PCs.

3 years ago Toshiba worked on this prototype:
http://home.urbanet.ch/urba4768/div/ToshibaDynasheet(4img).jpg

Now they are reportedly working on an OQO type TabletPC.

Well these 3 companies know what they are doing I'd say.

Now concerning the "secret" HP PPC with integrated keyboard, I don't really understand why they wouldn't market it, especially given the fact that litterally millions of people want a keybord for those palm sized PDAs: ThinkOutside sold their first million Stowaway in only ten months and there are now about a dozen different models on the market today (and that's not counting the thumbboards).

So a PPC that integrates the best of them is bound to be a success.

And related to the instant on feature, one of the requirements for a Tablet PC is a wake up time less than one second, making it practically instant on. And all the HP Omnibook from the 325 up to the 800 all had instant on features; I had the first and the last. In fact on these you didn't have any way to turn them off completely except by shutting Windows down, and the unique On/Off button was in fact performing nothing else than suspend/resume functions.

[daS]

Now concerning the "secret" HP PPC with integrated keyboard, I don't really understand why they wouldn't market it, especially given the fact that litterally millions of people want a keybord for those palm sized PDAs:
I think that HP would market such a machine if they could actually make one. However, I believe that it was never more than a mechanical model: Take a Pocket PC and stick a Stowaway on the side for a photo, but it may not have actually be electrically connected or even attached in any way that would hold up to real use. That's what I mean by a design lab toy. Just because we saw it in a video, doesn't mean it was real.

Of course, I agree that such a machine would be great! So I hope HP is working on making that concept a real product.

[rhmorrison]

3 years ago Toshiba worked on this prototype:
http://home.urbanet.ch/urba4768/div/ToshibaDynasheet(4img).jpg
WOW, I want one NOW!!

But until such a device is really available (and with the new display technologies that will soon be ready for production this should be possible) I will stick with my Jornada 568 with StowAway keyboard.

I need a 'real' keyboard with 19 mm spacing and tactile feedback.
I wouldn't even buy one of the small Sony laptops for the same reason, the keys are too close together for me to touch type on.

IMHO.