ViewSonic V37 Announced

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=query_displaynews&q=BLUETOOTH&sym=&doc_id=NR20030319290.2_d8600011cf7594bb">http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=query_displaynews&q=BLUETOOTH&sym=&doc_id=NR20030319290.2_d8600011cf7594bb</a><br /><br />"Pocket PC V37 - ViewSonic's new Pocket PC features .NET Compact Framework pre-installed and a 400MHz processor, along with 64MB of ROM and 64MB (36.45 user accessible) SDRAM. An optional SDIO WiFi card will be made available for the V37 shortly after product launch. "<br /><br />No pictures or other details were given. Given that this is another 64MB RAM device with 36MB available, it appears to be NAND ROM. The .NET Compact isn't <i>that</i> large, so I don't understand the 64MB ROM. You can't have a file store in a NAND ROM like you can in the NOR ROMs of other devices. Perhaps the specs here aren't 100% accurate. In any event, it is great to see a second device by ViewSonic. :way to go:

[Sheynk]

uh....so now that palms are increasing in standard storage..... the PPCs are decreasing? I dont get it....36.5 mbs ... thats nothing.....thats an MP3 with 22mins worth of class lecture recordings at lowest quality

[Janak Parekh]

You can't have a file store in a NAND ROM like you can in the NOR ROMs of other devices.
Actually, you can. The only limitation is that due to NAND's performance and reliability limitations, you can't execute machine instructions (i.e., code) directly from NAND.

CompactFlash products often have NAND (http://www.flash-memory.org/compactflash.html), apparently. (Here's a second link (http://www.mittoni.com/compactflash/index.html)). I think the technology is not explained fully, which is a shame.

--janak

[Cracknell]

Well at least from V37 we know h1910 is technically upgradable to .net.

Of course that could also translate to $30 shipping and handling, 3 months wait, and numerous crazy run around. heh... let's hope not.

[Ed Hansberry]

You can't have a file store in a NAND ROM like you can in the NOR ROMs of other devices.
Actually, you can. The only limitation is that due to NAND's performance and reliability limitations, you can't execute machine instructions (i.e., code) directly from NAND.

CompactFlash products often have NAND (http://www.flash-memory.org/compactflash.html), apparently. (Here's a second link (http://www.mittoni.com/compactflash/index.html)). I think the technology is not explained fully, which is a shame.

--janak
So how do you access files? Are they written like in a flashROM but then copied out? I know NAND is flashable, but can Excel write to it?

[Janak Parekh]

So how do you access files? Are they written like in a flashROM but then copied out? I know NAND is flashable, but can Excel write to it?
Apparently NAND can be directly "serially accessed", much like a disk-like medium. I'm not an expert, but I did a little reading last weekend. NAND is much cheaper than NOR (which we know), but places various limitations on what one can and cannot do. There is a special controller for NAND flash that makes it appear like a block device. This prevents the processor from fetching instructions directly as it would with NOR ROM (and that's why the code is copied out), but the OS can presumably write a use to work with the controller and make it appear like a disk - much like CF (which uses NAND plus a controller).

I eventually hope to know enough to write an essay on it, but I'm not an EE major, so it'll take me a little time. Anyone else willing to take up the challenge? ;)

Well at least from V37 we know h1910 is technically upgradable to .net.
Not yet. The h1910 has 16MB of ROM. The V37 has more than that, and it's not clear how the ROM is setup (the core OS must be copied out, but who knows what's happening with the other 32MB). We're also referring not to CE .NET, but the .NET Runtime, AFAICT.

--janak

[CodeSurge]

Cool!

Does this mean that the SDIO Wi-Fi card will be compatible with the V35 too?

[CodeSurge]

You can't have a file store in a NAND ROM like you can in the NOR ROMs of other devices.
Actually, you can. The only limitation is that due to NAND's performance and reliability limitations, you can't execute machine instructions (i.e., code) directly from NAND.

CompactFlash products often have NAND (http://www.flash-memory.org/compactflash.html), apparently. (Here's a second link (http://www.mittoni.com/compactflash/index.html)). I think the technology is not explained fully, which is a shame.

--janak
So how do you access files? Are they written like in a flashROM but then copied out? I know NAND is flashable, but can Excel write to it?

Yes, you still have that user-accessible ROM space.
The V35 has about 5MB of it for backups and stuff.
I'm pretty sure Excel can write to it.

[blurg]

According to this article (http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=9695&category=main) on neowin.net (http://www.neowin.net), if you register Microsoft® Visual Studio® .NET 2003 or an MSDN Subscription on this (https://vstudio.joleschgroup.com/) site, you will recieve a free Viewsonic V37.

Sounds good.

[Pony99CA]

Actually, you can. The only limitation is that due to NAND's performance and reliability limitations, you can't execute machine instructions (i.e., code) directly from NAND.

What reliability limitations? If it's not reliable, how can it be used to store data?


CompactFlash products often have NAND (http://www.flash-memory.org/compactflash.html), apparently. (Here's a second link (http://www.mittoni.com/compactflash/index.html)). I think the technology is not explained fully, which is a shame.
If some CompactFlash products use NAND, that implies programs don't run there. That would seem to imply that executing a program installed on CF or SD forces the OS to copy it to system RAM first.

That makes sense, I guess, as it's just like executing a program from a disk drive, but I tend to think of CF and SD as RAM.

Steve

[n4cer]

The .NET Compact Framework is now available for download from Microsoft.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=78974b4d-1bc6-4f29-8bd5-5ad5a37c7408&DisplayLang=en

System Requirements
Supported Operating Systems: Windows 2000, Windows 2000 Service Pack 2, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP

Supported Device Operating Systems: Pocket PC 2000, Pocket PC 2002, Windows CE .NET 4.1 and higher

[jizmo]

Was Viewsonic's screen 3,5" or 3,8"?

Anyhow, it looks like this might very well be my next PDA. Viewsonics are very hard to find in Europe, hopefully Viewsonic will bring them over here too, I think they'd to quite well.

I'm spending the next summer in Australia. Anybody know is the situation with Viewsonics any better there?

/jizmo

[Mr. PPC]

Was Viewsonic's screen 3,5" or 3,8"?

I'm spending the next summer in Australia. Anybody know is the situation with Viewsonics any better there?

/jizmo

I haven't seen a Viewsonic model here in Sydney yet. The 1910 was just officaly released this week, haven't seen it on shelf yet though.

[heov]

the toshiba e750 also has an extra 32MB of NAND flash for storage.

So this is how the memory on the v37 is going to be setup IMO.

64MB ram, of which only 36MB is available.
64MB of ROM, ~48MB of ROM disk space to the user, where you can store all your mp3s, backups, etc.

That's not that bad. You can store all your programs to the NAND disk, and all your DATA to the SD card, and leave your RAM completely free!

[Janak Parekh]

What reliability limitations? If it's not reliable, how can it be used to store data?
Again, I'm not an expert on this (yet); but apparently NAND degrades over time, and sometimes even when reading/writing, which is why you need a controller to do error-checking and such, and need to abstract it like a block device. There are also specialized filesystems to provide extra checking, apparently. I'd do the research now, but I'm supposed to be researching in my research field. ;)

If some CompactFlash products use NAND, that implies programs don't run there. That would seem to imply that executing a program installed on CF or SD forces the OS to copy it to system RAM first.
That's what always happens with SD/CF -- they're block devices, which you can't do a direct processor instruction fetch from. NOR ROM (and RAM) are the only ones where the image is not copied -- they're direct memory-addressed devices.

That makes sense, I guess, as it's just like executing a program from a disk drive, but I tend to think of CF and SD as RAM.
But they aren't. They're really a lot closer to disks. ;)

--janak

[CodeSurge]

Was Viewsonic's screen 3,5" or 3,8"?

I'm spending the next summer in Australia. Anybody know is the situation with Viewsonics any better there?

/jizmo

I haven't seen a Viewsonic model here in Sydney yet. The 1910 was just officaly released this week, haven't seen it on shelf yet though.

3.5" transflective screen.