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LorryDriver71
03-17-2003, 09:25 PM
Hey, I'm new here, I wanna get a Pocket PC but I'm actually quite confused in alota ways. Well, I have some questionns I'd be gratful if anyone could answer.

1) Can I get a working PPC emulator to try some stuff out? I've seen something to do with one in the developer section on PocketPC.com but it was about 400Mb!?

2) What are your guesses for when PPC 2003 will be out?

3) Whats this ROM/RAM thing? From what I've known RAM is momory a computer temporerily (spelling) uses to run programs, but the way people on here talk it seems a PPC's RAM is like it's Hard disk.

Thanks in advance.

Janak Parekh
03-17-2003, 09:32 PM
1) Can I get a working PPC emulator to try some stuff out? I've seen something to do with one in the developer section on PocketPC.com but it was about 400Mb!?
You mean Embedded Visual Tools? Yeah, the emulator is in that download (but so is the development environment). The problem with the emulator on that is it won't run most 3rd-party applications, although you'll get a feel for the user interface.

3) Whats this ROM/RAM thing? From what I've known RAM is momory a computer temporerily (spelling) uses to run programs, but the way people on here talk it seems a PPC's RAM is like it's Hard disk.
That's because RAM on a Pocket PC isn't lost when you turn off a Pocket PC. It's used as temporary storage space, much like your documents on a hard disk. ROM contains the permanent image of the OS, which doesn't change very frequently at all.

It's a bit more complex, though: RAM on a Pocket PC gets split into two parts: storage and program memory. The part of RAM allocated to storage memory is like a hard disk, spacewise. The part of RAM allocated to program memory is like the RAM in your desktop. And ROM is sort of like a CD. Flash can also be construed as additional floppy/hard drive space, although it's slower than storage RAM.

Does that make any sense? ;)

--janak

Kati Compton
03-17-2003, 09:34 PM
1) Can I get a working PPC emulator to try some stuff out? I've seen something to do with one in the developer section on PocketPC.com but it was about 400Mb!?


No. The only "emulator" is part of a developer package, and is not a true emulator. You can only run programs that are compiled specifically for the emulator.

2) What are your guesses for when PPC 2003 will be out?
April this year is what people are saying I believe.

3) Whats this ROM/RAM thing? From what I've known RAM is momory a computer temporerily (spelling) uses to run programs, but the way people on here talk it seems a PPC's RAM is like it's Hard disk.

It's somewhere in between. RAM space is divided into program area (RAM like you think of it for computers), and "storage" (akin to hard drives but not quite). On a soft reset, the program RAM is cleared (ie, all programs stopped like when you reset your computer), but the storage area remains as-is. On a hard reset, they're both wiped.

Edit - Janak does type faster than me... <sigh>

LorryDriver71
03-17-2003, 09:49 PM
wow, two replys already, me likes this forum. Thank you both. I have one more question,

would you say a PPC is more a small PC or a personal organiser? coz if i had a 400Mhz ppc would i bbe able to run a normall pc program on it that requires say, 200mhz, 16mb ram and compatible with 320 x 240 resolution or would that not work? thanks again.

Kati Compton
03-17-2003, 10:00 PM
would you say a PPC is more a small PC or a personal organiser? coz if i had a 400Mhz ppc would i bbe able to run a normall pc program on it that requires say, 200mhz, 16mb ram and compatible with 320 x 240 resolution or would that not work? thanks again.

It's its own type of computer. Programs compiled for a regular PC will not run on a PPC.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
03-17-2003, 10:03 PM
would you say a PPC is more a small PC or a personal organiser? coz if i had a 400Mhz ppc would i bbe able to run a normall pc program on it that requires say, 200mhz, 16mb ram and compatible with 320 x 240 resolution or would that not work? thanks again.
The PPC has both characteristics of a personal organizer and a miniature computer. You will NOT be able to run PC programs on the PPC though.

The programs must be specifically compiled for the PPC CPUs. The current crop of CPUs are XScales with older CPUs being MIPS, SH3, and StrongARM. XScale is mostly backwards compatible with StrongARM.

Hyperluminal
03-17-2003, 10:03 PM
No, you couldn't. The PPC and the desktop PC are different computer architectures, like Mac vs. PC.
For example, the PC's processor architecture is x86, and the PPC's is ARM (as in StrongArm). Also, the Pocket PC OS, while similar to desktop Windows, is still too different to run the same programs in.

Another thing to remember is that while the XScale can operate at 400 MHz, it's not necessarily faster than a Pentium 200. That's because MHz only measures processor cycles per second; so while the XScale can operate at twice the cycles per second, the Pentium may be able to do more per cycle. If the Pentium can do, on average, more than twice the operations per cycle than the XScale, then it'll still be more powerful.

The PPC is still a little computer, though. :)

Edit: Wow, beaten by two people already... :oops:

Kati Compton
03-17-2003, 10:10 PM
Another thing to remember is that while the XScale can operate at 400 MHz, it's not necessarily faster than a Pentium 200. That's because MHz only measures processor cycles per second; so while the XScale can operate at twice the cycles per second, the Pentium may be able to do more per cycle. If the Pentium can do, on average, more than twice the operations per cycle than the XScale, then it'll still be more powerful.

That, and I believe the XScale actually doesn't have a divider in it. So anything that requires division I believe would be a series of shifts and subtracts, wheras it would be a single instruction on a Pentium.

Hyperluminal
03-17-2003, 10:14 PM
Really? That's weird. Did StrongArm have one?

Janak Parekh
03-17-2003, 10:14 PM
That, and I believe the XScale actually doesn't have a divider in it.
Actually, I don't think it has any floating-point instructions at all, so they all have to be emulated by standard integer ALUs. Of course, division is the big killer.

Put simply, you're not buying a Pocket PC for its power in doing complex numerical algorithms or simulations. :)

--janak

Kati Compton
03-17-2003, 10:18 PM
Really? That's weird. Did StrongArm have one?

Don't know - I would assume not.

Some processors don't even have multipliers, btw.

Janak Parekh
03-17-2003, 10:20 PM
Don't know - I would assume not.
No ARM has ever had a FP unit. That's been one of the notable compromises of the ARM line. The (once Corel) Netwinder was infamous (http://www.netwinder.org/~scottb/notes/FP-Notes-all.html) for this limitation; it was intended as a lightweight, Linux-based desktop replacement, but a lot of people thought it was too light.

Sorry about hijacking the thread... for those of you who are confused by this whole discussion, check out the link I provided... although it might be too low-level too. ;)

--janak

LorryDriver71
03-17-2003, 10:25 PM
K thanks all, now just to sit back and wait for PPC 2003. Oh, and theres the fact that i'm about to fail all my GCSE's, you win some, you lose some. :?

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
03-17-2003, 10:36 PM
Sorry about hijacking the thread...
They should change your title from Site Admin to Troll Admin.. :P