Free Password Management Software! [Archive]

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Janak Parekh

03-12-2003, 12:30 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages/pmpda.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp...pages/pmpda.htm</a><br /><br /></div>PDACorps has decided to release their Password Manager Suite software for free.<br /><br />"Password Manager Suite is a FREEWARE application by PDA Corps. This software is distributed as a salute and thank you to all our users and the many PDA sites which have shown us such tremendous support and respect. We thank you all, and hope that you like Password Manager Suite, our gift to you."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/news/pdacorps-password-mgr.jpg" />

mpattman

03-12-2003, 12:36 PM

There is already a PocketPCThoughts skin for it!

http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages/pmpdaskins.htm

vetteguy

03-12-2003, 02:19 PM

I've been looking for an application like this. I would have gladly paid for it, but getting it for free is even better. Thanks PDACorps!

van_mierlo

03-12-2003, 02:38 PM

Woow this is great but it is a 4MB application. That is as much as the high quality graphics action games for the PPC....hmmm.

I must say the interface is looking good and you have a lot of options to change some colors settings within the skins

Ben909

03-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Cracknell

03-12-2003, 03:42 PM

Bob Anderson

03-12-2003, 03:59 PM

smileyguy

03-12-2003, 04:12 PM

This app looks nice, but what about us poor schleps that are still stuck using a MIPS device. :( If they can support SH3 why not MIPS.

van_mierlo

03-12-2003, 04:13 PM

Hi van_mierlo
You should find that the actual install directory is about 245kb. Plus a folder with some skins in it (about 200kb) in your 'my documents' folder. The SH3 version is slightly smaller still. There were a number of files included in the installer that most people will already have, hence the larger file size.
Pleased to hear you like the program though.
Ben

Ben,

Thanks for the explanation...you are right if ...I go to my folder where it is installed(storage card) I can see now that it is small. So I will uninstall it and reinstall even onto my ppc's memory...Maybe you wanna change the info if you select not to install in default directory!

Jason Dunn

03-12-2003, 05:14 PM

There is already a PocketPCThoughts skin for it!

http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages/pmpdaskins.htm

Heh...awesome! :D

I wonder, does this app support XML import/export?

yawanag

03-12-2003, 05:56 PM

Thanks PDA Corps and the PT crew. I'll be sporting the PocketPCThoughts skin. :lol:

lurch

03-12-2003, 06:13 PM

Everybody just assume these password management stuffs actually work.

Has anybody actually tried cracking any of this supposedly secure stuff? How much effort is needed and what sort of algorithms are being used? Don'te we need some sort of test and review to know these?

Good point, but I've come to the conclusion long ago that if there is data on my computing device (laptop, pda, desktop, et. al.) and someone wants it, they'll figure out a way to get it. It's simply a matter of time.

So, having said that, programs like this one help us deter the casual "snooper" from gaining access to the data. It's very cool that PDA Corps is offering this program for free...

I've gotta throw something in the mix here (I'm usually very quiet on message boards.. :) )

I don't know if anybody noticed yet, but in the help documentation for this app, it says that the passwords or sensitive data aren't encrypted at all... so this would in fact AID snoopers, because it centralizes all your information! But not that many people are out hacking PDAs (unless you lose yours and someone finds it).

And while I definitely appreciate the gesture of offering this program for free, here's why I wouldn't pay money for it if it cost anything (and why I'm not using it now, even though it's free):
1. The above mentioned non-encryption
2. It's written in eVB (obviously I don't really care about this, it's just that TONS of dll's are needed in this case, and I'm not impressed with a program written in eVB, because it takes very little skill!)
3. I wasn't impressed with the operation - I was able to get a database error in my first try (just hit "Add" and then cancel out of the addition, then hit "Delete" which shouldn't be enabled but it is), and the skins aren't clever like Winamp or anything, it's just a new background image for the app...

Okay, so really the only reason I wouldn't use it even if it's free is #1, numbers 2 & 3 are more reasons why I wouldn't pay money. :)

But seriously, I do like the gesture of offering a product for free when it usually costs money!!

Cracknell

03-12-2003, 06:53 PM

I personally rather trust free software since a lot of people will use it and test it. If the developer is responsive, over time it will be better.

Opensource is even better, since the rest of the experts can also eyeball and inspect the flaw.

It's better to have weak encryption with known weaknesses and limitation than a mysterious tool that gives use false sense of security.

Note: two tumbs up for PDAcorps braveness, coming out to the public and explaining their product. It's a nice first step.

Pony99CA

03-12-2003, 07:03 PM

I don't know if anybody noticed yet, but in the help documentation for this app, it says that the passwords or sensitive data aren't encrypted at all... so this would in fact AID snoopers, because it centralizes all your information! But not that many people are out hacking PDAs (unless you lose yours and someone finds it).

If you want to keep snoopers out, you set a good password on your Pocket PC. Do you avoid using the Contacts application because it has centralized your private contact information?

While I agree that encryption would be a great feature for this type of program, if you want encryption, there are plenty of general encryption programs out there. There are also wallet programs which are suitable for password storage and encryption. This program seems like it's for people who are happy with the security their Pocket PC provides and just want a simple way to keep their user IDs and passwords organized.

And while I definitely appreciate the gesture of offering this program for free, here's why I wouldn't pay money for it if it cost anything (and why I'm not using it now, even though it's free):
1. The above mentioned non-encryption
2. It's written in eVB (obviously I don't really care about this, it's just that TONS of dll's are needed in this case, and I'm not impressed with a program written in eVB, because it takes very little skill!)
3. I wasn't impressed with the operation - I was able to get a database error in my first try (just hit "Add" and then cancel out of the addition, then hit "Delete" which shouldn't be enabled but it is), and the skins aren't clever like Winamp or anything, it's just a new background image for the app...

I can agree that #1 is a reason for some people not to use it, and #3 is a reason not to buy. However, #2 is just silly. If a program does what you want, who cares what language it's written in?

Also, while programming in VB is certainly easier than C++, saying it takes "very little skill" is wrong. A good program takes skill in many areas. The whole point of Visual Basic is to make it easier for non-programmers to be able to write programs. Even "skillful" programmers will use it at times to get something written quickly. We use the right tool for the job.

Back in the 60s, would you not buy programs written in FORTRAN because it took less skill to write them than Assember programs? :roll: Do you avoid Windows and the Mac because using them takes less skill than DOS? :roll: :roll: Hey, don't visit Web sites that are built using DreamWeaver or other tools; only go to those created with hand-coded HTML. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Steve

Ben909

03-12-2003, 07:19 PM

There are a number of programs out there to encrypt your data (most of them cost money too). We've made no claims about Password Manager other than what it says in the help file...

"Password Manager PDA does NOT encrypt your data, nor does it prevent anyone else who may have gained access to your PDA from viewing it. There is a number of means of protecting your PDA and its data, such as using a power-on password, not leaving your PDA on your desk at work when away from it, etc. If you look after your PDA the way you should, your passwords will look after themselves."

I must agree with Pony99CA here.. "who cares what language it's written in?". The program was written to serve a purpose, not to demonstrate programming skill. I enjoy writing in VB in my spare time. I code in C when I'm at work and don't really fancy bringing that work home with me. If frame rates, etc were important I'd have to agree with you, but for a data management program, I can't see that it really matters.

Lurch - As for the bug.. I must admit I'm yet to test to re-create it (I assume you mean it only does this when you have no passwords entered). Whilst the process you describe to achieve the bug is not exactly 'normal' use of the program, you are quite right.. it shouldn't be there. I'll take a look at it - thanks for pointing it out.

ironguy

03-12-2003, 07:21 PM

I loded the password suite and during the install said "NO" to the plethora of dlls that it wanted to replace. There were about a dozen or so that were older than the current files. After the install was done, the program wouldn't run. I loaded it into a Storage Card, into the default directory, and even soft reset. All to no avail.

I've been having a running conversation with Ben909 who is from PDACorps. He said it should work, that the dlls were there just in case you didn't have them. He was very helpful and responsive to questions.

I've now loaded it again and said "YES" to all files. After installation, WISBar didn't work. SO I soft reset as any good PPCer would do. Everything no works as advertised, including WISBar. Makes me wonder if I'll run into any other programs that have chnaged dlls and if they'll still work.

Ben909 was very supportive.

dean_shan

03-12-2003, 07:58 PM

It's nice to see another great freeware app. Thanks PDACorps. :D

lurch

03-12-2003, 09:02 PM

1st off - I meant no disrespect, I was not slamming anybody so I hope no feelings are hurt, I was just expressing my opinion!

There are a number of programs out there to encrypt your data (most of them cost money too). We've made no claims about Password Manager other than what it says in the help file...
I don't disagree, it's just that when I think about a password management program, I think of something that will secure my passwords so they're not readily available to anybody who views my device.. and I know there's other ways to protect my PDA, but maybe I don't wanna do those? ;) I just had prior expectations that weren't met and if I would not have looked at the help I probably would've put all my stuff in the app without realizing it wasn't encrypted...
Do you avoid using the Contacts application because it has centralized your private contact information?
Not exactly the same thing as storing all my PASSWORDS and PINs...
I must agree with Pony99CA here.. "who cares what language it's written in?". The program was written to serve a purpose, not to demonstrate programming skill. I enjoy writing in VB in my spare time. I code in C when I'm at work and don't really fancy bringing that work home with me. If frame rates, etc were important I'd have to agree with you, but for a data management program, I can't see that it really matters.
Of course what language something was written in isn't seriously going to affect whether or not I use a program, and that's a good point about the data management system.. I guess I didn't know much about the company and was expecting a high-end app but it seemed to be more like a home-grown one... but as someone said, it'll get better over time (and it didn't work poorly, that's for sure!) -- actually I think you did a pretty good job!

Also, while programming in VB is certainly easier than C++, saying it takes "very little skill" is wrong. A good program takes skill in many areas. The whole point of Visual Basic is to make it easier for non-programmers to be able to write programs. Even "skillful" programmers will use it at times to get something written quickly. We use the right tool for the job.
So what you're saying is that the whole point of VB is to allow less-skilled programmers to write apps, or for skilled programmers to whip something up as a prototype? Thought that's what I said... :? Either way, I wouldn't necessarily expect to pay $$ for an app like that...

(I assume you mean it only does this when you have no passwords entered)
Yep
the process you describe to achieve the bug is not exactly 'normal' use of the program
Here's what I've learned as a software developer: what I consider to be the "normal" use of the system is SELDOM the actual "normal" use of the system! :) Oh how I wish it was though....

lurch

03-12-2003, 09:08 PM

Back in the 60s, would you not buy programs written in FORTRAN because it took less skill to write them than Assember programs? Do you avoid Windows and the Mac because using them takes less skill than DOS? Hey, don't visit Web sites that are built using DreamWeaver or other tools; only go to those created with hand-coded HTML.
Steve

I wasn't alive in the 60s.. :D What the heck is FORTRAN? (kidding!!)
I wouldn't avoid a program because it was EASIER to USE than another program (your eg: windows/DOS)
I'd venture to say that I'd have less problems with browser interaction on hand-coded websites vs. tool-generated websites. :) Depends who was doing the hand coding though...

Ben909

03-12-2003, 09:14 PM

Lurch - of course no feelings are hurt. We're all friends here :)

what I consider to be the "normal" use of the system is SELDOM the actual "normal" use of the system!

I completely agree with that!

cyko95

03-12-2003, 10:01 PM

While this is exactly the type of app that i've been looking for, it falls short in one main field that will keep me from using it unless someone can correct me. It doesn't have password protection on it. Isn't that defeating the purpose of having passwords for the items that we're storing in there if they're not protected? I would like this for a couple reasons:

1.) My friends play with my PPC all the time. There is personal and financial information that they do not need access to.

2.) What happens if you loose your PDA or if someone steals it? Now they have convenient access to your bank info & credit card info with the PIN's to go with them. (Not to mention whatever else I may put in there.)

Please someone tell me this is a oversight by me, and tell me where the option to enable password protection for this app is at. Thanks.

Ben909

03-12-2003, 10:15 PM

Its not an oversight by you. Only the desktop version features password protection. It was originally started as a utility purely for myself, and I rely on the power on password. The decision to make it available on PDACorps.com came after the site was launched. We remain primarily a PPC info site. I've heard your request though, and will consider a further release :wink:

cyko95

03-12-2003, 10:55 PM

Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us about this. Other than my previous concern the application is flawless, and in every way that I have seen, perfect. I think it was very thoughtful and selfless to release this as freeware.

Thanks again.

PDAC-Bob

03-13-2003, 12:48 AM

(Just woken up - Grammar & spell checker software still booting.... :D )

All interesting points of view indeed, and I think they are all relevant in their own right, however, I take full responsibility for the 'undocumented feature' (bug) which lurch found.

I was lead beta tester when we started out, and therefore that IS my fault for not picking it up. My shoulders are broad, I can take it. Ben has already told me that although this bug is easily avoided under normal operation, he has located and fixed it. There will be an update in the near future.

Thanks to all of you for such a storming response! Makes it all worthwhile.

Regards

Bob
PDACorps

ctmagnus

03-13-2003, 05:46 AM

Which taskbar skinner + skin is in use at the
skins site (http://www.pdacorps.com/default.asp?key=pages\pmpdaskins.htm)? It looks nift-Y! If it's Wisbar/Icbar, I may finally have to cave.

Edit: it appears the backslash in the url is breaking the pHpBB code.

Ben909

03-13-2003, 09:12 AM

The taskbar skinner is PocketBlinds.. Can't remember the name of the skin sorry.

Pony99CA

03-13-2003, 09:23 AM

Do you avoid using the Contacts application because it has centralized your private contact information?
Not exactly the same thing as storing all my PASSWORDS and PINs...

It depends how you use Contacts, I guess. Before I got eWallet, I put my credit card numbers in the Notes page of a contact record for each credit card provider. I could also see having contacts for Web sites with passwords in the Notes field or bank contacts with PINs in the Notes field. It's safer there than on a piece of paper in your wallet. :-)

Also, while programming in VB is certainly easier than C++, saying it takes "very little skill" is wrong. A good program takes skill in many areas. The whole point of Visual Basic is to make it easier for non-programmers to be able to write programs. Even "skillful" programmers will use it at times to get something written quickly. We use the right tool for the job.
So what you're saying is that the whole point of VB is to allow less-skilled programmers to write apps, or for skilled programmers to whip something up as a prototype? Thought that's what I said... :?

First, you're misstating my point. I said programmers would use it to write something quickly; I made no mention of prototypes (although it certainly is used for prototyping). For example, I interviewed with a company that provided a very critical piece of software to morgues and medical examiners that was written in VB, and they got money for it (probably lots of money, as it's not exactly a mass-market application :-)).

Second, you even misquoted yourself. You didn't say "less-skilled programmers"; you said, "I'm not impressed with a program written in eVB, because it takes very little skill!" There's a difference between being "less-skilled" (but compared to what?) and having "very little skill".

Of course, maybe you believe the only skill needed for a good program is coding, and that there's no skill involved in user interface design, program architecture, database design, etc. :roll:

Steve

lurch

03-13-2003, 02:09 PM

It depends how you use Contacts, I guess. Before I got eWallet, I put my credit card numbers in the Notes page of a contact record for each credit card provider. I could also see having contacts for Web sites with passwords in the Notes field or bank contacts with PINs in the Notes field. It's safer there than on a piece of paper in your wallet. :-)
I would almost say that it's not safer than having a piece of paper in your wallet (especially if you work at a company that uses MS Outlook, for example, and you don't have any of your contacts set as "Private"). Potentially people could view your contacts and possibly your information. But that seems like a topic for another thread.. :)

First, you're misstating my point. I said programmers would use it to write something quickly; I made no mention of prototypes (although it certainly is used for prototyping). For example, I interviewed with a company that provided a very critical piece of software to morgues and medical examiners that was written in VB, and they got money for it (probably lots of money, as it's not exactly a mass-market application :-)).
Whether something was written for prototyping or not, if it's written quickly, I don't know if I'd want to use it. It's been proven over and over that a good production-grade app (by that I mean one that's releasable to the public) cannot be created quickly - it takes iterations. Also, as for the morgue example - and I'm not slamming that company - but I 've seen plenty, and I mean PLENTY of apps that are written for professional use (i.e. patient-management software, the software they use at Jiffy-Lube, etc..) that were obviously written in VB or something similar, and they seem very clunky, poorly designed, etc. Now I haven't seen them using the program and errors pop up on the screen, so I'll give 'em that, but perhaps the users have been using it for a while so they're used to "not clicking there after you click here" or something like that. So just because an app is written in VB for a business application, and just because they got lots of money for it, doesn't tell me very much at all... (I've seen people get lots of money for total junk! - now I gotta figure out how to do that.. :) )

Second, you even misquoted yourself. You didn't say "less-skilled programmers"; you said, "I'm not impressed with a program written in eVB, because it takes very little skill!" There's a difference between being "less-skilled" (but compared to what?) and having "very little skill".
You're right, I did misquote myself, I meant to say "minimally skilled programmers, or even non-programmers (who would have no skill at development what-so-ever)".. thanks for helping me clear that up!

Of course, maybe you believe the only skill needed for a good program is coding, and that there's no skill involved in user interface design, program architecture, database design, etc. :roll:
The skills required for UI design, architecture, DB design, etc... aren't the same as coding skills (although they are related) and someone can be great at those things and suck at coding in VB, or they can suck at coding in C++.. doesn't matter. OR, they can suck at those things, and be great at coding. So those skills are irrelevant to my point.

mike6024

03-13-2003, 08:15 PM

PDAC-Bob

03-13-2003, 09:33 PM

OK OK.

I made the 'normal operation' statement. Perhaps I should have tightened that down to '...in most circumstances' - point taken though.

As anyone who works as a developer, or has involvement in any project knows, things can and often do go wrong, pass through final betas etc.

Our aim was not to cause controversy, merely to release software which would have sat on a shelf due to the fact that we weren't prepared to compromise our status as an independent Pocket PC site.

If anyone is to blame here re: the bug, it's probably me. I did the finals and I obviously missed it, I guess I am human (although many would argue with that :wink: ).

As far as security goes, after nearly 17 years of being a system engineer, I have to agree with the philosophy that if someone wants the information they WILL get it. If it's that sensitive, the only place it should be is in a safe. Novell found that out the hard way with a little program called 'burglar' - instant system admin, released by one of their own techies as I understand it.

If your PDA is on and unlocked when someone takes it, you have already undermined your confidential data safety by a fair amount. My personal view is lock it or lose it, same applies to your phone, briefcase etc.

Finally, as a mostly 'non-coder' (I'm a graphical kinda bloke) I find the arguments about 'who's better at what? and how much? by what?' rather funny. Almost reminds me of Counter-Srike players in a bragging rights flame war.

At the end of the day, the aim here was to give something away for nothing. Over 2500 downloads later we only have a handful of comments, but we're not complaining, as long as it makes someone happy, that's cool by us.

If people like it, we'll look at releasing a fix for any bugs which are found, please bear in mind that we can only fix them if we're told about them though. The proper place for that is in a thread in the PDACorps message boards.

The last thing we want to do is abuse the kindness shown to us by PPCT by using their forum as a technical support area.

I thank everyone who has had an input, but I don't want anyone to start falling out with each other because some idiot didn't check the beta final properly! :oops:

Best regards to all

Bob
PDACorps

Noghri_ViR

03-14-2003, 12:10 AM

Is it possiable to get the data on the PPC to sync up with the desktop version?

Also is there some way to get it to prompt you for a password like it does on the desktop version before you have access to the app?

backpackerx

03-14-2003, 03:46 AM

I've gotta say too, this software does me no good. While I really do appreciate the fact that someone went to the trouble of developing this, I still can't see how this is at all a good program.

I highly doubt some techo wiz is going to steal my pda, break the encryption just to see my web passwords and access my paultry bank account. That said, all I was hoping for with this software was a simple password protection to open the app. What this does is it now gives the 99.9% of people who aren't computer wizards access to everything in the world that I want to keep SECRET!, ALL IN ONE CONVENIENT PLACE! in the event that I lose my pda or someone picks it up and looks through it when I'm not around.

This software is only a glorified notepad with information readily accessable in it which is exactly why I don't keep sensetive material in my note pad!

And no, I'm not going to enable password protection on my device at startup just to use this because I, like most people turn my device on several dozen times a day for quick access to information.

Sorry, that's just a rant after downloading it over dial up and then installing it only to be dissappointed. If some of you really like this because all you wanted was a specific app to keep all this information together then I'm very happy that this product works for you.

Pony99CA

03-14-2003, 05:01 AM

It depends how you use Contacts, I guess. Before I got eWallet, I put my credit card numbers in the Notes page of a contact record for each credit card provider.
Well, that's your own fault for using contacts that way. I highly doubt they were meant to store sensitive data like that.

My "fault"? I wasn't blaming anyone or complaining about how I stored my data. I was simply pointing out that someone might use Contacts for storing sensitive information, which is an unencrypted, one-place-for-everything database.

By the way, I've been doing this since probably 1998, well before I had any wallet software, on my Handheld PC. I just wanted my credit card numbers to be stored with the credit card provider, so that, if I had to call them, I wouldn't have to get my credit card out when they ask for the number. That solution worked quite well and never caused me any problems. So what "fault" is there?

Of course, maybe you believe the only skill needed for a good program is coding, and that there's no skill involved in user interface design, program architecture, database design, etc.
I don't know. I find it hard to argue that VB is of the same quality that C is. Of course the above mentioned things take skill but that's not particularly what lurch was trying to say either.

Read what he said again. He said he wasn't impressed with a VB program because it took very little skill. I was simply pointing out that there's much more to writing a program than coding. Even a VB program still needs good, usable form design, a method to store data so that it's accessible, etc.

Sure, there are a lot of junk VB programs out there, but there are a lot of junk C++ programs, too. I just think lurch went too far in tarring all VB programs with the same brush, while at the same time implying the program's author had very little skill. I didn't think that was necessary.

Steve

Janak Parekh

03-14-2003, 05:24 AM

And no, I'm not going to enable password protection on my device at startup just to use this because I, like most people turn my device on several dozen times a day for quick access to information.
What device do you have? Most Pocket PC 2002 devices have an option to "show the password only if the device is off for X hours".

I agree this app is not for everyone, but hey, it's free and PDACorps deserves a lot of kudos for responding to people's concerns and being very upfront about what this program does and does not do.

--janak

mike6024

03-14-2003, 08:06 PM

I thank everyone who has had an input, but I don't want anyone to start falling out with each other because some idiot didn't check the beta final properly! :oops:

Believe me, it was not my intent to make you or anyone feel bad about this. I write software at work and at home (when I have time or feel inspired) and I know bugs happen. It just seemed to me like the presence of the bug was being justified. I would have simply preferred a "Woops. We'll get that in the next version" or something similar. No big deal though, guys.

And about the whole VB vs. C debate, I just view it all as a joke. I prefer C and us C guys have to give the VB guys a hard time. That's just how it is. :lol:

Rudism

06-02-2003, 07:05 AM

Hey, don't visit Web sites that are built using DreamWeaver or other tools; only go to those created with hand-coded HTML.

Oh, hella yeah!