HP Printer Debacle Rant

[Kati Compton]

A while ago I bought an HP LaserJet 6L printer for $400, and added 4 megs for $100 more. A big investment for me at the time - one that I planned to last until I finished school and started a job.

Sometime last year the printer started always grabbing multiple pages at a time. For a while I solved the problem by only putting one page at a time in the feeder.

After I while I checked HP tech support to see if there was anything I could do about it. It didn't make the printer unuseable, but it was inconvenient. On the support site for the printer it said this was a known issue (there was a class action, but I didn't still have my original receipt). The "solution" was provided for free, and was basically a new rubber pad to stick down into the feeder. A "separator".

When it arrived, I followed the instructions to the letter and installed it. It worked for a few months.

But a week or so ago, the printer grabbed 20-30 sheets in one go and made a horrible noise, and stopped with the paper half-fed. I pulled it out, but the printer hasn't been the same since. It will only grab a page at all if I push while it's trying to catch it, it mangles the leading edge, and black goo is on the back of every sheet. I assume the remains of the little rubber pad.

I call up HP to get help since their fix turned my printer from inconvenient to unuseable. It was past warranty, but I figured that since their fix didn't work, and in fact caused MORE problems, they'd cover the cost to fix it.

Wrong.

Here were the options I was presented.

1. Buy a new replacement 6L (no doubt that would develop the same problem) for $500. This is $100 more than I had paid originally a few years ago. $100 more than list of several years ago for a printer with known problems? I don't think so.

2. Get a refurbished unit for $220. Given that I don't trust this model much anymore, I don't trust refurbished at all. Nor do I want to pay as much for a refurbished crappy model as I could for a new printer that may not have these issues.

3. Have it repaired for $160. And how long would this fix last? I would try it for $0, but not for $160.

I was pretty livid. I understand that electronics wear out. That's why I wasn't all that upset over the multi-feed problem. But as I said before - the thing HP told me to do broke the printer. Not age. I could have continued using it (though annoyingly) if I hadn't have applied their "fix". I was NOT going to pay a single cent to have this printer repaired/replaced.

"Yeah - sometimes the fix works, sometimes it makes it worse."

Well, that bit of info was certainly NOT listed on the website. No warnings at all. If there had been, I wouldn't have bothered.

"Did you clean the roller with alcohol before applying it?"

No, that wasn't in the instructions for installation.

"Oh, well, you needed to clean it."

And how was I supposed to know this if it wasn't in the instructions?

"Well, even if you did clean it, this can sometimes happen."

There wasn't a manager available for me to talk to, so I had to conclude with asking the tech to inform her manager that I would no longer be purchasing HP products. Not printers. Not PDAs. Not laptops. Not desktops. Nothing.

Looks like I'll be picking up a Brother laser printer soon.

[Rirath]

Hmm, I get the rant... but really... I can't see how it's HP's fault. I think trying any advice or fix yourself comes with a certain understanding of let's hope for the best.

[seanturner]

Yes, I have several HP printers which I love and hate in varying degrees.

I have a 3100 which suffers from the same multifeeding problem which you described. I tried their fix as soon as it came out, and it works most of hte time. But just recently a new problem cropped up: now whenever I scan a page, it has a black line on the right hand side. Since the printer is out of warranty, I am out of luck. So, now I am trying to find a new printer, however, I need an all in one device and so far I haven't found a single device that isn't crap. I've seen the brother and Xerox devices and don't like either of them. I think I am going to have to settle for an HP 3300 but it is quite expensive and a gamble as to whether or it is going to work.

On a much better note, I do have an HP Desktop 500 something or other which I have had since Windows 3.1 was release and it's still chugging along today.

I have a DeskJet 882C which works beautifully although I don't use it much anymore.

I have a color LaserJet 4500TN with about 30,000 pages on it which works beautifully, except when I try to feed from the top, priority input tray which it occasionally feeds 2 or 3 pages from.

I have an OfficeJet 600 which suffers from feed problems.

I have a Laserjet 2100 which works beautifully and I have had no feed problems for it.


From my experience, it seems that any product from HP which has a tray that feeds vertically instead of horizontally is doomed to fail. The exception, however, is the 2100 which has a machine which raises its top priority tray up so that it lays horizontal and draws paper that way. I wonder if HP has implemented this on it's newer printers...

[seanturner]

Hmm, I get the rant... but really... I can't see how it's HP's fault. I think trying any advice or fix yourself comes with a certain understanding of let's hope for the best.

HP provided the fix. Since it is user installable there is negligable risk assumed.

[Rirath]

Hmm, I get the rant... but really... I can't see how it's HP's fault. I think trying any advice or fix yourself comes with a certain understanding of let's hope for the best.

HP provided the fix. Since it is user installable there is negligable risk assumed.

Assuming is always the worst thing to do. I never follow /any/ tech support advice / listed fix without seriously considering it could be bad advice. I certainly wouldn't follow this particular advice without considering it could break it.

Personally I love HP printers, but I just use the deskjet series. I've had about 3. An older 695cse (I think it was), and my current one is a Deskjet 5550. Spffiest home desktop printer I've ever saw. (If you're like me and unimpressed by things like built in LCDs.)

[rhmorrison]

Should you be upset about your experiences - YES,
should you then forget hp printers - NO!

I have an ancient hp LaserJet IIP plus with the extra A4 sheet feeder which I am still very happy with and will continue to use until it breaks
OR I can't get the toner casettes anymore. Because it is only 300 dpi
it is very fast, and although somewhat larger than current units is still
a very nice printer.

My newer unit is an OfficeJet G85 all-in-one with the duplex unit (for
printing on both sides of the paper) and a hp hp JetDirect 500x print server (I probably should have bought the G95). We scan, copy, send
and receive faxes. This is a very nice unit and my wife and I have been
very happy with it.

And think that your problems with your printer support apply to other
areas. At the end of last year I bought a used Jornada 568 for myself and
a brand new Jornada 565 (for my wife) BOTH over Ebay. When I returned to Germany (where I live) and tested my wife's 565 I found that
it worked fine when attached to power but was dead when not on power.
With my 568 I could verify that the battery worked and was charged as my unit worked with the 565's battery. I reported this to hp and since the
unit was under warrently (even though produced one year ago) they sent
a pickup with box and paperwork and the unit came back on Tuesday after
having been picked up the previous Thursday afternoon. They had to
replace the whole main board, also sent me a new batter (so now I have
two working batteries) and sent me a free cover and stylus. So I would
have to say that the service I got with my Jornada was exemplerary!

You might try again to reach a manager higher up as this sounds like
something that they really should handle, but if it's out of warrenty then
you have the same problem that I will have with my printer if it ever
dies - it will definately be more cost effective to buy a new unit than to
try to repair the old one (maybe a COLOR laser when it happens).

I wish you luck with your problem.

[ux4484]

kati,

We have scads of HP Laser printers at work, they are really a love/hate relationship thing. The ones that are good are REALLY good, the ones that are bad, just suck. We had three 2100TN laserjets that the second bottom tray would not work without jamming. Since we buy 6 to a dozen at a time, it's easy to squeeze HP or the vendor for a replacement. But for an individual......not so. HP ink based deskjets are just fine for home use (and even small business), but I often talk folks out of HP lasers for home (even their cheapos), just too dang expensive up front and for toner carts for most folks.
Go for the Brother, Office Max had the 1440 last week for $179 USD, cant get much better than that. The heavy duty replacement toner cartridge only cost $45 bucks, and usually lasts me 6 to nine months with heavy usage. Combined, thats $225 for 1.5 years of moderate/heavy use (it comes with a 1000 sheet toner cartridge). That's cheaper than two replacement cartridges (retail) for your 6P. Go with the Brother. the rollers can be easily cleaned with baby wipes (a tried and true technician technique) and then wiped with a lint free cloth.....and getting at/cleaning the rollers does not require the three stage dissassembly of your 6P.
For the cost of a refurb 6P you can go another 1.5 years with a NEW Brother, don't throw good money after bad.......Go for the Brother.
There's a reason that 1240 & 1440 have been PC World Best buys again and again......they're great value home/home office printers.

[Kati Compton]

Hmm, I get the rant... but really... I can't see how it's HP's fault. I think trying any advice or fix yourself comes with a certain understanding of let's hope for the best.

It was a little kit that they sent you specifically to "fix" the problem. It's not like I went out and bought a little rubber foot from a hardware store and stuck it into my printer. This was an elaborate thing made out of cardboard that helped you to position it in exactly the right place and everything.

PS - I think that the kit was made available as a response to the class action lawsuit. At this point, it seems like a pretty weak response given my experience.

[Kati Compton]

Should you be upset about your experiences - YES,
should you then forget hp printers - NO!


They lost me on customer service. Like I said in the rant - I wasn't all that upset about the multiple feeds, and wasn't going to take *that* out on HP just because the printer was getting old. But since the thing they told me to do actually broke it, and they're even willing to admit that what they told me to do could break the printer, but they're not willing to fix it even though this information was not available up front at the time I was installing the fix... That's what makes me angry. It just really has the flavor of "break their old printer so they need to buy a new printer" to me.

Perhaps I will try again on Thursday, but after spending a half hour on hold last time, I'm not all that excited about it. Plus, you have to use the special "loser" out of warranty phone numbers.

[hulksmash]

Try calling again and requesting a "roller kit." I'd heard that they were available from a CompUSA rep and that it was an amazing fix that he was impressed with from hp which was not generally known but that was made available to customers upon request. I think you mentioned that you bought it used, in which case the person who owned it originally got the full use of the unit for the life of the product and your buying it was not as a manufacturer refurb but as a "used" product which is "as-is" and the responsibility of the original owner, not hp unfortunately, but it seems they were gracious enough to try to assist you anyways. If you go to any university, you will find many hp laser printers there, almost exclusively, and most are probably about 15 yrs old and still going. This and the fix you were offered although not the original owner is why hp is the only printer manufacturer to receive an A rating for 11 straight years for customer service, quality and customer support from PC World, this last year receiving their first awarded A+ rating. There are a few things that may cause the problem you are having with your printer, time, natural wear-and-tear, and abuse by the original owner using regular copy paper instead of laser paper. Regular copy paper has a lot more "lint" content than laser paper which is designed for laser printers and this is the primary reason for failure of not only gravity-fed paper trays but also front-loading paper trays. So using laser jet paper may be another possible inexpensive "fix" for you to consider. The first thing to always attempt is the alcohol-cleaning of the printer's rollers with a swab. Depending on the climate in which the printer was used, the rubber, as all rubber will, wears out over time, drying out and needing additional care.

As far as buying the Brother laser, I would advise against it, however if you want to experience lesser customer service and an inferior product which will cost you more over time, go for it, it's really up to you. In the last few weeks, a number of Brother's line of laser printers have been recalled by the manufacturer.

A few points to consider:
hp invented the laserjet and their quality is second to none,

hp spends over 500 million every year on R & D on their technologies in printers alone,

hp has over 100 patents on their printer technologies alone,

hp even manufacturers their own toner, believe it, even the toner...

hp spends the time to manufacturer magnetic seals into their new toner cartridges,

hp spends the time to invest in technology that prevents having to shake the cartridge to distribute toner evenly in new cartridges,

hp spends time to have more precise toner placement by ensuring that EACH GRAIN of toner is of a uniform size (tetrahydron), shape and much smaller than other generic toner,

hp cartridges benefit customers by not having that LINE develop somewhere on the page that remanufactured toner cartridges develop and at somepoint after using these you have to PAY someone to SERVICE your machine,

with smaller and uniform toner size, the hp laserjets will save you energy costs over time because it requires less heat, and therefore less energy to fuse the toner to the page,

hp even invests in making the gears that feed the paper of a particular shape so that it feeds the paper in a straighter line than other manufacturers printers,

I think you get the picture,... there is much quality that goes into your hp printer, don't let your own personal frustration overshadow the reality of the situation of how much quality goes into your product and how you will experience much more frustation, as well as incur a hemorraging wallet from choosing an inferior Brother laser, or Minolta for that matter...

Peace.

[ux4484]

end HP worship rant :roll:


Clearly, kati indicated she only wanted something to last until she was done with school. My Brother 1240 (same but slower than the 1440) is two years old, and has never had any type of problem. Yes I can say this of our many HP lasers at work, but I paid only a fraction for the same level of print quality and reliability.

The HP "roller kit" is not a install for the non-mechanically inclined.

You don't have to pay more for something to have the same fuction of usability......which is why I have a Dell Axim and not a HiPaq.

BTW....I'm a tech with 20+ years of experiance......I know from which I speak.

[skypilot]

Looks like I'll be picking up a Brother laser printer soon.
Excuse me, but if you think your experience with HP printer support was frustrating, just wait for the Brother experience.

IMHO, HP has the best printer support [even with your experience]. I have purchased and installed dozens, if not hundreds of printers for my clients, and the only support worse than Brother's was NEC [which was non-existent].

Lexmark has decent, if not good support, but all Brother has are good feature sets and the fact they make a great PTTouch label machine. If you need any assistance, information or troubleshooting, you are on your own.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.......

Larry

[ux4484]

please note than when you pay a fraction of the cost for a device, it become infinatley more expendable when it has a problem. If kati had bought a Brother from the start, she'd still be two hundred bucks ahead of the game if she had a problem with it, not to mention half the cost for toner consumables.

[hulksmash]

[quote="ux4484"]end HP worship rant :roll:


Uhhh, dude, that was not a rant, but merely a statement of the facts as I am aware of them. I believe that by your erronious assumption of it as such and your taking it personal, as if you were Brother yourself and duly offended you have qualified your post and reply to my post as a "rant." :crazyeyes: Peace, and to the originator of the post, I hope the facts that I posted help you out a little. By the way, the roller kit is a free one I believe, and perhaps you could have someone assist you with it since it comes with instructions. Good luck.

[hulksmash]

OMG, dude is hard-up on Brother and "infinite"-ly ranting on trying to convince everyone to buy them like he mistakenly does. LMAO. And he had the audacity to accuse my objective post as a "rant?!?" LMAO :bad-words:

[ux4484]

*sigh*......children

[hulksmash]

*sigh*......children

...

[Steven Cedrone]

hulksmash, ux4484...

Take it off-line...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[Janak Parekh]

Looks like I'll be picking up a Brother laser printer soon.
Excuse me, but if you think your experience with HP printer support was frustrating, just wait for the Brother experience.
Same here. The 6L was a DOA, unfortunately. Some of their newer units are much better, and in general, I've tried many different printer manufacturers and always ended back up with HP.

I hate to say this, but all the printer manufacturers have their own sets of issues. I used to repair Okidata (dot-matrix and laser) printers, and they had their own sets of repeatable, frequent problems. I've also seen Brothers, Xeroxes, etc. Of course, your mileage may vary.

But in any case, good luck with whichever decision you go for. I'd consider, though, before spending money writing a letter to the president/CEO of HP, in great detail. That tends to make things propagate up several levels...

--janak

[Kati Compton]

Try calling again and requesting a "roller kit."
I'll try - but not if I have to pay more than shipping.

I think you mentioned that you bought it used
No - it was new. I bought it at Best Buy.

If you go to any university, you will find many hp laser printers there, almost exclusively, and most are probably about 15 yrs old and still going.

Those are more the business machines, not the personal laser printers. There could be a big difference due to that. Plus, those are cartridge-fed.

This and the fix you were offered although not the original owner is why hp is the only printer manufacturer to receive an A rating

I am the original owner. The fix they offered was due to customer complaints or the class action lawsuit over the printer. It didn't fix my printer - it broke it. To me, that doesn't get them high marks.

laser paper which is designed for laser printers and this is the primary reason for failure of not only gravity-fed paper trays but also front-loading paper trays. So using laser jet paper may be another possible inexpensive "fix" for you to consider.
I buy multi-purpose paper, usually HP brand. It won't help to use the fancy paper at this point because the printer makes noises and won't take ANY paper without being forced to. It makes grinding noises.


The first thing to always attempt is the alcohol-cleaning of the printer's rollers with a swab. Depending on the climate in which the printer was used, the rubber, as all rubber will, wears out over time, drying out and needing additional care.
This is what I'm going to try when I have time, however, it seems pretty clear that the rubber broke up and is now all over the insides of the machine. It'll be quite a job, and then I still don't have a rubber pad to grab the paper.

As far as buying the Brother laser, I would advise against it, however if you want to experience lesser customer service and an inferior product which will cost you more over time
The toner is cheaper per page for Brother. I doubt I could have a worse customer service experience than HP showing me how to break my printer and then asking me to pay more than the cost of a new printer to replace it with an old one with the same problems.[/quote]

hp even manufacturers their own toner, believe it, even the toner...
So does Lexmark. But that makes for more expensive toner.

I think you get the picture,... there is much quality that goes into your hp printer, don't let your own personal frustration overshadow the reality of the situation of how much quality goes into your product

This printer never fed all that straight. From the customer reviews I've read on CNet and Amazon, many people have had feeding problems with the top-loading HPs.

I do not believe that I will have an inferior experience with Brother. They are highly rated for quality by customers. There are complaints that it is difficult to get through to customer service, but I am not going to reward HP's bad customer service by buying another HP printer after they broke mine. That's ridiculous. If people kept doing that, companies would have their customers break their products fairly frequently to maintain a steady stream of income. I am dissatisfied with the service, and expressing it the most effective way I can - with my wallet.

[Kati Compton]

Janak -

I realize there were problems with the 6L. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a warning that the separator pad fix could cause damage. I simply wouldn't have applied it, and gone on feeding sheets one at a time. Successfully. A multi-feed problem I can deal with after a few years. And in fall I would have looked at HP first.

But for their service to change it from a multi-feed to a NO feed problem. That's something else. Irresponsible at best.

I'm not saying I expected the printer to last forever. Or even to be perfect until fall. If something had "naturally" died on it, I would have sighed, but gone shopping. But it took specific intervention on HP's part to make it break, and yesterday they acknowledged that what they told me to do could break it, but they're not willing to take responsibility. That responsibility would have been fulfilled with a warning when I ordered the pad kit, but they did not provide one. So as a consequence, I feel that they should at the very least be willing to get me back to the multi-feeding status without me having to pay the price of a whole new printer.

It's very ridiculous for them to try to sell me a new or used known lemon printer for more than a new different model.

[Janak Parekh]

But for their service to change it from a multi-feed to a NO feed problem. That's something else. Irresponsible at best.
I'm not debating that at all, and I don't think that their response was excusable. I'd be curious to hear what the success stats on their little retrofit kit was, but that's a moot point right now. All my point is, all of these large corporations have issues, and I've personally had the best experience with HP. I'd probably also switch to another manufacturer if I was in your shoes, and I really do wish you the best of luck. :)

--janak

[Rirath]

Hmm, I get the rant... but really... I can't see how it's HP's fault. I think trying any advice or fix yourself comes with a certain understanding of let's hope for the best.

It was a little kit that they sent you specifically to "fix" the problem. It's not like I went out and bought a little rubber foot from a hardware store and stuck it into my printer. This was an elaborate thing made out of cardboard that helped you to position it in exactly the right place and everything.

Ah... now that makes some sense. Sorry... I was thinking you just went to the local hardware store.

[hulksmash]

My 2 cents of additional advice is to get the name of the service rep that told you this. I don't know how many customer service depts that I have called where the rep was either inadequately qualified, inexperienced, or unknowledgeable and tried to make something up. What I am saying is that the guy you spoke to in your moment of frustration may "seem" like it is HP, but in reality is really just an individual. Many times, the customer service reps are contracted out. I'm not saying that this is the case, but sometimes you are able to escalate the issue one more time and find that what you were told by the previous rep, should not have been the demeanor of any of the reps afterall. I realize that if hp hires them, then they are accountable, but with a company as big is hp is (it was and is the only manufacturer of laserjets, inkjets, digital cameras, servers, workstations, desktops, notebooks, pdas, networking equip, plotters, etc), and it is a REALLY BIG company, even BEFORE acquiring Compaq, that this may also be an HR issue or a training issue on the part of the customer service management. Just a perspective. Good luck again.

[Janak Parekh]

but with a company as big is hp is (it was and is the only manufacturer of laserjets, inkjets, digital cameras, servers, workstations, desktops, notebooks, pdas, networking equip, plotters, etc), and it is a REALLY BIG company, even BEFORE acquiring Compaq, that this may also be an HR issue or a training issue on the part of the customer service management. Just a perspective. Good luck again.
Good point, hulksmash. Compaq was really, really, really notorious for this, much more so than HP. You'd get three different wrong answers before talking to a rep that really knew what they were doing. Do note, however, that Kati tried talking to a supervisor, and such an entity "wasn't available" at the time.

--janak

[hulksmash]

Yeah, I caught that, sounded like she got blocked by that rep who knew his answer was inadequate. I would have insisted on speaking to another manager, and if not call back and ask someone else to speak with a manager before engaging in any further discussion. I think there is a strategic way around even the most inept and crafty customer service reps. :lol:

[ux4484]

enjoy your new Brother Kati :) ;)