Toshiba to Launch $199 Pocket PC in March

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article1.asp?datePublish=2003/02/14&pages=04&seq=12' target='_blank'>http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/A...pages=04&seq=12</a><br /><br /></div>In case Steve's great deal isn't good enough, check this out -- Dell might actually be undercut themselves!<br /><br />"Toshiba, opening the door for sub-US$400 Pocket PCs last June, will launch a new Pocket PC priced at US$199 next month, believing the aggressively priced handheld device could help boost PDA sales and better compete with rivals Dell Computer and Hewlett-Packard (HP), which have launched similar models with higher price tags."

[ShivShanks]

Well this just shows that PocketPC's could reach $100 for black and white models with some effort. If colour PPCs can reach $200 then it should be possible. They could use an older 200MHz ARM (or even newer lower speed ARMs) with no sound and other frills and B&W screens with 24 MB of RAM or something. That could bring things in the $100-150 range. Imagine what the Palm camp could do when this happens. PPC's would have finally beat them in the last category left - low price and entry level models. In fact wasn't Samsung's B&W model just something like this? This may well be the best thing to increase Pocket PC market share. We might just see a huge increase in demand. But for Toshiba last year I would have never bought a PocketPC and known how much better than the piddly Palm I had before. It was Toshiba's $300 price (with rebate) that made me buy PocketPC. This is a good thing (tm).

[MPSmith]

... believing the aggressively priced handheld device could help boost PDA sales and better compete with rivals Dell Computer and Hewlett-Packard (HP), which have launched similar models with higher price tags."

Just a quick correction; Dell launched the Basic Axim X5 for $199 after rebate, so Toshiba's reported price would not be lower than Dell's. :wink:

Their offering double the memory though! I wonder how it'll match up against the Dell otherwise (dual slots, great screen, etc.)

[Gremmie]

Lets hope they keep a similar body style, at least let it use the same cradles, stylus and possibly same case as either the e33x or e740.

[mar2k]

Well this just shows that PocketPC's could reach $100 for black and white models with some effort. If colour PPCs can reach $200 then it should be possible. They could use an older 200MHz ARM (or even newer lower speed ARMs) with no sound and other frills and B&W screens with 24 MB of RAM or something.

Microsoft has a minimum set of hardware requirements for Pocket PC 2002 but still it may be possible. RAM would have to be at least 32MB and there would have to be at least a stereo headphone jack even if no external speaker I beleive.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Great. Tosh really make good PPCs (ocasionally :wink:)

Bring em on! :D

[mscdex]

Heck, have Linux preinstalled on a sucker like that, since Microsoft requires that much hardware for the PocketPC OS to be installed. :D

[Janak Parekh]

Just a quick correction; Dell launched the Basic Axim X5 for $199 after rebate, so Toshiba's reported price would not be lower than Dell's. :wink:
Except: (a) this may be without rebate; and (b) as you mention, it's double the memory. However, you are losing the Transflective display...

--janak

[ThomasC22]

It would be nice to see Toshiba pull out of their current slump. The problem is the screen, Toshiba (IMHO) does not have the best screens in the world.

The way I could see them winning here is to throw an integrated screen cover onto the 335 form factor. That for $199 would put Toshiba back on the map lousy screen or not.

[MPSmith]

Janak:

No argument from me!

As you know, it's hard to make comparisons to the Dell when we know so little about it. But knowing Toshiba, one can make an educated guess about what it'll look like. IMO, they'll need to break away from the rest of their line to compete with Dell and HP.

Who knows what they'll do, but its unlikely that their new PDA will be a complete departure from their other products. It's more likely it won't even have all the features of its predecessors. And that would be bad.

I honestly hope it blows the Dell away, all the better for the industry! We've got to get more people interested in PPC's!

[alcdroid]

The screen is "semi-transmissive" and I believe is what it being used on the Casio E3000. It is something in between transreflective and reflective displays. On the one hand, it should work well either indoors or out, uses a backlight, and probably more more vibrant than reflective screens. On the other hand, it uses slightly more power than transreflective screens and probably not as good visualy.

I'm also wondering what other compromises toshiba made to meet this price point. NAND and/or 16 MB ROM? no SDIO? &lt;1000mA battery? I am also wondering when this will be available in Canada.

As mentioned earlier, this is going to be very interesting...especially with how Palm licensees will react to it.

Cheers!

[dazz]

YIKES!! I just love the falling prices.

BIG thanks to Toshiba and Dell for duking it out like this.

dazz

[PJE]

Hi,

I'd recommend people don't compare the RAM of the AXIM and e350 until the style of Flash is confirmed. NAND flash (like the HP 1910) takes a BIG bite out of the RAM.

However, I do hope the e350 is a nice machine. The more competition at the lower price point the better.

I'd like something like a HP1910 with bluetooth, 2xSDIO slots, 64MB of free memory and a higher capacity battery for $299.... and PocketPC.NET!

My 3c.

PJE

[pocketpcdude1024]

My 3c.

PJE

How unusual to see. Usually people only offer 2c in these forums! 8)

[PJE]

How unusual to see. Usually people only offer 2c in these forums! 8)

It's a matter of inflation... :wink:

PJE

[Foo Fighter]

Semi-transmissive? I hope that refers to a Transflective display. I can't stand to look at another reflective screen again. They are OBSOLETE!!!!! Stop making these damn devices!!!! :evil: :evil:

Ok, rant mode off... :wink:

[toshtoshtosh]

It would be nice to see Toshiba pull out of their current slump.


What slump is this?

[toshtoshtosh]

PS: Semi-transmissive seems to be something in between reflective and transflective, so it should be better than transflective indoors, but worse outdoors.

[cptnshred]

Certainly the lowering of prices is good. I'm starting to worry that if there isn't money to be made, innovation will fade. It's a shame to see PPCs seemingly competing directly on price with Palm rather than just kicking them with features and functionality that people have been willing to pay for so far. I'm a 5450 user, and want to see more and more, not less and less. We still only have one device that connects to WAN, none that utilize USB devices, etc. I want tools, not toys.

[ThomasC22]

What slump is this?

I would consider constantly declining sales and the overall impression that your devices are "behind the curve" to be a slump.

[PetiteFlower]

I would not think that increased competition in the low-price market would mean less development for the high-price market. If you're trying to cut in on the Palm market, you need to get the low price down. That's an entirely different(and much bigger) market then the people who want more and more features and will pay any price for them. But I highly doubt that they would neglect the power user market--after all, they're doing most of the work to convert the palm users! They can develop more then one new product at a time :)

[Jonathon Watkins]

Darn right. If it ain't Foo compliant, there's one unhappy client! :wink:

[Gremmie]

Behind the curve? With one of the first dual-slot handhelds, the first WiFi handheld, one of the first slim models?

[toshtoshtosh]

What slump is this?

I would consider constantly declining sales and the overall impression that your devices are "behind the curve" to be a slump.

They've been in the PDA market a year and a half now and they've captured 5% of the market? What do you mean by constantly declining sales? I'm confused.

[vincentsiaw]

i just love competition, it drive down pda price! :roll:

[st63z]

PS: Semi-transmissive seems to be something in between reflective and transflective, so it should be better than transflective indoors, but worse outdoors.

Sorry if this has been brought up, wouldn't something in that middle, means worse than transflective indoors, but better outdoors? Or maybe I'm confused...

Man we keep inventing new degrees in the continuum between old transmissive (HAST?) and old fully reflective... :)

[ThomasC22]

Behind the curve? With one of the first dual-slot handhelds, the first WiFi handheld, one of the first slim models?

First being the operative word. As of now Toshiba has neither a high end nor a low end offering to compete with Dell & HP. But with their lousy screens, poor WiFi performance, etc... I think you'd find most people consider Toshiba's current offerings behind the technology curve.


They've been in the PDA market a year and a half now and they've captured 5% of the market? What do you mean by constantly declining sales? I'm confused.

Maybe you're confused because you think they're still at 5.5% (http://www.itworld.com/Comp/1235/021029handhelds/) rather than the 3.7% (http://cyberatlas.internet.com/big_picture/hardware/article/0,,5921_1575231,00.html) that they're actually at. Keeping in mind that the 3.7% figure is before the Dell Axim or the new iPaqs showed up at all (in other words when figures come out Toshiba will probably have less as of right now).

[toshtoshtosh]

Thomas, I think you have your "smoothing" coefficient set way too low ;). According to you everybody is in a slump except the company that released a product last. There is only ONE PPC (HP5000 series) that is arguably technological superior to Toshiba's high end model (e740) so I think you're being a bit overzealous with your statements.

PS: The performance of built-in Wi-Fi is actually quite good!

[ThomasC22]

Thomas, I think you have your "smoothing" coefficient set way too low ;). According to you everybody is in a slump except the company that released a product last. There is only ONE PPC (HP5000 series) that is arguably technological superior to Toshiba's high end model (e740) so I think you're being a bit overzealous with your statements.

PS: The performance of built-in Wi-Fi is actually quite good!

I'll give you that "slump" can be broadly defined and I don't think Toshiba is down for the count. I simply think they better have something spectacular under wraps if they're going to catch up. Which they very well might have being Toshiba usually offers a low end and a high end solution within the same quarter or so we can probably expect to see both from Toshiba fairly soon.

My issue is that they have released a new model (that most people forget) recently and it's only improvement was a bigger (not better) screen which doesn't fill me with hope. But then again, you never know...

BTW - I think the WiFi might be unit to unit, all I know is the e740 had terrible performance. Drained the battery in less than 2 hours and didn't have half the range as my current CF card.

[dean_shan]

It's good to see more entry level PPC going into the market. I hope it has the same form factor as the e330 and e740. I like that look and also you can keep the same cradles and such.

[Gremmie]

Thomas, I think you have your "smoothing" coefficient set way too low ;). According to you everybody is in a slump except the company that released a product last. There is only ONE PPC (HP5000 series) that is arguably technological superior to Toshiba's high end model (e740) so I think you're being a bit overzealous with your statements.

PS: The performance of built-in Wi-Fi is actually quite good!

I'll give you that "slump" can be broadly defined and I don't think Toshiba is down for the count. I simply think they better have something spectacular under wraps if they're going to catch up. Which they very well might have being Toshiba usually offers a low end and a high end solution within the same quarter or so we can probably expect to see both from Toshiba fairly soon.

My issue is that they have released a new model (that most people forget) recently and it's only improvement was a bigger (not better) screen which doesn't fill me with hope. But then again, you never know...

BTW - I think the WiFi might be unit to unit, all I know is the e740 had terrible performance. Drained the battery in less than 2 hours and didn't have half the range as my current CF card.

That new model was a carry over from a product they had released in Japan awhile ago, it was an attempt to be revolutionary. Every internal WiFi had poor signal strength, but thats characteristic of all internal WiFi devices. Even the new iPAQ cannot compare to CF WiFi.

[Tom W.M.]

If this price freefall keeps up, I may just be able to afford a Pocket PC! :wink:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I'd like something like a HP1910 with bluetooth, 2xSDIO slots, 64MB of free memory and a higher capacity battery for $299...
I'm just waiting to see who will go to market first with dual SD slots... I can't help but to think it's only a matter of time with announcements of new IO devices starting to trickle out. I don't think both slots would have to be SDIO though. One could be memory only and the other SDIO.

[mscdex]

I'd like something like a HP1910 with bluetooth, 2xSDIO slots, 64MB of free memory and a higher capacity battery for $299...
I'm just waiting to see who will go to market first with dual SD slots... I can't help but to think it's only a matter of time with announcements of new IO devices starting to trickle out. I don't think both slots would have to be SDIO though. One could be memory only and the other SDIO.

Until we see a lot more SDIO cards (camera, bluetooth, or otherwise), I don't see any PDA manufacturers implementing a dual SD slot system.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Until we see a lot more SDIO cards (camera, bluetooth, or otherwise), I don't see any PDA manufacturers implementing a dual SD slot system.
Certainly, I don't think we'll see such devices until end-of-year at soonest. There's certainly appeal... many people want small/slim devices and that usually comes at the cost of a CF slot. If a second slot were implemented as an SDIO slot instead, those devices would not be trading off too much size and/or battery power.

Sounds like a winning combination to me... I think once SD WiFi and SD BT are mainstream, the table will be set. I don't think other devices such as SD cameras will be very significant in such a decision.

[Gremmie]

Until we see a lot more SDIO cards (camera, bluetooth, or otherwise), I don't see any PDA manufacturers implementing a dual SD slot system.
Certainly, I don't think we'll see such devices until end-of-year at soonest. There's certainly appeal... many people want small/slim devices and that usually comes at the cost of a CF slot. If a second slot were implemented as an SDIO slot instead, those devices would not be trading off too much size and/or battery power.

Sounds like a winning combination to me... I think once SD WiFi and SD BT are mainstream, the table will be set. I don't think other devices such as SD cameras will be very significant in such a decision.

Ya, internal wifi/bt, with two SD cards may be able to open up more room on the device, such as onboard camera, or more importantly, physically bigger batteries without being bulky.

[Mr. I Dunno]

Hi, umm I'm new to this site and stuff, and i don't know much about Pocket PC's but i was just wondering if anyone knows if the new toshiba one is going to have slots for SD and Compact flash cuz i heard that toshiba had one like that...

Thanks

[Fishie]

How about a memory stick :twisted:

Oh and i DO know that a PPCwith memory stick actually already exists.

[pdagal]

I hate to say it, but Digitimes has corrected the article to say that Toshiba is "considering" releasing a PDA at this price. Our contact at Toshiba pointed out this correction, and said there are no definite plans when we asked him about the e350 mentioned in the article.

[guilmon]

Toshiba putting ANOTHER low price model on the market is just another reason not to buy from them, for whatever you do buy will be obsolite in three months when they introduce the next low price model.

Fishie, don't count on toshiba integrating memory sticks. Memory stick is a p.o.s. Propritary hardware device owned exclusivly by sony. No way they would license something like this to a competitor.

[Fishie]

Toshiba putting ANOTHER low price model on the market is just another reason not to buy from them, for whatever you do buy will be obsolite in three months when they introduce the next low price model.

Fishie, don't count on toshiba integrating memory sticks. Memory stick is a p.o.s. Propritary hardware device owned exclusivly by sony. No way they would license something like this to a competitor.

I know, I know.

The Acer PPC´s however DO use Memory sticks .