Experienced the Dreaded 'battery drain memory wipe out'...questions:

[67stang]

Well this sunday i went to fire up the Tosh e740, and it wouldn't turn on.
Okay, perhaps the battery drained out... so I connected to the charger. A bit later it came on, and proceeded to the new user setup screens. Screen alignment checks, etc.

Basically it wiped out all of my apps that i had installed, all the settings, and any synced information.

So a couple questions:
i recalled reading about this when i bought the unit, but dont remember where i saw the thread. In any event:

1) Is this avoidable? Is it a problem with all PPC's, just the tosh..?

2) how do you backup all the apps and settings?

3) how do you restore from the backup to get your ppc back to its previous state?

thanks

[smittyofdhs]

So a couple questions:
i recalled reading about this when i bought the unit, but dont remember where i saw the thread. In any event:

1) Is this avoidable? Is it a problem with all PPC's, just the tosh..?

2) how do you backup all the apps and settings?

3) how do you restore from the backup to get your ppc back to its previous state?

thanks
#1 - not avoidable on ANY device. The battery maintains the memory and therefore if there's no battery, there's no memory. Backup batteries will make prolong the time before memory dies but the same result happens.

#2 - use the built-in backup software, or for better results use a 3rd party software such as sprite software's Pocket Backup.

#3 - Once you have a backup file, you just go into the software and select restore....

[67stang]

#1 - not avoidable on ANY device. The battery maintains the memory and therefore if there's no battery, there's no memory. Backup batteries will make prolong the time before memory dies but the same result happens.


i guess this is the part i dont quite understand. Obviously not everything (the OS, etc) gets wiped out. So it seems to me that its not so much a power issue as it is some instruction that interprets no power as a hard reset?! I dont know, maybe i just dont know enough about this stuff...

[hollis_f]

#1 - not avoidable on ANY device. The battery maintains the memory and therefore if there's no battery, there's no memory. Backup batteries will make prolong the time before memory dies but the same result happens.


i guess this is the part i dont quite understand. Obviously not everything (the OS, etc) gets wiped out. So it seems to me that its not so much a power issue as it is some instruction that interprets no power as a hard reset?! I dont know, maybe i just dont know enough about this stuff...It's because the OS, etc. is stored in ROM. The rest is stored in RAM. RAm requires continuous power to maintain its contents - ROM doesn't.

So you next question - why don't they use ROM for everything? It's because ROM is quite a bit slower than RAM.

[smittyofdhs]

#1 - not avoidable on ANY device. The battery maintains the memory and therefore if there's no battery, there's no memory. Backup batteries will make prolong the time before memory dies but the same result happens.


i guess this is the part i dont quite understand. Obviously not everything (the OS, etc) gets wiped out. So it seems to me that its not so much a power issue as it is some instruction that interprets no power as a hard reset?! I dont know, maybe i just dont know enough about this stuff...

When the battery runs out, it's the equivalent of a hard reset...bottom line there's nothing you can do about this except to keep your device charged. Read your manual, every manual I've ever had for PPC devices clearly states that the battery MUST be charged at all times in order to maintain your device.

Another way to look at this... when the device powers up it checks the registry. I'm sure there's something in the registry that tells it the device is "brand new", due to the power loss.

Another way to look at it. When you shut the power off on your PC what happens to the RAM? it's cleared out. If you never shut off the power on the PC, then the RAM (or memory) would remain intact. The PPC is the same way. The memory is RAM, once the device fully loses power, then you lose all in RAM. Also, keep in mind, that even though you switch off the device, it's still powered therefore keeping RAM working.

[67stang]

#1 - not avoidable on ANY device. The battery maintains the memory and therefore if there's no battery, there's no memory. Backup batteries will make prolong the time before memory dies but the same result happens.


i guess this is the part i dont quite understand. Obviously not everything (the OS, etc) gets wiped out. So it seems to me that its not so much a power issue as it is some instruction that interprets no power as a hard reset?! I dont know, maybe i just dont know enough about this stuff...It's because the OS, etc. is stored in ROM. The rest is stored in RAM. RAm requires continuous power to maintain its contents - ROM doesn't.

So you next question - why don't they use ROM for everything? It's because ROM is quite a bit slower than RAM.



Got it, i knew i was over looking something. Thanks for the explanations guys!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Well, while it's true that you must charge you unit regularly, I wonder A) how long you allowed your unit to sit before it completely drained and B) what percentage was the battery at last you left it alone.

If your battery is draining from 50% to dead over two days, something is wrong with the battery!!

[67stang]

Well, while it's true that you must charge you unit regularly, I wonder A) how long you allowed your unit to sit before it completely drained and B) what percentage was the battery at last you left it alone.

If your battery is draining from 50% to dead over two days, something is wrong with the battery!!

well that is what was strange. I wonder if hte media player got left on or something. I usually only have it off the charger over night and while i drive to/fro work. When i wake up and get to work, its usually still at 70% or more.

Friday i drove home, playing mp3's in the car. didn't look at it until bout 9pm sat night. Thats when it would not turn on. So i get the feeling, maybe i left the media player on, and it just played music till it burned down the battery.

anyway, its a new unit (one month) and is fine now... but i will keep an eye on the battery level!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

All PPCs turn themselves on for a short moment at 12 midnight. It's possible that you did turn off your PPC but if you left Media Player laying about, it might have prevented it from shutting back off after midnight.

Otherwise, when you get the chance, fully charge the unit and then disconnect it and leave it off. Check it every hour to see how battery levels are progressing, you shouldn't see any significant movement. If you see anything like 2-3% drop each hour w/o use, your battery is BAD!!

[Roosterman]

All PPCs turn themselves on for a short moment at 12 midnight. It's possible that you did turn off your PPC but if you left Media Player laying about, it might have prevented it from shutting back off after midnight.

I have not heard this before. Would you explain a bit more about all ppc turning on at midnight? Why? Are they looking for a party? :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

I have not heard this before. Would you explain a bit more about all ppc turning on at midnight? Why? Are they looking for a party? :wink:
No, it processes appointments for the next day, AFAIK. There's a Microsoft knowledgebase article on this. Watch next time - your Pocket PC will indeed flash on exactly at midnight.

--janak

[Traveller]

It's not a new thing. Newtons did the same thing but at 3:00am.

[smittyofdhs]

All PPCs turn themselves on for a short moment at 12 midnight. It's possible that you did turn off your PPC but if you left Media Player laying about, it might have prevented it from shutting back off after midnight.

I have not heard this before. Would you explain a bit more about all ppc turning on at midnight? Why? Are they looking for a party? :wink:

The PPC does some cleanup features to the calendar at midnight. Likewise, if appointments rolled over to the next day, this is done at that time.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Yeah, that midnight feature is definitely one of those things that MS can do a much better job of documenting. It seems that unless you're a regular on one of these boards, you'd never know about this. Shoot, I see a lot of users that have been using their PPCs for several months that never knew this.

[Bob Anderson]

Shoot, I see a lot of users that have been using their PPCs for several months that never knew this.

Several months, heh? Hey, I didn't know for two years !!!

Well, that's the good thing about learning... it never stops!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Ha! Ha! You're right, you never stop learning... especially when MS keeps easter eggs like this tucked away... :wink:

[AMR]

:?: Can you store programs in SD or CF cards to avoid this problem?

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

:?: Can you store programs in SD or CF cards to avoid this problem?
Which problem are you referring to? The battery drain or the memory wipe-out?

Storing programs on removeable media won't solve any battery issues, but it can alleviate *some* issues with programs and data. Some programs will continue to work if it's installed on removeable media, but not all. If the programs installed any DLLs or other files in the /Windows directory, then you still have to re-install the app. Games typically can run independently as they typically don't depend on such files, but overall, it's a crap-shoot.

As for data, if you store it in your My Documents folder, you'll get an automatic backup on your desktop/laptop, which is good insurance. Otherwise, you can also store some data files on you media card. Problem is that if you don't back up the card and somehow it gets corrupted, then you're S-O-L!!

[dotcomguy]

In response to the thread starter's first question, here is an easy way to have your PPC backed up automatically. There is a bakup utility included that will allow you to backup to a SD or CF card (if your unit supports either), however if you don't have a card or if it isn't large enough to store a backup, you can backup your entire PPC during synchronization.

In ActiveSync, click Tools, then Backup/Restore. If this is the first time, you can select 'Full Backup' and click 'Back Up Now.' After that, switch it to 'Incremental Backup' and check 'Automatically back up each time the device connects.'

Since I accidentally disconnected the battery to mine, I have had this option enabled because it is a pain to get everything back the way it was before. :)