New Sony TG50 Has Keyboard?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4931' target='_blank'>http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_...ory.asp?ID=4931</a><br /><br /></div>"Information about a possible Sony Clie t665 replacement was leaked to the web today in a FCC filling according to this PCWorld article. The Sony Clie PEG-TG50 features an integrated keyboard, bluetooth and a flip cover. Previous rumors claimed the T665 will be replaced by a new model by end February. The T665 price was just dropped $50, bringing it down to $299 from SonyStyle." <br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/sony_tg50.jpg" /> <br /><br />Ok, I admit it: I'm a little jealous. I want a Pocket PC with an integrated keyboard! There, I said it. I'm not ashamed. I don't want a "clip on" keyboard. I don't want a "snap on thumb board". I want an honest-to-goodness integrated keyboard. I wasn't a big believer in keyboards until I purchased one for my HP565 - and I was amazed. Text entry became much easier - Transcriber might be fine for some things, but its error correction tools are so horrible it was more frustrating for me than anything. Once I started using my XDA with a <a href="http://www.fido.ca">flat-rate GPRS connection</a>, text entry became even more vital. <br /><br />I keep waiting for a Pocket PC OEM with the chutzpah to bring an integrated keyboard to market, while the Palm camp has several to choose from. But that's just me - what do you think? It's survey time!

[paris]

an integrated keyboard would make a device biger, so i voted against intergrated keyboards

[msprague]

Fitaly works for me.

[Janak Parekh]

Paris hits the nail on the head - the Pocket PC platform requires the full 320x240 display, so the keyboard would have to go under that, unlike Palm OS units where they can nuke the Graffiti area. When I reported (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5827) that Hitachi was releasing a CDMA PPC PE unto the market with a keyboard, many of the comments complained that the unit would be too big.

Oh, by the way, it is happening as per the Hitachi unit :)

--janak

[T-Will]

A slide out keyboard might be cool though, as long as it didn't add to much to the size.

[ExtremeSIMS]

That's one thing I miss about my Zaurus SL-5500 - the keyboard. True, it was larger than my e740, but that keyboard made a big difference in text entry. I can thumb type pretty quickly, so it was a snap.

I also miss an integral konsole (terminal with tabs) with my wget scripts for all of my web sites, but that's another story....

[Janak Parekh]

A slide out keyboard might be cool though, as long as it didn't add to much to the size.
Alas, you're compromising thickness-wise, AFAICT.

Mind you, I want the keyboard. I'm drooling over the prospect of the Hitachi unit. But the mass-market wants small units, ergo the (relative) failure of the HPC platform.

--janak

[shawnc]

I have an integrated kb on my Treo 300 and it is great for responding to email and loading contacts. But no way would any type of integrated keyboard work for me when using Word or Excel, which is where most of my data entry occurs.

IMO a kb is similar to a camera. If you integrate with the device you add size and are forced to carry that size around even when not using the add-ons. I like the idea of a sleek device in its naked form and I can accessorize it as I see fit.

I vote no (just in case that wasn't apparent :D) .

[Hans the Hedgehog]

Paris hits the nail on the head - the Pocket PC platform requires the full 320x240 display, so the keyboard would have to go under that, unlike Palm OS units where they can nuke the Graffiti area. When I reported (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5827) that Hitachi was releasing a CDMA PPC PE unto the market with a keyboard, many of the comments complained that the unit would be too big.

Oh, by the way, it is happening as per the Hitachi unit :)

--janak

Yeah, but the Sony is probably 320x320 so that argument doesn't hold. True, it would make the device bigger, but not because PPC has to use the "whole" 240x320 display-- the Sony does, too, whether or not you use a Graffiti area. Just look at the rumored picture... no Graffiti area.

Hans.

[Paragon]

CLAMSHELL!!!

I can't believe that none of the PPC makers have come out with a clamshell device with an intergrated keyboard similar to Sony's. Size really shouldn't be much of a factor with the components that are now available in manufacuring PPCs.......I wonder who will be first?

Dave

[Janak Parekh]

Yeah, but the Sony is probably 320x320 so that argument doesn't hold.
Maybe I'm not being clear... I'm referring to the aspect ratio of the unit. Sony and other Palm OS devices are typically 1:1, while Pocket PCs are 4:3. To keep that aspect ratio with a keyboard, you'd either need to make the device long or the screen small. Neither are hugely preferable. The slide-out keyboard as per the Zaurus SL-5500 is the third choice, and it makes it thicker.

Hopefully miniaturization will help, and hopefully sooner than later. :)

--janak

[brntcrsp]

I've loved using the Pocket Keyboard on my Jornada 56x. I also really like being able to go slim when the occasion arises. By forcing me into greater bulk for only marginal improved text entry is a perceived impedance for me.

[bdegroodt]

I guess that's the real rub of this issue. I want a keyboard too, but I don't want any additional size. I have to admit, last night I spent about an hour looking at the Sharp device on line (More because I'm looking for a unit I can synch with Ximian). Man that keyboard idea is really cool, but I'm sure it's either a bit longer or thicker than I'd want to carry on my body all day.

That said, I'd be totally open to a little thumb board like the Sony Ericsson board for the T28/39/68 that uses blue tooth (Eliminating the need to plug the board into the device and making it uncomfortable to use.).

On a side note, regarding the Sharp Zaurus, does anyone know what the device strapped to this is supposed to be? (http://www.sharp-usa.com/images/zaurus.jpg) Is that a phone? Private message me if you know please. Thanks!

[Janak Parekh]

CLAMSHELL!!!

I can't believe that none of the PPC makers have come out with a clamshell device with an intergrated keyboard similar to Sony's. Size really shouldn't be much of a factor with the components that are now available in manufacuring PPCs.......I wonder who will be first?
Well, HP was rumored to be working on that unit with the fold-out keyboard. If that's compact, I'll definitely go for it.

--janak

[bdegroodt]

What if you could have the bottom half of the device rotate 180 degrees to a keyboard that's on the back half of the unit? Dpad etc on the front, keyboard on the back. :idea:

[Unreal32]

The argument that a snap-on keyboard is superior to an integrated keyboard is ridiculous... carrying one more thing is not a real solution... look at how many people loved the Casio E-200 because it had both SD and CF card slots, whereas most people complain about the iPaq's CF sleeves. Also, if you have a snap-on keyboard, it is just not built to work 1:1 with the unit... I have three in fact, none of which work all that well. What I want, ideally, is a keyboard and scroll wheel combo like the Blackberry... I can type about 60-80 wpm with that thing and my thumbs. If the Hitachi offers that, and has sticky-shift-keys, etc., I'll be switching from Verizon to Sprint. In fact, it is the ONE reason I would have considered moving to a Treo... which is also proof that you don't have to have extra bulk or size just to have an integrated keyboard!

[Boxster S]

I could care less about an integrated keyboard. All it does is add weight, complexity, and bulk.

Besides, the keys are so small it's not even worth it to me. I prefer to use the on screen keyboard or Transcriber. The keys on these things are a PAIN to use. I tried to use the keyboard on Sony's big 'ol clamshell PDA with the camera and it was like trying to thread a needle in the dark with one hand tied behind your back.

If you have hands the size of Mini Me's, then maybe it would be OK, but I find it a useless novelty.

[palmsolo]

Hopefully that Hitachi Pocket PC Phone Edition is released soon. It looks a little big, but also pretty cool. A thumboard is great for IM and short emails.

[donkthemagicllama]

I will replace my E-125 with the first Pocket PC to offer:

1. greater than 320x240 resolution
2. faster memory bus (i.e. 200MHz)
3. compact flash w/o sleeve
4. built-in keyboard (i think clamshell is the only way to do this w/o making it huge)
5. built-in wireless 1xRTT or something similar so it can be used anywhere

[JMountford]

I am not nessecarily for an integrated keyboard. Sony can do it due to the size of Palm devices but the Clie's are still big for Palm devices.

I do think the ODMs need to start thinking outside the brick. It is really tired.


Come on.. some one give me some money to produce a line of Pocket PCs!!!

[powder2000]

I would go for a clamshell unit like the current sony design. Why? It could be designed just like a tablet pc that swivels over the keyboard. The display portion could have the navigation pad and buttons. It seems like such a simple concept to me!

[guinness]

I don't see the big deal with integrated keyboards; they're not even keyboards, they're little tap pads. The Sony's with camera have keyboards that are so small (IMO) they aren't even that useful. I'd probably go the thumb keyboard route as I can type fast with my thumbs (years of video gaming) and I can detatch it when I don't need and to save space. If the OEM's did something like the Tungsten, a slider with the 4 main buttons and d-pad on top, with the keyboard underneath, that way it wouldn't take up any more room and you protect it when not in use. Or a shivel unit, the base of the unit could twist, on one sife the buttons and d-pad, the other, the keyboard protected by a snap on/off plastic cover.

[bdegroodt]

...Or a shivel unit, the base of the unit could twist, on one sife the buttons and d-pad, the other, the keyboard protected by a snap on/off plastic cover.

Hey! Back off pal! That's my idea. :P Seriously, I threw that out there up a couple of posts as a crazy idea. So, I feel good to see somebody else suggest it. Makes me feel like either we're lost kin or our suggestion isn't so far off base.

[Jason Lee]

A keyboard can be built into a device to take the place of the app buttons and the directional pad with out making the device too much if any bigger. I think i would get more use out of a little keyboard than out of app buttons. I do not use the app buttons or the d-pad very often. The only thing that would really suffer would be games and i kinda like using them for media player with the screen off.

I like the thumb board idea. I had the one for my ipaq and now want the targus one for my toshiba. I do use them. I am not sure though which i would rather have buttons/d-pad or keyboard. I wanna say keyboard but i would have to try it and see.

I can definetly see the advantages of having it on the hitachi ppcpe. Messenger, sms, and emails would be much easier. Just don't know... :?

[Hans the Hedgehog]

Yeah, but the Sony is probably 320x320 so that argument doesn't hold.
Maybe I'm not being clear... I'm referring to the aspect ratio of the unit. Sony and other Palm OS devices are typically 1:1, while Pocket PCs are 4:3. To keep that aspect ratio with a keyboard, you'd either need to make the device long or the screen small. Neither are hugely preferable. The slide-out keyboard as per the Zaurus SL-5500 is the third choice, and it makes it thicker.

Hopefully miniaturization will help, and hopefully sooner than later. :)

--janak

Gotcha! I understand what you meant now.

Hans.

[medic119]

Quick Thought.

PPC with Keyboard, Clamshell or otherwise.

Hmm hasn't that been done and the last of them was just phased out by HP? Weren't they called H/PCs, handheld PCs??
Granted being able to hide the keyboard would be nice, but a PPC with a keyboard is in essence a H/PC.

[guinness]

...Or a shivel unit, the base of the unit could twist, on one sife the buttons and d-pad, the other, the keyboard protected by a snap on/off plastic cover.

Hey! Back off pal! That's my idea. :P Seriously, I threw that out there up a couple of posts as a crazy idea. So, I feel good to see somebody else suggest it. Makes me feel like either we're lost kin or our suggestion isn't so far off base.

Ahh, you are right sir! (I usually skim quickly through the posts and didn't realize you already posted that idea). I though of it because of the fact that a slider would most likely be in the way when using the keyboard (main unit on top, keypad in between and buttons would be sticking in the palm of your hand and might make it difficult to thumb tap). A swivel unit should be that hard to implement, I'm suprised someone like Sony hasn't come out with a design like that, they like to do things differently.

[greenmozart]

I know nothing about the HPC; did it have a touch-screen? If not then they are totally different - the interface for the PPC is centered on the touch-screen... it just needs a better input method for many people, including me. I can get by with what's included now, but would love to have a built-in kb, at least as an option.

[toshtoshtosh]

gotta agree with the keyboard people. If that video of the HP 'top secret' device is real, then I think a lot of the anti-keyboard people will convert! :)

[Paragon]

CLAMSHELL!!!

I can't believe that none of the PPC makers have come out with a clamshell device with an intergrated keyboard similar to Sony's. Size really shouldn't be much of a factor with the components that are now available in manufacuring PPCs.......I wonder who will be first?
Well, HP was rumored to be working on that unit with the fold-out keyboard. If that's compact, I'll definitely go for it.

--janak

If they do it right I could be talked into it as well. From the early concept pictures we saw of it, it didn't look to be much more than a PockeTop type keyboard hinged to the side oh a standard looking PPC, making it big, bulky, and not very innovative. If they are going to do it they will have to do it RIGHT...ala Sony!!

Dave

Dave

[dean_shan]

I don't need a built-in keyboard, but if there were a device that was still small and not a brick with a bult-in keyboard. To me size is more important than a keyboard.

[LarDude]

Integrated keyboard? Impacts size
Snap-on keyboard? Often too device specific

Credit-card sized Bluetooth keyboard that could slip into
the credit-card slots of your PDA case? That would rock!
(Next to it would be a folded credit-card sized, bluetooth
enabled OLED screen, for situations when a larger screen
is desirable -- e.g. web-surfing, pocketpc films, ebooks)

[bdegroodt]

Credit-card sized Bluetooth keyboard that could slip into
the credit-card slots of your PDA case? That would rock!
...

That's 2 people! Consider it a marketable device. :D

Seriously, does anyone know if any of the existing implementations of BT on the PPC would support input via a keyboard?

[hollis_f]

I bought a thumb-keyboard for my 3850. I've not even bothered to load the driver onto my 3970. If I'm gonna use a keyboard I'll use the folding one. If I haven't got that - it's faster to use the inbuilt input methods rather than trying to type on those tiny little buttons on the thumb-sized keyboard.

[vincentsiaw]

actually i don't mind snap on solution, as long it's comes free with the device!

[Jason Dunn]

Credit-card sized Bluetooth keyboard that could slip into
the credit-card slots of your PDA case? That would rock!
...

That's 2 people! Consider it a marketable device. :D

Seriously, does anyone know if any of the existing implementations of BT on the PPC would support input via a keyboard?

Ok, you guys have to explain this to me - I don't get this at all. :? What's the usefulness of an external keyboard that would not be connected to your Pocket PC? How would you type with the keyboard and view the Pocket PC screen at the same time? Balance them both on one thigh? :lol:

I'm all eyeballs - I must be missing something...

[bdegroodt]

Ok, you guys have to explain this to me - I don't get this at all. :? What's the usefulness of an external keyboard that would not be connected to your Pocket PC? How would you type with the keyboard and view the Pocket PC screen at the same time? Balance them both on one thigh? :lol:

I'm all eyeballs - I must be missing something...

Oh the old logic and useability argument! Damn!

Seriously, other than standing, it would work pretty much fine. Another alternative could be like the old word processors that gives you a little LCD print out of what you are typing on the keyboard so you can fix typos. If you have a place to rest the PPC, then it's not a big deal, if not, you're right it could be a bit cumbersome.

Maybe the swivel keyboard/dpad combo is a better idea.

[LarDude]

That's 2 people! Consider it a marketable device. :D

Seriously, does anyone know if any of the existing implementations of BT on the PPC
would support input via a keyboard?

Don't know, but isn't there an IR keyboard already available (?)...so it'd be the same
kind of thing (?).

Glad you think it's a marketable device!
:wink:

[gibb-a]

Can you really use the keyboard for any extended amount of time without having to use the stylus to click on the screen? I don't think the increase to the size of the PDA is worth the addition of a keyboard. I agree with the person who said the solution is Fitaly.

[bdegroodt]

Don't know, but isn't there an IR keyboard already available (?)...so it'd be the same
kind of thing (?).


Yeah I believe I have seen such a beast, but the problem with IR is that it requires line of site. BlueTooth doesn't (Within reason.).

[Kati Compton]

That's one thing I miss about my Zaurus SL-5500 - the keyboard. True, it was larger than my e740, but that keyboard made a big difference in text entry. I can thumb type pretty quickly, so it was a snap.

I also miss an integral konsole (terminal with tabs) with my wget scripts for all of my web sites, but that's another story....

I'd very much like a keyboard like in the Zaurus. I like that it can be "put away" when not in use, but isn't an extra thing I'd have to carry and lose track of.

[Jonathan1]

On a side note, regarding the Sharp Zaurus, does anyone know what the device strapped to this is supposed to be? (http://www.sharp-usa.com/images/zaurus.jpg) Is that a phone? Private message me if you know please. Thanks!

Its a CDPD wireless modem.
http://www.sharpmobile.com/default.asp?sid=3683585213120036340300139824

Enfora Pocket Spider™ IIc Modem for the Zaurus Personal Mobile Tool

Based on the Cellular Digital Packet Data (CDPD) network, Enfora’s Pocket Spider IIc, specifically designed for the Zaurus, is a CompactFlash modem that slides into the CompactFlash slot of your device. The Pocket Spider IIc provides security features such as data encryption and error correction for file transfers and messaging.

[bdegroodt]

Its a CDPD wireless modem.
http://www.sharpmobile.com/default.asp?sid=3683585213120036340300139824


Thanks Jonathan. I had my share of CDPD nightmares after Ricochet went BK. Too slow for my blood.

[Mark Johnson]

If you haven't seen the SenseBoard virtual keyboard you should take a look. It's a pretty wild idea - a small "bracelet" (that's not the right word, but I'm not sure what the right would would be) that fits on each hand and senses when your fingers move. I want one really bad, but it's still just a prototype.

http://www.senseboard.com/product.php

[kaiden.1]

Saw a demo of the new sony clie with the camera. Can't remember the model number. (Not the newest one; it's not out yet.)
The guy said that he used to have an Ipaq but switched because it was too clucky in running and he didn't like it. He is a photographer by trake and had a slide show of his portfolio on it. He really showed it off. He had some stuff running on that thing that was eye opening and I was impressed. I tried to show him my AI presentation, but I couldn't keep up to his palm. He raced me in running a few apps on how long it would take to launch certain things and get around the device in general, I lost. My PPC was slow slow slow. I wasn't very convincing and I really tried to show it off. It has to stop and think to much (PPC's really are slow) Even at one point I got a lock up and had to reset. The guy laughed and said that was he got tired of and one of the reasons he went back to palm. He played some of his home movies of he and his buddies snowboarding and even a recorded message of his professor from a lecture at school. The quality was amazingly clear. Even though my PPC could do all the same stuff, it was only clear to see that the sony clie did the same thing faster and better than my PPC. I even tried to show off my PPC with all my neat stuff on it, but his Palm had just about everything I had on my PPC and he could launch it faster and it ran better than my PPC's version. I was none the less embarrased. :roll: Wow a palm swam circles around my PPC.......

[adamz]

I voted no on the keyboard, too. The amount of input I do rarely exceeds the amount of GUI navigation that I do. So Fitaly and Calligrapher are much better solutions since they are not ALWAYS required as a built in keyboard would be.
Besides if you're using both hands to thumb-type.. what are you going to use to navigate the GUI? Hold the stylus in your teeth? The Pocket PC was designed to be held with one hand while the other hand can handle input and navigation through a touch sensitive display.
One reason the Handheld PCs are so unpopular are because they have a built in keyboard and a touchscreen! The keyboards are too small to be usable, and the requirement to swap between a stylus and keyboard in order to interact with the system was too tedious and inefficient. With the Pocket PC, the screen is used as a tool for input, navigation, AND system feedback. That's a much more efficient user interface. Even if you CAN type faster with a thumb keyboard, you're still going to have to navigate the OS somehow and removing your hands from the keyboard is going to slow THAT down.

[Jody Low]

I can input text faster in Fitaly than when using any other method, with the exception of my PC keyboard of course.

[Timothy Rapson]

It looks just like the keyboard on my NR70V. I don't use it. Too stiff. Too small. No sticky keys that I ever could figure out.

I would much rather have a RG50 with softgrafitti as I have now than that keyboard, so I can use FITALY!. It is the bomb.

But, keep in mind that this IS Sony. There will be ten new models out with and without keyboards, cameras, blue tooth, soft graffiti, and a dozen variables we can't imagine yet. How DO they DO that :shocked!:

[Jason Dunn]

What I want to know is why there were only 355 votes - what's going on guys? Vote vote vote! :D

[Foo Fighter]

Ok, I'm not entirely apposed to the presence of a keyboard. But if Sony completely removed Graffiti there is no way I would ever buy this thing. At least give the user a choice. And without the Graffiti block, where are the navigation icons? How am I supposed to access the menu and launcher? I hope they didn't follow Handspring's method of using hardware buttons to navigate the Palm interface. That is really dumb. :?

[kettle]

Once you have a device equiped with thumb board you will never go back. That's how sure I am. I have no problems typing with medium sized hands, I have no problems palming a basket ball etc. etc. I can understand those with larger hands having problemswith regular sized thumb boards. Just incase you guys are wondering, I use a Treo 300 and have no need for a stylus, serious, I lost mine in a dark parking lot about 3 months ago. I know, I know, it's not a Pocket PC, usually I keep my mouth shut and just browse, but I thought I would chime on this topic.

sarvinc

[Janak Parekh]

Ok, I'm not entirely apposed to the presence of a keyboard. But if Sony completely removed Graffiti there is no way I would ever buy this thing.
Well, maybe they're preempting the adoption of Graffiti 2. :D

--janak

[RickK]

I used an HP 200LX with integrated keyboard for 9 years. The PIM software was designed for quick navigation with just a few keystrokes. I can say from experience that it was MUCH faster to do all PIM operations and to enter data using a keyboard than using a stylus. The keyboard was much more efficient. Sure, it couldn't fit in my shirt pocket, couldn't play many games, and didn't have any musical abilities. But as a work tool, it was much better than my iPAQ.

If PPC worked in a horizontal orientation, and companies produced rugged clamshell PPCs with tiny integrated keyboards (like the Clie), there would be a solid market.

With a clamshell design, you don't need a case to protect the screen. And if the OS is navigable via keyboard, you can leave the stylus docked.

The handheld PCs (HPCs) tried to do this, but they were all too darned big. Blackberries and Treos prove that you can do quite nicely with a tiny keyboard. And the advantage over Fitaly is that you don't have to be looking directly at the keyboard to type, nor do you have to hold the unit perfectly still to hit the buttons.

So my vote is YES, give me a keyboard, a clamshell, and some clever OS extensions to allow keyboard navigation.

[Deslock]

I'm not a fan of thumb keyboards. They are slightly faster for inputting via character recognition, but they take up space, add weight, and are not useful most of the time (it's easier to navigate with the touch screen).

BTW, Handspring has an application that lets you input graffiti on the entire screen. A friend beamed it from his Treo to my old Sony Clie T665, and it works great. It also "shadows" your stokes on the screen the way the Sony NRs and PPCs do. Because of this application, the dedicated input area is not needed as much as it used to be (it's still useful for shortcuts). So, while I don't like thumboards, I do think they're a smart move for PalmOS.

Even though my PPC could do all the same stuff, it was only clear to see that the sony clie did the same thing faster and better than my PPC. I even tried to show off my PPC with all my neat stuff on it, but his Palm had just about everything I had on my PPC and he could launch it faster and it ran better than my PPC's version. I was none the less embarrased. :roll: Wow a palm swam circles around my PPC.......
Wow, I never thought I'd see a post like that remain unflamed here for entire day. I do miss the responsiveness of PalmOS. But I'm enjoying the larger screen, DIVX, and the superior gaming graphics too much to go back. Ultimately, Palm was a better tool for my needs, but PPC has proven to be adequate and I'm having more fun with it. If Sony came out with a sub-5 ounce device with 480x320, removable battery, 200 MHz CPU, I'd be tempted. And given how small the HP1910 is, it ought to be possible. But there are no PalmOS devices like that on the horizon.

It's funny that the tables have turned... it was Sony's excellent hardware that kept me with PalmOS. When the Sony T615 came out, it was the only hi-res color device under 5 ounces. The T665 added MP3 and better sound. But now Sony is developing devices that are 6-9 ounces while many PPCs are 4-5 ounces (though the HP1910 remains the only small PPC with a decent screen).

[Deslock]

I used an HP 200LX with integrated keyboard for 9 years. The PIM software was designed for quick navigation with just a few keystrokes. I can say from experience that it was MUCH faster to do all PIM operations and to enter data using a keyboard than using a stylus.
I also used an HP200LX for years... but I was happy to ditch that little keyboard for Palm's touchscreen. Data entry was a little slower with the Palm, but navigating between fields and applications was much faster.

[HOLLYWOOD_]

Having a device that you can use while being "mobile" is a great advantage. Anyone who has ever tried to do PIM entry or respond to emails while moving on a plane, train, bus, or automobile knows the difficulty of using the virtual keyboard of a PPC. On the other hand, the Blackberry with its integrated keyboard and jog wheel makes this very easy. I can even respond to emails while driving -- not that I would advise doing this too often !!!

I love the idea of a twisting bottom with Dpad and app buttons on one side, and a keyboard on the other !!! I actually had this idea when I first saw the Zaurus years ago. [/quote]

[Bosco]

If it has OS 5, it'll be a winner. If it doesn't, they shouldn't even bother releasing it.

If they end up releasing two of the same devices, one with a keyboard and another with virtual graffiti, they'll gain so many customers from people who are waiting so patiently for a T series replacement with OS 5 and virtual graffiti.

TG50 with OS 5 = winner.
TG50 with OS 4 = loser.
TG50 + TG55 (vg) with OS 5 = grand slam.

[Timothy Rapson]

:roll: Wow a palm swam circles around my PPC.......
Wow, I never thought I'd see a post like that remain unflamed here for entire day. ).

Amen to this and Kudos for Deslock for noting it.

[Timothy Rapson]

Beyond my use of the Clie NR, and before my mono Ipaq, I also used a Diamond Mako (essentially a RevoPlus). I found no problem with the stylus always at the ready in between my first and second finger while typing with my thumbs. It is thumboard, not a full-sized fingersboard.

I think the next step up from completely keyboardless is going to be something like that prototype HP/Compaq referred to above or the Sharp Zaurus clamshell model to be released soon with the VGA swivel screen and that is horizontal when opened.