Handheld PC - RIP?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://jornada720club.blogspot.com/">http://jornada720club.blogspot.com/</a><br /><br />Handheld Addict is reporting that the last Handheld PC, or HPC, has been dropped. "According to undisclosed sources, the Jornada 728 has now been officially discontinued. I know that many of you have emailed in to say that your local electrical stores have limited stock. It's a real shame and at the moment there seems to be no official word of any sort of replacement.- Sammual (webmaster)"<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20030110-jornada728.gif" /><br /><br />I am sorry to see this happen. I looked very seriously at a Jornada 600 series back in 1998 but opted for the PDA form factor with a Nino 320 and never regretted it. It just seems no matter what the OS, these small clamshell embedded OS devices just don't last. Psion has given up entirely on the market and HP was the last offering the CE based Handheld PC 2000 operating system to consumers. The 728 was a mild freshening of the 720 first offered in the fall of 2000.<br /><br />Given the success of the Pocket PC and the total disinterest in the Handheld PC by the public, I don't see MS or OEMs spending any more resources on the HPC devices. I guess people either want more pocketability with a PDA device or more features with a notebook that a full version of Windows on it.

[dh]

I've had three devices with this clamshell form factor:

1. A Casio something or other - pre Win CE
2. A Psion
3. An HP with Win CE 1.0

I never really got any use out of any of them. As mentioned thay are too big to comfortably carry around in a pocket, the Casio had limited functionality and the HP was crashing all the time. (Can't remember what happened to the Psion, I might still have it kicking around somewhere).

When I got my Palm Vx, I finally had a device that fitted in my my life, with the result that I use it every day without fail.

The big question is, what to get next. Hmmmm........

[Daniel]

I think that, in this case, Sony had something right. They should have had a tablet mode whereby the machine could be arranged into a tablet. Keep the qwerty-esk keyboard though.

Daniel

[Shaun Stuart]

I think this is a real loss. I have been tempted to buy the 728 or something similar but felt I could not give up my Ipaq. I chose the Ipaq for both business and personal use - I have a keyboard for work during the week and I can carry the Ipaq around at the weekends with no problem. The 728 was to big for personal use and carrying both around AND a mobile phone would be to much.

My view of handhelds is changing since I purchased an SPV smartphone. I am beginning to think that as smartphones get better, they will tempt people away from traditional pocket pc type PDAs - my smartphone allows me to read my email, check the internet, play games and listen to music. I dont use my ipaq half as much at the weekends.

This in turn is changing my view of what type of PDA I would use during the week. The Ipaq was a compromise - I wanted the best I could get for business but the smallest to carry around for personal use. I need a more substantial screen than the smartphone offers and must have a PDA for business. I could now quite easily see myself carrying an excellent smartphone and a good business type handheld during the week.

[FredMurphy]

The Samsung Nexio (current s150 and upcoming s160) could possibly be described as a Handheld... wide landscape screen and optional keyboard. It does run CE.NET as an OS rather than Handheld PC.

Fred

[Timothy Rapson]

This is two of three of the original Windows CE attack on mobile, instant access computing. There was a subnotebook sized model line, this HP 700 series, and of course the pocket PC. I would very much have liked to see a model like this or better yet, the larger model (What was it called? the Jornada 920? 830?). If Dell had joined the fray at that point and sold them for $400 vs. the $900 that HP/....I remember there was a model with a wild swivel screen called the Clio. The Compaq/IBM model was the Z50?

I would have paid $400-500 for one, but not $900.

Well, they are gone and the latest software (TEXTMAKER!) makes the PPC just as useful (for what *I* would do) now anyway.

Are the NECs still being made?


Farewell, HPC Pro.

[wrightca]

Smaller and smaller notebooks just keep creeping up. I know they aren't as small and compact as the HPC, but they aren't far off. The small VAIOs and there's a JVC one here in Germany. It has XP. It looks like a nice 'throw in the backpack' type computer.

I'm sure the PPC was the real death of the HPC, though.

[ExtremeSIMS]

The subnotebook market is just too hot. For $999, you can buy a small laptop instead of a Windows CE unit. I owned a Casio, an HP620LX, and an HP720LX. They were nice units, but the Pocket PC/Palm/Zaurus form factor fits people's lives.
[BTW, still have the 620LX, in case anyone is interested.]

As far as Pocket PC Phones and Smart Phones - I still like sep. units. I have oily skin, and I hate having my PDA have oil on the screen. [Combination American Indian - Irish - Japanese evidently == oily skin]
I also don't want one battery dying, and losing both phone and PDA. Maybe once fuel cell tech catches up with computing tech....

[WyattEarp]

Although I own and iPAQ I will miss the clamshell design. My first of that type was the HP95LX ending with the HP200LX. I got very disenchanted when it was discontinued and replaced with the WinCE 1.0 which in my opinion was a failure on the MS software side until the handhelds reached Pocket PC 2000. But in any case it's a form factor that died before its time. :( Who knows it may just popup again one day. :)

[DarkHelmet]

From my perspective the key failure of this form factor, aside from it's size, was the deadended HPC 2000 OS. In many ways, it was the proof-of-concept machine - i.e. contained two memory slots, a smartcard reader and a built-in 56K modem. My iPAQ didn't come with all of that - but it did come with an upgradeable ROM image. When Microsoft failed to keep the OS in production they destined the device to the history books.
In a perfect world, Microsoft would create one WinCE version with hardware abstraction and the vendors would be freed to build upgradeable devices and not have to be worried that someone would see HPC 2000 as a "negative" in 2003.

[SassKwatch]

I'm kinda sorta of the opinion that this is as much a failure of marketing (both MS and HP) as anything else.

While Billy G has been telling us about Tablets for what, 3-4 yr and they just recently became available, I had never even heard of the HPC platform until **after** I purchased an iPAQ and started visiting various PPC related info sites.

While I am far from a tech news junkie (except for my daily 'Thoughts' addicition :)), I had owned a Handspring Visor Deluxe for over a yr prior to purchasing the iPAQ and had been doing a fair amount of mobile device site surfing during that time. It seems like I should have at least stumbled across some info about these just by accident if any marketing effort at all had existed. Had been hearing about WinCE for quite some time, PPC2000, etc. But through all that, nary a word about HPC.

After I did discover them and did a little reading, I thought it might well have been a device I may be interested in...had I not already made a significant investment in the iPAQ.

Too bad.

[R K]

Well, everyone's been talking about a $400 price tag and now your time has come. The HP Jornada 720 Handheld PC can be found for around $450 - $500 these days.
Just do a search on pricegrabber or the front page of PocketPCThoughts.

[Marcel_Proust]

These are extremely useful devices although not as small.
I think you are all singing the death knell too quickly.
These are used in vertical markets quite a bit as well.
Don't be surprised if they are just clearing the shelves for the 740.

[Tom W.M.]

The HPC isn't dead! You can still buy the Clio (a MIPS based HPC with a 640 x 480 screen) from the Pinax Group. (http://www.pinaxgroup.com/) Unfortunately, the hardware is the same as it was years ago. Only the OS has been updated (to CE 3.0). :(
I have an older one with CE 2.11. It's pretty slow going, but it works well for schoolwork. Even the handwriting recognition works well. I can't understand why everyone that reviews one of the new tablet PCs says that Microsoft's version is so horrible. :?
http://www.pinaxgroup.com/images/clio_c1050_2.jpg http://www.pinaxgroup.com/images/clio_c1050_3.jpg http://www.pinaxgroup.com/images/clio_c1050_4.jpg

[PapaSmurfDan]

I think that, in this case, Sony had something right. They should have had a tablet mode whereby the machine could be arranged into a tablet. Keep the qwerty-esk keyboard though.

Daniel

The funny thing is HP had those way before Sony did. I owned an HP OmniGo (x86 based running geos, a side step form an lx-200) and the screen would fould back and become a tablet. That was a niftly little PDA, with a bit of work you had many dos apps up and running. I allways wondered why HP didn't put these into a WinCE Device as it is a great idea.

-Dan

[BTS]

Well, everyone's been talking about a $400 price tag and now your time has come. The HP Jornada 720 Handheld PC can be found for around $450 - $500 these days.


In Canada it's still hard to find this price (I like to use Handheld Canada). We're looking at $1499CDN for one of these units. If the price had been in the $700-800 range I definitely would have bought one. The screen and keyboard are great to use. No, you won't be shoving this into your pocket all of the time, but it is a great machine to work on and certainly worth carrying around. I hope rumours of the HPC's death are premature - Microsoft could do so much more with this platform if they'd simply promote it and help to get the price down.

[whydidnt]

I always wanted one of these but could never justify the cost. I think the $900.00 price tag effectively killed this product and it's potential market. When you consider the Vulcan being discussed ealier at prices only $300 more than this, it really drives home the point. Hmm, I might just shop around and see if I can find a 728 on clearance at a more reasonable price now. I could easily see myself taking that on short business trips instead of my laptop--especially if I can VPN into the office over the internet, I wonder if that's possible?

[mterlouw]

I think the price has always been the limiting factor for these devices success. If you want to sell a Notebook Lite, you can't charge a Notebook price. There's a psychological barrier there; most people think that if you have a device that's half the size of a notebook computer, with less features (e.g., slower cpu, no hdd, stripped-down OS) they you should be paying less.

One device that might sell would be if they went back to the original form factor (back when the screen resolution was 480 pixels across) but had a color screen and attactive design, kind of like the new Zaurus Linux handheld. Something that you can use as a PDA in tablet mode or open/swivel the display into clamshell mode, like the old HP GEOS handheld mentioned earlier in this thread. This way you could still pocket the device--something you can't do with a Jordana 720--and have a nice keyboard as well. Of course typing wouldn't be as comfortable as on a HPC but that's a compromise I think people would make.

[felixdd]

If anyone from here has seen me on other sites -- they might know that I absolutely loved the HPC form factor, even though I knew it was destined to doom. I agree that lack of marketing is probably the biggest issue here.

In some cases these babies are actually superior to laptops. No moving parts (i.e. no HD), and I defy anyone to run their laptop for 8-10 hours on a charge, because I'm doing that on my NEC MobilePro 770.

It's really a practical little machine. I'm in university and I find this to be the absolute best note-taker *ever*. The keyboard is sweet (near full size -- much bigger than Jornadas), and its instant-on ability makes it better than any laptop. That and the fact that it's as big as a Sony Picturebook!

As for it being hard to type on -- only the Jornada's are hard to type on. All the other ones out there feature either a near-full size keyboard, or a full-sized one. They really are a dream to type on (I find it better than even the Stowaway!)

2 more interesting tidbits of facts (I'm obsessed with these units so I know some stuff about them...).
The Clio is the third fastest HPC, behind the Jornada 72x and the Intermec 6651

And finally, there are still 2 more companies that make HPC's -- NEC (MobilePro 790) and Intermec (6651 -- built in camera and swivel screen that makes it into a tablet as well!)

And for the guy that shops on Handheld Canada -- I bought my NEC 770 for $700 incl. S/H on Ebay.

[OTHHC]

I can confirm that the Jornada 700 series are being discontinued. We had some potential orders to fulfill with these devices but have been unable to obtain anything other than minor stock at least through our normal channels.

We have a couple of Jornada 720's left and that may be it for us in this form factor unless we find an alternate supply.

I personally have owned and used many devices in this form factor and really enjoyed them (Casio, a couple of sharp low-end, two Sharp Zaurus'- ZR5000 and ZR5800, two mobilons - 4000 & 4500, Jornada 680 and 720). Ultimately the portability and improved input on Pocket PC's has won me over for my everyday use but I still think they have a market that has not been fulfilled.

[Newsboy]

The PPC was certainly the death of the HPC. But that isn't stopping me from snatching them up while I still can! I already have a IBM WorkPad Z50, that has admittedly not been used much due to compatibility issues. Won't sync with Windows XP which makes it useless IMHO.

However, I just purchased an Intermec 6651, because I do have a need for an ultralight, ultra-portable notebook computer. The HPC 2000 platform does everything I need. It's a more convenient and easy to use form factor than lugging around a PPC, folding keyboard, digital camera, power brick; etc. Not to mention the higher resolution (800x480), 4 hour battery life, VGA out, USB port, built-in VGA camera, PC Card slots...many things my PPC will never do. At $350, it's a deal that can't be beat. Too bad they couldn't market it as such.

[Janak Parekh]

The HPC 2000 platform does everything I need.
I was going to buy a 720 about a year ago to replace my aging 3650, but held off due to the lack of software. How are you managing it?

--janak

[Pony99CA]

From my perspective the key failure of this form factor, aside from it's size, was the deadended HPC 2000 OS. In many ways, it was the proof-of-concept machine - i.e. contained two memory slots, a smartcard reader and a built-in 56K modem. My iPAQ didn't come with all of that - but it did come with an upgradeable ROM image. When Microsoft failed to keep the OS in production they destined the device to the history books.
In a perfect world, Microsoft would create one WinCE version with hardware abstraction and the vendors would be freed to build upgradeable devices and not have to be worried that someone would see HPC 2000 as a "negative" in 2003.
Wasn't the Handheld PC OS basically just Windows CE? I had two handheld PCs -- a Hitachi based on Windows CE 1.0 and a Sharp Mobilon based on Windows CE 2.0. I think Microsoft just called Windows CE 3.0 "Handheld PC Pro" or something.

I didn't buy a Palm-Sized PC because I liked the Handheld PC's keyboard, larger screen, PC Card slot and modem. Even after my Mobilon's screen cracked and hardly ever worked with the stylus, I could still use most things on it thanks to the keyboard.

I love my iPAQ 3870, but would probably keep a Handheld PC, too. I'd use it for Web browsing, IMs and E-mail around the house, but they'd have to have software available.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I remember there was a model with a wild swivel screen called the Clio.

There were two models that I knew of like this -- the Vadem Clio and the Sharp Tripad. I think Sharp just rebranded the Clio. I didn't know that IBM also repackaged it. They were basically Windows CE tablet devices.

Steve

[Newsboy]

The HPC 2000 platform does everything I need.
I was going to buy a 720 about a year ago to replace my aging 3650, but held off due to the lack of software. How are you managing it?

--janak

I don't use much, if any, third-party software, either in my HPC or PPC. I'm a tutor/advisor and a systems admin at a major US university, as well as a grad. student. All I really need (IMHO anyway!) is Pocket Office, Pocket Outlook, and an IM chat client occasionally.

If you look hard enough, you can find plenty of software that has been written to run on the MIPS and SH3 platforms. I've already accepted that the HPC platform is obsolete (long before this announcement, that's for sure!), and to be honest, you have to accept that fact. Otherwise, you WILL be disappointed. But in terms of dollar for value, particularly with the Intermec 6651, there's no comparison, even to an inexpensive WinXP machine.

[felixdd]

IBM never refurbished the clio. The only HPC they had was the Z50.
There's actually two versions of the clio (forgot the model numbers) -- one was painfully slow while one was quite snappy.

As for software, there's a lot at www.pocketpccity.com. There's also pda.tucows.com and www.download.com -- but by far pocketpccity has the largest selection for HPC's IMHO. Besides they still actually update their archives (once in a while). There are also little pockets and communities out there.

Finally, hopefully everyone realizes that TextMaker was actually made for the HPC first -- and their original intention was to make a version of Excel and Access too. I hope this news of HP dropping out doesn't stop their development -- I'm really looking forward to seeing what they can accomplish!

[Jonathon Watkins]

A sad day. :cry: Lets hope that the 'Top Secret' PDA with rotating keyboard actually gets produced. :?

[Marcel_Proust]

The HPC 2000 platform does everything I need.
I was going to buy a 720 about a year ago to replace my aging 3650, but held off due to the lack of software. How are you managing it?

--janak
most software works.
even the software that doesn't work can be tweaked to work by transferring some dll's over.
read some 720 specific sites, including the one this story came from.
i have a hp 568 and 720 and i run most programs in both.
ironically, the ones i haven't been able to run are ms products like reader.
(but now that i've cracked all my lit books with clit i can transfer them over too.)
hopefully, new devices will run the same os for both larger and smaller device.s

[MPSmith]

There's plenty of software out there for Win 3.0, probably 1,500 or so on various sites (by one estimate) For starters, check out:

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/YetAnotherHomePage/j7xx/j7xx.html or

http://jornada720club.blogspot.com/

I think you'll be surprised. It's rare I can't find what I need for my J720 and the discussion forums are great. There's always someone around who can help you out. Too bad the HPC is likely being abandoned. I really love mine.

[MPSmith]

I almost forgot. This French site has tons of software too.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mettavant/pdalogiciels.htm

:)

[Janak Parekh]

OK, OK, I cave! Should have gotten an HPC. :)

--janak

[MPSmith]

Wanna trade?

:wink:

[Tom W.M.]

HPC Software sites:
http://www.hpc.net is a software directory.
Mobile Painting (http://www1.mahoroba.ne.jp/cgi-bin/user-cgi/%7Enefa/ecafe.cgi) the best free natural painting program I have found.
PDA Mill (http://pdamill.com/products.shtml) has a single, yet essential program: an fast image viewer. Also, the author has created various game packs (Peter's GameBox, Peter's Casino, Oliver's Action Pack).
http://www.pockettv.com/ can't be forgotten.
Tillanosoft (http://www.tillanosoft.com/ce/index.html) has some essential software.
OnHiatus (http://www.onhiatus.com/Software/) has some useful stuff.
Orbworks (http://www.orbworks.com/pcce/download.html), the home of the PocketC programming lang. and interpreter.
Scott's Software (http://www.eskimo.com/~scottlu/) has some fun games.
UltraG (http://coon.no-ip.com/ultrag/en/), another essential graphics program.
http://www.cearchives.com/ is another software directory.
That's all I can remember for now, but I have found many more, so feel free to tell me if you are interested. :D

[Seraph1024]

I think that, in this case, Sony had something right. They should have had a tablet mode whereby the machine could be arranged into a tablet. Keep the qwerty-esk keyboard though.

Daniel

The funny thing is HP had those way before Sony did. I owned an HP OmniGo (x86 based running geos, a side step form an lx-200) and the screen would fould back and become a tablet. That was a niftly little PDA, with a bit of work you had many dos apps up and running. I allways wondered why HP didn't put these into a WinCE Device as it is a great idea.

-Dan

I still have my OmniGo 100 with 1MB Ram. Good device. The screen rotates too. You can find the pic of mine at:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/attachment.php?s=e2122f42e34e7c7cb5f35a1ed9d67441&postid=412788

[Seraph1024]

I just got me a Hitachi Handheld PC Pro HPW-600ET. That is a full HPC Pro running on WinCE 3.0 Why? I can use it as a huge map with my GPS in my car. I already have the genio 550g with the biggest screen PPC. Hitachi at 110 including shipping can't be beat.

Here is the Hitachi link: http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/hpw/hpw-home.htm

HPC is not dead yet. Just dying. The good thing is isn't mircrosoft Mira just a WinCE3.0 device?

[Pony99CA]

I just got me a Hitachi Handheld PC Pro HPW-600ET. That is a full HPC Pro running on WinCE 3.0 Why? I can use it as a huge map with my GPS in my car. I already have the genio 550g with the biggest screen PPC. Hitachi at 110 including shipping can't be beat.

Here is the Hitachi link: http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/hpw/hpw-home.htm

HPC is not dead yet. Just dying. The good thing is isn't mircrosoft Mira just a WinCE3.0 device?
That's not really what I'd call a Handheld PC, but it's very cool. I think I remember seeing this, but, back then, it was too expensive. If you can use a WiFi card in the PC Card or CF slots, it sounds like a great alternative to a Tablet PC.

Was that "110" US dollars? If so, that sounds awesome, but where did you get it for that price?

Steve

[Seraph1024]

yes 110 USD including shpping and extra battery. One of the discount shops in AZ was selling it on ebay and the auction finished without any taker at 150+shipping. I offered them 100 and he gave me 110 + shipping.

There is another one on ebay for 56 right now.You should be able to get it cheap.

Yes it can do CF and PCMCIA HDD or Wifi/Bluetooth.

[Pony99CA]

yes 110 USD including shpping and extra battery. One of the discount shops in AZ was selling it on ebay and the auction finished without any taker at 150+shipping. I offered them 100 and he gave me 110 + shipping.

Sounds like a decent deal.


There is another one on ebay for 56 right now.You should be able to get it cheap.

Here's the link for that if anybody wants to bid: eBay Hitachi auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27970&item=1950964519).

There's also another one being sold with a USB keyboard for about $110 now here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3734&item=3000074702).


Yes it can do CF and PCMCIA HDD or Wifi/Bluetooth.
Do you have the device yet, and have you installed a WiFi card, or are you just assuming that you can because the tablet has PC Card and CF slots?

I ask because I'm worried that finding drivers for the Hitachi processor will be difficult. (I think my SMC WiFi PC Card has them, but I'd have to double check.)

Steve

[Seraph1024]

Mine came with: the Hard Shell Screen Cover, Main Battery, Backup
Battery, AC Charger, Serial Sync Cable, Users Manual, Original
Software, Carrying Case, Screen Protector (already installed), & Stylus.



The device will be shipped next day tomorrow. Hitachi Sh3/4 processors are hard to come by now adays. Some software are still there for us. I don't know about the WiFi but my GPS will work fine. That's all I wanted. There should be a wifi for such device if not, I am fine with a cord sticking out too. :)

L

I just wish when CE .net rolls out this one is covered too. Otherwise, just a GPS anyways.