SD and CF memory

[Computer Ninja]

I'm new to this PocketPC game, and was wondering how people use and how you're SUPPOSED to use external memory.

When I bought my Sandisk 256MB SD memory card, I assumed I'd be using it to store photos and mp3s. However, after installing some software and a few games onto my Axim X5, I quickly came to realize that the built in 64MB of storage wasn't enough, and that I'd have to start installing apps and games onto my 256MB SD card. Is this normal? Can someone give me a quick rundown of how to use onboard and external memory storage? Thanks.

[spursdude]

That's definitely normal. I have nearly all my games and a few other applications on my storage card, along with all my music, photos, and other stuff.

There's really no rule as to how to govern your storage. I generally fill my onboard RAM with small apps, utilities, and important apps that I plan on keeping. On my storage card, I put random apps I'm trying out, all large games, and other stuff as I said above.

One way I think about it is this - All applications that I need at ALL times I keep in main memory, thus if my CF card is away for some reason, my PPC is still functional. Hope this helps.

[Computer Ninja]

Yeah. I feel the same way, I guess. So I guess I'm not as much of a newbie as I though. I figured the bigger games, like Age of Empires, and some other stuff, would go on the SD card. I didn't actually plan on ever having the SD card OUT of the Axim... the CF slot is being used by my Linksys 802.11b card 95% of the time when I'm at home. I love this thing!

[Pony99CA]

When I bought my Sandisk 256MB SD memory card, I assumed I'd be using it to store photos and mp3s. However, after installing some software and a few games onto my Axim X5, I quickly came to realize that the built in 64MB of storage wasn't enough, and that I'd have to start installing apps and games onto my 256MB SD card. Is this normal? Can someone give me a quick rundown of how to use onboard and external memory storage?
It all depends on you and your applications. I have 58 applications installed on my iPAQ 3870, and only six of those aren't in the main RAM (one is in the iPAQ File Store, one is on my 512 MB CF card and four are on my 128 MB SD card). Those only count entries in my Remove Programs applet; executables I copied directly to my iPAQ would raise the count in my RAM.

So you have either

Very big applications
A lot of applications
A lot of data in RAM

or some combination, of course.

I think Ed Hansberry only had thirty-some applications on his 3970.

Steve

[Computer Ninja]

I forgot to include something when I posted this. When I boot up my Axim, it has anywhere from 17mb to 8mb free. I can't recall for sure. What's a SAFE amount of free system ram to have? Is it like a desktop, where having more "room" gives it a bit more performance?

[Job]

Currently, I am using a 128mb CF card. I store MP3s, eBooks, and some other files on it. I never take it out. However, at some point in the future, I am interested in wireless and other extensions to the hardware. I am unfamiliar w/ the dual slots. Did I read somewhere that the SD is not SDIO. I can only guess (w/o taking time to go look it up) that IO stands for input/ouput. If that is the case, does that mean that all MEMORY should be done through the SD slot, and the EXTENSIONS should be done using the CF slot?

[Sven Johannsen]

Currently, I am using a 128mb CF card. I store MP3s, eBooks, and some other files on it. I never take it out. However, at some point in the future, I am interested in wireless and other extensions to the hardware. I am unfamiliar w/ the dual slots. Did I read somewhere that the SD is not SDIO. I can only guess (w/o taking time to go look it up) that IO stands for input/ouput. If that is the case, does that mean that all MEMORY should be done through the SD slot, and the EXTENSIONS should be done using the CF slot?

Yes the IO in SDIO does stand for Input Output, as in WiFi, cameras, BT, etc. And yes, the Axim SD slot is no IO, and so memory is all that will work in it. The good news, sort of :), is there are almost no SDIO peripherals available for PPCs anyway, at this time. The few that exist, tend to have proprietary drivers so that they only work on one manufacturers hardware.

So, yea, currently it is probably prudent to use the SD slot for memory expansion and reserve the CF slot for peripherals (and there is almost nothing you can't get for that). You can also get very large CF cards to stick those MP3 collections or videos on as well, that don't need to be in the machine all the time.

[Computer Ninja]

I forgot to include something when I posted this. When I boot up my Axim, it has anywhere from 17mb to 8mb free. I can't recall for sure. What's a SAFE amount of free system ram to have? Is it like a desktop, where having more "room" gives it a bit more performance?

Can nobody help me with this question about free system RAM?

[Job]

No. Sorry, but I have no clue . . . this is my first PPC. My gut feeling is that it does, I try to keep mine relatively clean.

[Sven Johannsen]

I forgot to include something when I posted this. When I boot up my Axim, it has anywhere from 17mb to 8mb free. I can't recall for sure. What's a SAFE amount of free system ram to have? Is it like a desktop, where having more "room" gives it a bit more performance?

Can nobody help me with this question about free system RAM?

Keep in mind you don't really 'boot up' your PPC, you just bring it out of standby, unless you have just done a soft reset. That is a re-boot. All the things you had running are still running. If you haven't started using the Swictcher Bar, you should. With it you can see all the stuff that is running in the back ground.

Remember the 64M you have is divided by the OS into Storage and Program space. Storage is like a solid state hard drive, Program is like Desktop RAM. Yes, more of that 'RAM' improves performance. Likely you will notice that lack of it really hurts performance. The OS will try to adjust the balance to best serve you but if you have 48M of stuff stored; program installs, big files in My Docs, etc., you are making it hard. That would only leave 16M for the OS to play with.

After a soft rest, 'nothing' running, you may still have things loaded in the program side. I have Calligrapher and Pocket Nav loading at startup, and there are some OS things as well. I would strive to have 15 -20 M free for other things to work in the Program side after a soft reset. When you start filling up the RAM so that the OS has much less than half left to work with, I think you pushing it. Just MHO

[Computer Ninja]

Thanks, that's good to know. I'll try and keep my free RAM at 15-20 megs if I can help it.

[JonnoB]

I keep regularly used apps in main memory (about 10 or so) and less frequently used apps on a seperate 'apps' memory card. I then keep games on a 'games' card (about 50 games!!!) and then seperate cards for music, etc. Each person has their own personal preference...

The fact that many people will load up memory cards with programs is a clear indication that there is a desire for more integrated memory. With the ever decreasing price of memory, I see no reason not to have 256MB and more memory in a Pocket PC soon (while still keeping storage card solutions).

[Computer Ninja]

Yeah, it'd be nice to have boatloads of RAM on these things. In time. They've made leaps and bounds from the original Palm Pilots!

[Pony99CA]

The fact that many people will load up memory cards with programs is a clear indication that there is a desire for more integrated memory. With the ever decreasing price of memory, I see no reason not to have 256MB and more memory in a Pocket PC soon (while still keeping storage card solutions).
I'd love to see a 256 MB Pocket PC, too. However, I'm not sure it would be very cheap. In July 2001, I chose an iPAQ 3650 over a 3670 because I didn't want to pay over $100 for 32 MB memory. While memory for PCs is cheap, Pocket PC memory seems to be more expensive.

For example, Pocket PC Techs (http://www.pocketpctechs.com/i3800up.asp) wants $149 to upgrade an iPAQ 3800 from 64 MB to 128 MB and a whopping $499 to go from 64 MB to 256 MB. (Oddly, it seems if you go from 64 MB to 128 MB, then from 128 MB to 256 MB, you only end up paying $478. :?:)

Granted, the OEM could probably design a Pocket PC so the RAM wouldn't be that expensive, but it wouldn't surprise me if a 256 MB Pocket PC cost at least $200 more than a 64 MB version. A $499 Dell with 256 MB might be OK, but a $900 iPAQ? 8O

Steve

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I'd love to see a 256 MB Pocket PC, too. However, I'm not sure it would be very cheap. In July 2001, I chose an iPAQ 3650 over a 3670 because I didn't want to pay over $100 for 32 MB memory. While memory for PCs is cheap, Pocket PC memory seems to be more expensive.
Yeah. The market definitely seems to reflect that. Look at the Viewsonic V35 and HP1910... it appears that both manufacterers went with alternative RAM types (NAND RAM) in order to help slim the manufacturing costs...

[Computer Ninja]

The fact that many people will load up memory cards with programs is a clear indication that there is a desire for more integrated memory. With the ever decreasing price of memory, I see no reason not to have 256MB and more memory in a Pocket PC soon (while still keeping storage card solutions).
I'd love to see a 256 MB Pocket PC, too. However, I'm not sure it would be very cheap. In July 2001, I chose an iPAQ 3650 over a 3670 because I didn't want to pay over $100 for 32 MB memory. While memory for PCs is cheap, Pocket PC memory seems to be more expensive.

For example, Pocket PC Techs (http://www.pocketpctechs.com/i3800up.asp) wants $149 to upgrade an iPAQ 3800 from 64 MB to 128 MB and a whopping $499 to go from 64 MB to 256 MB. (Oddly, it seems if you go from 64 MB to 128 MB, then from 128 MB to 256 MB, you only end up paying $478. :?:)

Granted, the OEM could probably design a Pocket PC so the RAM wouldn't be that expensive, but it wouldn't surprise me if a 256 MB Pocket PC cost at least $200 more than a 64 MB version. A $499 Dell with 256 MB might be OK, but a $900 iPAQ? 8O

Steve

There's a point where you should just be satisfied with what you have, right? Although, I watercool and overclock the BeJesus out of my Athlon XP1800+!

http://www.computerninja.com/images/case

[jk]

Being satisfied with what you have...I still can't believe I have a pocket pc in my hand with a 300mhz xscale processor and a 256 cf card and it all costed about 260 bucks. Although more on board memory is a step that should be taken we have come a long way. I think with Dell making such a huge leap other companies will have to either drop there prices or add more memory to compete. The future looks bright.

[Computer Ninja]

I wonder what the X7 will have?

[shawnc]

The fact that many people will load up memory cards with programs is a clear indication that there is a desire for more integrated memory. With the ever decreasing price of memory, I see no reason not to have 256MB and more memory in a Pocket PC soon (while still keeping storage card solutions).

Be careful what you wish for. I suggested something similar to this in another thread and one guy virtually lost his mind :wink: . I think that anyone who uses their PPC for MP3 playback will immediately need memory far beyond what is currently available in the PPC.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

There's a point where you should just be satisfied with what you have, right? Although, I watercool and overclock the BeJesus out of my Athlon XP1800+!

http://www.computerninja.com/images/case
OFFTOPIC: Unbelievable... I build my own computers as well (or used to)... since I travel so much now, I haven't upgraded my own system in over two years and thus haven't kept up with the latest developments... I can't believe the things you can do now...

ONTOPIC: Yeah, I think no matter how much memory or how fast of a processor we have, people will be clamoring for more for quite a while. With digital music files, video files, e-books, etc, even 1GB of RAM would eventually come up short.

Personally, I'm paying closer attention to the growth of SD.

[Pony99CA]

ONTOPIC: Yeah, I think no matter how much memory or how fast of a processor we have, people will be clamoring for more for quite a while. With digital music files, video files, e-books, etc, even 1GB of RAM would eventually come up short.

Personally, I'm paying closer attention to the growth of SD.
Personally, I think 256 MB RAM would be sufficient for my needs for a while. (Famous last words, I know. :-)) It would allow me to store all of my applications (except maybe my GPS and maps) in RAM. That would ensure that I always have my applications with me, and would avoid the disappearing Start menu icons that you get when programs are stored on external storage. It would also allow me to store the data that I need to keep synchronized in RAM.

I'd store most of my eBooks and MP3s, which I don't need to keep synchronized, on SD, because my iPAQ 3870 has an SD slot, so my iPAQ doesn't get any bigger using that. My current 128 MB SD card is too small for that. I have 256 MB of MP3s, over 25 MB of eBooks, almost 20 MB of Pocket Streets maps and almost 10 MB of video, so I'd like at least a 512 MB SD card.

I'd keep my Pocket CoPilot maps and points of interest on a large CF card, because the NavMan sleeve has a CF slot. My 512 MB CF card should be sufficient for that. In fact, if I removed the 248 MB of MP3 files from this card, I could probably get most of the western U.S. on there.

Of course, we all want everything bigger, faster and cheaper. :-)

Steve

[Computer Ninja]

I wish SD was a little faster. Mine seems to be so slow. I have Sandisk.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I wish SD was a little faster. Mine seems to be so slow. I have Sandisk.
What size? ...I've heard that the 256MB (and higher) are up to 4x faster than those that are 128MB and less.

I have a Lexar 256 and it's surprisingly fast!!

The other thing to consider is that SanDisk is known for producing media that is slower (sometimes considerably slower) than the competition.

[Computer Ninja]

Mine is 256MB. I guess I got something that is "considerably slower than the competition". BOO HOO HOO.

[LorryDriver71]

There's a point where you should just be satisfied with what you have, right? Although, I watercool and overclock the BeJesus out of my Athlon XP1800+!

http://www.computerninja.com/images/case

Do you not have a sound card?
I can only see one in there and I'm pressuming its a graphics card. (Because you should have a graphics card and its on top so it should be AGP.)

[Computer Ninja]

I have the Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard. It comes with onboard audio, 2 network cards, USB2.0, and Firewire!

It's a great board! Has the nVidia nForce2 chipset.