Two More WinCE PDA Phones We'll Probably Never See

[Janak Parekh]

The two phones below are yet more evidence of the tremendous interest in hybrid PDA/cell phone combinations. They're not the same (the one on the left is a Samsung XScale Pocket PC Phone with a TV Tuner, GPS, and cdma2000 1xEV-DO, while the one on the right is a WinCE/Linux StrongARM unit with a 4" display and cdma2000 1xRTT), but they have one thing in common: they're slated to be available this quarter in Korea, but there's no guarantee they'll appear anywhere else (read: they won't)...<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/twowincephones.jpg" /><br /><br />... which leads to my mini-rant: if the CDMA (or even GSM) vendors really wanted to see data services take off, they should be much more rapid in bringing next-generation technology that actually makes it <i>easy</i> to use their services here. As of now, Verizon or Sprint don't even offer a Bluetooth phone with their 1xRTT networks, and then they wonder why people aren't adopting the service. :evil:<br /><br />In any case, if you wish to drool further, more information on the <a href="http://mobile.burn.com/review.jsp?Id=199">Samsung</a> and <a href="http://pdabistro.hostsync.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1378&mode=&order=0">Sewon</a> units is available.

[bdegroodt]

Is Apple going to have to be the vendor that steps in and designs one of these phones that is something actually worth holding? What is with the terrible designs of these things? I have an larger than normal hand, so holding an XDA for a phone call wasn't too terrible for me, but I'd imagine it's not so hot for a smaller hand. How about some curves?

[rbrome]

Actually, that Samsung M400 sports 1xEV-DO, a much more advanced standard than the 1xRTT used by Verizon and Sprint. 1xEV-DO provides speeds of up up to 2.4 mbps (2,400 kbps), compared to the 144 kbps peak of 1xRTT.

Of course, 1xEV-DO requires a dedicated slice of radio spectrum, which Verizon just doesn't have to spare in many areas. They are running trails of it in San Diego and Washington, DC, but some recent public statements by Verizon executives indicate that they've put it on the back burner for now.

Sprint, meanwhile, is skipping 1xEV-DO and going straight to 1xEV-DV in late 2004, which will offer 3-4 mbps speeds, and doesn't require separate spectrum.

But fortunately for us, Samsung and Sprint are preparing to introduce the i700 in a few months, which is basically the 1xRTT version of the M400. The specs aren't as spectacular, but it's the same form factor, complete with swivel camera.

[Janak Parekh]

Rich,

Glad to see you've joined the community! :)

Actually, that Samsung M400 sports 1xEV-DO, a much more advanced standard than the 1xRTT used by Verizon and Sprint. 1xEV-DO provides speeds of up up to 2.4 mbps (2,400 kbps), compared to the 144 kbps peak of 1xRTT.
Oops, thanks for the clarification... I've made a correction. :oops:

Of course, 1xEV-DO requires a dedicated slice of radio spectrum, which Verizon just doesn't have to spare in many areas. They are running trails of it in San Diego and Washington, DC, but some recent public statements by Verizon executives indicate that they've put it on the back burner for now.
That's what I've seen, and was part of my point: Verizon cited that lack of adoption of their 1xRTT network was a reason, i.e., 1xRTT is "sufficient" for now.

Sprint, meanwhile, is skipping 1xEV-DO and going straight to 1xEV-DV in late 2004, which will offer 3-4 mbps speeds, and doesn't require separate spectrum.
I assume "DV" means data + voice?

But fortunately for us, Samsung and Sprint are preparing to introduce the i700 in a few months, which is basically the 1xRTT version of the M400. The specs aren't as spectacular, but it's the same form factor, complete with swivel camera.
The question is when it will actually come out, of course. Sprint has fortunately become more aggressive in releasing phones, but the i700 could make a mess of their all-you-can-eat phone-only plan. Verizon, on the other hand, has stayed very, very conservative with their phone selection... and of course their debacle with the Motorola T720's is not going to help.

--janak

[Kati Compton]

Anyone know what size screen's on that Samsung? No doubt out of my price range, but it certainly looks slick!

[Cortex]

i sense the phone companies want to bait consumers with the prospect of doing cool things with the current data plans but then limit the usability of the devices to maximize profits (which i doubt are materializing) for minimum bandwidth. the companies are doing this by offering phones that allow you to send crappy data like low res pictures, wap pages, and ring tones. some sprint thera users say they are getting unlimited wireless via their vision plans which i suspect is a glitch -- since they have separate rates for pda's.

hence, we have been hearing about cool phones like the i700 and those shown for some time now (> 6 months for the i700) but the closest thing we have is the t-mobile xda/o2/htc. i think sprint will drag their feet for sometime to milk people with crappy data for their dinky phones for all their worth and when they do offer the i700 it will probably cost as much as the thera ($500) and require the pda plan ($20 for 20mb/month) in addition to voice....

bottom line, its not in the phone companies best intere$t to offer these devices.

[Bob Anderson]

As of now, Verizon or Sprint don't even offer a Bluetooth phone with their 1xRTT networks, and then they wonder why people aren't adopting the service.

Tell me about it... I go to the Verizon store trying to find something "up to date" (read=bluetooth and other goodies) and they still don't have them! Geesh... No wonder everyone says GSM should be the standard of the world... at least Ericsson and Nokia provide groundbreaking technology when it's still groundbreaking and not "old news."

Verizon: Get your act together... put pressure on you handset makers to get going with something that is modern

[Janak Parekh]

i sense the phone companies want to bait consumers with the prospect of doing cool things with the current data plans but then limit the usability of the devices to maximize profits (which i doubt are materializing) for minimum bandwidth.
Of course, that's shortsighted. If we actually used the service, we'd recommend it to others, who would recommend it to others, and the adoption would grow.

It's like saying "give them a crappy cell phone whose battery conks out in 10 minutes so they won't use their monthly allotment". ;)

--janak

[Foo Fighter]

Ah...Samsung. When first I heard they had licensed Pocket PC, I had high hopes they would become a serious player in the PPC market. The SONY of the Pocket PC world. But alas, it never came to be. Instead they seem to be merely dipping their toes in Microsoft's water.

Come on, Samsung.....design a real Pocket PC that can make SONY look bad! :fadein:

[Daniel]

As of now, Verizon or Sprint don't even offer a Bluetooth phone with their 1xRTT networks, and then they wonder why people aren't adopting the service.
Verizon: Get your act together... put pressure on you handset makers to get going with something that is modern
Well here's the phone:
http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?id=228
Apparently the reason for the lack of BT on CDMA phone sis Qualcomm but I'm not too sure about that. I read somewhere that because Qualcomm have a monopoly on CDMA chips in the US we haven't got BT & CDMA because they don't.

Daniel

[Janak Parekh]

Apparently the reason for the lack of BT on CDMA phone sis Qualcomm but I'm not too sure about that.
No, Qualcomm has been very, very much in the forefront of new technologies. Check out this Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=Bluetooth+CDMA+chipset&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0).

Even more - they already have all sorts of CDMA/GSM dual-mode chipsets already finished...

--janak

[KyleC]

Any idea what OS the right one is operating? The left one looks like it is a Phone Edition but the right one just has a big Windows Logo.

[Daniel]

Any idea what OS the right one is operating? The left one looks like it is a Phone Edition but the right one just has a big Windows Logo.

The original post says WinCE or Linux, I would gues it's WinCE.

Daniel

[Daniel]

Apparently the reason for the lack of BT on CDMA phone sis Qualcomm but I'm not too sure about that.
No, Qualcomm has been very, very much in the forefront of new technologies. Check out this Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=Bluetooth+CDMA+chipset&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0).

Even more - they already have all sorts of CDMA/GSM dual-mode chipsets already finished...

--janak

Ok, but is the BT/CDMA chipset available to OEMs or customers? I don't think it is (probably will be when the T608 comes out) but BT/GSM has been out for quite some time now.

Daniel

[Janak Parekh]

Ok, but is the BT/CDMA chipset available to OEMs or customers?
Manufacturers, of course. And that's where it stopped, strangely. Motorola did release one Bluetooth CDMA phone (but it's not 1xRTT), plus a headset, advertised the heck out of it, and then saw it fade into oblivion when Verizon deployed their Express Network. And they've done nothing on that front since.

Sigh :(

--janak

[Cortex]

Of course, that's shortsighted. If we actually used the service, we'd recommend it to others, who would recommend it to others, and the adoption would grow.

It's like saying "give them a crappy cell phone whose battery conks out in 10 minutes so they won't use their monthly allotment".

--janak

since when is capitalism not short sighted?

[szamot]

ghrrrrrr come to papa - come soon.

[Daniel]

Ok, but is the BT/CDMA chipset available to OEMs or customers?
Manufacturers, of course. And that's where it stopped, strangely. Motorola did release one Bluetooth CDMA phone (but it's not 1xRTT), plus a headset, advertised the heck out of it, and then saw it fade into oblivion when Verizon deployed their Express Network. And they've done nothing on that front since.

Sigh :(

--janak

It's odd really. The US phone system is so messed up it's not funny but they're catching up really quickly IMO. I hope that within the year the US will start equalling Europe.

Daniel

[GQ19]

IMO, what some fail to take into consideration is the massive amount of infrastructure that exists in the US. For a small european country or korea, for instance to change standards or upgade equipment is considerably easier in terms of it's turnaround time and acceptance because the mulitplicity of standards, companies, etc. simply do not exist and the scale of the project is quite a bit smaller than what it takes for someone like Sprint or Verizon to deploy next generation technology. Also take this into account: the US companies always think 'nationwide' they usually don't dare to just upgrade the east coast or west coast or anything in between.. when they do things they do them all at once, hence slowing down the process.. just some thoughts

[karen]

Here in Canada, it's much, much worse. The major mobile phone companies use logic that goes like this:

Urkel: Gee, Fred, do you think those cheap Canucks will ever take to these new fangled pocket computer phone thingees?

Fred: Naw! They never buy these things when we offer them. Time and time again, those idiots cost us a lot of money by not buying the things we buy.

Urkel: Gotcha. Let's price this new Thera thing at some terrible price, like 1,200 freaking dollars AND make them sign a long term contract for that awful price. [ed. True story] Who cares that the Yankees can get the same thing for $300 Canuck dollars?

Fred: Now yer talking. And let's not let the stores actually have a working one on display, just in case someone wants to actually buy one.

Urkel: Great idea! Now we won't have to bear that cost of display inventory, either. Here's another idea...Let's sell them on the website, but not train any of our order people to know what they are, then not allow CSRs to explain any of our data packages, either.

Fred: Hey, data packages...let's charge a whole bunch of money for them and not allow those idiots to share minutes with their voice plans, either.

Urkel: Brilliant! BTW, are we still carrying on with plans to only offer the medium-speed data service on a narrow slice of the 401 (16 lane highway), so that the only place a user can connect at those speeds is while they are doing 150 clicks down the road?

Fred: Yep, and we have strategically placed our towers behind buildings so that a connection is dropped every 5 minutes or so, forcing users to start all over again..

Urkel: Man, you are good.

6 months later...

Urkel: Fred, you were right. Those idiots that we call customers didn't buy those Theras....and the ones that did returned them right away because our service plans were screwed up.

Fred: Told ya. Now, for this next order of new devices....do you think we can still order those unworkable 1990 brick Motorola flip phones from Afganistan on the cheap? Our customers really only want phones for emergencies, only.

Urkel: Yeah, I think so. But couldn't we get some cheaper crap by ordering some of those bag phones from the 80s and offering free weekend nights (between midnight and 2:30am)?

...and so the Canadian mobile phone dominance plan races on....

Karen