Network Dweebs Corporation Withdraws from PocketGear

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.networkdweebs.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.networkdweebs.com/</a><br /><br /></div>Oh boy, I predict this is going to be a hot topic. What do you think about this? Is PocketGear "smutty" or just doing their job selling software? Where's the line of what's appropriate?<br /><br />"We simply do not wish to be affiliated with a site that allows the kind of adult advertising PocketGear does." said the software manufacturer's president, "half-naked women have no place on the front page of a software site that may be visited by teenagers, women, and even men who may find that kind of advertising offensive". Other contributing factors reportedly included the skewing of user reviews - e.g. the ability for software manufacturers to remove negative reviews and display only positive reviews, and the poor performance of the web site's search engine - a tool the software manufacturer feels is below average.<br /><br />All software provided by Network Dweebs Corporation, including its freeware OpenNAP (Napster) client is scheduled to be removed from the site within the next 48 hours. New software by Network Dweebs Corporation including 'Pocket DynDNS', a dynamic DNS client for PocketPC, and the company's up-and-coming "digital media" voice and data software, will not be available on the site. You can look for these products on Handango or other popular Pocket PC software sites."

[golfingtigger]

I'll be honest, I have stopped visiting the site from work because all of this "Strip" this and "Strip" that would show up. If someone walked up behind me and saw that, they would think I was doing other things besides looking for legitimate business related software.

Just my view, even if it is askew.

[Programmer]

Oh boy, I predict this is going to be a hot topic. What do you think about this? Is PocketGear "smutty" or just doing their job selling software? Where's the line of what's appropriate?


I believe they are doing the right thing. It is best to always stick to your morals. I dont care for PocketGear too much anyway. Skewing feedback results removes the whole point of having feedback.

And while I am on the subject of naked women. I think they are great. But I am long over 18 and although I do not get offended at the sight of a naked woman I dont think these images should be easy for children to see.

Robert

[Programmer]

While I am thinking about it what is the best site to go to for PocketPC software?

Robert

[Pony99CA]

"We simply do not wish to be affiliated with a site that allows the kind of adult advertising PocketGear does." said the software manufacturer's president, "half-naked women have no place on the front page of a software site that may be visited by teenagers, women, and even men who may find that kind of advertising offensive".

Yeah, who wants "half-naked women". If they want my business, the women should be fully naked. :rofl:

Seriously, I just visited PocketGear (http://www.pocketgear.com) to see what the fuss was about. There are a couple of ads for Pocket Strip Poker, but the women are fully dressed. They are making "come hither" motions with their fingers, but there's hardly any skin. There's also a rotating ad that occasionally features Pocket Strip Poker, but. again, without much skin.

Interestingly, the first item listed in the PocketGear news feed at this time is Pocket Dweebs saying they're (ahem) pulling out from PocketGear. (The exact quotation is "Network Dweebs Corporation gets fed up with PocketGear".)

I think they're making a mountain out of a molehill, but I have a high tolerance for adult content. It's their business, and they're free to run it as they see fit.

Steve

[revolution.cx]

Who? What company? What president referring to himself in the 3rd person in a press release he wrote? (Not that I'm above that!)

Anyway...PocketGear does have a lot of problems from the search engine all the way up to the fact that they generate far fewer sales than Handango (order of magnitude?). What's a little skin to keep the site floating?

The real question is why this company decided to make a public issue out of this. I'm guessing there's something political about it. It does make a point of mentioning Handango.

It's too bad really because I want to see PocketGear succeed but they don't seem to putting the energy into making the site a grade A venture. Handango is quickly becoming a software distribution monopoly for the Pocket PC and the first and last place many consumers go to for their software needs.

We need 2 players (at least) in this area. If PocketGear shows some signs of life I think we would all benefit from supporting them.

[Janak Parekh]

While I am thinking about it what is the best site to go to for PocketPC software?
Handango's (www.handango.com) pretty good...

--janak

[muaddip]

Gee, I wonder where Dweebs is going to sell thier stuff now?? I mean if they don't like PocketGear because of all the adult stuff, then I can only assume that a similar notice will be sent out about Handango which sell the exact same adult titles that PocketGear sells.

On a side note I find it odd that a company who released a piece of software based off of Napster, which was notorious for being able to download massive amounts of porn, is taking a high and mighty stance all of a sudden. Now, I don't know if the Pocket Napster can download porn since I have not yet got it to connect to any of the servers I have tried, but I assume it can.

Oh well, I can only guess that there is more going on behind the scenes then we are being told and the Dweebs are using this B.S. porn excuse. So goes the on going saga of "As the Internet Turns!"

[mel]

muaddip: Handango does not sell the same adult titles that Pocket Gear does. In fact, Handango recommends developers keep things clean and not upload nudity or suggestive images (this is mentioned in the developer area where screenshots are submitted). And as far as I know, Handango removes offensive titles that get submitted as soon as they are noticed.

[Janak Parekh]

muaddip, you may be right in that there are other motives. I think there is a noticeable difference, though, in that Handango doesn't prominently feature such software on their front page.

It doesn't bother me too much, but it's hard to PocketGear the site to people who might be offended or who are working in a public space.

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

Seriously, I just visited PocketGear (http://www.pocketgear.com) to see what the fuss was about. There are a couple of ads for Pocket Strip Poker, but the women are fully dressed. They are making "come hither" motions with their fingers, but there's hardly any skin.
There was one this morning of a woman taking her shirt off. She had a bra on, but that is too far IMHO. Well, all of them are too far. If they want to sell this stuff, create a /adult section that is not easily accessable or seen. I think the theme sites do this and even require you to prove you are 17 before allowing you in.

Having this on the front page is unacceptable, just as it would be unacceptable to have a woman slithering around Wal-Mart as you walked in wearing a teddie or something. No thanks.

And BIG KUDOS to Network Dweebs for taking a stand. Now, off to their site to see what they sell. :)

[BoiseNative]

I'll be honest, I have stopped visiting the site from work because all of this "Strip" this and "Strip" that would show up. If someone walked up behind me and saw that, they would think I was doing other things besides looking for legitimate business related software.


Ditto for me too. I got rid of the PocketGear link in my favorites folder several weeks ago. Handango might sell the same crap on their web site, but at least they don't parade it on their home page.

[Sven Johannsen]

There was one this morning of a woman taking her shirt off. She had a bra on, but that is too far IMHO.

Haven't watched much prime time TV lately, Huh? And I'm not talking about the shows, I'm talking about the Ads. From Victoria's Secret to Hanes, underwear is everywhere. You see more actual skin on a Bond trailer.

No judgement or support implied here, just that it is not much different than what you see on TV or the Sunday Ads.

I actually went to PocketGear this morning looking for AIM's web address and get a link for Soundz Cool. I must admit their other offerings being prominantly displayed made my search easy.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Haven't watched much prime time TV lately, Huh? And I'm not talking about the shows, I'm talking about the Ads. From Victoria's Secret to Hanes, underwear is everywhere. You see more actual skin on a Bond trailer.

No judgement or support implied here, just that it is not much different than what you see on TV or the Sunday Ads.
That's true. Though there is a difference between advertising for underwear and then clearly advertising a game where the object is to take it off.

AFAIK, PocketGear is not advertised as an adult site. It's a site that could easily be visited by a father and son looking for PPC software. They really should separate that software into a separate section IMO.

[Wes Salmon]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a company that makes an application based on the Napster business model of aiding and abetting copyright infringement, is now questioning the morals of another? :roll:

[Shields up and set to full power] :)

[garrans]

The ads I've seen on Pocket Gear aren't exactly risque. I saw more at 6:30 am on the TV watching "News Radio"

And they sure aren't going to get little Johnny all worked up either. When little Johnny wants to check stuff like that out, he'll find it. Heck when I grew up, no Internet, and somebody's brother allways had some magazine. Heck, in fact I imported the Playboy Madonna edition into Australia and sold "looks" to my mates until a bigger kid found out, kicked the crap out of me and stole my magazine.

If your worried about getting busted looking at pocketgear.com at work because it says "STRIP" all the time its probably because your not supposed to be surfin the web looking for PPC software at work.

If your worried about sexy pictures of women wearing bra's call Victoria's Secret and tell them to stop with the TV ads in primetime. Quit worrying about a 1x1 poor quality picture on the front page of PocketGear.

(Oh and for the record, 1 click from MSN.com on "Sexy Gifts" gets me to "Fredericks of Hollywood")

[kaiden.1]

Well you know; Respecting everyones idea of what is too "racey" and what is OK, is really a big thing especially when it comes to sex. Everyone has a different stand and view point and the best policy is to be respectful of others. Web sites can do this by simply remaining neutral and setting up a link instead of posting a photo. Simple to do and no one gets offended.

It is nice to see that people do stand up and I can respect and support that plain and simple regardless of where my views are! Good for them. :wink:

[Ed Hansberry]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a company that makes an application based on the Napster business model of aiding and abetting copyright infringement, is now questioning the morals of another? :roll:

[Shields up and set to full power] :)
LOL! I saw that when I visted their web site. Sort of says "Ok, steal music, just don't do it nekkid. :lol:

[muaddip]

muaddip: Handango does not sell the same adult titles that Pocket Gear does. In fact, Handango recommends developers keep things clean and not upload nudity or suggestive images (this is mentioned in the developer area where screenshots are submitted). And as far as I know, Handango removes offensive titles that get submitted as soon as they are noticed.

Errr...Mel have you actually been to handang o recently and typed strip into their search box???

Granted it is not as blatant as PocketGear having it on the front page, but where there are over 150 hits on the word "strip" and almost 20 hits on the word "porn" you cannot say that Handango promotes respectable software.

[smittyofdhs]

muaddip, you may be right in that there are other motives. I think there is a noticeable difference, though, in that Handango doesn't prominently feature such software on their front page.

It doesn't bother me too much, but it's hard to PocketGear the site to people who might be offended or who are working in a public space.

--janak

First I should say, I've emailed pocketgear numerous times about the apps that portray porn. I'm not against it but it has no place in a pocket pc site. I know it's just an app, but to display the images as they do makes it look like a partial porn site. As one other post said, at work this could get you in trouble.

As for the "front page" that's been compared to Handango. That comes down to site design. Pocketgear displays the links to the apps right up on the front page, where Handango does not. Would it make everyone happier if pocketgear redesigned the site so that the images appeared only after going to the next page? Does this solve the problem? Most likely the answer is no to both questions. Pocketgear and Handango should start a policy to stop selling these types of software, that's the only way to rid the porn from the site. At the very least, take the images out of the app listings so that the user has to click on the link to see the porn.


While I'm ranting on....
The other issue both sites have (and why this porn is always visible on the front page) is that neither site has a program in place to keep the authors from reposting their software even though there was no update done. I've actually tracked it before and from one day to the next, the software that was supposedly updated is the exact same version as the previous day. All an author has to do is set up a routine of posting their wares everyday. If you know .asp, this could be done automatically. Not only does this post the porn up on the front page but it also makes it hard for real users of the site to find software that's actually been updated, or if it's just a repost of the same software version. I spoke with one author who was doing this and he confirmed that he reposted his software everyday just to place it at the top of the page, smart thinking but not helpful to us end users.

just my 2 cents....

[jmarkevich]

I'm pleased that a developer is taking the risk they are.

I was quite dismayed with PocketGear's racy front page when coming from the Palm world. PalmGear, which I presume is their sister site is nothing like that, and has become the de facto Palm software source. While they have a pornography category (I refuse to call it "Adult" or "Mature" because it's neither :onfire: ) they do at least make you make a concious choice to see it or not.

I also would be ashamed to have someone see me looking at that page. I avoid that tone of "entertainment" (Yes, on the web, TV, movies books, etc.). It would make my choice of lifestyle to seem hypocritical.

Honestly, I hadn't heard of the developer before this, and because of this article, I took a good look. Whether it was an attempt at grabbing attention or not, I don't know, but I know I wouldn't see their products at all if they only advertised on PocketGear.

[muaddip]

The way I see it is first off, neither PocketGear or Handango will ever get rid of the adult titles, they are too much of a cash cow. Handango would have a better chance without the adult stuff then PocketGear just because of the large amount of other software and their enterprise portion of the site.

I agree that they should at the least remove the images from the listings and make you go into the product page to view the images. I also think they should seperate the site into a regular and adult site where age verification is needed, it is not hard for a 14 year old to download an adult title and play it when there is no age checking.

[Kati Compton]

I can't say that I am ever "offended" by those types of ads - nor by the x10 "spy on your female visitors taking off their clothes in your house" ads. But I am annoyed by them (esp. the X10 ads, since to me, that's advocating the camera's use for something that either is illegal or should be). Somewhat of a different thing.

In other words, I continue to use Yahoo, and I would continue to use PocketGear (if I were using it already, that is), but I can still appreciate a company that says the images have gone too far.

I'm not sure how I feel as to whether or not there's "too much sex" (well, images of it anyway) in our daily lives. In Europe there's far more and it doesn't seem to be a problem. But on the other hand, it really does put a lot of pressure on women to live up to an ideal.

[smittyofdhs]

The way I see it is first off, neither PocketGear or Handango will ever get rid of the adult titles, they are too much of a cash cow. Handango would have a better chance without the adult stuff then PocketGear just because of the large amount of other software and their enterprise portion of the site.

I agree that they should at the least remove the images from the listings and make you go into the product page to view the images. I also think they should seperate the site into a regular and adult site where age verification is needed, it is not hard for a 14 year old to download an adult title and play it when there is no age checking.


one note on the software.... some of the titles won't show any nudity until the product is purchased & registered. But with that in mind, what happens if the under age person has access to a credit card? At this point, Handango and Pocketgear could be charged with aiding to the delinquency of a minor since they don't age verify. The author of the ware has done their part to stop the porn getting into under-age hands, but pocketgear and handango has not.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a company that makes an application based on the Napster business model of aiding and abetting copyright infringement, is now questioning the morals of another? :roll:

[Shields up and set to full power] :)

LOL!! :lol:

I have no problems telling kids to fight the RIAA by stealing overpriced music!!

[smittyofdhs]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a company that makes an application based on the Napster business model of aiding and abetting copyright infringement, is now questioning the morals of another? :roll:

[Shields up and set to full power] :)

LOL!! :lol:

I have no problems telling kids to fight the RIAA by stealing overpriced music!!

keep it on-topic.... we're talking cheesy ppc porn here, not stealing from the rich and giving to the poor :twisted: &lt;-hey, that looks like the lil napster guy huh?

[JonnoB]

Whatever the moral stance made... I applaud anyone willing to stick out their financial neck to stand up for what they feel is right. KUDOS to any who follow suit.

[Wes Salmon]

keep it on-topic.... we're talking cheesy ppc porn here, not stealing from the rich and giving to the poor :twisted: &lt;-hey, that looks like the lil napster guy huh?

I think it's very on-topic to question the legitimacy of a company questioning the morality of another, when their own morality is in question itself. I actually think it's more on-topic than most would like to admit because it interferes with their file sharing.

And the Robin Hood analogy is total bunk. 1. Most musicians are not "rich" and 2. Anyone who can afford a computer to download music illegally is certainly not "poor". You're not stealing from the rich to give to the poor .. you're stealing from the artists to give to yourself.

I wouldn't be surprised if the political side of this may be that PocketGear.com gave these guys some grief about the legality of THEIR application, so to deflect it Dweebs threw up this whole porn issue.

Last I saw, porn was legal while copyright infringement was not.

[dugn]

For me, the whole issue is as simple as this: A company took a stand. They made the decision to remove their products from a site they had problems with. They made a statement to that effect - and did what they said they would do (and removed their products).

It sounds like Network Dweebs did just what this great country allows us to do; make a statement, back it up with action - all while not violating anyone else's rights.

Ultimately, there were no claims of defamation, liability or injury. No one has threatened a lawsuit. The courts won't waste time on this issue. It won't be on my evening news. No one will show up on the talk show circuit to rant about their position - and no one was physically hurt or injured.

Sounds like everything is status quo for a great country that allows this kind of freedom of expression and choice. :roll:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I think it's very on-topic to question the legitimacy of a company questioning the morality of another, when their own morality is in question itself. I actually think it's more on-topic than most would like to admit because it interferes with their file sharing.
&lt;...>
Last I saw, porn was legal while copyright infringement was not.
Yes, though what's legal and what's moral don't always go hand-in-hand. J-walking is illegal, but I wouldn't think much of a typical J-walker whereas I'd have a problem with a prostitute in Nevada (despite prostitution being legal there).

And the Robin Hood analogy is total bunk. 1. Most musicians are not "rich" and 2. Anyone who can afford a computer to download music illegally is certainly not "poor". You're not stealing from the rich to give to the poor .. you're stealing from the artists to give to yourself.
The musicians may not be rich but the folks making the majority of the money off their music are. For me, Napster led me to buy more albums than I would have otherwise; on the flipside, it also allowed me to take/steal songs from albums that I had no interest in buying regardless. So while there's a lot of room to question the morale ethics of what I did, I wouldn't say that I took money from musicians either.

Anyway, the personal issues that I have with companies are usually morally-based as opposed to legally-based and only those that had moral issues with Napster will likely find the same irony troublesome here.

[smittyofdhs]

keep it on-topic.... we're talking cheesy ppc porn here, not stealing from the rich and giving to the poor :twisted: &lt;-hey, that looks like the lil napster guy huh?

I think it's very on-topic to question the legitimacy of a company questioning the morality of another, when their own morality is in question itself. I actually think it's more on-topic than most would like to admit because it interferes with their file sharing.

And the Robin Hood analogy is total bunk. 1. Most musicians are not "rich" and 2. Anyone who can afford a computer to download music illegally is certainly not "poor". You're not stealing from the rich to give to the poor .. you're stealing from the artists to give to yourself.

I wouldn't be surprised if the political side of this may be that PocketGear.com gave these guys some grief about the legality of THEIR application, so to deflect it Dweebs threw up this whole porn issue.

Last I saw, porn was legal while copyright infringement was not.

wes,

I'm a musician so I know exactly what it feels like to have music ripped off and not paid for. Likewise, about not being rich. I was just making a reference that we should stay on topic about the porn being on the sites. I know there has been posts that reference to this company that makes the napster, and that napster has porn on it..and that's a conflict of interest but the majority of posts have been about the porn apps on pocketgear/handango and if they should be there or not. With your comments about musicians being poor, you again have taken this off course. And now my post takes it even further..... I was just wondering today what had happened to you after you left pdabuzz...now I know.

[Wes Salmon]

I'm a musician so I know exactly what it feels like to have music ripped off and not paid for. Likewise, about not being rich. I was just making a reference that we should stay on topic about the porn being on the sites. I know there has been posts that reference to this company that makes the napster, and that napster has porn on it..and that's a conflict of interest but the majority of posts have been about the porn apps on pocketgear/handango and if they should be there or not. With your comments about musicians being poor, you again have taken this off course. And now my post takes it even further.

With all due respect smitty, the topic isn't porn on PocketGear.com ... as many here have noted, it's been there for a while yet hasn't made news. The topic is one company taking "a stand" against it. To that topic I offered the thought that this company making a stand, stands on shaky moral ground of their own with their Napster like software. The fact that people decided to go into auto-defend mode of Napster and anything like it is beyond my control. Sorry.

I was just wondering today what had happened to you after you left pdabuzz...now I know.

Now you know what? How does anything I've posted in this thread have anything to do with what "happened" to me after buzz? :roll:

[Ed Hansberry]

I was just wondering today what had happened to you after you left pdabuzz...now I know.

Now you know what? How does anything I've posted in this thread have anything to do with what "happened" to me after buzz? :roll:
Well, we know you aren't dead. :wink:

:evilbat:

[smittyofdhs]

Now you know what? How does anything I've posted in this thread have anything to do with what "happened" to me after buzz? :roll:

you are taking everything I say wrong... I was just wondering what had happened to you, if you had started another site or were moderating at another site. I used to go to buzz everyday but since you left it has not been the same. In fact I was about to post a thread over at ppc passion asking if anybody knew if you were around the boards of these ppc sites, now I know you are. So to answer your question, what I know is that you are still here and being involved in the ppc sites. Sorry if I offended you, it was never meant to be taken that way.

now that we've taken up a whole page of bickering, let's get back to the subject at hand....

[Stone]

FYI: There is a new site coming online shortly called PocketPCMall.com (http://www.pocketpcmall.com) :D

[Unreal32]

just as it would be unacceptable to have a woman slithering around Wal-Mart as you walked in wearing a teddie or something.

I'd find it damn acceptable.

Or do you mean I'm the one wearing the teddie? In which case, that'd just be disgusting. :wink:

[JonnoB]

just as it would be unacceptable to have a woman slithering around Wal-Mart as you walked in wearing a teddie or something.

I'd find it damn acceptable.

Or do you mean I'm the one wearing the teddie? In which case, that'd just be disgusting. :wink:

Finally, a bit of humor. Don't you hate it when a very valid discussion borders on becoming a flame war? "Can't we all just get along?"

[Ed Hansberry]

Or do you mean I'm the one wearing the teddie? In which case, that'd just be disgusting. :wink:

Well, exactly what site should I visit now to get that disgusting image out of my head? :pukeface:

[DerekTheGeek]

Just the other day I was on PocketGear showing a friend some software for their new Pocket PC. I was disgusted by the number of Porn titles. While we are at it why don't we call it what it is...it's not "adult" it's Pornography. There is nothing "adult" about getting your rocks off staring at naked women.

Network Dweebs Corporation...I am impressed.

[smittyofdhs]

just as it would be unacceptable to have a woman slithering around Wal-Mart as you walked in wearing a teddie or something.

I'd find it damn acceptable.

Or do you mean I'm the one wearing the teddie? In which case, that'd just be disgusting. :wink:

Finally, a bit of humor. Don't you hate it when a very valid discussion borders on becoming a flame war? "Can't we all just get along?"

I so agree...I'm sorry I ever made those 2 comments....jeez :onfire:

[rogben]

It's a site that could easily be visited by a father and son looking for PPC software.

And? That's precisely the scenario one would hope for... a responsible parent browsing the web with his child, explaining/addressing/enjoying the political, social, or commercial messages they encounter along the way.

--
Roger

[Ed Hansberry]

It's a site that could easily be visited by a father and son looking for PPC software.

And? That's precisely the scenario one would hope for... a responsible parent browsing the web with his child, explaining/addressing/enjoying the political, social, or commercial messages they encounter along the way.
Exactly. Then you can go stick your hand on a stove with your son and explain/address/enjoy the heat, blistering, and nerve damage along the way. Then go stand out in traffic with your son and explain/address/enjoy the foul language, broken bones and internal bleeding. Finally, go into a bad neighborhood at night and walk around until you and your son are mugged. Then you can explain/address/enjoy the political and social message of that.

[uclabruin]

Totally Agree! I sent an e-mail to pocket-gear about their site and told them they were getting a reputation of being the pornographic software center for pocket pc's, they replied telling me they would make adequate changes so as not to be known for that. However, it's obviuos theyhaven't. I also don't know what kind of criteria they use to fetermine what a new or updated program is, since the same ones seem to be on there every week. I think they take ad money from smutty software creators to keep their software on the first page. I believe many people, as I, are not purchasing from them anymore. If basic morals won't force them to change their ways, maybe economic realities will. :splat:

[Isaac]

Just in case you thought Handango was holier than thou, how about a a nude Britney Spears theme 2 pack...which is even worse than PocketGear, because as far as I know, Brittney Spears has never posed nude, so to me, making money on fake pics is about as low and greedy as it gets

For Mature Audiences Only (http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=346&jid=8255XABXBA1145ECAD137967DE7B41A2&catalog=0&sectionId=0&productType=2&platformId=2&productId=50479)

My two cents, PocketGear should move the ads from the homepage, but lucky for them there is no such thing as bad publicity...

[smittyofdhs]

Totally Agree! I sent an e-mail to pocket-gear about their site and told them they were getting a reputation of being the pornographic software center for pocket pc's, they replied telling me they would make adequate changes so as not to be known for that. However, it's obviuos theyhaven't. I also don't know what kind of criteria they use to fetermine what a new or updated program is, since the same ones seem to be on there every week. I think they take ad money from smutty software creators to keep their software on the first page. I believe many people, as I, are not purchasing from them anymore. If basic morals won't force them to change their ways, maybe economic realities will. :splat:

As for the repeated posted of the same software versions, IMHO I believe it's the authors doing this. Not only are the porn wares showing up everyday but so are some others. Kilmist do this, PPCLINK do this, AIM do this with their games also, and the list goes on. Like I said before, the authors do this to keep their wares available at the top of the updated software pages. I understand why they do it, if I was selling something I would want it easily seen for more then one day, and they do it because they can. It's Handango/Pocketgear's responsibility to maintain order and to keep this from happening. This issue actually makes me more upset then the porn issue. I purchase and test software for our company and I need to know when there's an update to a software.

[smittyofdhs]

Just in case you thought Handango was holier than thou, how about a a nude Britney Spears theme 2 pack...which is even worse than PocketGear, because as far as I know, Brittney Spears has never posed nude, so to me, making money on fake pics is about as low and greedy as it gets!!

For Mature Audiences Only (http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=346&jid=8255XABXBA1145ECAD137967DE7B41A2&catalog=0§ionId=0&productType=2&platformId=2&productId=50479)

My two cents, PocketGear should move the ads from the homepage, but lucky for them there is no such thing as bad publicity...

likewise the J Lo today screens. They may have been real (they are from a video but I'm not sure if it was a doctored image or not. I believe it is) or not, but they have no right to be posted for all ages to see. In the USA, if a kid can't buy a playboy, then he/she shouldn't be able to view it on a ppc site either. What's next, pictures of Brad Pitt with his penis hanging out of his pants?

[Kati Compton]

Just the other day I was on PocketGear showing a friend some software for their new Pocket PC. I was disgusted by the number of Porn titles. While we are at it why don't we call it what it is...it's not "adult" it's Pornography. There is nothing "adult" about getting your rocks off staring at naked women.

I don't know. I think it's valid entertainment for adults. I think if someone's ONLY entertainment is of this type they need to find a new hobby... But I don't think the existance of these programs is "bad". I do think that they shouldn't be so prominent, though, for most of the reasons that have already been stated here (ie, inappropriate images for certain browsing situations, not everyone wants to see it, etc).

[Kati Compton]

In the USA, if a kid can't buy a playboy, then he/she shouldn't be able to view it on a ppc site either. What's next, pictures of Brad Pitt with his penis hanging out of his pants?

Only fair, I think. ;) Although I'm not the hugest Brad Pitt fan...

[smittyofdhs]

In the USA, if a kid can't buy a playboy, then he/she shouldn't be able to view it on a ppc site either. What's next, pictures of Brad Pitt with his penis hanging out of his pants?

Only fair, I think. ;) Although I'm not the hugest Brad Pitt fan...

ok, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere, Leo, Ben Affleck....you get the picture. I bet if the tables had been turned and most of these images on pocketgear were men posing naked, all the guys here would be a lot more pissed off about it.

[Kati Compton]

ok, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere, Leo, Ben Affleck....you get the picture. I bet if the tables had been turned and most of these images on pocketgear were men posing naked, all the guys here would be a lot more pissed off about it.

I can't say I like any of those. But maybe I'm strange. No need to keep guessing until you find one I like, though. ;)

See my post on this topic in this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5648&start=60) about themes on a theme site featuring near-naked men. I don't know about the guys on this board (most seem pretty reasonable, surprisingly ;)), but elsewhere that has been in fact an issue.

[smittyofdhs]

ok, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere, Leo, Ben Affleck....you get the picture. I bet if the tables had been turned and most of these images on pocketgear were men posing naked, all the guys here would be a lot more pissed off about it.

I can't say I like any of those. But maybe I'm strange. No need to keep guessing until you find one I like, though. ;)

See my post on this topic in this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5648&start=60) about themes on a theme site featuring near-naked men. I don't know about the guys on this board (most seem pretty reasonable, surprisingly ;)), but elsewhere that has been in fact an issue.

that is a great thread, I missed that one..... has this thread run in course yet or is it going to go all night?

[Oreocat]

From a female point of view (one of the what, 3 of us? :lol: ) Pocketgear is a pain to use.

I've gone there 2-3 times trying to find games, but it's extremely annoying to do a search, or even pull up the game catagories, and to have strip this or strip that every 3rd game listed! And, more the to point, *none* of them are males! Geez, how about a little equal opportunity porn?

Nah, not really, even if there were strip male programs, I wouldn't use them...Just don't think they're acceptable or appropriate, especially since I plan on using my ppc mostly at work, for really dead down times (since the city won't allow us to use the computers for games-even freecell!)

Using adult programs is obviously a personal choice, but it's not something I want to be inudated with when I search for or try to find programs. I feel it should have a separate catagory, something you have to specifically look for, and that is also age restricted to protect children.

When it comes down to it, it's all personal choice. The company marketing an item has the choice of who sells it, the seller has the choice of selling whatever they want, and if the two don't mesh...well, they go their separate ways.

Just my opinion,
Oreocat

[smittyofdhs]

I feel it should have a separate catagory, something you have to specifically look for, and that is also age restricted to protect children.



just like the do in video rental stores....

[st63z]

I'd posted this in another thread just yesterday, but I wish Handango makes it as easy as PocketGear to see past purchases for redownloads/version updates.

At PG I just log in to my account and all purchase links are there on one page. Last I checked I still couldn't do this with H, I have to individually enter an order number to pull up each past purchase. Anyone know why???

Secondly, there's TX sales tax on Handango. Not too annoying with the relatively low prices of most PPC software, but still... ;)

[Brad Adrian]

See my post on this topic in this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5648&start=60) about themes...
At least the one or two themes sites I visit require registration prior to gaining access to "neglige" and "swimsuit" themes. I know that's not really limiting access, but it's a step in the right direction.

BTW, anybody know if PocketGear's sales of their stripper and tease games went sky-high today?

[jzdziarski]

Hi Everyone,

I don't normally do this but since this topic seems to be pretty busy I thought I would log into this board, clear up any ambiguity about our company's decision, and allow you to ask any questions directly.

First let me say that we're not out there with picket signs; Network Dweebs Corp. has no desire to persuade users from visiting and/or using PocketGear. This decision was made primarily to protect our company's standards from being confused with those of the sites we distribute our software on, as well as our customers who visit these sites to buy or after buying our software.

Just incase you hadn't noticed, PocketGear recently removed their adult advertising from their frontpage and have emailed our offices in an attempt to resolve the situation. I'm very pleased to see that the person we're talking to at PocketGear thus far seems to be a stand-up guy, and if we can get these matters resolved, we may reevaluate the situation.

With that said, let me clear up any ambiguity surrounding both our decision as well as our OpenNAP client, which apparently spawned a few threads on this list.

As I previously stated, this decision was based primarily on the fact that we do not want our customers (or potential customers) to think that we condone or are associated with in any way the idea of posting adult advertising on any business-related website. We don't want our customers to have to see it to buy our software, and we personally don't want to see it ourselves. As someone else stated in this thread, we wouldn't like it very much if there were males in these banners, and I know that the female population isn't too crazy about the concept of having female adult ads as evidenced by emails we've received....nevermind issues about businessmen and women possibly violating their company's acceptable office policies, parents who visit such a site with their children or spouse present, and etcetera. By providing our software through channels that could possibly be threatening to a user, we ourselves help to provide a potentially threatening environment to our customers or potential customers. Yes, it is a moral decision, but it is also good business.

Moving onto our OpenNAP client. Obviously if we're going to take the stand we're taking there have got to be some moral implications involved. Piracy and morals do not intermingle. The OpenNAP client is not intended for illegal copying of copyrighted materials, and we make every effort to deter people on our website from doing so. The OpenNAP client was actually designed to solve a completely different problem; some corporations actually use the OpenNAP protocol to privately share company documents, presentations, etc. on their network. This provides a much better method of distributing dynamic documents that can change frequently, and also provides search functionality (not everyone likes running a Microsoft Windows network or an FTP server). After doing some research, we found that there were many legitimate uses for public OpenNAP servers - and that there actually were many public servers providing legitimate uses, including the sharing of freely distributable files, independent artists who distribute their own demo's and such, and etcetera. Yes, it's possible that someone can take our client and use it for illegal activities, but if that breaks a moral then you will need to declare web browsers, FTP clients, Sport Utility Vehicles, and PEZ immoral because they can all be used for illegal purposes (email me if you would like an explanation of how PEZ can be used for a life of crime).

I hope I've answered any questions anyone may have about the decision we made, but please feel free to ask either on the list or via email.

We're going to be coming out with some great products in 03 for PocketPC, and we want all of you to enjoy them without any concern about whom you're buying them from. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any concerns!

Sincerely,

Jonathan A. Zdziarski
President
Network Dweebs Corporation
http://www.networkdweebs.com

[Sven Johannsen]

It's a site that could easily be visited by a father and son looking for PPC software.

No I didn't, that was ekkie in the post responding to mine bringing up Victoria Secrets and Hanes ads with

That's true. Though there is a difference between advertising for underwear and then clearly advertising a game where the object is to take it off.

We must have a different idea about the point behind Victoria's Secrets. It's not comfort. If you've ever tried on some.....OOPs, better not go there :oops:

[JonnoB]

I personally think that the type of content being discussed is gross. Whether it should be there or not is not for me to decide, but I think it is only ethical that a company keep it out of site and not create banner ads, sample screenshots to see, etc... especially for children like my 11 year old who is a Pocket PC fanatic just like me. Keep any such content (if you are going to have it) protected behind some age verification login methods.

[/dev/niall]

ok, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere, Leo, Ben Affleck....you get the picture. I bet if the tables had been turned and most of these images on pocketgear were men posing naked, all the guys here would be a lot more pissed off about it.

Careful with that "all the guys". I'm not offended or upset in the slightest at naked/near naked pictures of men or women. I get upset thinking about the folks who are so obsessed with such things that they ruin their real lives. Getting upset about pictures of women is silly, but getting even more upset about similar pictures of men is even sillier.

There's a reason retailers like Wal-Mart don't display salacious imagery in their stores, and it's not morality. The simple fact is that most Americans get upset (like folks are here) about them and won't shop there. Frankly, I'm surprised that PocketGear puts up with these images for the simple reason that they're putting their profits in danger.

[Desa]

Thank You, JonnoB! We are quick to forget that the protection of our children is the priority. It is a shame that our society NEEDS rules that would protect our children, or insure civil rights, or anything that should be a given. But that is the way the world is.

In a perfect world, a porn site wouldn't exist for little ones to blunder on to, and the man in our lives wouldn't have the "need" to indulge in that kind of thing. But we don't live in a perfect world, and real women aren't built like Pamela or Chyna.

In part, my marriage failed because I wasn't built like Pamela. He loved the porn so much that eventually he became dissatisfied with reality. Porn devalues both women and men (whoever the model may be), and teaches our children that it is ok to "give themselves away". It teaches our kids that self respect and love centers around looks rather than a kind heart or good character.

Yeah, go ahead and drool over it, guys. But take a good look at your significant other's face when you do that. You just might see the emotional pain it causes.

Thank you, PocketGear, for taking it off of the front page.

[Rirath]

Wow, you guys sure are uptight... Reminds me of some rant from Bill O'Reilly. :roll:

[Desa]

8O Um, Who's Bill OReilly?

[Rirath]

News reporter from Fox News.

[MichaelZareli]

What a great advertisiment for Network Dweebs Corporation!
BTW: do you realize how much porn is on the Internet?
Lets email Yahoo, Google, Excite and other search engines to let you search their site ONLY if you are registered AND over 21 years old.
over 18 is just too young.
Actually, I think congress should force MSFT to install Internet filters on every PC. Lets email them! I don't think even adults should see the stuff that is available for FREE...
Also, do not travel to California - the capital of PORN. When you walk Holywood boulevard every other shop displays sexy lingerie. If you live in California, you are very bad man for not stopping what is going on there.
Who allowed Ally McBeal to be on daytime TV?
I think the goverment should put filters on every TV so shows like that or Friends can be blocked.
BTW: who buys all this porn software? Are you...?

[MichaelZareli]

To answer the critcs... I think censorship is very American value!

[jzdziarski]

My reply:

It's not about a crusade against adult advertising...it's about our customers wanting to look at or buy our products, and having to go through an objectionable medium to get there. If they want to go out and find adult sites, then that's what they're going out looking for, but if they want to buy our software, we shouldn't force them to be exposed to adult banners to do it.

[Rirath]

First let me say that we're not out there with picket signs; Network Dweebs Corp. has no desire to persuade users from visiting and/or using PocketGear.

By the way, I'm not against Dweebs at all in this. It's their choice to spend their advertising buck where they choose. I think they're handling this quite well. If news sites want to take this and post it, and forum members start running it into some kind of anti-porn campaign, that's not their fault.

[/dev/niall]

News reporter from Fox News.

Ahem. Billy boy is arguably an entertainer. Certainly not a reporter. That requires integrity. ;) (ducking)

[Rirath]

:lol: Either way, I can't stand his constant rant about morals while showing video clips of everything he complains about repeatedly throughout the broadcast. He went on one too many long speeches about the evils of rap before I just tuned out. Was quite entertaining to see Insane Clown Posse put him in his place though in an interview. :twisted:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

That's true. Though there is a difference between advertising for underwear and then clearly advertising a game where the object is to take it off.
We must have a different idea about the point behind Victoria's Secrets. It's not comfort. If you've ever tried on some.....OOPs, better not go there :oops:

LOL!

Funny, when I think of their advertising, I think of commercials for "shape-forming" items (which would be advertising the underwear itself), but yeah, if I walk by the store itself and look into the window display, I may be thinking in a *slightly* different direction...

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

If they want to go out and find adult sites, then that's what they're going out looking for, but if they want to buy our software, we shouldn't force them to be exposed to adult banners to do it.
...and I think that would be the difference between Handango and Pocketgear...

[Ed Hansberry]

News reporter from Fox News.

Ahem. Billy boy is arguably an entertainer. Certainly not a reporter. That requires integrity. ;) (ducking)
Bill has more integrity than those on the nightly news. They pretend to be honest and unbiased. He is open about his stance.

I'll never forget Dan Rather in the '92 election leaning back in his chair and smiling while saying something to the effect of "and the fat lady is about to sing folks." :roll:

[The Big Jay]

I've gone there 2-3 times trying to find games, but it's extremely annoying to do a search, or even pull up the game catagories, and to have strip this or strip that every 3rd game listed! And, more the to point, *none* of them are males! Geez, how about a little equal opportunity porn?


There is "equal opportunity porn"... it's called "Romance Novels" :wink:

Anyways, I found Pocketgear to be a pain to browse through as well.

[Kati Compton]

There is "equal opportunity porn"... it's called "Romance Novels" :wink:


I think those serve a *similar* purpose, but until they're more broadly illustrated with photos, it's not the same thing. I was in France recently, and at the airport waiting for the plane home I figured "hey - why not get a magazine for me, and one for my husband". There were *lots* of magazines for men. In fact - they ALL were. There were maybe 2 magazines that featured pictures of men.... with other men. Nothing for the ladies.

[karen]

From a female point of view (one of the what, 3 of us? :lol: )

When it comes down to it, it's all personal choice. The company marketing an item has the choice of who sells it, the seller has the choice of selling whatever they want, and if the two don't mesh...well, they go their separate ways.

Just my opinion,
Oreocat

Here's another female POV.

I'm not offended by nekid chicks at all...as a matter of fact, I find the female body beautiful, a real work of art.

However, sites that can't keep the nekid pic "in their pants" mean that I can't visit their pages except from home, even if I'm just looking for a database application or some other business-related software. Even having their pics on my laptop, from home, means that I can't hook up to most of my clients' networks as it is a violation of corporate policy.

I'm annoyed by them the forcing of these things onto my hard drive just by visiting their sites. I'm all for them selling such things (hey, the more the merrier), but not forcing me to view them when I just can't do that.

Karen

[the_rapture]

I stopped shopping there unless I couldn't find it anywhere else because of the content. They should have had another section for the "adult" content, I'm an adult and I don't to view the smutt, they need to call it for what it is, porn, but that's another issue.

[Pony99CA]

one note on the software.... some of the titles won't show any nudity until the product is purchased & registered. But with that in mind, what happens if the under age person has access to a credit card? At this point, Handango and Pocketgear could be charged with aiding to the delinquency of a minor since they don't age verify. The author of the ware has done their part to stop the porn getting into under-age hands, but pocketgear and handango has not.

If kids get credit cards, that's not the merchant's fault. It's either the parents' fault or the credit card company's fault. In fact, I believe that one of the overturned "Protect the Kids" bills from Congress specifically allowed credit cards to be used as proof of age when visiting adult Web sites.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Just the other day I was on PocketGear showing a friend some software for their new Pocket PC. I was disgusted by the number of Porn titles. While we are at it why don't we call it what it is...it's not "adult" it's Pornography. There is nothing "adult" about getting your rocks off staring at naked women.

If you want to "call it what it is", you'd better be correct. There is nothing pornographic about nudity, otherwise all of us would be porn stars in the shower.

Here's one definition of pornography (from Microsoft Bookshelf):


pornography (pôr-nòg´re-fê) noun
1. Pictures, writing, or other material that is sexually explicit and sometimes equates sex with power and violence.
2. The presentation or production of this material.

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

If you accept this definition, strip games are not pornographic, as there is no explicit sexual content. Some games I've seen advertised (such as AIM Productions' "Babe Arcade" (http://www.aimproductions.be/ppc_catalogue_title.asp?product_id=96)) would probably fall in the pornographic category. Also, some definitions of "pornography" are looser (so to speak), such as Merriam-Webster's (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pornography).

I prefer to break things down as follows:

* Adult -- R-rated material
* Pornographic -- X-rated material
* Obscene -- Illegal material ("without redeeming social importance" I believe the Supreme Court said).

Steve