Breaking PDA

[Gremmie]

So, have any of you ever broke your PDA that was under warrenty in able to get a new and improved one?? I am preparing the death of my e740 for a new iPAQ, making it roughly my 11th PDA in the last 2 years. A lot of people argue over the terms of warrenties, here I use my local CompUSA for upgrading.

For CompUSA, the warrenty book doesn't disallow intentional breaks and is rather vague describing any limitations. On the other hand, about every PDA has some sort of voluntary recall or known defect, for every PDA i return, I sometimes return the device under the caveant about a known complaint so that CompUSA can be refunded the money from vendors.

For those who would do this, I caution to check first with employees or managers of your local stores. Some are rather passive, while others won't allow this.

[Rirath]

Certainly not something I would admit so publicly. O_o;

[Dave Beauvais]

My e740 is the result of CompUSA's extended warranty. I exchanged my Casio E-200 for the e740 in early August, but my E-200 was actually defective. In fact, that was my fourth E-200 in six months, and I'd had enough of it. I told the Customer Service guy what was wrong with it and he told me to go to the PDA counter to get whatever one I wanted to exchange it for. He did the swap with no futher questions. Much easier than I'd ever thought it would be.

But would I intentionally break a PDA for the sole purpose of getting a newer or better one under the terms of an extended warranty? Hell no. To me, that's fraud, if not outright theft. It's a moral issue, when it comes down to it, and I think that method of "upgrading" is immoral. In my mind it's the same as burning down your house to get a nice insurance check. But that's just me.

--Dave

[Janak Parekh]

But would I intentionally break a PDA for the sole purpose of getting a newer or better one under the terms of an extended warranty? Hell no. To me, that's fraud, if not outright theft. It's a moral issue, when it comes down to it, and I think that method of "upgrading" is immoral. In my mind it's the same as burning down your house to get a nice insurance check. But that's just me.
No, it's not just you; it's the majority of the poll voters, so far. It goes beyond moral: "warranty" implies service on a unit that's been defective, not deliberately broken.

I've been tempted to break a device as to have an excuse to my family as to buying a new one, but I'd never try to take advantage of an extended warranty this way. Never mind CompUSA is illegal, blah blah blah; it increases the cost for the rest of us, and is conceptually akin to insurance fraud. I can't believe some CompUSA employees would allow it.

The "technicality" route sounds much better to me, IMHO.

--bdj

[Gremmie]

[quote=Decius]I can't believe some CompUSA employees would allow it.
--bdj

They are the one's who do it the most.

[ThomasC22]

I have to go with BDJ, this has always kind of bothered me.

It seems like we're punishing companies for giving a great warranty so the question becomes, why would these companies continue to do this?

Then I, who wouldn't do this, can't get any warranty at all on my next PDA because the company is afraid of fraud. Not cool!

[Seraph1024]

It all depends on my mood that day. I have broken (disconnected a speaker connection) on my clie to get refund once since clie was not connecting to my phone's IR and people at BestBuy were being a pain about it.

As for PDAs, I recently(yesterday) dropped my 550g and cracked my screen (right after I opened it up to tape up the side so that dust can not get in). Great timing I'd say. All went to waste! CompUSA took care of it and gave me a new one. I got a new warranty on it too. Just in case.

The oddest break ever: HandSpring Visor in my pants pocket -- I got out of my car and the screen was cracked in half. I did nothing. It was just sitting there looking pretty.

L

[Vasant56]

well, the employee himself told me in 3 years if I got tired of it to "accidently" break it. But I probably won't break it on purpose to rip them off, but I am NOT being as careful as I could be with it.

The closest thing to a scam I am pulling off is tricking WalMart to exchange one of my DVD's for another. My brother bought it for me at university and that chain (where he bought it from) isn't here so I am going to say I don't know where he got it from and he doesn't have the receipt. I'm not really scamming them though since it will be the Full Screen version of Star Wars episode II for the Wide Screen one, so it isn't really any loss

[GoldKey]

I am preparing the death of my e740 for a new iPAQ, making it roughly my 11th PDA in the last 2 years.

Rant Mode ON

Isn't that fraud? Do you walk into the store and tell them that you broke it intentionally? If so, I doubt they would do it. Or do you just walk in and say that it does not work and you would like to exchange it and hope they don't ask what happened? In that case a lie of omission is still lying and I believe would be considered fraud.

I doubt any warantee actually says that an item will be replaced if you break it intentionally. I think the closest is that they will cover it if you accidentally break it.

Who do you think has to pay for this behavior? All the rest of us. Thanks. :evil:

Considering the average price of a PDA, and that you have admittedly done this 11 times, you probably qualify for a FELONY.

Rant Mode OFF

[ThomasC22]

Considering the average price of a PDA, and that you have admittedly done this 11 times, you probably qualify for a FELONY.


Actually, now I'm kind of curious as to whether this is insurance fraud or not. If it is, it's a felony punishable by up to 5 years in jail.

Here's the thing, on one hand, you are not actually dealing with an insurance company directly so that would seem to indicate that it isn't.

But on the other hand, if I understand it correctly, companies like CompUSA do deal with insurance companies in regards to their warranties (much like game shows do) which would mean you would be indirectly defrauding an insurance company. Conspiracy to defraud is also a crime, so it's possible...

[Gremmie]

Isn't that fraud? Do you walk into the store and tell them that you broke it intentionally? If so, I doubt they would do it. Or do you just walk in and say that it does not work and you would like to exchange it and hope they don't ask what happened? In that case a lie of omission is still lying and I believe would be considered fraud.


Notice when I said in the aforementioned post about those who would do it. I always check with the managers of the store before I take something back, the store's themselves don't take an accounted for loss since they treat it as a typical return. To answer ThomasC22, they don't go through the insurance companies like they do with computer warrienties and everything is regarded for in house. I don't usually break it, many times they resell them to the employee's or stack it on the refurbished shelves.

[GoldKey]

Notice when I said in the aforementioned post about those who would do it. I always check with the managers of the store before I take something back, the store's themselves don't take an accounted for loss since they treat it as a typical return.

So you walk into or call the store, speak to the manager and say, "I am going to intentionally break my PDA that I have a service contract on if I can go ahead and bring it to your store for an exchange because in reality I just don't like it anymore." :?: I wouldn't be suprised if they actually say yes, because the payout for the new unit comes from warrantee service and the sale of the new unit it credited to the store. That just makes them additionally guilty in this little fraud of yours as well. You are absolutely right, the store does not take it as a loss. They just return it to the manufacturer. The manufacturer takes the loss, then in turn increase the price of subsequent units to make up for it and it costs the rest of us who are legitimately buying upgrades. :evil:

[Gremmie]

No breaking, like I said they often resell them to employees

[GoldKey]

No breaking, like I said they often resell them to employees
So, have any of you ever broke your PDA that was under warrenty in able to get a new and improved one?? I am preparing the death of my e740 for a new iPAQ, making it roughly my 11th PDA in the last 2 years. A lot of people argue over the terms of warrenties, here I use my local CompUSA for upgrading.

For CompUSA, the warrenty book doesn't disallow intentional breaks and is rather vague describing any limitations.

Yes Breaking...Bad Stuwie :roll:

You made it pretty clear that you have in the past and intend in the future to intentionally break a PDA in order to get a better one without paying. And you can see my previous post regarding resales to employees.

[Seraph1024]

I am not sure how it is in the rest of the states but in IL, you can walk into any COMPUSA store and say I want a new PDA. If you have the extra coverage plan, they are required to give you a NEW PDA. At the same time, you can renew the plan (they encourage you) at the cost of 60 for a year and 99 for two years in case you want to upgrade it again. Although it is called PDA replacement plan, the store managers usually call it upgrade plan. I have in the last couple of days broken a screen on my 550g (yeah the $599 unit). They took it back and I got a new unit in minutes with a new protection plan. No questions ask. I told them I dropped the unit and the manager said "opps, glad you got the protection plan ah? Go to the PDA section, get a new unit and come back to me."
In and out within 10 minutes.

Put it this way, this is like an insurance. There are many people who will never break or upgrade their PDAs. They are just daily users. Powerusers will break them and will need to upgrade them. Same as insurance on cars. There are some that never get into an accident. There are some that total three four cars in a year. But all pay for insurance...

[GoldKey]

I am not sure how it is in the rest of the states but in IL, you can walk into any COMPUSA store and say I want a new PDA. If you have the extra coverage plan, they are required to give you a NEW PDA.

Seraph1024

I'd love to see a copy of anything that says that.

According to the service plan section of CompUSA's website located at http://www.compusa.com/tech_services/warranties.asp it specifically says that Labor & Replacement Parts are only covered for repair/replacement due to manufacturer defect.

Also, I went through the document for their technology assurance plan. Located at http://www.compusa.com/media/tap_terms.pdf

It specifically says "If your covered product requires service because of a product failure during normal usage, “OBLIGOR” has the option to repair or replace the defective product with a like product of equal or similar features, specifications, and functionality."

Additionally, it says "The Plan applies only to the operation or use of the covered product under conditions for which it was designed, and does not cover loss or damage resulting from external causes such as dropping the product, collision with an object, burglary, theft, vandalism, environmental conditions, fire, flooding, corrosion, sand, dirt, windstorm, hail, earthquake, or damage from exposure to weather conditions, misuse, abuse, neglect or accidental damage or damage resulting from improper use of any electrical power source."

I think normal usage, misuse, and abuse would cover the intentional breakage scenario. Also, I see nothing that says they have to replace it just because you walk in there and say you want a new one.

I would imagine the terms of other store warantees would be similar.

[Gremmie]

I see where you are talking about...but this is written in the PDA Replacement Plan, for whatever reason the PDA Replacement Plan has been left much more vague, probably because the section you were reading involved insurance underwritters, PDA's dont.

PDA Replacement Plan
A replacement carry-in only plan designed for Personal Digital Assistants (PDAs)that carry a
manufacturer's warranty of at least 90 days on Parts and Labor.
In the event your covered product fails to operate and cannot be repaired (including mechanical or
electrical defect in your product screen),the Replacement Plan will provide a one (1)time
replacement of your original product with a product of equal or similar features,specifications,and
functionality.Your product must be carried in to any CompUSA store location or any other
authorized service center as assigned by the Administrator to obtain replacement under this Plan.
You must provide the store location or service center with proof of purchase documentation at the
time of replacement request.On-site coverage will not be provided.If your product is still covered by
the manufacturer ’s warranty,you may be directed to call the manufacturer directly.To obtain a
refund on your accessory kit within the first 30 days,you may return your product to the store for a full
refund.Your product is not refundable after 30 days.For reimbursement of your Accessory Kit
Replacement Plan,refer to the section entitled “Cancellations &State Specific Requirements ”.

[GoldKey]

In the event your covered product fails to operate and cannot be repaired (including mechanical or electrical defect in your product screen),

Agreed this is a bit more vague than the language I quoted, but I think the key is "product fails to operate".

For example, myr car insurance would probably be liable and should pay if I have an accident because my brakes fail to operate. But if the brakes failed to operate because a) I did not properly maintain them b) the brake lines were cut by someone c) I was drunk and forgot to apply them or d) I chose not to apply them so I could have a wreck and sue, they would not pay even though the brakes technically did fail to operate. In some of these circumstances filing an insurance claim to attempte to be reimbursed would be against the law because fraud would be involved.

Needless to say, if you were prosecuted for fraud do you think the judge would buy the fact that the product failed to operate because you opened it up and cut some wires as a valid defense?

[Gremmie]

Needless to say, if you were prosecuted for fraud do you think the judge would buy the fact that the product failed to operate because you opened it up and cut some wires as a valid defense?

It would be hard to be prosecuted for fraud when those who make the decision to replace it allow me to do so w/o breaking the PDA.

[ThomasC22]

It would be hard to be prosecuted for fraud when those who make the decision to replace it allow me to do so w/o breaking the PDA.

Well, avoiding the whole "moral implications" issue, I will say that IF it in fact is fraud then it wouldn't matter what say, the clerk, did. It would simply be conspiracy to defraud with the clerk.

[GoldKey]

It would be hard to be prosecuted for fraud when those who make the decision to replace it allow me to do so w/o breaking the PDA.

I think we are getting away from the point that you said that you have in the past and intend in the future to intentionally break your PDA in order to be able to exchange it under an extended warantee.

I think I had shown that this is wrong for legal reasons, never mind ethical and moral reasons. Without knowing exactly what you are saying when you return the item to the store, it is hard to comment on the legal/ethical implications of what the employees are doing. Essentially in this case I imagine the employees don't care why you are returning it they just write it up as defective and give you a new one. That is probably the easiest thing for them to do. From their perspective, they figure you are probably going to complain if you don't get what you asked for. So again, they probably just take the lazy way out. Is this right? No of course not. If I were their superior, I would fire them. But again, you would be taking advantage of an employees laziness, to do something I suspect you know is not right. Just because they let you do it is not an excuse. I will give you though that a judge would probably not find you guilty if the store employee as a representitive of the company did it for you.

But, I will thank you again for the part you have done to keep prices just a little higher for the rest of us.

[Gremmie]

Managers have to approve all warrenty exchanges anyways, and of course they don't care, they get commissioned off of it, thats why the managers encourage it like Seraph1024 pointed out. As far as price hikes?

Well, most of them don't go back to the vendor since I don't break them and are sold as refurbs.

The legality? No, can't say you have. Managers approve this and no insurance company underwrites the PDA warrenty. It is the store's descretion wether or not to replace PDA's for upgrading. At the very least, they'll let you return the product and pay the difference for when you bought it and now. However, since they resell it at ~$250, they don't lose money.

Maybe if it wasn't for there comission off of warrenty sales the employees would have to be paid more to compensate, therefore they'd need higher margins to counter, thus raising prices.

[GoldKey]

Managers have to approve all warrenty exchanges anyways, and of course they don't care, they get commissioned off of it, thats why the managers encourage it like Seraph1024 pointed out.

That is just their motive for participation in the fraud. I would bet the company could prosecute you both.

As far as price hikes?
Well, most of them don't go back to the vendor since I don't break them and are sold as refurbs. .

MOST, what about the ones that do? You started this entire thread on the premise that you intentionally break your PDA's in order to return them as a method of free upgrade. So lets see, they sell your unit as a refurb for $250 and give you a $500 unit for nothing. Seems like -$250 to me. Lets say I buy lots of refurbs because they are usually a good value. If the refurb wasn't there though, I would buy a full priced unit. So, it also costs the store the difference between the full price of the unit I would have bought and the refurb I bought instead. Another couple hundred.

The legality? No, can't say you have.

If you don't go for the legal arguement, I don't suppose you go for the moral arguement either. :(

Maybe if it wasn't for there comission off of warrenty sales the employees would have to be paid more to compensate, therefore they'd need higher margins to counter, thus raising prices.

What would life be like if there were no hypothetical questions? :wink:

[jizmo]

I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone would be like this. Just because you can do it by not getting caught, doesn't make it right. :evil:

/jizmo