Feds Label Wi-Fi a Terrorist Tool

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,56742,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/...2,56742,00.html</a><br /><br /></div>I admit it - I've been sloppy about securing my WiFi network. My WAP doesn't allow me to turn off SSID broadcasting, and the whole MAC address method of securing seems like a major hassle to me. Am I a criminal? Potentially, according to the newly-formed Department of Homeland Security (that name scares me a little).<br /><br />"Attention, Wi-Fi users: The Department of Homeland Security sees wireless networking technology as a terrorist threat. That was the message from experts who participated in working groups under federal cybersecurity czar Richard Clarke and shared what they learned at this week's 802.11 Planet conference. Wi-Fi manufacturers, as well as home and office users, face a clear choice, they said: Secure yourselves or be regulated.<br /><br />"Homeland Security is putting people in place who will be in a position to say, 'If you're going to get broken into ... we're going to start regulating,'" said Cable and Wireless security architect Shannon Myers in a panel dubbed "Homeland Security vs. Wi-Fi."

[pro_worm]

Heh... I like the last option there the most :wink:

[Ed Hansberry]

Well, I have WEP on. Never bothered to look for SSID broadcasting or MAC control.

[brianchris]

I have been meaning to enable WEP and have never got around to it. I have been using MAC address control for the longest time, but some new Fujitsu laptops (with integrated 802.11b) are not working with MAC address filtering, and I am totally stumped.....a MAC address should be a MAC address, but, alas, not so :( Not to take this thread OT, but if anyone has any suggestions.....

WEP will be happening within the next week or two.

-Brian

[willkess71]

But this may be going a bit far.Headline : Terrorist Warchalkers were sent to Guantanomo... more later. . I actually enjoy seeing what is out there in major cities but if I am going to be labeled a terrorist no Thanks... I will look into securing my own system but again this may be going a bit far... Jason how sure are we that they are going to these levels?

[Steven Cedrone]

I have WEP enabled, MAC access control, and SSID is not set to broadcast (and it has been changed from the default)...

I don't like my neighbors, can't you tell? :wink:

Steve

[mookie123]

What makes you think such scenario will not happen? It's enough to be undersuspicion and labeled enemy combatant. And no, you can't talk to any lawyer or have an open hearing. If your network is being used as tool to exchanged suspicious information. You are part of the terrorist network period.

[acronym]

seriously? I think you should be held accountable if someone 'wardrives' and uses your network connection to broadcast malicious data. Its not difficult to secure a network - even in a mixed mac/pc environment you can at least use hardware address filtering.

The companies who were caught transmitting customer data in clear text earlier this year should have paid a hefty fine.

[Anthony Caruana]

One of the really scary things here is the issue of regulation. Let's hope that the manufacturers are given sufficient opportunity to react to the potential issues this might raise.

Also, how can the hardware specs be regulated by the US government. If the devices are designed and manufactured outside the US will they be banning imports?


Hopefully, the Nth American governments aren't as clueless about technology as their Australian counterparts who, in their infinite wisdom, have passed leglislation to try to censor internet content (specifically porn), destroyed any hope of digital/HD TV being successful in this country and treated the Australian IT community as if they were a bunch of twits


I feel better now :wink:

[safelder]

I'll just stick this on my list of comforting thoughts. Right there with our secret appeals court upholding secret wiretaps. But only on Americans.

[Janak Parekh]

seriously? I think you should be held accountable if someone 'wardrives' and uses your network connection to broadcast malicious data. Its not difficult to secure a network - even in a mixed mac/pc environment you can at least use hardware address filtering.
On the other hand, it's not too difficult to walk into a place and plug yourself into an Ethernet port -- if nowhere else than a university. Do you want to regulate that?

--bdj

[st63z]

I thought Jason's Canadian? Or will HS also oversee (i.e. regulate) our clueless neighbors to the north? ;)

I admit I too find the "Homeland Security" moniker a little unsettling whenever I hear it, for some reason it evokes latent fears from all those fictional scenarios you read in novels... I think the term has a somewhat foreboding connotation...

[humphrey22]

Manufacturers should set them "secure" as the default and get cracking on finalizing the new secured WiFi standard. Most consumers are not system administrators nor should the clueless government officials (who probably can't secure their own personal WiFi/Wired networks at home) expect them to be.

[techie]

The New Zealand telecoms suppliers have solved the problem - we pay for traffic via broadband and its not cheap. Ick.

Its in my interest to protect my WLAN so I dont pay for anyone elses traffic. And as a side effect few people will share files either - one guy got a $7000 bill one month because his kids left a file sharing program on.

&lt;starts foaming at the mouth...>
Thats crippled the uptake of broadband internet services and made it expensive to run an internet based business. Our government is trying to foster a 'knowledge economy', but they are being hampered by a lack of infrastructure to support the initiatives - such as the cost of internet access (among other things).
&lt;takes a chill pill>
Its a bit of a hot topic for me.

Cheers.
Techie

[Seraph1024]

I say keep things free. But run a monitoring software (sniffer) on your network so that you know what's going on and keep a log of it, just in case uncle sam or any other person want it. I have nothing to hide and I belive in freedom.

I'd love to walk down michigan ave in chicago, walk next to a shop and be able to surf to the shop's website to see if there are any deals going on. I hope the future looks that way. Share the fortune and make humanity progress. yeah I know... kind of an idealistic point of view but...

[Dave Beauvais]

Manufacturers should set them "secure" as the default ...
I agree, but then they might actually have to pay people to provide useful support for their products since the average user would no longer be able to make the product work out of the box. This would also significantly increase the number of retail product returns that stores would have to deal with.

I agree that products should ship with more security features enabled by default, but those options are not without their drawbacks in terms of product support and setup.

--Dave

[seanturner]

It scares me though that they believe they have the authority to say secure or else. The government is made to serve us, not to restrict us and be parents. THat arrogance on their part scares me. Especially the we're here to stay attitude... I think that the entire administration needs to be abolished...

[pop63]

Just bought a wireless kit tonight and set it up.

A little confusing (hung the wireless off my wired router) because of initial IP conflict.

finally, with the help of phone support, resolved all the issues.(1.5 hours)

Put on the encrytion (WEP) and set up a key. (That took 2 minutes.)

Is this considered secure?

Thanks

[bdeli]

It scares me though that they believe they have the authority to say secure or else. The government is made to serve us, not to restrict us and be parents. THat arrogance on their part scares me. Especially the we're here to stay attitude... I think that the entire administration needs to be abolished...

I totally agree with you - BUT - why did the americans elect this administration and voted this administration back again in the senate...

I do not want to start any wars in this thread, but I think the US is going overboard with lots of things - and this wifi issue is a case in point!

[bdeli]

Just bought a wireless kit tonight and set it up.

A little confusing (hung the wireless off my wired router) because of initial IP conflict.

finally, with the help of phone support, resolved all the issues.(1.5 hours)

Put on the encrytion (WEP) and set up a key. (That took 2 minutes.)

Is this considered secure?

Thanks

WEP encryption is ok. But i would also disable SSID broadcast and have MAC filtering turned on.

[ctmagnus]

One of my APs is WEPed, SSID-enabled and MAC-filtered. The other one's wiiiide open. I meant it that way. :)

[Sven Johannsen]

I say keep things free. .....Share the fortune and make humanity progress. yeah I know... kind of an idealistic point of view but...

I think that the entire administration needs to be abolished...

Sounds communist to me...Senator Joseph McCarthy


I think it would likely kill the consumer market for WiFi if they shipped with security on in their present state. If the process of getting them set up was easier and more consistant, maybe the average user would consider it. If you don't understand this, you have probably never tried to get an AP with a pass-phrase talking to a PCCard NIC with only HEX Key entry.

Beyond that it should be the consumers decision on whether to secure their network, based on their intended and authorized use of the technology. They need to be informed though, on the potential ramifications of that decision. Mine has WEP enabled, as far as I know I can't turn SSID broadcast off on my Linksys (and I've read enough to indicate that is useless anyway). MAC addresses can be spoofed, WEP must be cracked. Neither is too tough given the desire and resources from what I hear. You do what you can do.

[MooseMaster]

This is RIDICULOUS! First they make me fence in my pool because some 2 year old could wander unseen and unhindered across my 10 acre property to fall into my pool and drowned, in which case I could be sued for only God knows what reason!

Now they're going to regulate my open WiFi hub that barely reaches 200 feet away from my house, not NEARLY far enough to go off my property, which I particularly WANT it to so I can walk anywhere around my neighbourhood and be online.

HOW do they expect to regulate this? I'm not going to let them on my property to check if my network hub is accessible. It's secure enough for my needs. The open computer consoles with T3 connections in my local library open to anyone are 100 times more a security threat than my house's wifi network. Any internet connection ANYWHERE in the WORLD "could bring down the network of this country very quickly."

My network is open, it's range does not exceed the boundaries of my property, and I'm not letting some Ireland Purification Association terrorist member to get on my property and start using my wireless network. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't target a person in rural area with a &lt;1Mbit cable connection in the first place!

Is this going to turn into another communist witch hunt such as during the Cold War? This is stupid, we're smarter than this. So we're all going to lock down our wireless networks because 3 terrorists hijacked a couple airplanes? Give me a break! This entire department SHOULD be trashed. There IS already a department of defense, it is the responsibility of the FBI and police to handle criminal matters such as terrorism, which is ALL it is, criminal activity.

[Tom Eichers]

Its wide open, of course the dang range is only within my house. the first step outside and bang no connection. Steel frame house, and if your a terrorist inside my house trying to use the WAP you got other things to worry about (very large gun selection) 8)

[Janak Parekh]

Regarding range: while it appears your APs won't be reachable outside, you'd be surprised -- with special antennas you can get 2-5 times as much range. A directional Yagi has been used by many of the recent surveys looking for open AP's in cities. It can sniff a signal very, very quickly.

I do agree though that people are overworried about this thing. If you're in the middle of nowhere, it's not like cows are going to sprout 802.11b-compliant antennas. :D

On the other hand, the number of people that just "plugged it in" is a little scary. I have a coworker who actually has no internet access at home -- he just slurps bandwidth from an open AP one floor above or below in his apartment building. He doesn't even know who. :)

--bdj

[Jonathan1]

FYI I hear that bush is going to be announcing a new flag next week to go along with the "NEW" America
http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=116625

All of the US should be seriously getting a nervous vibe off of the presidency and the people that he's put in place. I don't think there is any one person, Bush included, that can be blamed for what is going on but I do beleve Bush was the linchpin. At this point Bush and his SS can label anything terrorist and congress and the American public would eat it up in a flat second.
OS’s made outside the OS with encryption....terrorist!
Data communications with encryption that the government can’t break...terrorist!
Dissatisfaction of US government....Terrorist!

At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that I didn’t vote for that pompous windbag so when he gets voted out of office and refuses to leave “for the good of America” I can have some small bit of satisfaction in knowing I didn’t put him there in the first place. I hope I'm wrong about that but *shrugs* We will see.

[MooseMaster]

Oh don't start some anti-Bush thing. I'm not the biggest Bush fan, but do you think Al Gore, Jr. would be doing a better job right now? NO. In fact I think Bush is doing just about as good a job as a president can in this instance. Not to downplay the situation, because it's really terrible. But Gore? We would have been in a war for 2 years now if Gore were the president!

There's no point in talking about would haves or could bes, I'm sorry.

This is just ridiculous, though. I love America, but I think I'm going to move to the Mediterranean for my retirement.

[Steven Cedrone]

I know it's going to be difficult to keep politics out of this discussion, but...

Let's try to remember that this is one reporter from "Wired News" stirring all of this up. :roll:

Steve

And please: Do not allow yourselves to be "baited" by Jonathan1... :?

[krisbrown]

We can't go on living like this people, either we have a world society where we trust the vast majority of people not to f@k things up, or we make one, something very big and very bad is eventually going to happen.
Security is next to pointless when your enemy can attack anything anytime, these people are just covering their @sses, so they don't get sued after the event.

[Jonathan1]

And please: Do not allow yourselves to be "baited" by Jonathan1... :?

What's to be baited? Am I not allowed to speak my mind? This is how I feel. I’m sorry if what I say ticks people off but do you think I’m the only one in the US thinking this? :( And I hate to break the news but if it has anything to do with the gov it is politically related.

[Fishie]

Sorrry for the political bit but I largely agree with Jonathan.
Couple that with the fact that Bush nationwide had far less votes then Gore(nice democracy there boys, kinda throws away the one man one vote principle straight out of the window, democrat in Texas SCREWED during presidential elections, Republican in California the same, why even vote in those states when you know that nationwide youre vote doesnt have a chance whatsoever to count towards who actually gets elected?)
How can you speak of democracy when the guy who won nationwide with 2 million votes is the one who lost?
Bush is responsible for the rising anti US sentiment in western Europe as wel as other places in this world wich are considered US alies, he is doing a horrible job for the image of america worldwide and is apointing convicted or self confessed criminals in powerfull positions, people that are hated inside and outside of the US(Henry Kissinger admited that even under US rule of law if he were to be brought before a warcrimes tribunal he would probably be found guilty, yet this self confessed criminal is heading the IMPARTIAL 9/11 probes).

Sigh, ill end it here.
I love the US, I visit it several times each year and have lots of friends living there, it gets tiring defending the US against the hordes of anti US people over here in western Europe, especially when the president of the US is constantly angering the international community.
I hope things improve soon and that there comes a time off mutual respect and better understandment, sadly at the moment it seems farther of then it has ever been.

[Pony99CA]

To get back on topic (my off-topic posts will come later :-))...

My WiFi network is fairly secure. I've changed the administrator password, changed the SSID and use WEP encryption. I don't believe I can turn off SSID broadcasting on my SMC router, and my attempt at MAC control failed (but it was a quick attempt).

Also, all of my ports are locked, except maybe the one I use for XoloX file sharing.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

One of the really scary things here is the issue of regulation. Let's hope that the manufacturers are given sufficient opportunity to react to the potential issues this might raise.

Also, how can the hardware specs be regulated by the US government. If the devices are designed and manufactured outside the US will they be banning imports?

I guess you haven't heard of the VChip in all new TVs. What about computer management systems in cars?

Also, there's currently a bill in Congress that would require all (I think) consumer electronics to have digital copy protection in them.

There's certainly plenty of precedent for regulating hardware specs. And, yes, if stuff manufactured outside of the U.S. doesn't comply with U.S. law, it can't be sold here. I don't think the U.S. is unique in that.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Its wide open, of course the dang range is only within my house. the first step outside and bang no connection. Steel frame house, and if your a terrorist inside my house trying to use the WAP you got other things to worry about (very large gun selection) 8)
Actually, I suspect if terrorists are trying to use anything inside your house, you'll already be dead....

And, as others have said, with a better antenna, people can pick up WiFi signals over much longer ranges.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Sorrry for the political bit but I largely agree with Jonathan.
Couple that with the fact that Bush nationwide had far less votes then Gore(nice democracy there boys, kinda throws away the one man one vote principle straight out of the window, democrat in Texas SCREWED during presidential elections, Republican in California the same, why even vote in those states when you know that nationwide youre vote doesnt have a chance whatsoever to count towards who actually gets elected?)
How can you speak of democracy when the guy who won nationwide with 2 million votes is the one who lost?

What many people, including you apparently, don't realize is that the U.S. is not a democracy -- the people don't vote directly on most things. In a country of any size, a true democracy would be unwieldy unless voting could be done from home. And could you imagine the voter apathy if people had to vote on every bill? People, including me, already complain that we have too many ballot initiatives in California.

The U.S. is a republic, meaning we have a representative government. We elect people to vote on almost everything else. That extends to our system of electing a president, which uses the electoral college. It was specifically designed to avoid giving the most populous states too much of an advantage -- smaller states get a bit more voice, proportionately, than populous states. Our Congress is bicameral for the same reason.

It's worked well for the most part for over 200 years, so get used to it. :-)

Steve

[Ed Hansberry]

It's worked well for the most part for over 200 years, so get used to it. :-)
SO well in fact that I'd bet no one can name any other major countries that have not had major changes in their form of government for that same 226 year period. Someone surprise me. :)

[Fishie]

It's worked well for the most part for over 200 years, so get used to it. :-)
SO well in fact that I'd bet no one can name any other major countries that have not had major changes in their form of government for that same 226 year period. Someone surprise me. :)

Switzerland, case closed I win.

[Fishie]

and Switzerland didnt have slavery, gave woman voting rights far sooner, didnt have legalised rascism till just a few decades ago like the US etcetera etcetera.

Oh BTW if annyone here lacks ego, ive got lots to spare :twisted:

[dlauri]

and Switzerland ... gave woman voting rights far sooner,

Hmm, I found at least one source (http://www.rippstein.com/swissquest/life_about.asp) that says Swiss women weren't allowed to vote until 1971.

[Fishie]

Weird, my bad.

[Ed Hansberry]

Switzerland, case closed I win.
The Swiss confederation was formed in 1271, but their government doesn't resemeble that at all. Their first unitary government wasn't formed until 1798 and was modified several times in the coming years. Their constitution wasn't put into place until May 29, 1874, which, by the way, put inplace an executive branch with a President, a legislative and judicial branch. Wonder where they got that idea? ;) Sorry. Try again.

[JvanEkris]

Didn't bring them much though:


In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock. (Orson Welles)

:)

Jaap

[Fishie]

Switzerland, case closed I win.
The Swiss confederation was formed in 1271, but their government doesn't resemeble that at all. Their first unitary government wasn't formed until 1798 and was modified several times in the coming years. Their constitution wasn't put into place until May 29, 1874, which, by the way, put inplace an executive branch with a President, a legislative and judicial branch. Wonder where they got that idea? ;) Sorry. Try again.

Screw that, the US changed plenty of times as well.

Go watch Bowling for Columbine.

[Steven Cedrone]

O.K., lets get back on topic. If you want to continue your debate, please start an "Off-Topic" thread...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[Fishie]

O wholeheartidly agree

[seanturner]

Regarding range: while it appears your APs won't be reachable outside, you'd be surprised -- with special antennas you can get 2-5 times as much range. A directional Yagi has been used by many of the recent surveys looking for open AP's in cities. It can sniff a signal very, very quickly.


Yeah, but you need a directional antenna on both the client and AP. I made a couple out of pringles cans with my linksys basestation and orinoco so that I can sit at a bench outside and have inet acess from my pocket pc.

[seanturner]

Go watch Bowling for Columbine.

That movie was funded by a bunch of politically correct liberal idiots...

[seanturner]

And regarding the election bush/gore thing, read slander by anne coulter. Execellent book...

[Willa]

And regarding the election bush/gore thing, read slander by anne coulter. Execellent book...

For anyone who doesn't know, this is the same enlightened woman whose response to the attacks of September 11, 2001, was: ""We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." :roll:

[Fishie]

People please, lets get back on topic.
Think of the children, do it for the children.
:twisted:

[Janak Parekh]

Yeah, but you need a directional antenna on both the client and AP. I made a couple out of pringles cans with my linksys basestation and orinoco so that I can sit at a bench outside and have inet acess from my pocket pc.
Not necessarily. A high-quality directional Yagi antenna on one end should give you better range, no matter what. I haven't done it, but I've read about people that did. Also, Pringles cans might be a bit more finicky, optimizationwise. :)

--bdj

[seanturner]

People please, lets get back on topic.
Think of the children, do it for the children.
:twisted:

In that case, my wlan is wide open and my neighbors who all have dialup know they are free to use some bandwidth whenever they fee like it. We are also talking about using those new dlink routers to do a big wlan for our neighborhood and buying a collective T1 because we can't get anything better than IDSL out here. My working with fellow citizens to get more bandwidth should not be any business of the government.

[seanturner]

Yeah, but you need a directional antenna on both the client and AP. I made a couple out of pringles cans with my linksys basestation and orinoco so that I can sit at a bench outside and have inet acess from my pocket pc.
Not necessarily. A high-quality directional Yagi antenna on one end should give you better range, no matter what. I haven't done it, but I've read about people that did. Also, Pringles cans might be a bit more finicky, optimizationwise. :)

--bdj

lol, yeah with the pringles can at least, having just one doesn't get me much of an advantage. Two, however, will at least double my range.

[Pony99CA]

Regarding range: while it appears your APs won't be reachable outside, you'd be surprised -- with special antennas you can get 2-5 times as much range. A directional Yagi has been used by many of the recent surveys looking for open AP's in cities. It can sniff a signal very, very quickly.


Yeah, but you need a directional antenna on both the client and AP. I made a couple out of pringles cans with my linksys basestation and orinoco so that I can sit at a bench outside and have inet acess from my pocket pc.
If having only one antenna didn't work, then War Driving (and certainly War Flying) would be impossible. They are possible, hence one antenna works (unless you believe the War people are only picking up other directional systems and some of those antennae are pointed into the sky :-)).

Steve

[seanturner]

Yes, it helps to pick up a network, but, at the same time, it is not practicle in that you don't realistically have hte ability to transfer data very well if you only have one antenna in that there will be a lot of signal loss if the transmit antenna on the AP doesn't have that advantage of a higher dB. Will it increase your distance by a few feet, definately. Will it do miracles? no. :(