The battle lines are drawn (as Off-Topic as it can get)...

[Steven Cedrone]

So, since it is late at night and on a weekend...

I decided to hit you guys/gals with my poll. Last week, I posted on Monday what a crappy day it was, here's why:

I think I've told you my dog was recently diagnosed with Epilepsy...

After 2 months of life "seizure free", Deja (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4193&highlight=dog) relapsed last Sunday. I went down that morning and I knew she must have had a seizure during the night. I attributed it to a possible missed dose of her medication (she may have vomited shortly after I had given her a pill the night before). I quickly gave her another pill, but the seizures kept coming (at least 9, not counting the ones not seen). I was going to the vet the following Monday A.M. for a refill of her medication and I decided that I would have to talk with him about changing her meds if she didn't improve...

On Monday morning my wife woke me up and told me Deja had passed away during the night...

As far my girls know (5 and 2.5 years old), Deja had to go to the hospital...

So here is the battle:

My wife's family has convinced her that the girls should know about it now. That they can grieve and get on with life...

I think the girls should be left thinking Deja is in the hospital and then break it to them after the holidays (why ruin Christmas for them)...

The other choice is to somehow avoid telling them altogether. After all, they will find out that life sucks eventually, why make them find out about it now...

So friends, what do you think???

Steve

[sprytron]

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.

Even when it hurts. :cry:

[pop63]

Yup, this is OT. Just about as off topic as I can imagine.

Which just goes to prove....
there is more to life than pocketpc's

Tell them.

Kids seek meaning and control of their world. If you don't share what happens, their fantasies will probably create a much more troubling answer to what happened to their friend.

Back on topic, I checked the site numerous times to see what Jason has learned about his new Axim. Just missed the UPS guy on Friday. Mine will be here on Monday.

Good luck

[dangerwit]

When I was a freshman in college, visiting home one weekend, I overheard my dad downstairs telling a guest they were going to put my dog to sleep during the week. I grew up with the dog for 15 of my 18 years at that time.

I can't explain how angry I was then; if they had done that and I found out, they never would've been forgiven. They took a chance, and failed. They said they were going to tell me while I was away. I never would have had the chance to say goodbye to my friend. I can honestly say 11 years later, I KNOW I'd still be angry if they went through with it.

Their thoughts were noble, and had their best intentions... but if your kids ever found out, the effects could be irreversible.

It's hard watching your kids hurt, but its worse when you deliver the hurt yourself. What's worse is leaving a hurt that doesn't heal with time.

Use Christmas to your advantage: its family time, be together and enjoy each other. In the long run, your kids won't thank you probably -- but they won't hate you either.

It's hard to lose a friend, you have my deepest condolences.

*Phil

[Xaximus]

Steve,

My sincere condolences to you and your family. A few thoughts:

- up and down, life is life, and reality always has a way of catching up to you (in my experience, the longer it takes to embrace reality, the worse off you are)... my advice is to tell your daughters now

- from what I've heard, your 2½ year-old daughter may have a very difficult time understanding the concept of death... for all I know, your 5 year-old daughter might also... still, I think they should know the truth about where Deja is and what has happened to her

- this won't be the last time they grieve... if they're not exposed to grieving and the cycle of life and death now, they will be soon enough; I think them going through this experience now might help them down the road, particularly when someone human they love dies

- Christmas is still about 3 weeks away, so while it may be a difficult time, I would tell them now rather than wait almost a month to let them know

- if you get another family pet, I'd wait a good month or several... that may be worthless advice, but it seems to me like a reasonable idea

I can't say I look forward to going through this sort of heart-breaking experience with my own children some day. I hope this scatter-brained advice is at least marginally helpful.

Best of luck,

Matt

[bigkingfun]

I also have a 2 1/2 year old daughter and one of her Grandma's dogs had to be put down about a month ago. We debated about what to tell her, but decided in the end that it was best to tell her what happened. I don't think she understands death, exactly, but she understands that Corky got sick and is gone. She was upset, but it didn't take her long to get over being upset and just have good memories of Corky.

Like an earlier post said, I think you can use Christmas to your advantage. It will be a time when your family is together and can help each other to grieve. It will also be a time, however, when you can remember all the good times you had with your pet.

One other thing that I would suggest is to be careful how you relate your dog going to the hospital to its passing away. If you associate going to the hospital or the doctor too closely to death for your kids, they will be afraid to ever go themselves.

I hope this helps in some small way. Good luck.

[Barry_Rau]

I Know from my own experiances that losing a pet/friend can really hurt. And everyone deals with that hurt in their own way (Both Child & Adult alike) I think the only way to move on is to have closure. Only you know the dynamics of your family so you will have to determine the way to procede. I can say that there can be other pets you may share your life with (every pet/person relationship is unique) Always remember the love your pet gives is unconditional.

Peace..
BR

[Rirath]

I'd say unless they're terribly worried about the dog, and asking where he/she is, let them wait. It's a tough call, but unless they're really wanting to know, why force it on them. Now, if they're asking and wanting to know, that's probably another story. If you're going to tell them though, get it over with shortly and don't wait around. Chirstmas is still just under 3 weeks away. We're all sorry for your loss.

[Oreocat]

I don't have children, but I feel as most of the other posts do, you should tell them.

Also, and this is just from personal experience, I had read an article several years ago about pets dying, and one of the recommendations was to get another pet as soon as possible. I probably won't explain the reasoning for this as well as they did, though.

It said it wasn't to forget the original pet, thats not possible anyway, but they said having a new kitten or puppy around is a great distraction, particularly for children. Adults understand whats happened more, but still, no one can watch kittens or puppies and not grin at little through the grief. Granted, new pets will remind you of your loss, but the new pet will also remind you of the good times, and why you loved having your orignal pet as well.

Sorry not explaining this well. The point is, my friends cat died and she tried this, and said it did help her. And when my 4 month old kitten died a few years later, we tried it, and although there were tears, watching the new kittens play, it simply wasn't possible to not have some giggles and happy reminders of why we loved kittens.

Anyway, I hope it all works out ok.

[enemy2k2]

I voted for telling after xmas, but I change my mind now. It won't ruin xmas for them, hopefully when that day comes around it will still be almost as good as any other christmas. Telling them after though probably wouldn't be a good idea because that's when school starts and it's so much after the fact. You don't want to lose their trust I guess. It should probably be done ASAP. My condolences for your dog.

[alan williams]

Tell them.
Tell them.
Tell them.

I've had just this sort of think kept from me. (I was away at camp, nasty business) You cannot imagine the sense of loss yet betrayal that I had and carried with me for so long after. It took me a long time to forgive my mother for that one.

Tell them, the pain will pass in time and you won't compound that grief by the knowledge that it was kept from them.

[Ed Hansberry]

Tell'em. Your 2.5 yr old won't grasp it long term. She'll cry because the 5 year old and you will cry. The 5 year old will be able to take it. This is another benefit to having pets - their death prepares kids for when people die.

and of course, Christmas morning they get a new puppy!!!!

Definitely don't delay. It will confuse your 5 year old about hospitals. Just think if you or your wife have to go. She will associate going to a hospital with never ever returning.

[Kati Compton]

Sorry to hear about Deja.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids. All comments are made based on remembering being a kid. My memory isn't that great, so take it with a grain of salt.

I think you should tell them as soon as possible. Basically, I think there's enough time between now and Christmas that they'll get past the initial mourning, and be able to enjoy Christmas. Kids are stronger than you think. PLUS - depending on how they're handling it, you can surprise them with a new puppy for Christmas. Don't get a new dog yet, though, if you think they'll see it too much as "replacement" instead of "moving on". Kids are unpredictable...

What you DON'T want is for them to not ask too much and then ask a lot on Christmas and have either your wife break down and tell them, or for you to do it. That *would* ruin Christmas.

And telling them after is both a distraction for school, as well as an unpleasant way to forget about the fun of Christmas.

So I'd suggest using Christmas as a nice way to make them "forget"/move on instead of using the bad news as a way (obviously you wouldn't be doing it with this intent, but...) to forget a nice Christmas.

As for not telling them at all - when they're older, they'll be really mad at you. I was miffed enough to find out from my father that he substituted a pet snake twice (the same snake kept dying! ;)). And that was just a teeny green snake I named Medusa.

They'll definitely realize something is up someday if you don't tell them. "Wait a minute. We *had* a dog..."

Tough situtation, though. :(

[JvanEkris]

First, my condolances.

Personally, i would tell them directly. I don't have kids myself (yet), but i think you and family should share your grief in such a time. You and your wife probably have loved this dog as well, and hiding your grief from your children won't help you and your wife a bit. By sharing this painfull feeling, at least you can honestly talk about your feelings and learn your kids to deal with it. They will follow you and your wife by example (as with everything), and this is (however painfull) perhaps a necessary moment to show them how you deal with this aspect of life.

Jaap

[Pony99CA]

Tell them now. It won't "ruin Christmas" -- by the time Christmas gets here, they may be over it (young kids can be resilient), and opening presents will probably make them happy (whether they get a puppy or not).

Telling them after Christmas will just ruin the post-holiday period, and, if they ever find out that you didn't tell them, give them a reason to not trust dad.

Trying to avoid it forever is something out of a sitcom. "Is our dog still at the farm, Dad?"

I have an 11-year-old daughter, and our Golden Retriever died in 2001 while I was away on business. I was sad that I didn't get to say goodbye to our dog, but my daughter seemed to be OK with it (at least, by the time I got home after another week). She did want another puppy, though, but we managed to put that off for a month. We're a two-dog family again (for better or worse :-)).

Maybe you could have a doggie funeral for your kids, which would let them grieve, then they'll start getting better.

Steve

[Jeff Rutledge]

I agree with the majority. Tell them. They might surprise you. It will be hard I'm sure, but I think it's important that kids learn these things (my opinion only of course).

I also agree with the statement made before to hold off a little while before getting another pet (if you're planning to). I think it would help them if they had some time where Deja's memory was #1 before a new member of the family came along. Too soon and they might feel guilty for loving the new pet so soon.

As I said, just my thoughts. Either way, it's not an easy thing and I wish you well.

[ThomasC22]

Yup, tell them. If it weren't for the fact that they already knew the dog was sick, I'd say wait. But being that they know, it only adds anxiety to their Christmas.

By telling them now you give them a resolution (not a pleasant one but still) and they can move on. Wait, and they spend xmas worrying which isn't what you want them to do.