Is the Dell Axim too BIG??

[Cortex]

I've been looking at the pics of the Axim compared to the new iPaqs and it boggles my mind that people are obsessing about the size.

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/dell/aximx5/X5-3.htm

My biggest gripe is COMPARE THE DELL TO DUAL SLOT DEVICES!!!!

Strap that hunker sleave on that iPaq!!! and we'll see who's big!

8O

[GoldKey]

The option I really wanted is not there. It looks just a little bigger than I would like. But until I have it in my hand, I really can't say. But given its price AND the fact that it is dual slot, I am fine with it.

[enemy2k2]

The price and CF slot more than make up for it's size disadvantage for me;) Of course I'll have to wait until I have one in my hands and am able to slip (hopefully not jam) it into my pocket :D

[jngold_me]

Though not much smaller and lighter, the Toshiba e740 looks a heck of alot slimmer than the Axim. Too bad the 740 has been plagued with problems.

[jeasher]

I saw the video of the Axim and my first thought was it's a brick. Thing is though, I'm attracted to the smaller form factor of the V35/H1910 so the Dell can't win. But it's not even a valid question because comparing the Dell to the Viewsonic is like apples to oranges. Only price is the same.

I for one am willing to sacrifice memory, function, and speed for something I can stick in my suit pocket comfortably. But for the power user, the Dell should be a no-brainer.

[Kati Compton]

Though not much smaller and lighter, the Toshiba e740 looks a heck of alot slimmer than the Axim. Too bad the 740 has been plagued with problems.

Yeah - the e740 was my second choice, but I got the Dell because:

1. better screen
2. better support (I've seen lots of complaints about Audiovox/Toshiba)
3. bigger ROM "just in case" for PocketPC 2003/4
4. better battery.

Things I'm not getting that would have been nice, though with the e740:

1. more appealing visually
2. I don't know that I'll need it, but I like the idea of the VGA-out and USB keyboard port on the expansion pack
3. the bugs are at least documented

I have to say that the 4" screen of the e550g almost sucked me in (I know it doesn't have a better resolution, but I think just seeing things *bigger* might be nice), also a lot of *its* visual appeal is that it looks like less of the case is "wasted" (ie, not much case surrounding the screen), but there've been lots of dust & battery problems, and complaints about support.

So I ordered the Dell.

[jizmo]

I was looking eagerly forward to Axim X5 and was a bit disappointed when I saw the first real pictures of it. I knew it'd be a little bigger than the competitors, but .. err .. it's just huge.

I had difficulties with the size of my former iPAQ 37xx, I just always felt a little clumsy with it. Actually I wasn't even going to purchase another PocketPC after selling that device, but after seeing the Viewsonic, I fell in love with it. And the new iPAQ 1910 is even smaller. Both look so sexy, efficient, slim.. Just lovely.

Dell is a very good option, and I can't blame one buying it, expecially at that price. But to me, it's just a step back in PPC devices. After all, we've already won Palm in almost every aspect, expect size. I'd find it hard to justify the size over it's features compared to Viewsonic if I was buying it.

I believe that the Viewsonic / iPAQ 1910 have more than enough speed and other options to boost with, and with their new smaller physical size and price tag, they really beat the pants down from Palm devices. I myself wouldn't be very proud to show the Dell to any Palm fanatic, althought I don't know anyone :D .

For me the looks and feel is very important part of the things I buy. I choose my clothes, tv-sets, furnitures so that I'm willing to spend a little extra if it just is visually more attractive. Naturally the capabilities of the devices are top priority also, but I'd choose Ferrari that goes 80mph over Morris Mini that goes 120mph any day.

When iPAQ 1910 is stacked of top of Dell, iPAQ looks like the protective screen lid of the latter. It's just that much thinner. Call me vain, but for me, that's the thing that really counts.

/jizmo

[Rirath]

It'd be nice if we could hold off on this type of poll until the device was actually released and people had them. For the people calling it a brick, I'm convinced you simply don't realize the scale of the video/picture you're looking at.

As I've seen posted before, this forum really seems to be populated by art students now and fewer techies. I don't think I've ever heard such an uproar about the looks of a device, which looks perfectly normal. I'm having my doubts this discussion will ever die for the lifespan of the Dell and on to the next unit.

If you're willing to give up memory, power, speed, and even money to get a smaller device, that's fine, feel free to do so. But that is no excuse to call a perfectly normal sized device a brick just because the V35 and such are exceptionally smaller than previous units.

[Cortex]

I only partially agree its premature to discuss the size of the Axim.

The photos they initially picked for their marketing campain were bad choices since I think it makes the Axim look bulkier than it is. Many of the photo's make it look as though it is two-toned when it is actually curved and the shadows are enhanced.

This initial impression, coupled with the release of the ultraslim 1910 and viewsonic -- which do not have dual slots -- influenced peoples subconscious behavior by reinforcing the desire to show the device is bulky. All of the photo comparisons of the device I have seen thus far, are biased to do so. There have been no comparisons to dual slot devices! The interesting question is why? Did the inital photos influence people behavior to such an extent?

In reality it will probably be the same size as a the Audiovox

Maestro/Toshiba e570:
Length: 4.92 in
Width: 3.05 in
Depth: 0.69 in
Weight: 6.3 oz

Casio e200:
Length: 5.13 in
Width: 3.19 in
Depth: 0.69 in
Weight: 6.7oz.

Siemens Loox:
Length: 5.2 in
Width: 3.2 in
Depth: 0.7 in
Weight 6.2 oz

Toshiba Genio e550:
Length: 4.92 in
Width: 3.03 in
Depth: 0.63 in
Weight: 6 oz

Dell Axim:
Length: 5.04 in
Width: 3.21 in
Depth: 0.71 in
Weight: 6.9 oz

Although it is the heaviest thus far, it is HALF the price!

Can anyone think of any other dual slot devices??

[Cortex]

I forgot the size of the iPaq with standard CF sleeve...

Lenght: 5.11in
Width: 3.40 in
Depth 1.05 in
Weight: 9.36 oz OR 0.585 lbs OMG!!!

TALK ABOUT A BRICK!!!!

[Rirath]

All of the photo comparisons of the device I have seen thus far, are biased to do so. There have been no comparisons to dual slot devices! The interesting question is why? Did the inital photos influence people behavior to such an extent?

My best guess is a lot of the people taking the photos want the smaller device at the price of specs. They want to feel better about their choice and show off how small it is by picturing it with the Dell because it's new as well. It's not so much for education of the masses I'd say than it is for their amusement.

I've got to give the V35 credit for being tiny, but that thankfully doesn't mean every device must be that size from now on. I like dual slots, I like compact flash, I like faster processor speeds. And I like a device I can hold without feeling like I'm going to snap it in half.

[enemy2k2]

You make an excellent point there. Not to mention I think the Dell will be one of the sturdiest most solid units out there. I would really love to see some good comparision pictures of it next to an Ipaq 38/900 series....

[jizmo]

I agree that Dell X5 *should* be compared to other dual-slot PPCs out there, and shown side-by-side with the older iPAQ line with similar features, so that people would see the price advantage it has over the similar featured devices.

But then again I do understand those who say it's a brick. Yes, it's not a brick for what it does, but next to V35 or 1910, it just is, and that's the way it is.

Some may say that my Communicator is a brick when compared to smaller mobile phones out there. This is true and I don't argue about this, because it'd be downright stupid to deny it. But then again I know how much more options Communicator gives me when compared to other phones.

v35 and 1910 represent this new line of PocketPC, that is like a Japanese line of sports cars and Dell is a traditional American automobile, it's a sturdy workhorse, that boasts with options, while the v35 and 1910 are more limited in feature-wise, but look better to those who prefer sporty kind of looks. Those who like Japanese cars say that American cars are heavy and too big, and American car lover thinks that Japanese cars are too small and fragile.

Which user group is "right" in this debate, I wonder? :wink:

/jizmo

[enemy2k2]

Give me both an American truck and a Japanese sport coupe, and I would be one happy dude :twisted:

[Rirath]

But then again I do understand those who say it's a brick. Yes, it's not a brick for what it does, but next to V35 or 1910, it just is, and that's the way it is.

See though, it's this way of thinking that really irks me. It's bigger, yes... but we're talking by 2.7 oz and 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.3. The Ipaq with sleeve is 0.31 x 0.4 x 0.65 and 5.16oz bigger/heaver than the V35. It's just unfair to call every device that isn't a V35 a brick. :? You've got to keep some perspective on things. If a super heavy device comes out next year, what will you call it? Brick is already the term for everything not V35 sized by your statement. You'll have to think up a new buzzword to wear out.

v35 and 1910 represent this new line of PocketPC, that is like a Japanese line of sports cars and Dell is a traditional American automobile

No one would deny there's a difference between those two groups. But to use your analogy, calling the dell a brick is like calling every automobile that isn't a japanese sport car an SUV.

[jizmo]

Whether you like to call it a brick or not, it's a fact that iPAQ's 1910 seemed to scare the Dell executives a little, because they announced right away that they'll also release a slimmer model in early 2003, even before X5 started shipping.

No one would deny there's a difference between those two groups. But to use your analogy, calling the dell a brick is like calling every automobile that isn't a japanese sport car an SUV.

Ok, I was generalizing. :)

I've got to give the V35 credit for being tiny, but that thankfully doesn't mean every device must be that size from now on. I like dual slots, I like compact flash, I like faster processor speeds. And I like a device I can hold without feeling like I'm going to snap it in half.

So all the devices that are slimmer than X5 are fragile? So, who's generalizing now? :wink:

If a super heavy device comes out next year, what will you call it?

Axim X7, maybe? :wink:

/jizmo

[Rirath]

So all the devices that are slimmer than X5 are fragile? So, who's generalizing now?

Actually, I was speaking specifically about the V35. I didn't say it was fragile, I said I would feel like I'm going to break it, because of the size.

iPAQ's 1910 seemed to scare the Dell executives a little, because they announced right away that they'll also release a slimmer model in early 2003, even before X5 started shipping.

I wouldn't say it scared them. The anoucement of the slimmer and higher spec Axims was a good move. It'll make at least some people hold off from buying the competition to see what it's all about. And it gets a lot of people off Dells back who's been complaining about the size and lack of wireless. I don't believe they'll hurt themselves much at all.

[PPCRules]

Yes, dual slots (something I list as essential at this point in time) adds to the size, but even more does the extra packaging that the removable battery requires, and then too it's a healthy capacity battery. This is something I don't care that much about (I'd rather save size/weight on here) but many people are pretty excited about it, and this needs to be considered then people are comparing units (ipaq plus CF slot and removable battery).

[jizmo]

Actually, I was speaking specifically about the V35. I didn't say it was fragile, I said I would feel like I'm going to break it, because of the size.

Ahhemm.. This comment is as witty as if I stated that I can't hold X5 in my hand, because I'm afraid it'd break my joints and give me a hernia.

So, v35 feels *too* puny for you. But, really, you do think too much of your strenghts if you get the feeling you could break it that easily, mr. Iron Paws :D

I wouldn't say it scared them .. it gets a lot of people off Dells back who's been complaining about the size and lack of wireless.

I suppose their *very* quick response to these complaints coudn't be counted as a little scared action? After all, it was quite soon after they saw 1910.

Anyway, scared or not, I agree that it was a smart move. I myself will not buy iPAQ 1910 for ~300$ until I see, what Dell has to offer in the same category for ~150$. Hopefully it'll be something good, X5 was already a very close shot. :wink:

/jizmo

[Jason Dunn]

As amusing as this "debate" is, I have to wonder if any of you have held the V35, Axim X5, or iPAQ 1910 in your hands?

If not, what the heck are you arguing about? :wink:

[jizmo]

As amusing as this "debate" is, I have to wonder if any of you have held the V35, Axim X5, or iPAQ 1910 in your hands?

If not, what the heck are you arguing about? :wink:

I agree that this conversation has turned to arguing just for the sake or arguing a long time ago. Nobody really knows anything about the actual devices.

But then again, that has never kept PocketPCThoughts members from debating like they actually know what they're talking about :wink:

/jizmo

[Mike Temporale]

Anyway, scared or not, I agree that it was a smart move. I myself will not buy iPAQ 1910 for ~300$ until I see, what Dell has to offer in the same category for ~150$. Hopefully it'll be something good, X5 was already a very close shot. :wink:

/jizmo

The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention when comparing the new apples to oranges is the production experience that Compaq/HP has over the new comers.

Remember all the problems with the early PPC's? Dust, Broken Stylus locks, Short life batteries, etc.... Compaq/HP has learned from these over the last x (insert current year minus the year that compaq introduced the Areo here) years. Dell and Viewsonic haven't experienced these things. HOPEFULLY they have learned from the mistakes of others.

But this is why I'm on the fence until more information and reviews from real world use come in. If I HAD to buy today, it would be and Compaq.

[jizmo]

Remember all the problems with the early PPC's? Dust, Broken Stylus locks, Short life batteries, etc.... Compaq/HP has learned from these over the last x (insert current year minus the year that compaq introduced the Areo here) years. Dell and Viewsonic haven't experienced these things. HOPEFULLY they have learned from the mistakes of others..

Good point. I'd like to think that iPAQ has led the way here and others have learnt from their shortcomings, but you can never know.

It's no secret, that Toshiba has had it's problems..

/jizmo

[Jason Dunn]

But then again, that has never kept PocketPCThoughts members from debating like they actually know what they're talking about :wink:

So true...so very, very true... :roll: :lol:

[Mike Temporale]

It's no secret, that Toshiba has had it's problems..

/jizmo

Not having one I haven't really followed the devices too closely, I have looked at them and thought about buying one... I was surprised the other day to read a post in which someone was complaining about the 'known' problems with Toshiba's.

I have since asked around, and found one of my clients bought a e310 and the power button doesn't work. She can't turn the thing off!! Luckly the store she bought it at is replacing it with a e330 for no extra charge.

Toshiba is a relative new comer, and they made some mistakes. So it stands to reason that Dell and Viewsonic might do the same.

[enemy2k2]

I think the term brick is unfair... quarter brick - maybe. I have one of these puppies on order, and can't wait to get my paws on the thing, I've seen the Ipaqs and they're not bad at all, so if the Dell isn't all that much more than one of those then I think it would be just right. The only reason I say quarter brick is when I see this picture....

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/1910/images/compDellvs1910stack.jpg

That darn thing on top of it is TINY! It's a wafer!

[SofaTater]

As amusing as this "debate" is, I have to wonder if any of you have held the V35, Axim X5, or iPAQ 1910 in your hands?


Actually, I have held the Axim X5 in my hand on two different visits to the local Dell kiosk. As for it being a "brick" -- well, I live in a neighborhood full of brick houses and every one of those bricks is bigger and heavier than the Dell. :lol:

However, I would say that it is noticeably heavier and bulkier than other units I've played around with. There is not a huge difference, but if being able to tuck your PDA in a pocket and carrying it around all day without it looking like you have something stuffed down the front of your pants is an important decision factor, then the Dell gets a strike against it.

A couple of ounces and a few fractions of an inch are not a big deal except when you're talking about something where form factor makes all tthe difference.

Your mileage may vary.

[Rirath]

Ahhemm.. This comment is as witty as if I stated that I can't hold X5 in my hand, because I'm afraid it'd break my joints and give me a hernia.

If Bill Gates can do it, so can you! Go get em! (Rocky music plays to a training montage)

So, v35 feels *too* puny for you. But, really, you do think too much of your strenghts if you get the feeling you could break it that easily, mr. Iron Paws

Perhaps it's just the pile of broken and mangled mice and game controllers that get me concerned. :twisted: Come on, I can't be the only one here to have smashed a cheap mouse or gamepad. :)

I suppose their *very* quick response to these complaints coudn't be counted as a little scared action?

Perhaps it was just good business sense and responce to customer demand. Personally, I think they should have just announced it along with the X5. I find it hard to believe they had no idea that Ipaq was coming out when everyone here did.

As amusing as this "debate" is, I have to wonder if any of you have held the V35, Axim X5, or iPAQ 1910 in your hands?

If not, what the heck are you arguing about?

Can't say I have... yet. I tried printing out an image of it and holding that... must say, I don't see all the fuss about the weight. It also fit easily in my pocket, course the folding feature helped. To be fair, I'm a little underwhelmed with the responce time... I'm still waiting for the start menu to come up. :wink: In short, I've got roughly 3 more weeks to wait and as you said, it's rather amusing. :D

[jizmo]

If Bill Gates can do it, so can you! Go get em! (Rocky music plays to a training montage)

Ahh .. That was just his "before" shot. You wouldn't like to see the "after" photo.

Anyway, I think he was supported by some kind of camouflaged harness at the moment :D

Perhaps it's just the pile of broken and mangled mice and game controllers that get me concerned. :twisted: Come on, I can't be the only one here to have smashed a cheap mouse or gamepad. :)

I've yet failed to crush any mice I've had. I'm *definitely* not going to risk my health by shaking hands with you if we'd happen to meet someday :wink:

Personally, I think they should have just announced it along with the X5.

Right. This decision made it look like a fussy and inpatient action and that there was need for some explanations about their line of PPC's.. :roll:

And what it comes to Rocky soundtrack, I think it should be factory-installed to every PPC bios. 8)

/jizmo

[Cortex]

any of you with your new axims want to weigh in (pun intended) :P

[GoldKey]

Actually, it is much bigger than a brick. According to this picture, you need a handcart just to move it around. http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/images/02Nov/DellPPC-Dale.jpg

:wink: :wink: :wink: 8O 8O 8O :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

Just random datapoints:

One handheld that a lot of people overlook is/was the Visor Prism. That was the very definition of a brick. 0.8" thick.

http://www.handspring.com/outlet/refurb_prism.jhtml

Despite that, it was one very popular unit. I saw it all over the place, at least in the NY metro area.

Even more compelling - the Visor Deluxe was 0.7" thick. The same as the Axim - and that was (still is) absolutely ubiquitous.

http://www.handspring.com/outlet/refurb_deluxe.jhtml

--bdj

[Rirath]

Actually, it is much bigger than a brick. According to this picture, you need a handcart just to move it around. http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/images/02Nov/DellPPC-Dale.jpg

Lol... so THAT'S what Bill meant in his comdex speech about wall sized devices.

[szamot]

people, people BIG is in. Look at J Lo's arse :oops: Unless Dale's hand is the size of Canadian snow shovel the device looks quite comfortable in his hand. Certainly more so than my 3850 with the sleeve.

[Rirath]

people, people BIG is in. Look at J Lo's arse

Done. :D Thanks for the tip.

[jizmo]

Among it's quite nice features of X5, it's strongest quality must be the price tag.

Am I the only one, who's concerned that when these devices come to Europe, the retailers will just use the low price to milk it, and sell them with bigger profit margin? It really wouldn't be the first time.

I wouldn't be surprised if the $199 would be sold at ~300e here. :?

/jizmo

[jizmo]

Meant 400e. 300e would still be cheap.

/jizmo