I Couldn't Find Anything Else To Complain About...

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2898007,00.html">http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2898007,00.html</a><br /><br />so I'll complain about the rebate form. :roll: David Coursey at ZDNet has a nice video available from Comdex on the Dell Axim and a very short write up - about 4 paragraphs. He then spends 11 paragraphs complaining about the $50 rebate, which to me speaks volumes about the device itself. I am not a fan of mail in rebates either, but if you are going to review a PDA, review the bloody PDA!<br /><br />Be sure to check out the video. The only downside is when I clicked on it, there were only two options, Windows Media and Real Ads... I mean Audio, :oops: both at 200Kbps, so I don't think the bandwidthally challenged will be able to view it.

[PPCRules]

:roll: does pretty much sum up the article.

But, yes, the video has good content.

[JeZaD]

Just download the asx using ASFRecorder (google it), don't waste time watching choppy video - regardless of your bandwidth!

Here's the link to download the video URL when you have ASFRecorder.

http://www.cnet.com/video/comdexflat/playlists/axim.asx

and after you've downloaded the video streams (4 of them!!) you can ignore the advert streams by just playing t02comdex_axim_2_hi.asf.

The 4 videos streams are 7MB in total.

[Ojster]

In Europe we'd be happy to actually get the mail-in rebate - at least I'd be. Or if not that, at least similar prices to the US ones.

Regards,
Peter

[psyfactor]

It also has something I've never seen on a Pocket PC before: a removable, rechargeable battery.

This reviewer would have been in the Palm camp for a long time. Come on, removable battery on pocket PC is not something new 8O

HP

[Duncan]

Sorry Ed! Got to disagree strongly here. This is not a review nor is it intended to be one - it is an editorial/opinion piece - clearly flagged up as so! As such he is spot on in what he says!

Dell are playing a dirty game with this whole rebate business - allowing them to claim a sub $200 device (powerful marketing point) while really selling a $250 device and keeping the option to end it any time while knowing a significant percentage of buyers will never claim!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dell is planning to only break even/even risk losing money on pre-Christmas sales even then! Their current marketing strategy is entirely about creating a false public perception in their favour and damging the competition - and by creating an unsustainable market for uber cheap high spec devices (ahead of time) they will damage the whole Pocket PC market.

This has been swilling around in my head for a while and, while he can be a berk, I applaud David Coursey for coming out and saying what he has.

Only my opinion of course...! :wink:

[Pony99CA]

Dell are playing a dirty game with this whole rebate business - allowing them to claim a sub $200 device (powerful marketing point) while really selling a $250 device and keeping the option to end it any time while knowing a significant percentage of buyers will never claim!

I wouldn't call it "dirty". Also, the claim that a significant portion of people won't claim them is suspect. For silly $1 rebates, that may be true, but I bet the larger the rebate, the more people claim it. How many people would throw away $50?

As for ending the rebate, they could, but I saw a Dell representative quoted as saying they eventually hoped to make the prices $199 and $299 permanently. You'll have to decide how much you trust Dell, I guess.

Steve

[Ed Hansberry]

Dell are playing a dirty game with this whole rebate business - allowing them to claim a sub $200 device (powerful marketing point) while really selling a $250 device and keeping the option to end it any time while knowing a significant percentage of buyers will never claim!
Oh please. Dell didn't invent rebates. I currently have a rebate pending from Kingston, Amazon and t-Mobile. I just got a rebate check in the past 6 months from T-Mobile on another phone and two rebates from BellSouth on the DSL service and DSL modem. 100% of them are in the $50-$100 range.

Palm does rebates, Dell does it, so does HP and every other company that sells to consumers. Annoying? Yes. Dirty, no, not even close. Smart business? ABSOLUTELY! There is a % that is never submitted. that is a free $50 for Dell everytime someone is clueless, lazy or stupid.

Look at it this way. Dell factored in a non-redemption factor when pricing this out. If that factor was 0% - meaning it was an instant click rebate, they might have had to change the rebate to $25 so they got the same net cash. Rebates drive prices down for people that bother to do it. And for those that don't bother - thank you very much for subsidizing my purchase! :lol:

[PPCRules]

The other payback is corporate sales, or any place the user isn't the purchaser. These rebates are much less likely claimed, effectively creating a higher price for these sales, to a market that is less price conscious. Again, smart business. A bit annoying? Yes.

[Duncan]

OK Ed - why do companies offer rebates instead of simply selling the goods for the lower price?

I know Dell didn't invent rebates - but any use of a rebate system is dodgy as anything! and yes - it is dirty business, not good business (except in the most cynical of business models).

The thing is - here Dell is using the rebate to give false appearances - and I don't think the Pocket PC market will benefit from what Dell are doing!

Frankly - isn't it about time consumers in the US kicked up a serious fuss about the use of rebates? It wouldn't wash in the UK and, if it was being introduced for the first time, it wouldn't wash in the States either! Why should people be made to put an effort in to get money back they shouldn't have paid in the first place? Those $50 that never get claimed - free money for Dell? Well - nothing is going to convince me that it's money ethically gained!

Steve,

I don't trust Dell at all. I never trust any company that 'hopes' to keep a low price permanent - there is an unspoken - 'unless we can get away with higher prices' in there!

As for people not claiming the rebates - historically that was the thinking behind rebates in the first place - so there must be something in it for the company (any marginal interest gained from having your $50 for a brief period will soon be swallowed up by the admin costs of processing rebates).

Any - to re-iterate - only my opinion - and as a card carrying Socialist my opinions on financial issues are bound to be suspect... :wink:

[Duncan]

On a different point -

PsyFactor,

I agree he wasn't as clear as he could be but Coursey seems to be referring to the fact that you can charge a battery separately in the Axim cradle if you follow the link to his colleagues review - http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2876220,00.html - it becaomes clearer.

I think that IS a first isn't it?

[Foo Fighter]

Jeez, and I thought I like the complain! :?

So what? Dell gives you a $50 rebate. Just mail it back, and at some unspecified date...you get $50 back. Just like magic! :roll:

At least when I complain about something, there is real substance to it. Like right now the room that I am working in is 69.1 degrees (Fahrenheit). That's way too cold. It should be no less than 70.3 degrees. I'm going to to go complain to someone right away. :wink:

[Fzara]

Hah.
Foo Fighter comes to save the day.
I am truly impressed with this new Dell, except for that battery. If he pulled it off that fast and easily, it become an issue if the battery gets loose or it could keep sliding off.
As for the $50 rebate: I like it. Of course its sneaky, but hell, why cant send in the rebate and get the extra dough?
Foo-HAH! Im working at 67 degrees. Beat that! :lol:

[Duncan]

Foo - haven't you got a coupon you can mail in to get your 1.2 degrees back in 8 to 10 weeks? :wink:

[GoldKey]

While I think it is OK for a company to do a rebate, it really burns me if they cant comply with the terms. I was looking through the forums on Dells site and their staff posted a message that rebates were taking 16 to 20 weeks.

http://delltalk.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=cc_faq&message.id=16

I find this completely unacceptable. That is 4-5 months to process a rebate. There is no reason for it to take this long. Heck the IRS can process an entire tax return and get you your refund in less time than that. This is just one piece of paper.

[Foo Fighter]

Foo - haven't you got a coupon you can mail in to get your 1.2 degrees back in 8 to 10 weeks? :wink:

I think it got lost in the mail. :wink:

[cpoole]

OK Ed - why do companies offer rebates instead of simply selling the goods for the lower price?



A quick search of google produced the following 2 links... I think that they explain quite well the theory behind rebates.

http://cellphones.about.com/library/bl_rebates.htm

http://www.pcguide.com/buy/ven/eval/factRebates-c.html

[Ed Hansberry]

OK Ed - why do companies offer rebates instead of simply selling the goods for the lower price?
I thought I siad that already. Look at it this way. Dell factored in a non-redemption factor when pricing this out. If that factor was 0% - meaning it was an instant click rebate, they might have had to change the rebate to $25 so they got the same net cash. Rebates drive prices down for people that bother to do it. And for those that don't bother - thank you very much for subsidizing my purchase!

It is a business decision. Sort of like coupons. Why don't they just cut the price 25 cents instead of making you find a coupon and cut it out?

I know Dell didn't invent rebates - but any use of a rebate system is dodgy as anything! and yes - it is dirty business, not good business (except in the most cynical of business models).

The thing is - here Dell is using the rebate to give false appearances - and I don't think the Pocket PC market will benefit from what Dell are doing!
You are being way too dramatic about this. The only thing the rebate is going to do is stimulate sales. Period.

Frankly - isn't it about time consumers in the US kicked up a serious fuss about the use of rebates? It wouldn't wash in the UK and, if it was being introduced for the first time, it wouldn't wash in the States either! Why should people be made to put an effort in to get money back they shouldn't have paid in the first place? Those $50 that never get claimed - free money for Dell? Well - nothing is going to convince me that it's money ethically gained!
uhm... ok.

I don't trust Dell at all. I never trust any company that 'hopes' to keep a low price permanent - there is an unspoken - 'unless we can get away with higher prices' in there!
Well, you don't do Dell much do you? Dell does keep the prices low. That is why they are still the fastest growing PC maker and were #1 until the HP/CPQ merger. I suspect in 2-3 years, they will be #1 again.

As for people not claiming the rebates - historically that was the thinking behind rebates in the first place - so there must be something in it for the company (any marginal interest gained from having your $50 for a brief period will soon be swallowed up by the admin costs of processing rebates).
The admin costs are NOTHING compared to the percentage that don't do the rebate.

Any - to re-iterate - only my opinion - and as a card carrying Socialist my opinions on financial issues are bound to be suspect... :wink:
Yup. Welcome to the world of capitalism. Let me introduce to you a long cherished practice by the number one and most stable economy in the world - REBATES! :wink:

[Ed Hansberry]

OK Ed - why do companies offer rebates instead of simply selling the goods for the lower price?



A quick search of google produced the following 2 links... I think that they explain quite well the theory behind rebates.

http://cellphones.about.com/library/bl_rebates.htm

http://www.pcguide.com/buy/ven/eval/factRebates-c.html
HOLY COW! :eek: I had no idea the failure rate was near 95%. Think about it - if Dell sells 100,000 Axims with the $50 rebate and 95,000 people don't follow through, that is $4,750,000 to their bottom line. Kudos to Dell. I'll bother with it and that subsidizes my price. 8)

[Janak Parekh]

HOLY COW! :eek: I had no idea the failure rate was near 95%. Think about it - if Dell sells 100,000 Axims with the $50 rebate and 95,000 people don't follow through, that is $4,750,000 to their bottom line. Kudos to Dell. I'll bother with it and that subsidizes my price. 8)
It doesn't bother me about the 95% not mailing it in, what does bother me is that they absolutely nitpick on the ones that have been mailed in. I understand that's part of strategy, but it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. I don't think I ever ended up getting the CF pack rebate back in the days of the 3650. I wonder what will happen about the Dell rebates...

Unfortunately or fortunately, the rebate process is not disappearing anytime soon unless there is someone influential enough to try and force change on the whole situation.

--bdj

[Ed Hansberry]

I don't think I ever ended up getting the CF pack rebate back in the days of the 3650. I wonder what will happen about the Dell rebates...
I got that one. I have never not gotten my rebate. As soon as I buy the item, I fill out the rebate, enter it as a future deposit in Microsoft Money and put the phone number or URL info in the notes field. If in 8 weeks it isn't here, Money reminds me and I make a phone call. Man I love computers.

[Pony99CA]

As for people not claiming the rebates - historically that was the thinking behind rebates in the first place - so there must be something in it for the company (any marginal interest gained from having your $50 for a brief period will soon be swallowed up by the admin costs of processing rebates).
The admin costs are NOTHING compared to the percentage that don't do the rebate.

I think Duncan's point was that, even if 100% of people claimed their rebates, Dell would still be getting interest on having their $50 for a period of time. However, that interest would be less than the administrative costs of processing rebates. That does make sense.

Steve

[PPCRules]

I am truly impressed with this new Dell, except for that battery. If he pulled it off that fast and easily, it become an issue if the battery gets loose or it could keep sliding off. There is a slide lock to keep the battery in place (360 deg flash demo on Dell's site points it out). The lock was would have been opened before the video segment shown. Once opened, the battery would slide on and off that easily.

[scrinch]

I just ordered a Treo 300 from Amazon for $499. It comes with a $200 rebate from Amazon and a $50 rebate from Sprint. So the bottom line price should be $249. But I have to activate my phone and then wait about six weeks to submit the rebate form, so that I can include my first month's Sprint bill with it. How many people are going to have forgotten about the rebate or lost the rebate form (it is gone from the Amazon website now) by the end of the six weeks?

So is this good business or sleazy business? I appreciate the $249 price, but in reality they get to advertise a $249 price while probably netting, on average, more like $400. I wonder if my attention span is long enough to collect my $250 in rebates? I had better set an alarm for late December in my calendar!

[Duncan]

Ed,

You almost had me until you said:

Let me introduce to you a long cherished practice by the number one and most stable economy in the world - REBATES!

Good one! :wink:

Nothing wrong with Capitalism - provided societal and ethical controls keep it in check - oops - bit of politics there... :oops:

In all seriousness - doesn't it worry you that big companies in the US get away with so much unquestioned? Isn't it any concern at all that the practice of rebates relies on two basic assumptions about a majority of US consumers:

1) That they are stupid and or lazy.

2) That they are greedy (basic psychology behind the whole coupons/rebates thing going on in the US - the desire to get something back).

I'm not saying that that does accurately describe the US consumer (who I would imagine are no better or worse than in any other Western country) - but if I WAS one I would be VERY disturbed!

FWIW - 95% shocked me as well - I expected about 80%!

The reason why it doesn't (largely) happen in the UK is because it is much more tightly regulated. I don't think Dell et. al. would be able to get way with it in the same way here. As far as I can recall MS is the only company regularly offering rebates on Windows and Office - and it is made very easy and transparent to claim!

One other thing though - surely no-one here really thinks that the 'I'm OK, I benefit so stuff the rest' (sorry for the paraphrase) stance is a particularly noble one?

[Ed Hansberry]

Ed,

You almost had me until you said:

Let me introduce to you a long cherished practice by the number one and most stable economy in the world - REBATES!

Good one! :wink:
I wasn't joking.

In all seriousness - doesn't it worry you that big companies in the US get away with so much unquestioned?
No. It worries me more when bureaucrats decide what is and isn't' best for me. If mail in rebates are bad, the American consumer will tell the company so and they will fail. If the company is fraudulent on the rebate (never provides the cash) a quick call to the BBB or FTC will clear it up. Let the market decide what works, not come clueless dweeb in congress/parliment. You said the "r" word. {shiver}

I'm not saying that that does accurately describe the US consumer (who I would imagine are no better or worse than in any other Western country) - but if I WAS one I would be VERY disturbed!
Nah. We can't figure out how to vote accurately. :LOL:

The reason why it doesn't (largely) happen in the UK is because it is much more tightly regulated.
Yeah, that "r" word. :pukeface:

One other thing though - surely no-one here really thinks that the 'I'm OK, I benefit so stuff the rest' (sorry for the paraphrase) stance is a particularly noble one?
Yup. I think it works great. The "rest" can get off of their duffs and fill the forms out. If they don't want to, that is fine by me. It drives my price down. We had a few other countries that tried the "for the greater good of the whole" crap several times this century. Russa gave up on it entirely. Cuba and China aren't doing so hot with it.

[SofaTater]

I don't mind filling in and mailing rebates -- it's kind of like an income tax return in that it gives you the warm fuzzies of getting free money (except that income tax returns are a false wam fuzzy!).

The thing I don't like, however, is that Dell is heavily promoting these devices as $199 and $299 (their product manager even described them this way in the Cnet video). Well, they actually cost $250 and $350 -- they should be promoted as such, or at least the lower prices should be qualified with a "after mail-in rebate."

Another rebate factor is that when you buy something retail, you are paying sales tax on the full price, so that eats a little of the rebate away over a straightforward price reduction.

[Kati Compton]

Another rebate factor is that when you buy something retail, you are paying sales tax on the full price, so that eats a little of the rebate away over a straightforward price reduction.

Very true. But on the other hand, in a case like this if you have a 10% of coupon, you're getting 10% off of the full price, not the post-rebate price. Not too big of a difference, actually. $264 vs. $269. But $5 is $5. With interests rates so low, it makes up for not having the $50 for a while. :)

[Jason Dunn]

As long as rebates are honoured in a timely fasion and without hassle to the consumer, there's nothing sinister about them. Duncan, you're assuming that the only reason companies do rebates is to prey on the stupidity of consumers. I urge you to go read that Web link posted previously - it gives some very valid reasons for why rebates are used. Rebates are a way for a company to offer a lower price point temporarily without truly lowering the price. We all know that in the tech industry component prices can shift. Unlike a desktop computer industry where they can slap a new number on a box, tweak a component, then sell if for more to compensate for the increased component costs, PDAs are a different beast. They're more like cars - and you'd be downright pissed if you went to buy a car one week and it was $2000 more than last week. Cars have "cash back rebates" as well.

And let's not forget that Dell is a "just in time" company - they live on razor-thin margins, and this rebate offer may be a way for them to store up some extra money for purchasing the Axims in bulk. Unlike their desktop computer business, Dell has to order these in advance and hope they sell through their inventory - a very different business model for them.

Ultimately, this is the nature of a free market economy - like others have said, it rebates were rejected by consumers, they would not be used. If rebates weren't honoured, consumers would know that the price is really $250, not $200, and that would hurt sales of that product. It's a natural economic cycle that is self-regulating, and there's certainly nothing sinister about it.

Capatalism tempered by social justice rules baby! :rock on dude!:

[Duncan]

Ed - I'm stunned. If you genuinely believe that lack of regulation has truly (cough'enron'cough) benefited the American people, that the wholescale disenfranchisement swathes of the population is funny, that the consumer really has that much power, that the only alternative to the US system is dictatorial Communism - OK. I won't argue. But you surprise me - that's all. I think that is a good point to bring this little sideways step to an end.

[GoldKey]

As long as rebates are honoured in a timely fasion and without hassle to the consumer, there's nothing sinister about them.

Would you call 16 to 20 weeks timely? Given the December ship date, I may very well have next years tax refund before i get this rebate.

[Foo Fighter]

I had a friend that purchased a Casio EM-500 back when that company was giving away rebates for, I think $50. He waited MONTHS before he ever got his money. :x

[toshtoshtosh]

Assuming 75% of people don't return rebates:

Would you rather order the Dell at $237.5 with no rebate or at $249 with a $50 dollar rebate (2 month waiting period)?

If your answer is the latter then you shouldn't complain about the great system we have.

If you like the former then please send a $237 check with your name and address to ED. I'm sure he wouldn't mind running your order for you and making an easy $37.5 per pop :lol:.

[Ed Hansberry]

Ed - I'm stunned. If you genuinely believe that lack of regulation has truly (cough'enron'cough) benefited the American people, that the wholescale disenfranchisement swathes of the population is funny, that the consumer really has that much power, that the only alternative to the US system is dictatorial Communism - OK. I won't argue. But you surprise me - that's all. I think that is a good point to bring this little sideways step to an end.
Crooks are crooks. The Enron execs were crooks and if they were unable to get money one way, they would have found another. We have crooks in other companies and crooks in Washington. Just like you have crooks in your neck of the woods. You were the one that somehow linked rebates to some form of social unjustice. How you came to that conclusion I'll never know.

And in case you were wondering - BLUE is the best color. :wink:

[Ed Hansberry]

Assuming 75% of people don't return rebates:

Would you rather order the Dell at $237.5 with no rebate or at $249 with a $50 dollar rebate (2 month waiting period)?

If your answer is the latter then you shouldn't complain about the great system we have.

If you like the former then please send a $237 check with your name and address to ED. I'm sure he wouldn't mind running your order for you and making an easy $37.5 per pop :lol:.
Send that check to:
Ed Hansberry
Attn Axim Order Dept.
P.O. Box 10001
Franklin, TN 10001.

[szamot]

Rebates work both ways. If your company buys you a PDA, thank you my company, and I claim it not only do I get my purchase price but I also get my rebate. This time I got my $80 rebated by the sales person but if I wanted to me equally devious I would have done it the other way and made money on this deal.
People quit complaining about rebates! If you don't like the idea of rebates join the other 95% protesting it already.

[Xyress]

I thought it was a $100 rebate on the EM-500 ... and I *never* received mine. I even called up once and they said they had received it and were still "processing" it. I never heard from them again. I gave up on it.

[Duncan]

Jason,

You raise some very valid point about good uses of rebates. I'm still inclined to view it as a clumsy means of achieving the very aims you bring up - but I concede the point.

Ed,

You and I wondered along this path together mate! Still there are centuries of social and political history that inform our wildly different world views - including out opinions of rebates - so I'm not about to try and convince you I'm right and you're wrong!!!

Anyway - as you should realise by now - Red is the best colour... :lol:

[Ed Hansberry]

Anyway - as you should realise by now - Red is the best colour... :lol:
How appropriate - commie red. :wink: :lol: :scatter:

[Fishie]

Just a quick note here.
Capitalism just like Communism is impossible in reality, its a eutopian concept wich becouse of the faults inherent in the systems is impossible to work as intended.
Thats why there IS regulation, thats why the US has a big history of corporate welfare not dissimilar to western European countris forms of personal welfare(unemployment benefits, free healthcare, government guaranteed pensions etcetera).
Capitalism and Comunism both are akin to anarchism and in order for the exceses to be minimised need clear rules to work, they need a middle ground to keep things in balance.

[Steven Cedrone]

Time to intervene. :(

Let's bring the discussion back on topic, please drop the political discussions... :roll:

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[Steven Cedrone]

I thought it was a $100 rebate on the EM-500 ... and I *never* received mine. I even called up once and they said they had received it and were still "processing" it. I never heard from them again. I gave up on it.

They are counting on you to do just that...

I would never walk away from a $100.00 rebate. Call 'em again, and again, and again!!! Then call them some more!!! :twisted:

Steve

[JornadaJ]

Keep this in mind as well. You pay taxes on that $50 up front, too. Do you get the tax difference? No...

So, 8% sales tax on $50 is $4. (Approximated, sales tax here is really 7% and some change.). Add in postage, and as the article pointed out, your time. Let's say fifteen minutes. I make about $20 an hour, after taxes. So that's five bucks. We're now at over NINE DOLLARS that you *don't* get back from Dell. That brings our rebate to about $40.

Using that same $40 sitting in my account, earning interest, we can deduct opportunity cost lost over those '6 to 8 weeks.' (From what I read, more like 16 to 18.) That brings the real rebate down even more when you think that Dell *has* that money and *is* earning interest.

I guess we should be grateful to Dell, huh?

[Programmer]

Time to intervene. :(

Let's bring the discussion back on topic, please drop the political discussions... :roll:

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

I thought this was the topic - Rebates. If it isn't did I start reading the wrong thread?

I am way against Rebates. I think they are a dubious practice and just because a company can do it doesn't make it moral. Dell has no need to delay the processing other than to borrow your money for a period of time. It is a deceptive practice beause they claim one price ($299) in interviews and rumor. When in actuallity it is really $349.

This hurts the competition by making their product look less then the currently priced products on the market.

It screws up the math for tax calcuation so that alone should be illegal. (Actually the gov probably loves this)

I HATE going into a Circuit City store (Future Shop) for this very reason... All the prices are advertised so I have to do math in order to find out what my actual cost is. :evil:

Robert

PS. My avartar (if working) is not me.. It is a girl I know.. Dang she is a cutie. :P

[Kati Compton]

Keep this in mind as well. You pay taxes on that $50 up front, too. Do you get the tax difference? No...

Another reason why I'm glad that I don't have to pay tax on a Dell purchase. So I get the benefit of the 10% off including the full price, but don't have to pay the tax penalty for the same.

[Rob Alexander]

I don't mind filling in and mailing rebates -- it's kind of like an income tax return in that it gives you the warm fuzzies of getting free money (except that income tax returns are a false wam fuzzy!).

Free money?! Sofa, it's your money! Look, here's a way to get lots of warm fuzzies. You just send me $100 a week and starting 6 months from now, I'll send you $100 a week for every week you keep doing it. You'll get lots of free money and warm fuzzies and I'll just be practicing a little Ed-ian capitalism. :lol:

The thing I don't like, however, is that Dell is heavily promoting these devices as $199 and $299 (their product manager even described them this way in the Cnet video). Well, they actually cost $250 and $350 -- they should be promoted as such, or at least the lower prices should be qualified with a "after mail-in rebate."

And there you hit the nail on the head. It's not that companies shouldn't be allowed to offer rebates. It's that they shouldn't be permitted to mislead consumers. If an item costs $249 with a $50 rebate, then the price is $249 and they should have to advertise that (and should certainly be welcome to mention the rebate as well). If they say the price is $199, then their advertsing is untruthful and there are already laws in the US to prevent that. They just aren't very well enforced.

[gliscameria]

voodoo2 card.... 50$ rebate....

Mailed in.... 3 months... no rebate....

Called the service number..... Some company that knew nothing of the rebate... tisk tisk....


Not to say that that is typical of rebate systems or anything, but it had been my only experience.

Just like the 'free' stuff they used to have at comp city.... :cry:

I doubt Dell would pull that kind of crap though. Horrraaaaaah for Dell!

I can understand how a commie would be mad at a company for taking advantage of morons in order to give smarter customers an advantage.
:D (kidding)

Does Walmart sell Dell products...........?

[szamot]

[quote="

PS. My avartar (if working) is not me.. It is a girl I know.. Dang she is a cutie. :P

That girl is my baby SISTER - you just be careful there man - no funny business. They have Future Shop in US?

[szamot]

[quote="I can understand how a commie would be mad at a company for taking advantage of morons in order to give smarter customers an advantage.
:D (kidding)

Does Walmart sell Dell products...........?[/quote]

Reality check boys and girls having had the pleasure of living under both communism and capitalism you would be diluting yourself if you thought there is actually any difference between the two. Greed, corruption and exploitation are the 3 core values at the heart of them both.

PS. I am going to get spanked for this one…and everyone knows that green is the best. geniuses always pick green.

[Programmer]

That girl is my baby SISTER - you just be careful there man - no funny business. They have Future Shop in US?

No Future Shop here but I am a Canadian so I remember them well.. It tooks me many months to say Circuit City. :-)


Robert

[Ed Hansberry]

And there you hit the nail on the head. It's not that companies shouldn't be allowed to offer rebates. It's that they shouldn't be permitted to mislead consumers. If an item costs $249 with a $50 rebate, then the price is $249 and they should have to advertise that (and should certainly be welcome to mention the rebate as well). If they say the price is $199, then their advertsing is untruthful and there are already laws in the US to prevent that. They just aren't very well enforced.
The only ones saying it is $199 and $299 is us and places like CNet. Dell.com shows $249 and $349 with a line through it then $199/$299 saying "includes $50 rebate."

[Paragon]

Assuming 75% of people don't return rebates:

Would you rather order the Dell at $237.5 with no rebate or at $249 with a $50 dollar rebate (2 month waiting period)?

If your answer is the latter then you shouldn't complain about the great system we have.

If you like the former then please send a $237 check with your name and address to ED. I'm sure he wouldn't mind running your order for you and making an easy $37.5 per pop :lol:.
Send that check to:
Ed Hansberry
Attn Axim Order Dept.
P.O. Box 10001
Franklin, TN 10001.

My check is in the mail Ed. I left the amount blank, you can fill in the amount.

Dave

[Rob Alexander]

And there you hit the nail on the head. It's not that companies shouldn't be allowed to offer rebates. It's that they shouldn't be permitted to mislead consumers. If an item costs $249 with a $50 rebate, then the price is $249 and they should have to advertise that (and should certainly be welcome to mention the rebate as well). If they say the price is $199, then their advertsing is untruthful and there are already laws in the US to prevent that. They just aren't very well enforced.
The only ones saying it is $199 and $299 is us and places like CNet. Dell.com shows $249 and $349 with a line through it then $199/$299 saying "includes $50 rebate."

Then I'd offer no complaint as the only thing I believe needs any possible government intevention is the assurance that advertising and fulfillment is honest. People can assess for themselves their liklihood of completing the rebate forms and how much it's worth to them to do so. The ones that bother me are ads from places like Best Buy that do things like...

Acme Rocket Skates
pay us $249
less $100 rebate that you'll never see
$149

[Ed Hansberry]

People can assess for themselves their liklihood of completing the rebate forms and how much it's worth to them to do so. The ones that bother me are ads from places like Best Buy that do things like...

Acme Rocket Skates
pay us $249
less $100 rebate that you'll never see
$149

You guys really need to find more onerous things to complain about. Go open the EULA that comes with Windows Messenger.

[Foo Fighter]

About the only thing I can find to complain about is the overall size. IT'S HUGE! :?

Still, you can't beat the price. $199? I'm still in shock. 8O

[Jonathon Watkins]

For a funny look at rebates head on over to Ubersoft:

http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20021209.html
http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20021210.html
http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20021211.html

Ubersoft is great - it's one of my first stops of the day.