ActiveSync using Microsoft's Bluetooth USB adapter??????

[mobileMike]

I hear Microsoft's Bluetooth keyboard and mouse are now available in stores. I have also heard through the Bluetooth Yahoo eGroup that the USB adapter does not support Bluetooth's Serial Profile. Does this mean you can not use the Microsoft Bluetooth Adapter with Microsoft ActiveSync?

Does this mean you have to choose Bluetooth keyboard/mouse or Bluetooth ActiveSync (using another vendor's USB adapter) not both?

- mike

[intastella]

I've got the new Microsoft Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse (a little flaky to get going but great when they work). My Ipaq 3970 can see the desktop and they've 'bonded', but in the Bluetooth Manager on the Ipaq my list of 'actions' available are simply to bond with the desktop or not.

There are none of the other options that I remember seeing when I bonded with someone else's Bluetooth hub (the serial stuff you mentioned). I can tick a box on the Ipaq that says Activesync Partner, but on my desktop, there's no real bluetooth connection manager software to speak of and so I'm beginning to think there's no way to get them to communicate with each other.

This is unbelievably dumb and more than a little misleading by Microsoft. They said in their press release about the product
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/apr02/04-18BluetoothPR.asp:

Consumers will now be able to quickly and easily create a personal area network (PAN), allowing them to wirelessly link their Bluetooth portable devices and peripherals to their computers by simply plugging in Microsoft's USB Bluetooth transceiver. ... In addition, the transceiver will also act as a portal to the PC for up to seven Bluetooth devices, and seamless integration with Windows XP will make it easier than ever for consumers to connect additional peripherals to their computer.

Uhm... except for PocketPCs it would appear. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Hopefully I am.

Anyone else?

c

[DubWireless]

In the Reviewers Guide for the Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse it has this footnote:

Up to seven devices that adhere to the Bluetooth SIG (Special Interest Group) profiles can be connected at any one time: wireless connections to Bluetooth printers that use Hardcopy Cable Replacement profile, wireless modem connections to Bluetooth cell phones that use Dial-Up Networking profile, and wire-less connections to Bluetooth mouse and keyboard products that use Human Interface Device profile.


so no example of a Serial Port Profile - although I can't find a full spec with the Profiles it does support listed (even on the Bluetooth SIG website) - it is using the a CSR (Cambridge Silicon Radio) chipset that several other vendors use - of course the profiles to support can be selected by the vendors.

strange the iPAQ doesnt list any services (profiles) that the Transciever can offer - sometimes that happens when it can't query the adapter successfully maybe due to security settings?

(looking for available services)
opening the iPAQ's Bluetooth Manager and Search for devices. A list of discovered devices appears, check the box beside the Bluetooth Transceiver (i.e. attached to your Desktop or Laptop) and tap Save and then OK.

back in the Bluetooth Manager main screen you should see your Desktop or Laptop (that the Transciever is attached to), tap it once and it looks for available services, in the Actions menu it will have a list of all services

if it says "Failes to discover Services for this device" then there is a problem finsing the services the adapter can offer - if it says "Services retrieved are in Actions menu" and it has no services listed then this is a problem!

the other adapters I've tried show a list of services including a Serial Service - to get ActiveSync working with bluetooth adapters / cards (TDK, 3COM, Toshiba) I needed to identify the Bluetooh Serial Host Port (i.e. the Bluetooth Serial Port of the (Host) Computer the adapter is connected to) - once that port is identified you can select that in the Active Connection Settings - Check the box "Allow Serial or Infrared Connection in this COM port" and select the Bluetooth Host Port from the drop down list

note: already need a partnership created and synced using the cradle or cable - otherwise to start with a fresh ActiveSync install you need to hack the registery to get a Bluetooth connection working

hope to get the MS Bluetooth Mouse / Keyboard Kit in a week or two to tinker around with it then

[mobileMike]

Someone has posted on Socket Communication's support forum that there is no Serial profile. He is now returning his purchase. This person had previously used another Bluetooth adapter on the desktop to ActiveSync with a PDA using Socket's Bluetooth CF card. I say this because it was not an issue of the person knowing or not how to setup the connection. It just wasn't possible using the Serial Profile.

- mike

[DubWireless]

thanks for the update mike - looks like they were being 100% accurate on it's capabilities in the Reviewers Guide - only mentioning the HCRP, HID and DUN profiles :(

on the Bluetooth SIG site - the Transciever is entered as a SubSystem item rather then a Product in it's own right - so none of it's Profiles are listed (unlike other Bluetooth USB Adapters)

the CSR Bluecore is used in several USP Adapters that support more profiles (3COM, TDK, Hitachi, Brian Boxes, Billington, MSI and more http://www.csr.com/applications/qual-usb.htm ) hopefully driver updates will allow for more profiles to be used - suppose it's a wait and see situation

[markl]

I've had the same problem with this - it doesn't support the Serial Profile. It wouldn't be so bad if you could use the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse with another Bluetooth transciever but since Microsoft don't release the passcodes, you can't pair them with anything else. :-(

Mark

[mobileMike]

What other USB adapter supports HID profile required by the keyboard and mouse?

Even if you get them paired there is still no garuntee the Windows drivers will work with another product. If someone gets this to work, that would mean that this keyboard and mouse could be used with most any Windows operating system and not just Windows XP which is supported by Microsoft.

- mike

[Raleighs]

I just bought the new keyboard at Best Buy, and no problem hooking it up. So now, I tried my Ipaq, and it sees the computer, and my computer sees the Ipaq. COOL! so I now bonded both devices... and I can't do ANYTHING! What the.... :evil:

When I try to Activesync, it gives the error "Device XXXX has no Serial Port services available".

Did Microsoft forget to add the Serial Port service on their bluetooth product?

r

[markl]

Yeah, that's right - you can't use anything with it that depends on Virtual COM ports (i.e. the serial profile).

It wouldn't be so bad if a driver update could fix this, but it would probably need something more along the lines of a firmware or hardware revision. Seems to me to be a glaringly obvious omission, which leads me to suspect that it's quite intentional, and not a mistake at all.

I reckon that Microsoft will probably leave the "Microsoft Optical Desktop for Bluetooth" product as it is, and then come up with something like "Microsoft Optical Desktop Professional for Bluetooth" that supports serial and costs more. :-(

Mark

[cajler]

So, I can't use my e550G w/ the Ambicom BT card in conjunction with the MS BT mouse receiver.

Can I get a BT PC card like this http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=285816 to use for connecting both the mouse and my PPC so I can eliminate the MS USB receiver?

[markl]

No, at present you can't do this.

There are 3 separate problems that together result in a very frustrating situation:

1 - You can't use the Microsoft Bluetooth transceiver with a PDA (because it doesn't support the serial profile).
2 - You can't use the Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard or mouse with any Bluetooth transceiver (or PCMCIA card) other than Microsoft's own one.
3 - You can't use the Microsoft Bluetooth transceiver and another Bluetooth transceiver (or PCMCIA card) at the same time.

Not an ideal state of affairs..... :-(

Mark

[FredMurphy]

I was interested in a MS Bluetooth Mouse for my laptop, primarily because my TDK Bluetooth PCMCIA card is usually in there already and it would eliminate the need for the USB transceiver that comes with my Wireless Intellimouse Explorer. It seems that MS has really screwed this one up by crippling their BT transceiver. :roll:

I've also read that TDK are partnering up with MS (http://www.tdksystems.com/corporate/press/content.asp?id=42) software-wise on their BT products. I wonder if this would mean TDK including the HID profile to work with MS hardware?

Wireless specialist, TDK Systems, will offer Microsoft’s Bluetooth software with its ‘go blue’ range of Bluetooth hardware solutions, which includes USB and PC Card devices .....

..... Microsoft’s software allows peripherals such as keyboards, mice and gaming devices to be connected to the PC without cables. TDK Systems’ PC Card and USB Adaptors allow PCs to be wirelessly connected in a wide variety of applications using Bluetooth.


Despite this quote, unfortunately reading further reveals this means only their USB, not their PCMCIA, adaptor anyway. :x

[markl]

This probably just means that TDK are going to provide drivers that work with the Bluetooth stack added into Windows XP by hotfix Q323183.

This hotfix will make its way into Windows XP Service Pack 2, providing built-in support for Bluetooth in the OS. I imagine that most vendors will start to produce drivers that work with this.

However, this is a separate issue from the issues with the Microsoft bluetooth hardware itself.

Mark

[Raleighs]

My reply from Microsoft about the Bluetooth Keyboard:

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Support!

I am Shiv from Microsoft Consumer Hardware Product Support, and I will be helping you today.

If I have understood correctly, we are not being able to Activesync the iPaq with the computer using the transceiver of the Wireless Optical Desktop BT. Also, we are encountering an error ‘Device XXXXX has no Serial Port services available’.

Raleigh, it seems like the iPaq needs a serial profile to use it on the Bluetooth transceiver.

Unfortunately, in Windows XP, our Bluetooth stack currently supports these 3 profiles:

- Human Interface Device
- Hard Copy Cable Replacement
- Dial-up Networking profiles

It does not have support for the serial profile. So it seems syncing a PocketPC and some file transfers are not in the current implementation of the technology. Much as I hate to be the carrier of bad news, that’s all I can tell you. Please let me know if I can help you in any other way.

If you are not satisfied with the product, I can suggest you take a refund for the cost of the Wireless Optical Desktop BT. For a refund, please look up the information at the following location:

http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm

Please let me know if this answers your question.

I am looking forward to your response and thank you again for using Microsoft Online Support!

Have a great day!

Shiv
Microsoft Consumer Hardware Product Support
http://www.microsoft.com/support

[bfischer]

Just bought a Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse. Works great. But I was really disappointed when I discovered, that the Microsoft Bluetooth services didn't even offer an ActiveSync service. Currently, there's no way I can sync my PDA running Pocked PC 2002 using Bluetooth. Microsoft has to correct this issue. In the meantime; has anyone been successful using a third party driver for this?

/Fischer.

[markl]

In theory the vendors ought to be able to modify their syncing software (supposedly including Microsoft themselves who make ActiveSync) to make it work with this product. This is what Microsoft is telling people has to be done.

However, the lack of REAL Serial Profile support in the Microsoft Bluetooth stack is a serious shortcoming.

The best place to monitor the progress of this is the Microsoft hardware newsgroup microsoft.public.mshardware.product.

Mark

[bfischer]

Well, it seems Microsoft targets their Bluetooth tranciever to be used solely for MS hardware.

The HID, HCRP, and DUN profiles are in fact (being) built into Windows XP - they are not a part of the Bluetooth optical mouse/desktop-package.

It follows, that the MS tranciever is being sold without any Bluetooth services at all.

This is not a full product, and potential buyers should wait for the release of the full service set.

Support for Bluetooth wireless technology is available only for Windows XP Service Pack 1 (SP1) or later versions. The HID, HCRP, and DUN profiles are implemented.

/Fischer

[markl]

I don't think that the Microsoft Bluetooth transceiver is intended to be used solely for MS hardware, it's just that there isn't much else that can be used with it right now.

The HID, HCRP and DUN profiles ARE actually part of the Bluetooth mouse/keyboard package because this package comes with hotfix Q323183 which is what provides a Bluetooth stack in Windows XP SP1. At present you can't get this hotfix unless you purchase the Bluetooth mouse/keyboard (or just the mouse) set. Both these packages come with the Microsoft Bluetooth transceiver, but this is just a plain dumb radio device - it is the software driving it (i.e. the Bluetooth stack on the host PC) that defines what services it supports.

Although the Microsoft Bluetooth stack for Windows XP (Q323183) was only submitted for qualification for the HID, HCRP and DUN profiles, it DOES also support the Serial Profile. What is different is how it is exposed. Other stacks expose the serial port as a COMX: name, whereas the MS Bluetooth stacks expose it through a socket.

Therefore, vendors of Bluetooth syncing type applications will need to modify their applications to make them work with this technique. Microsoft didn't get their implementation of Serial Port profile qualified by the Bluetooth SIG because it was a new way of implementing it and they had nothing to run on top of it. :-)

According to members of the MS Bluetooth team, the major vendors (including Microsoft (for ActiveSync) and Nokia (for PC Suite), etc) will be releasing versions of their applications that work with the Microsoft Bluetooth stack. I wish MS had just done it the normal way in the first place, but there is precendent for them changing the standard and making vendors adopt it. They did the same thing with Infra-red (IrDA) support in Windows 2000.

Mark

[bfischer]

Mark,

Thanks for your reply. It's a comfort to know that Microsoft will eventually release the much needed support for Pocket PC sync with their Bluetooth adaptor.

I read an interview with MS boss Mike Foley where he stated:

Currently, Windows is supporting three Bluetooth profiles. If you’re not familiar with profiles, they are rules outlined by the SIG for device behavior. Profiles are how you can tell what scenarios each device will enable, and which Bluetooth devices will be operable with others. Windows currently supports Hard Copy Cable Replacement, Dial-Up Networking and Human Input Devices. This enables wireless printing to a Bluetooth printer, access to the Internet anywhere using a Bluetooth cell phone as a modem and using Bluetooth mice and keyboards for additional functionality and range. We will continue to add profiles to this list as we hear from consumers what scenarios they would like made possible

I guess MS by now heard about this scenario from their customers...

/Fischer

[bfischer]

I got the Microsoft Bluetooth Tranciever working under Linux.

Using the build-in Bluetooth of my Pocket Loox, I'm now happily surfing the internet from my livingroom couch! The MS mouse works, too.

Thanks to the guys at http://bluez.sourceforge.net

No ActiveSync using Linux of course, so I can't sync my Outlook data.

/Fischer

[Testosteron]

Hi!

Anything new about that topic?

Regards
Testosteron

[markl]

Nope, nothing new AFAIK. Still the same situation.

Mark

[Testosteron]

Does anybody know if it works to use a Nokia 6310i as modem over bluetooth. Is the Dial Up connection enough for that or is the serial port required?

Maybe there is any solution to use another bluetooth dongle together with the Microsoft dongle?

Regards
Tetso

[markl]

I actually tried this with a Nokia 6310.

You can see the phone, pair with it, and see that it offers the DUN service. It then adds it as a "Standard Modem over Bluetooth". You can then create a new dial-up networking connection and set it to use this modem.

But I don't think that I ever managed to get it to connect to the Internet - I think I always got a "The modem is not responding" error message. I know that the phone works fine because I used it over Bluetooth with an iPaq 3970.

I don't have the 6310 any more, so I can't test it again.

Mark

[markl]

In theory, you should be able to use the MS bluetooth mouse and keyboard with another Bluetooth dongle if the dongle supports the Bluetooth HID profile, and I don't think any of them do at the moment.

Having said that, there have been some reports of people being able to use the mouse and keyboard with the built-in Bluetooth on some new Toshiba laptops.

Mark

[Testosteron]

Hi!

I searched a little bit and found this:

http://www.anycom.com/products/usb220-specifications.html


That should solve the problems, a Bluetooth dongle with a new layout including HID profile, etc. .

I'm really disappointed about the Microsoft Bluetooth Adapter, this product would be really great, if it supported the serial profile. But it's always like that, there's alway one hitch.

Regards
Testo

[gills702]

Hello,

Does anyone know if I can use the Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard with the iPaq 5450(has bluetooth built-in)?

Or more technically, does anyone know if HID is a supported profile on the iPaq 5450?

Thanks,

Gills702

[todd_bt]

This is in response to an earlier question about the Nokia 6310. This is a fairly common interpretation problem in the Bluetooth Specification. Using the workaround reduces your security (You'll no longer change link keys on every connection)

Microsoft has a support article here about how to work around it:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;811235

Although, I just found out the the article is wrong. The correct Registry entry to add is

"Change Link Key Always" Where the article says "Change Link Key"

[freitasm]

In theory, you should be able to use the MS bluetooth mouse and keyboard with another Bluetooth dongle if the dongle supports the Bluetooth HID profile, and I don't think any of them do at the moment.

Having said that, there have been some reports of people being able to use the mouse and keyboard with the built-in Bluetooth on some new Toshiba laptops.

Mark

Yep.. Happy here after using a MS Keyboard and Mouse with my TDK.

All widcomm software after release 1.4 support HID. I've installed the TDK beta a couple of weeks ago and here is the result (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=1008).

Note that DLINK have already released the software, TDK will do in due course. I was told by Bluetake (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=995) that their new version will be out soon too.

So, buy the MS Keyboar and Mouse, and use with other adapters. The best of both worlds - although MS should support more profiles, but as we know the Bluetooth support is part of the OS (Win XP), and not an option for Win98 or W2k users. For these (like me), mix and use!

[freitasm]

Hello,

Does anyone know if I can use the Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard with the iPaq 5450(has bluetooth built-in)?

Or more technically, does anyone know if HID is a supported profile on the iPaq 5450?

Thanks,

Gills702

No, and no...

[SHoTTa35]

so for the benefit of everyone lemme bring this back to life.... since you say the TDK works in your review that i think alot of people would be glad to hear this. I'll now get my mouse, TDK receiver and have some fun!! :D

So YES people go buy those mice and sync with your PPC and tell MS to quit being a pansy and give us the software support for hardware so we don't gotta buy extra stuff!

[freitasm]

Just a minute - you'll need the TDK drivers 1.4, but they're still in beta. But close...

[firsttiger]

Just a minute - you'll need the TDK drivers 1.4, but they're still in beta. But close...

Are there any other bluetooth cards that will work besides the TDK? I recently bought an Ambicom with the hopes of using it as the glue that will join my laptop to the MS BT Mouse and Keyboard and to my Ipaq 5555. Has anyone else had any luck?

[freitasm]

DLINK has the software 1.4 out. There's a discussion on Geekzone on how to make the Microsoft Bluetooth adapter work with other drivers (and people reported success in using it!)

[markl]

Yep, same for me.

I yesterday installed the WIDCOMM 1.4 drivers, and have since been using them to drive the Microsoft Bluetooth transceiver. The MS mouse and keyboard still works fine, as normal, and I can now use the iPaq to ActiveSync over Bluetooth. All works fine.

I'm very impressed with the quality of the WIDCOMM drivers.

Regards,
Mark

[firsttiger]

Has anyone managed to connect to the MS BT Mouse and Keyboard, and the iPaq through a Bluetooth CF Card? The reason why I wanted to use a CF Card and attach it through a PCMCIA adaptor was because I didn't want to be carrying a dongle around as I intend to connect all these devices through my laptop. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[markl]

If the drivers for the Bluetooth CF card support the HID profile then it should work.

Mark

[bfischer]

After a long wait, the Widcomm drivers finally made the Microsoft Bluetooth adaptor come alive.

Highly recommended for Pocket PC owners.

/BFischer

[HereToday]

bfischer,

Do you mean that you are using the Widcomm drivers with the MS Bluetooth Adaptor that comes with the Keyboard and Mouse?

If so, where did you get the Widcomm drivers?

I have the MS Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse combo and am dying to get ActiveSync working as well for my h5555. I'll buy another Bluetooth solution but only if I have to.

TIA

[freitasm]

Look here (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=8&TopicId=393) for this information.

[pewter_tankard]

All widcomm software after release 1.4 support HID. I've installed the TDK beta a couple of weeks ago and here is the result (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=1008).

...and that was in June... "Soon" is a very relative term where beta testing is supposed!

[HereToday]

freitasm,

Any idea where I can get the BTW-1.4.1.6.zip? I went where you indicated and the link was broken. I searched around the site but couldn't find what I was looking for (I also don't read or speak Chinese so that made things a little more difficult).

If you have it and can send it I would be greatful :D

TIA

[freitasm]

Nope. Sorry, that post was entered by one of our users. The files are moved rather quickly. The procedure is still valid, if you have the files.

[BigMrC]

Are there any updates to this thread? I've got the ms bluetooth keyboard / mouse and an iPaq H2210 and want to use active sync via bluetooth, but cannot find the widcomm drivers which supposedly allow this to happen. Anybody?

[Anthony_molg]

Are there any updates to this thread? I've got the ms bluetooth keyboard / mouse and an iPaq H2210 and want to use active sync via bluetooth, but cannot find the widcomm drivers which supposedly allow this to happen. Anybody?

Same problem, same hardware, no luck. Is ther anybody with a fix, yet???