HP iPaq Pocket PC H1910 [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Jason Dunn

11-14-2002, 01:45 AM

<a href="http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-2709830-404-20665487.html?tag=ld">http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-2709830-404-20665487.html?tag=ld</a> So remember that picture we posted here a while back that most of you thought was fake? You should have known better! :wink: I think it's actually a pretty good looking device, and with 48 MB of RAM and a removable battery, this might do quite well against the Dell and Viewsonic devices. <img src="http://a.r.tv.com/cnet.1d/i/uff/20665487/ovr/20665487_1_overview_300.gif" /> "We first caught a peek at the H1910 about a month ago and now have a preproduction unit in our hands. We're impressed that HP has managed to reduce the size of the device without shrinking the screen. Toshiba's e310 and new e330, for example, are thin and light but have the disadvantage of being longer than Palm devices, which makes them less pocket-friendly. Meanwhile, the H1910 measures 4.46 by 2.75 by 0.50 inches--about half an inch shorter and narrower than most other Pocket PC devices, which makes a big difference. And at just 4.23 ounces, it won't tear out the seam in your pocket, either." • OS: Pocket PC 2002 • Processor: Intel XScale PXA 250, 200 MHz • Display: Transflective type TFT color with LED backlight, 64K colors • Memory: 16MB Flash/64 MB RAM (46 MB user accessible) • Slots: SD/MMC slot • Battery: 900mAH, Lithium-Ion user swappable battery A high-resolution image can be found at <a href="http://www.pocketpctools.com/images/newipaqs/h1910.jpg">Pocket PC Tools.</a>

seatec

11-14-2002, 02:39 AM

and a pic of the H5450 instead of the H1910????

The pic in the link is of the H1910

Thanks for fixing it Jason!! :)

Foo Fighter

11-14-2002, 02:52 AM

My God. Can someone enlarge the picture from PocketPC Tools? I can't quite make out its sub-atomic structure.

mar2k

11-14-2002, 02:54 AM

200MHz XScale????? 8O :? :(

400MHz XScales can barely keep pace with the 206MHz StrongARMs, what is HP thinking? This thing may be better looking, but for the same price the new Dell will give you a 400MHz XScale, dual slots, 64MB RAM. Come on HP, at least clock that up to 300MHz. Sorry, this is pretty disappointing........

beyondallcom

11-14-2002, 02:54 AM

What puzzles me is the fact that the power button location and the looks of the bottom part of the device looks awfully similar to its competition.

shilmover

11-14-2002, 03:15 AM

Sorry. I will try to post the higher resolution ones. :twisted:

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 03:19 AM

OK, so in review, it's ugly, it's slow, it's got a weak (yet user removable) battery, and it's memory is limited...

Great job HP!

My God. Can someone enlarge the picture from PocketPC Tools? I can't quite make out its sub-atomic structure.

Yep, probably the only place that stupid, annoying image shrinking feature of IE6 ever came in handy.

Xaximus

11-14-2002, 03:24 AM

What a disappointment... particularly the 200MHz X-Scale; that's just unbelievable. Perhaps they're planning on selling them with Palm OS installed? Looks like Viewsonic and Dell are going to lead the pack as far as low-cost PocketPCs are concerned.

Fishie

11-14-2002, 03:28 AM

mscdex

11-14-2002, 03:31 AM

I agree with everyone else on this one, this is just plain dissapointing. Dell's low end models are much better than this.

And c'mon.... a 900mAh battery? I know it's removable and all, but that is a bad move in my point of view. Didn't all the previous ipaq lines have a 1300 or 1400 mAh battery built in??

BTW, the article in the link that Jason posted (cnet), mentions that the sleeves and sleds from the previous ipaq lines are incompatible with (at least) the low end ipaq model(s). Guess that means shelling out more money to get a new sleeve. :roll:

Get with the program HP, otherwise the competition will beat you in the low-end PPC battle.

Just my 2cents worth.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 03:32 AM

OK, so in review, it's ugly, it's slow, it's got a weak (yet user removable) battery, and it's memory is limited...
Well, let's just wait until we get more details as to the performance of this thing. For all we know, XScale runs OK at 200MHz but doesn't scale. If it has the performance equivalent of a 150MHz MIPS or something it might still be popular. However, it's gotta be cheap, else it won't sell compared to the Dell and the Viewsonic. If the consumer knows anything, it's to compare MHz speeds ;)

Problem - it ain't cheap. I think Compaq will have to cut the price on this almost immediately. I can't think of recommending this to anyone for $300 if the Viewsonic is the same price and has more of everything (and the same battery, to boot)...

--bdj

p.s. Jason - please change the picture :)

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 03:51 AM

BTW, the article in the link that Jason posted (cnet), mentions that the sleeves and sleds from the previous ipaq lines are incompatible with (at least) the low end ipaq model(s). Guess that means shelling out more money to get a new sleeve. :roll:

Well, we sort of knew that being it's so thin, but what I was disappointed about (at least in this respect) was that they made it the same shape as other iPaq's have been. Mark my words, this will lead to consumer confusion ("I have an iPaq, and this is an iPaq sleeve, and it looks like it will fit from the box")

Still looking for something worth praising here...

Paragon

11-14-2002, 04:03 AM

Well, we sort of knew that being it's so thin, but what I was disappointed about (at least in this respect) was that they made it the same shape as other iPaq's have been. Mark my words, this will lead to consumer confusion ("I have an iPaq, and this is an iPaq sleeve, and it looks like it will fit from the box")

Actually I think what is confusing at this point is that jason has the wrong picture up for the 1910 device. Watch by the time I hit submit it will be the right picture.

Dave

st63z

11-14-2002, 04:17 AM

OK, so to clarify for the forgetful among us, neither of the Dells nor the Viewsonic has a removable battery? I could've sworn the Dells do...

The CNet article also seems to imply that the 1910 maintains the same 3.8" backlit screen (by really cutting down the surrounding bezel size)? Pretty impressive for something shorter/narrower than the V35, I'd have to say.

And the optimist in me wants to believe CNet that the 200MHz XScale isn't proportionally slower than the 400MHz variant in most everyday tasks (for example, as clock increases, that old ARM instruction bottleneck might factor a bigger and bigger piece of the delay, causing overall performance not to scale?). So HP might've decided the incremental performance increase of the 300MHz isn't worth the shorter batt life?

But I agree with some of the criticisms. Limited ROM and usable RAM.. I hate it. Non-SDIO, etc...

Xyress

11-14-2002, 04:29 AM

The Dell does have a removable battery (with a promised high-end battery in the vicinity of 3400mAh that's supposed to last 25+ hours) ... the Viewsonic does not.

As for the screen size, this is just a guess, but I would imagine that from what I've read that it could be either 3.5" or 3.8" ... the point is that devices such as the Dell are 3.5", yet are still 5" long ... whereas the iPAQ 1910 is a full half inch shorter.

Personally, I think that it's a pretty attractive device - much better than any of the previous iPAQs - I've always thought they were the ugliest PocketPCs bar none.

cesarfong

11-14-2002, 04:30 AM

so what about the price? any idea?

fmcpherson

11-14-2002, 04:36 AM

I like the physical design of this, but the specifications really hurt. It's going to be a tough sell at $300.

Current 400 Mhz X-Scale processors seem to have comparable performance to the 206 Mhz StrongARMS. Right now I bet that there isn't that much performance difference between the 200 Mhz and 400 Mhz X-Scales. Until Windows CE is overhauled or the apps are optimized you aren't going to see the full affect of the X-Scale processors.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 04:39 AM

so what about the price? any idea?
As mentioned in the other thread, $300 seems to be the initial price.

BTW, the CNet article said they didn't discern a difference between a 200MHz XScale and a StrongARM. We'll see...

--bdj (300th post! woohoo! :D and congrats to st63z...)

st63z

11-14-2002, 05:01 AM

--bdj (300th post! woohoo! :D and congrats to st63z...)

Thanks! But you forgot to congrat Thomas.. I'm guessing a couple of days ago?

Or Foo.. I'm guessing back in the 70's...

(Uh oh, Foo's gonna pop in all hurt wondering why he's attacked for no reason again...)

st63z

11-14-2002, 05:08 AM

^ Never mind, seems Foo's only sub-500, thought he was in the thousands (must've confused him w/ Ed)...

jngold_me

11-14-2002, 05:18 AM

200 mhz X-scale? 64mb of ram of which only 48mb is accessible ( I know that the e740 has less accessible ram than it's stated 64mb most likely due to it's inclusion of WiFi software - what's the 1900's excuse)?

I think the 1900 is alot nicer looking than anything Toshiba has produced (I hate the boxy 300 and 700 series). I was seriously considering moving toward a device with better screen and which was lighter and smaller than my Jornada 568. I was willing to live with the "slight" real-world perfomance hits (except for video) of the X-scale 400 or 300 devices.

Jeez, 200mhz X-Scale? No SDIO (which means I can't leverage my home WiFi with a SD WiFi card - due next year?) Oh well! :(

Rirath

11-14-2002, 05:31 AM

Makes me all the happier about my soon to be Dell. :D

mookie123

11-14-2002, 05:38 AM

200 mhz X-scale? 64mb of ram of which only 48mb is accessible ( I know that the e740 has less accessible ram than it's stated 64mb most likely due to it's inclusion of WiFi software - what's the 1900's excuse)? (

It's the round corner of course. You can't possibly fit all 64 chunks of memory , you got to saw off some bits so it can fit the round corner. so voila...! :D

incidentally. I don't understand why every model don't just put on 400mHz. Aren't they cost exactly the same to make? Makes thing easier for customer to choose.

Duncan

11-14-2002, 05:49 AM

People will buy this because it is an iPAQ and because it looks good. The name iPAQ is now synonymous with 'Pocket PC' in the public's mind. Good looks in a PDA sell (so many Palm reviews have gone on about the looks). Whether it is better than competing Pocket PCs is irrelevant.

(Before anyone brings it up - I know Toshiba outdid HP/Compaq in the recent sales figures - BUT - the iPAQ had already saturated the market so to run Toshiba as close as they did shows they are still the dominant force in the Pocket PC market.)

I'm not saying I like the fact that iPAQs will sell simply because they are iPAQs - but it is true nonetheless!

The Dell Axim, on the other hand, may sell bucket loads (personally I'm sceptical) - but I've heard one disturbing report about the actual quality of the Dell devices already (from a prospective retailer)...

Rirath

11-14-2002, 05:56 AM

I'm not even going to flinch about the Dells until I get something more solid than whispered rumors from nameless faces.

Duncan

11-14-2002, 06:01 AM

I'm not even going to flinch about the Dells until I get something more solid than whispered rumors from nameless faces.

Indeed - but my point is that much is being invested in how great the Dell devices will be without much evidence - it needs to be remembered that Dell cut both ways in terms of quality!

Rirath

11-14-2002, 06:03 AM

I'm not a Dell fan, but they may just make me one. Or I suppose I'll slap myself for not sticking with my first reaction. So far, every spec and image has proven my knee-jerk anti-Dell reaction wrong though. All in all, it's one exciting time.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 06:24 AM

The Dell Axim, on the other hand, may sell bucket loads (personally I'm sceptical) - but I've heard one disturbing report about the actual quality of the Dell devices already (from a prospective retailer)...

What "prospective retailer"? Dell is it's own retailer, they sell direct and they aren't going to change that for the PDA market.

Duncan

11-14-2002, 06:38 AM

OK - scratch 'retailer' as a bad choice of word. Try 'showroom manager'. Dell has at least one showroom in London (probably more - I've only ever seen the one) - and the guy who runs it had less than nice things to say about the Axim (which, at that point, he wasn't sure if they were going to physically have any of...). No great mystery - didn't intend to imply any!!

mar2k

11-14-2002, 06:39 AM

HP is still trying to gouge us based on the iPaq name alone. This should be a $199 device, tops, if they are really gunning for the entry-level market.

No SDIO and if you want a cradle its going to cost EXTRA....lame....

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 07:06 AM

Thanks! But you forgot to congrat Thomas.. I'm guessing a couple of days ago?

Or Foo.. I'm guessing back in the 70's...

(Uh oh, Foo's gonna pop in all hurt wondering why he's attacked for no reason again...)

Well, thanks for thinking of me, but 300 was actually yesterday.

What can I say, when new device news comes out, I go a little crazy :wink:

Kati Compton

11-14-2002, 08:03 AM

OK, so in review, it's ugly, it's slow, it's got a weak (yet user removable) battery, and it's memory is limited...

I like how the top edge looks compared to the current iPaqs. I think it looks much sleeker. As for the rest, I agree.

And I really wish they'd just include a CF slot, although it's probably not reasonable in a device as small as this one is.

Pony99CA

11-14-2002, 10:39 AM

Not just the procesor
The rom is only 16mb and from the ram only 48 is useable wich leads me to think that part of the ram is deliberatly left out from users hands in order to fit the entire PPC2k2 OS on the system.
Now THAT is weak.
That 16 MB Flash ROM was one of the first things that I noticed. Why not put in 32MB ROM and 48 MB RAM? It adds up to the same amount. (There's a bit of confusion in RAM, though -- Jason said it had 48 MB RAM, but the specs posted said 64 MB with 46 MB accessible.)

One odd thing that I noticed is that the buttons are the same as my iPAQ 3870, except for the rightmost button. That appears to be a home button, whereas my iPAQ is labelled as iTask. That makes me wonder if they've left iTask out.

Steve

Pony99CA

11-14-2002, 10:53 AM

--bdj (300th post! woohoo! :D and congrats to st63z...)

Thanks! But you forgot to congrat Thomas.. I'm guessing a couple of days ago?

Yeah, but you're both still just Theorists, and you've been members slightly longer than I have! BWAHAHAHAHAHA :P

In 3-5 more posts, you'll be Thinkers, though. (Personally, I think "Theorist" actually sounds more intelligent than "Thinker", but Jason neglected to ask me. :lol:)

You may now stop patting yourselves on the back.... :twisted:

Steve (just jealous because nobody congratulated me :-))

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

11-14-2002, 11:09 AM

mscdex

11-14-2002, 12:39 PM

so what about the price? any idea?
The 400mhz version will be about $300, whereas the 300mhz version will be about $200 ($250-$50 rebate).

woa1

11-14-2002, 01:09 PM

Wow, you guys are a tough crowd! The HP 1910 has moved to the top of my list. Why? Size, Size, Size (Looks pretty good too :-). I moved from my HP545 back to a Palm V when the HP started giving me trouble and it would be hard to go back to something any bigger than Palm V. I looked at the Toshiba e310 but found it too long and also the lack of a serial cable sync option didn't help (Still on Win NT at work).
Regarding the MHz, what are you guys doing with these things?! :-)
For regular use (PIMs, Pocket Office, Voice Recorder), I would be surprised if you could really notice the difference. Even for Media Player use I would be surprised if there was much of a difference.
The things which would stop me from getting the HP are:
-Poor battery life: I could typically go a week with the HP545 without recharging based on my usage style, so I would need to get at least 3-4 days on the 1910.
-If the SD/MMC card slot truly doesn't support SDIO (which I somehow doubt. HP can't be that stupid!).
-Unless I can get of NT at work, lack of a serial synch option would not be good.

PC Mag here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,700768,00.asp just gave the HP an editor's choice over the Dell and the ViewSonic.

Well. just my two cents....

Xyress

11-14-2002, 02:02 PM

Nice spot, woa1 ... I think the HP does look pretty sharp, and if size and looks are high on your list, then it does seem like a pretty solid choice. Somewhat surprisingly, the writer of that article liked the screens in the following order:

- HP 1910
- Dell Axim
- Viewsonic

I would've guessed the other way around. Decent article, but what about the buttons?? I'm dying here!

Ed Hansberry

11-14-2002, 02:31 PM

Just my two cents on the 16MB ROM/48MB RAM comments - I don't think they are valid. The PPC 2002 spec required a 32MB ROM - the ROM image alone is 22MB before adding HP specific software like the HP Backup.

If they shoehorned this into 16MB and put some other apps in RAM - I'll pass and recommend others pass. It would be very unlikely that it would be upgradable to a future Pocket PC 200x version, just like it is highly unlikely that the 16MB ROM iPAQ 3600 will be upgradable.

This has to be a misprint or error on the part of the author.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 03:14 PM

Steve (just jealous because nobody congratulated me :-))
Eh, both you and Thomas zoomed by before I could get a word in. I managed to catch st63z's 300th post, and that's why I congratulated him. :D Belated congrats to you two...

Now, ontopic: the comments about the device looking sleek do have a point. For the longest time, the Palm V, Vx, and m505/515 units were severly overpriced, but people bought them because they looked sleek. So HPaq may not be dead-in-the-water here...

BTW, does anyone know what kind of cover this unit comes with? Is it going to be el cheapo slipcase, or something more substantial?

--bdj

Foo Fighter

11-14-2002, 03:47 PM

(Uh oh, Foo's gonna pop in all hurt wondering why he's attacked for no reason again...)

See...they're talking about me again! 8O

Now I'm hearing voices. What's that, God? You say I should pick up a knife and kill everyone at PPCthoughts? Oh but I shouldn't. That would be wrong....but if you insist...... :twisted:

BruceG

11-14-2002, 04:51 PM

I have been PDA-less for about a month now, and I have been eagerly awaiting the new devices. After reading about the H1910, however, I think it is a little too low-end for me, and I am gravitating toward the Dell Axim X5 (400 MHz). Even though there might not be much difference between running apps on a 200 MHz or 400 MHz device now, you may be sorry you didn't get the faster processor six or nine months from now. Someone told me you can never have too much memory, too fast a processor, or too much storage. As for trimness, I used to have a Palm Vx and it fell out of my pocket many times. When I went to an HP Jornada 548, I got a belt clip so I wouldn't have to worry about my PDA hitting the floor when I bent over.

Merlion

11-14-2002, 04:54 PM

I think they should use a higher capacity bty. I think most pple would rather have a slightly thicker device, or just a slight bulge where the bty is, to have a bty life that is at least up to par with current devices. It would still be a very tiny device.
This would be a good device (because of it's size) if it's priced at about $100-$150, considering the other soon-to-be-released devices. It could then win over potential PalmOS devices (budget-conscious) buyers.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 05:21 PM

I think they should use a higher capacity bty. I think most pple would rather have a slightly thicker device, or just a slight bulge where the bty is, to have a bty life that is at least up to par with current devices. It would still be a very tiny device.
To some extent this is splitting hairs, i.e., if they use a 900mah vs a 1000mah battery. If they were to use substantially larger, it wouldn't make sense.

Let's not rush to judgement on a 900mah battery. If a 200MHz XScale does anything well, it's to be very power-conservative :)

--bdj

SofaTater

11-14-2002, 05:34 PM

PC Mag here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,700768,00.asp just gave the HP an editor's choice over the Dell and the ViewSonic.

Hmmm. When I followed that link, the first thing I noticed is that there is a banner ad for Compaq Evo desktops on the top of the page and an ad for the HP Ipaq along the right side of the page. But all that paid advertising is just a coincidence, I'm sure, with the magazine awarding the HP machine its editors' choice...

van_mierlo

11-14-2002, 05:39 PM

Ok my take on these starter models :lol:

With HP, Dell, Viewsonic etc comming out with devices that are less powerfull then the units we "POWERUSERS" already have. This defenitly looks like the market is shifting from palm to ppc.
How many new names adopted the palm operating system this year? With this huge marketing in same price ppc as palm operating devices......where is this going?

The Power of microsoft???? :idea:

handheldplanet

11-14-2002, 06:48 PM

xbalance

11-14-2002, 07:52 PM

Since everyone has said everything I could have possibly thought to say, all I can say is how about them Sonics. Who would have thought they would be 6-2 to start the season.

This Ipaq is crap. The HP product manager should be fired and his desk shot.

Jason Dunn

11-14-2002, 07:58 PM

And c'mon.... a 900mAh battery? I know it's removable and all, but that is a bad move in my point of view. Didn't all the previous ipaq lines have a 1300 or 1400 mAh battery built in??

Nope - this is the same battery size as the 3650, and assuming they've gotten better at power management, this might be quite good on the battery.

pelucidor

11-14-2002, 08:27 PM

Just read the H1910 preview at PC Mag. Obviously written by someone new to PDAs who said 'ooh - pretty screen - recommended', without actually delving any deeper.

They completely missed the 16MB ROM issue, actually stated the PDA has 64MB RAM (like the other PPCs) without mentioning (or even knowing) it was only 48MB usable, and said THE 4 HOUR BATTERY LIFE is 'slightly less' than the (estimated) 10 hours for the Viewsonic V35. They did acknowledge it was slower than the Viewsonic and Dell, but who needs speed (or memory, or battery life) when you have a nice screen.

My worry is that as much of the PPC 2002 OS is stored in RAM on this device, if there is a hard reset does this mean the user (probably not a power-user at this price-range) has to reinstall half the OS every time? Also I thought Microsoft stated that PPCs require 32MB ROM to allow future upgradeability - does this mean that when (if?) a new PPC OS arrives that is tuned for XScale the H1910 won't be compatible?

The PC Magazine is the worst written preview yet - I said as much in my comments to them. The HP advertising on 3 sides of the review page must be coincidental...

jornadaholic

11-14-2002, 09:22 PM

its a good looking device just a real disapointment with the specs if it had the axim x 5s specs i would totally buy this
way to go HP u coulda blew the axim x5 outta the water but not with such crappy specs

DSAINMON

11-14-2002, 10:40 PM

I knew from the start that an inexpensive IPAQ sounded fishy. Damn, was I right!!

This is the weirdest PDA, specs-wise, ever!

200MHz Xscale- I didn't even know they made an Xscale that slow

900-1000mAh battery - Compared to the Dell's 1440mAh and even my old EM-500 1100mAh battery, that's pretty pathetic. Even with the low power xscale, its just sad.

16MB ROM/48MB RAM - WTF is with that?!?!?!?! :pukeface:

Yeah sure it looks nice, but I'm not buying it to stare at all day.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 11:00 PM

I think this whole thread can be boiled down to this...

Now that we know the Viewsonic does have an SDIO capable SD slot, can anyone point to one single advantage the 1910 has over the Viewsonic?

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:22 AM

^ Never mind, seems Foo's only sub-500, thought he was in the thousands (must've confused him w/ Ed)...

HOW?????? 8O :shocked!: :crazyeyes: THERE'S ONLY ONE FOO! (Where do you get the time Foo - I see you on SOOOOOOOoooo many Boards! :beer: :razzing: :way to go: :werenotworthy: :rainbow1:

Ed Hansberry

11-15-2002, 12:24 AM

(Where do you get the time Foo - I see you on SOOOOOOOoooo many Boards!

Foo has lots of spare time.... :drinking:

:wink:

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:26 AM

I knew from the start that an inexpensive IPAQ sounded fishy. Damn, was I right!!

This is the weirdest PDA, specs-wise, ever!

Darn right! What were they drinking at the time they cooked up the specs for this freak? :drinking: :microwave: 0X :morning:

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 12:28 AM

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:28 AM

(Where do you get the time Foo - I see you on SOOOOOOOoooo many Boards!

Foo has lots of spare time.... :drinking:

So do you Ed. :wink: Now that's the pot calling the kettle black! :grinning devil: :eek:

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:31 AM

(Where do you get the time Foo - I see you on SOOOOOOOoooo many Boards!

Foo has lots of spare time.... :drinking:

Well, he'd have to if he hangs out with the Ars Technica guys, their freaks :o

(have to say though, I've never understood how people who spend so much time using their computer do so well in the Seti@home rankings)

Cause they are always on????? How do you know Foo hangs out there? That's one of my old lurking boards - but I've not seen Foo there.

(Lots of people posting rapidly here BTW - always fun - a nearly real-time BB :P )

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 12:34 AM

So do you Ed. :wink: Now that's the pot calling the kettle black! :grinning devil: :eek:

Says the guy who racked up 338 posts in 4 and a half months :)

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 12:36 AM

Cause they are always on????? How do you know Foo hangs out there? That's one of my old lurking boards - but I've not seen Foo there.

(Lots of people posting rapidly here BTW - always fun - a nearly real-time BB :P )

Yeah, but I always thought Seti@home only did it's work when you weren't using your computer...

Anyway, he had mentioned it on wessalmon.com I think that's how I knew

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:42 AM

So do you Ed. :wink: Now that's the pot calling the kettle black! :grinning devil: :eek:

Says the guy who racked up 338 posts in 4 and a half months :)

Ummm - you aren’t terribly far away from me on that count from where I stand mr C22. :D And please – it’s 341. :wink:

Yeah, but I always thought Seti@home only did it's work when you weren't using your computer...

You can set it up in many different ways. The most common is that is still works at a lower priority while you are doing lightweight stuff (like typing and posting :wink:)

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 12:45 AM

Ummm - you aren’t terribly far away from me on that count from where I stand mr C22. :D And please – it’s 341. :wink:

Yes, but you see I had 5 posts here when PDABuzz closed down AND you have more post than I do now so as you can see it's a totally different thing 8)

Steven Cedrone

11-15-2002, 01:33 AM

Please steer this conversation back on topic...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

metafizx

11-15-2002, 01:49 AM

You guys can take your BRICKPAQS with enough features to pilot the space shuttle. I want PPC that can actually fit in my pocket. Ya know some people might possibly use these things to sync with outlook.

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 02:05 AM

How many new names adopted the palm operating system this year?

Nine.

Foo Fighter

11-15-2002, 02:11 AM

My ears are burning. Thank god it wasn't ear mites after all.

How do I find time to post so much? Well, lets just say that as I sit here toiling away at my workstation all day, I keep about...oh, say 10-20 browser windows open at one time.

Contrary to Ed's theory, I don't just sit around all day consuming alcohol. Though there are times I wished I could. :drinking:

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 02:20 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, one can never have too many choices. I think it all boils down to picking what's best for you. If it doesn't happen to be HP that does it, then go with someone who will. Might give them something to think about as well. Since the battery is removeable I really doubt that will be much of an issue as a spare can be inserted. I'm sure that there will also be high capacity versions available as well. What would be even better is if the battery had the same form factor as the 5000 series, only slimmer to be flush with the unit. The screen and size look to be the major selling point on this unit. The processor speed is something I think anyone would hardly notice unless they're playing video games, something I can't fathom - though I'm sure there are plenty out there who actually use their PDA for PIM tasks only. It's still a step up from Palms of the same price with built in MP3 ability and the like. The PC Mag reviewer mentioned that screen was excellent, that would be more important to most folks than the processor I'm sure. Simply stated, this may not be for you or me - but it is another good choice for someone who's need it will meet. Price should probably be lowered though, preferrably by 1/3. But on name alone, I'm sure it'll sell. Still think that Dell is the way to go though :twisted:

Foo Fighter

11-15-2002, 02:21 AM

I see you on SOOOOOOOoooo many Boards! :beer: :razzing: :way to go: :werenotworthy: :rainbow1:

The only boards I frequent, aside from this one (and I can't quite figure why I'm drawn here like a moth to a flame, since I have no vested interest in visiting), is PIC (just for laughs), Brighthand (for moments when I'm off my meds), and occasionally Ars Technica - mainly to watch people tear each other apart like a pack of cannibalistic wolves. You thought Palm vs. PPC was a flaming debate? You should see what goes on there. It will curl your stylus.

That's about it. But alas, the glory days at PDA Buzz are over. :(

FredPC

11-15-2002, 03:03 AM

You guys are looped. For people with familes and a budget who are not looking for another machine to run PERL on, this is a nice unit at a competitive price. I need something that won't tear my pockets. Can I borrow a pocket protector? mailx -s "Here's a clue" < getaclu.txt

Foo Fighter

11-15-2002, 03:10 AM

You guys are looped. For people with families and a budget [snip] this is a nice unit at a competitive price.

Not really. For the demographic you are referring to, $299 is still too costly. $100-$199 is more realistic, which means something in between Palm's Zire or Dell's low-end Axim. HP is still out of the ballpark.

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 03:29 AM

Please steer this conversation back on topic...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

Awwww, come on, off topic is so much more fun! :D

Not really. For the demographic you are referring to, $299 is still too costly. $100-$199 is more realistic, which means something in between Palm's Zire or Dell's low-end Axim. HP is still out of the ballpark.

Not only that, the main reason people are critical of this unit is because it stacks up so poorly in comparison to the Viewsonic which is at the same price point

I really don't think it's a demographic issue at all

Foo Fighter

11-15-2002, 03:52 AM

Not only that, the main reason people are critical of this unit is because it stacks up so poorly in comparison to the Viewsonic which is at the same price point

I really don't think it's a demographic issue at all

Right, but I was refuting Fred's claim that this product is for "families and budget conscience" consumers. For that particular segment of the PDA market, $299 is still too much money. But yes, I agree it does stack up rather poorly against comparably priced devices.

Viewsonic still looks like the one to beat, but Dell still leads on price. However, with such paltry specs, I bet HP built this device for an impending price war. They should have no problem under-cutting Dell. Watch out folks, we may be in for more surprises. HP could beat Dell to that $150 price point.

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 03:55 AM

Right, but I was refuting Fred's claim that this product is for "families and budget conscience" consumers. For that particular segment of the PDA market, $299 is still too much money. But yes, I agree it does stack up rather poorly against comparably priced devices.

Yeah, I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you I was saying that Fred's point was (nothing personal Fred) stupid.

Viewsonic still looks like the one to beat, but Dell still leads on price. However, with such paltry specs, I bet HP built this device for an impending price war. They should have no problem under-cutting Dell. Watch out folks, we may be in for more surprises. HP could beat Dell to that $150 price point.

We'll see, but I have to tell you, if the PC market is any indicator, HP doesn't have as many rabbits up it's sleeve as you may think and they've never managed to win a Price war with Dell.

mscdex

11-15-2002, 04:40 AM

roberto_torres

11-15-2002, 12:17 PM

200 Mhz!!!

Toshiba and Dell are going to eat HP assets in no time.

Jonathon Watkins

11-16-2002, 12:09 AM

Please steer this conversation back on topic...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

Awwww, come on, off topic is so much more fun! :D

Darn right! :D Steven , have you ever considered flying as cover on a X-wing mission to destroy a death-star? You’d be great! “Stay on Target, stay on Target…. AAAAAAGGHHhhhhh…..”

(Seriously – a gentle remainder every now and again is useful and appreciated).

The only boards I frequent, aside from this one (and I can't quite figure why I'm drawn here like a moth to a flame, since I have no vested interest in visiting), is PIC (just for laughs), Brighthand (for moments when I'm off my meds), and occasionally Ars Technica - mainly to watch people tear each other apart like a pack of cannibalistic wolves. You thought Palm vs. PPC was a flaming debate? You should see what goes on there. It will curl your stylus.

OK – I have seen you around at most of those. Good Ars quote BTW. Yes – it does get rather heated doesn’t it.

That's about it. But alas, the glory days at PDA Buzz are over.

Yes. But – we are here now and I for one am happy with my new home. Don’t look back.

this is a nice unit at a competitive price.

No and No. Sorry.

Steven Cedrone

11-16-2002, 12:20 AM

Kirkaiya

11-17-2002, 07:35 AM

I think that HP might have a reasonable shot with this device. I *do* think they'll have to end up rebating $25 or $50, to get the price down to $275 or $250.

Here's my reason for thinking this: This new low-end iPaq has the name "iPaq" (which for a lot of people is synonomous with "cool pocket pc"), it has a great screen (so we've heard), and it's short.

That is, it's about the same dimensions and weight as the viewsonic, but about the same length as a Palm V (more or less) - it's arguably the first "pocketable" PPC.

Personally, I already feel like I'm slumming, ordering the Viewsonic with only a 300 MHz processor, but I wanted the smaller size, and (foolishly) thought it was shipping in "mid november" (cough).

But - for the large number of people who have NO IDEA what speed their Palms run at (or PPCs for that matter), this might be fine.

I doubt you'll notice any lag launching Contacts/Tasks/Email/Calendar, or Pocket Word/Excel, and since most of the iPaq-carrying-corporate types I know don't really load anything else (and couldn't name the processor in the iPaq, much less tell you the MHz), I doubt the buyers of this model will care.

It'll be bought for it's claim to fame: Smallest PPC, and it's iPaq moniker.

I say, the more the Merrier - I'm still waiting to see what OEMs might manufacture devices based on the Samsung reference design for low-cost PPCs (and no, they won't all be grayscale - the original article states that the design supports either color or grayscale screens).

Anyway - I also want to point out that the Dell Axim, while it's not perfect and is chunky (IMHO), this is their 1st shot out the door. I'm more curious to see what their 2nd Quarter next year new model(s) might look like. Dell has plenty o cash to put into an assault on the PDA market, we'll see how they do.

Kirkaiya

11-17-2002, 07:36 AM

And hey, I'm trying to steer this beast back on topic, do I get a lollipop or something?

:wink:

Steven Cedrone

11-17-2002, 07:41 AM

And hey, I'm trying to steer this beast back on topic, do I get a lollipop or something?

:wink:

I'll see what I can do!!

Steve

Merlion

11-17-2002, 08:15 PM

And hey, I'm trying to steer this beast back on topic, do I get a lollipop or something?
:wink:
I'll see what I can do!!

Steve
Er .. Steve, you can forget about a lollipop for Kirkaiya, now that he had deviated the discussion to lollipop rewards. :roll: ;)

And since Kirkaiya brought up the topic (his fault, not mine ;)), more information about lollipops can be found here (candy-gift-ideas.net/lollipop_history.htm). :lol:

enemy2k2

11-17-2002, 08:35 PM

And since Kirkaiya brought up the topic (his fault, not mine ;)), more information about lollipops can be found here (candy-gift-ideas.net/lollipop_history.htm). :lol:

ROFL :lol: :!:

Jonathon Watkins

11-18-2002, 02:28 AM

Hey, HEY, you guys are hijacking the "Lets beat up on Foo" thread! (Could you please re-name this thread Steve :wink: ).

Going off-topic, I still think that HP/CPQ still haven't yet fully grasped what Dell's new baby really means. OR - it means that they do know and are trying to squeeze a bit more cash out of the old IPAQ name while they still can. I hope that Joe Public are smart enough to tell the difference between this IPAQ and the Dell and Viewsonic. I wonder how much commission they salesmen make on the IPAQs.......

Janak Parekh

11-18-2002, 04:02 AM

Going off-topic
lol! :lol:

I still think that HP/CPQ still haven't yet fully grasped what Dell's new baby really means. OR - it means that they do know and are trying to squeeze a bit more cash out of the old IPAQ name while they still can.
I think it's a cross between the latter and the 1910 being the "Palm V" of the Pocket PC's. I think the design looks really, really sleek - much more so than other PPC's, including the Viewsonic - and it may cater to an audience who is willing to pay some more $$ for said sleekness. Of course, I'll have to wait for it to appear in a store before I can finally conclude this, but that's my intuition.

--bdj

Pony99CA

11-18-2002, 11:04 AM

The iPAQ 1910 (and 5450) have been officially announced. See the HP Press Release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/).

Steve

Pony99CA

11-19-2002, 02:37 PM

One odd thing that I noticed is that the buttons are the same as my iPAQ 3870, except for the rightmost button. That appears to be a home button, whereas my iPAQ is labelled as iTask. That makes me wonder if they've left iTask out.
That was an unexpected observation... is iTask important to you?
Oops, I forgot I'd posted in this thread. (Apparently, topic update notifications still aren't working right. :-()

It's not that iTask itself is that important, but whether there's a task manager on the 1910 at all. Unless they came up with something cheaper, I expected iTask to be there. It may well still be, but I thought that the button change was interesting.

Steve

Pony99CA

11-19-2002, 04:02 PM

My worry is that as much of the PPC 2002 OS is stored in RAM on this device, if there is a hard reset does this mean the user (probably not a power-user at this price-range) has to reinstall half the OS every time?

Not "half", but some. It will be just like reinstalling applications to the end user, I think. The parts in RAM aren't really crucial to the core PDA functions, either.

Also I thought Microsoft stated that PPCs require 32MB ROM to allow future upgradeability - does this mean that when (if?) a new PPC OS arrives that is tuned for XScale the H1910 won't be compatible?

Maybe Pocket PC 2003/2004 will have Professional (part runs in RAM) and Premium (everything is in ROM) versions just like Pocket PC 2002 did. Yes, there might have to be two Professional versions -- one for 32 MB ROM machines and one for 16 MB ROM machines -- but maybe that would be up to the device maker. OEMs already have to update Microsoft's distributions to include their own applications in ROM, so the process shouldn't be too unfamiliar.

With 64 MB RAM in the 1910, you could use up to 32 MB RAM for the OS and still have 32 MB left for user use. Combining 32 MB RAM for the OS and the 16 MB ROM would allow using the same OS as the high-end iPAQs with 48 MB ROM.

Steve

PJE

11-21-2002, 01:31 AM

With 64 MB RAM in the 1910, you could use up to 32 MB RAM for the OS and still have 32 MB left for user use. Combining 32 MB RAM for the OS and the 16 MB ROM would allow using the same OS as the high-end iPAQs with 48 MB ROM.

Basically the 1910 can be thought of as a iPaq 3635 (32MB RAM, 16MB Flash) upgraded to 46MB of RAM with the PocketPC 2002 upgrade applied.

A lot of the extra applications such as the Windows Media player, Transcriber, Terminal etc... need to be loaded into this 46MB, so if you need these applications your memory will shrink! Also the Spell checker will never work with Pocket Word :? .

As the owner of a 3650 I don't see the memory upgrade (one of the main reasons for me to change) and the memory card slot being sufficient - even given the nice size. I'll probably end up with a Dell...

My 2c

PJE

enemy2k2

11-21-2002, 05:05 AM

Check out these pictures @:

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/1910/images/compDellvs1910stack.jpg

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/1910/images/1910Stylus.jpg

He's working on a review that should be out by the end of this week. Hmm, let's see, Dell Axim X5 + HP 1910 + HP 5450 = one busy dude!

Those pictures speak volumes to me, or rather volume saved :D That thing is TINY! I bet one day we'll be able to slip these things into the credit card sleeves in our wallets eh? :P

Merlion

11-21-2002, 02:31 PM

Those pictures speak volumes to me, or rather volume saved :D That thing is TINY! I bet one day we'll be able to slip these things into the credit card sleeves in our wallets eh? :P :D
Actually, I used to use a REX PCMCIA PDA (http://www.davespda.com/features/rex6000.htm) for over a yr in between my other PDAs. Its size was really liberating (it's exactly the size of a PC card), and it complemented my notebook computer very well. I even used to read ebooks with it when waiting in long lines or for people! Eventually, circumstances changed & my needs necessitated me switching back to full-sized PDAs.

There were also wristwatch size PDAs over the yrs & in this yr's Comdex, Fossil's showing their new wrist-worn Palm OS PDA. :)

A tiny screen is OK to eg., look at addresses, etc, but not quite OK for using or even just looking at spreadsheets, formatted docs, maps, etc., not to mention doing more demanding tasks. :)

Pony99CA

11-21-2002, 04:33 PM

Basically the 1910 can be thought of as a iPaq 3635 (32MB RAM, 16MB Flash) upgraded to 46MB of RAM with the PocketPC 2002 upgrade applied.

A lot of the extra applications such as the Windows Media player, Transcriber, Terminal etc... need to be loaded into this 46MB, so if you need these applications your memory will shrink! Also the Spell checker will never work with Pocket Word :? .

I thought the part of the 64 MB RAM that the operating system took included Media Player, Transcriber et al. If not, that would really be worse.

However, regarding the spell checker, why do you say that? Didn't you see my post with the link to the 1910 Quick Spec that said the spell checker was included? Was the Quick Spec wrong?

Steve

Ed Hansberry

11-21-2002, 04:44 PM

dstrauss

11-21-2002, 06:26 PM

I think there's a HUGE retail market that will eat this device up. The majority of PDA users are looking for the coolest/smallest device. I think the PDA market is VERY similar to the cell phone market. Sure, the extra features are nice, but most of us want a small phone with a good screen.

FORM FACTOR is what matters for many many many consumers. If this thing is smaller than the e310 and has a color screen, people, lots of people will buy it.

We'll all see in a few weeks.

Right on. Other than the poor decision to split the OS between ROM and RAM (although I'd bet most users won't notice, particularly if everything is included). It just seems like a waste of 16mb.

But the killers are SIZE SIZE SIZE and REPLACEABLE BATTERY! I've always dreamed of a Palm V size PPC, and this looks real close. Even the Toshiba 310 was too tall to be pocketable. I've owned over a dozen PDA's in both camps, and this one may be the ultimate winner. Particularly if I can carry a spare battery. And the price - with hgih end PPC's and Palms still hovering around $500, this thing is a winner on price.

As for the bashing by Dell proponents: besides the fact they are two entirely different target markets - just be satisfied with the brick you're going to be carrying. It's almost bigger than anything out there (other than a Compaq-sleeve combo). WHy not carrry a mini-notebook instead.

Fishie

11-21-2002, 09:22 PM

The low end Ipaq uses NAND Flash wich means the OS cannot execute from itand thats why part of the RAM is non user useable.
It also means that for all the optional elements of the OS(Media player, terminal services client etcetera) wich are included on the CD RAM will have to be used from the 46 megs that remain.
So in the end this is even worse then an upgraded 3670 becouse it effectively has less RAM to play with.
NAND Flash is cheaper then regular ROM, downside is that its purely for stocking data and the data stocked there cannot be executed from it so the core OS is stored there while it is being executed from the 18megs of RAM that is non user useable.
Pretty crap and cheap from Dell if ya ask me, especially at that price.

Pony99CA

11-22-2002, 03:06 PM

However, regarding the spell checker, why do you say that? Didn't you see my post with the link to the 1910 Quick Spec that said the spell checker was included? Was the Quick Spec wrong?

Don't make the assumption that the 1910 is going to be like the 3600 upgraded. I'd bet the spellchecker will work and that the 1910 will have the FULL Pocket PC 2002 feature set - including WAP support in PIE, which the 3600 upgrade image lacks.
Ummm, I did not make that assumption. In fact, I was trying to dispell that rumor, hence the reference to the Quick Spec that said the spell checker was included.

For those who missed that link in the new iPAQ announcement thread, here's the iPAQ 1910 Quick Spec (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/h1910quickspecs.pdf). Here is a quotation from the relevant section:

Applications on Device:
Powered by Microsoft Windows for Pocket PC 2002

Calendar, Contacts, Tasks, Voice Recorder, Notes, Pocket Word (with Spellchecker), Pocket Excel, Pocket Internet Explorer, Calculator, Solitaire, Inbox (with Spell Checker for email), File Explorer, VPN Client, Infrared Beaming, Clock, Align Screen, File Explorer, Memory, Volume control, Asset Viewer

So spellchecking is included in both Pocket Word and Inbox.

Steve

kagayaki1

11-26-2002, 07:39 PM

I've found one of the most frustrating pictures to find on the net is the 1910 v.s. the 5400 series iPAQs. Sure, it was great to get Dale's pic comparing the 1910 to the Dell, but for those of you who own iPAQs now, you might find this picture more useful. Courtesy the Gadgeteer:

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/images/comdex2002-43.jpg

(I'm providing the link to avoid burdening the Gadgeteer's servers without his permission)

-Jason