PowerOne Finance Calculator

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.infinitysw.com/products/poweronefinance.html">http://www.infinitysw.com/products/poweronefinance.html</a><br /><br />Infinity Softworks has released powerOne Finance for the Pocket PC and Windows desktop. This looks like one of the most powerful financial calculators for the Pocket PC, rivaling the functionality of the classic HP 12c. This version supports downloadable skins which can move the operators around to facilitate left handed users. It is $59.99 for one platform or $99.99 for a package with the Pocket PC and Windows desktop versions. It runs on all Pocket PC devices and uses about 750KB of storage.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021104-poweronefinance.jpg" />

[gliscameria]

So... 100$ for a financial calculator. 100$ for a 750K program?

This is the kind of program I would expect to be assigned to a sophmore year programming class... and I would expect half of the class to write it the night before it's due.

This just seems to be a prime example of why most poeple don't 'buy' ppc software. 100$ for a calculator, 50$ for a skin generator, 40$ for a modified taskbar? If it wasn't for the freeware and shareware developers, who generally write better apps than places such as powerone, I would have a paper weight.

The developers definitely deserve something for their efforts...and maybe charging $100 is a way to compensate for piracy.... but this seems whorish, beating up on the poeple that actually BUY software?

This is defintely one MAJOR CON to having a ppc. Software is so expensive, this alone would have turned me off the ppc scene if I would have known about it before buying one.

I still do most WORK (physics major) on an old 8mb palm.

Maybe I'm missing out on something.

[Ed Hansberry]

Maybe I'm missing out on something.
Yup. $100 includes the Windows Desktop and Palm versions as well as the PPC version.
This is also for the business user. I paid $89 for my HP 17BII a few years ago. I would never give up the tactile feel of the keys on my HP, but function wise, this looks like it could replace my HP, and for $60 you can load it on your PC, change the buttons around with the skin and leave your calculator behind.

[mookie123]

This is definitely PT barnum executive edition.

What's so hard about using pocket excel to calculate whatever they are calculating like any other normal people?

at $100 bucks I would expect it has the capability of Mathematica or Maple instead of beep beep dinky calculator.

[Ed Hansberry]

This is definitely PT barnum executive edition.

What's so hard about using pocket excel to calculate whatever they are calculating like any other normal people?

at $100 bucks I would expect it has the capability of Mathematica or Maple instead of beep beep dinky calculator.

If you guys don't like the app that is fine. But you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. Getting Excel to do compound interest calculations with no payment information is a feat in itself, something a financial calculator can do it its sleep. Getting Excel to tell you the interest and principal portions for payments #38-41 in a 360 payment loan requires setting up a mondo spreadsheet or a series of complex formulas with embedded formulas.

And doing all of that with a SIP instead of a dedicated keypad with a program that has "cells" instead of a stack and a formula logic that requires algebraic notation rather than Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is enough to drive anyone that does this day to day absolutely INSANE! :evil:

[TMAN]

I used their online demo for about 5 minutes and then made my purchase. This is definately for the business user. The things that got me were the Statistical functions and the Solver. And, the forms in this application look pretty nice. I am digging the dedicated keypad for forms entry.

This just replaced OmniSolve, which I have been using for a couple of years now.

I wish I had this application when I was going through my Six Sigma Certification.

[TMAN]

If you guys don't like the app that is fine. But you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. Getting Excel to do compound interest calculations with no payment information is a feat in itself, something a financial calculator can do it its sleep. Getting Excel to tell you the interest and principal portions for payments #38-41 in a 360 payment loan requires setting up a mondo spreadsheet or a series of complex formulas with embedded formulas.

And doing all of that with a SIP instead of a dedicated keypad with a program that has "cells" instead of a stack and a formula logic that requires algebraic notation rather than Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is enough to drive anyone that does this day to day absolutely INSANE! :evil:

I couldn't agree more.

[mookie123]

If you guys don't like the app that is fine. But you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. Getting Excel to do compound interest calculations with no payment information is a feat in itself, something a financial calculator can do it its sleep. Getting Excel to tell you the interest and principal portions for payments #38-41 in a 360 payment loan requires setting up a mondo spreadsheet or a series of complex formulas with embedded formulas.

And doing all of that with a SIP instead of a dedicated keypad with a program that has "cells" instead of a stack and a formula logic that requires algebraic notation rather than Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is enough to drive anyone that does this day to day absolutely INSANE! :evil:

Something like these built in formulas? they involve clicking on the formula and punching the 5 or 6 numbers. Definitely easier than clicking a virtual calculator numeric pad simulating 12 digit LCD. Ya can make your own form and save it in spread sheet. (imagine that :roll: )

FV (rate, nper, pmt, pv, type) -- Returns the future value of an investment.

PMT (rate, nper, pv, fv, type) -- Returns the periodic payment for an annuity.

RATE (nper, pmt, pv, fv, type, guess) -- Returns the interest rate per period of an annuity.


list of built in formulas in P excel
http://casio.monacocorp.co.nz/cassiopeia/eseries/e115/pocketexcelfunctions.htm

[Ed Hansberry]

Getting Excel to do compound interest calculations with no payment information is a feat in itself, something a financial calculator can do it its sleep.

Something like these built in formula? they involve clicking on the formula and punching the 5 or 6 numbers. Definitely easier than clicking a virtual calculator numeric pad simulating 12 digit LCD.

FV (rate, nper, pmt, pv, type) -- Returns the future value of an investment.

PMT (rate, nper, pv, fv, type) -- Returns the periodic payment for an annuity.

RATE (nper, pmt, pv, fv, type, guess) -- Returns the interest rate per period of an annuity.
What did I say? What did I say? No payment information. PMT is not an optional parameter. Do a basic interest calcuation that compounds 12 times a year with no payments for 54 months and tell me the future value in Excel.

[handheldplanet]

Ed's right, there's no easy way to get Excel to do amortizations or tell you the principal vs. interest at any specific period. Sure, like you mentioned, it can do SIMPLE TVM calculations easily.

I've been using Landware's OmniSolve since July of '00 and it's worked great for me.

FINANCIAL CALCULATORS RULE! :rock on dude!:

[Wiggin]

Ed my man, take a breath, count to 5, and relax! :rainbowafro:

There's no need to take someone's opinion as a personal attack, OR, to attack someone who has a differing point of view. Telling someone that they have "NO FREAKING CLUE" (which I quote...accent added though! :o ) just because they do not agree with you is a bit out of line for a site admin, dontyathink??

As an Excel geek for many years, I can confirm that it is true - you CAN do a majority of the financial calculations which used to be the sole domain of the HP calculator world. So, let the individual decide if $100 is well spent buying sw versus using other tools that are a tad bit less costly, shall we?

Keep up the good work, and keep those emotions in check :beer:

[Ed Hansberry]

FINANCIAL CALCULATORS RULE! :rock on dude!:

Excel is a great tool for many thing, but it is overused. If you need to do three calcs like this a year, yeah, use Excel. But if you need to do 3 of these every hour and every one of them has different scenarios and kinks in the deal, financial calculators rule, plain and simple. The right tool for the right job.

[mookie123]

*bang head*

okay you get away easy. Library is closed i can't pull out finance text book trying to figure out all these business definitions being used. hhhmmpft...!

but I swear they look to me like simple linear equation that excel can jugle without sweat.

[Ed Hansberry]

*bang head*

okay you get away easy. Library is closed i can't pull out finance text book trying to figure out all these business definitions being used. hhhmmpft...!

but I swear they look to me like simple linear equation that excel can jugle without sweat.
That is whats funny about my example. It is one of the easier ones to accomplish with a simple calculator that can raise numbers to a power, but there is no simple formula for it. :?

That said, even if there was, you start with a blank spreadsheet and I'll grab my HP 17BII and I'll clean the floor with you and Excel in both speed and accuracy. :wink: ESPECIALLY when it comes to solving for i%, which Excel can't do unless you set up a solver or goal seek scenario, neither of which Pocket Excel is capable of.

[handheldplanet]

There are linear equations for calculating problems like this - they're the manual ones that take forever to do by hand &lt;flashback to Finance 101 days>. Excel, is powerful and can do quite a bit, but there's more to it than that.

Again, I have to agree with Ed; I am a TVM JUNKY. I know, it sounds wierd, but I love it! I "run the numbers" on financial investments involving interest at least 10 times a day. An easy to use interface and quick and accurate reporting make a good calculator like this worth my $$$.

Will it replace my OmniSolve? Only time will tell.

[Ed Hansberry]

Well, I installed it on my iPAQ to the storage card and I get:
Library Error
The finance library was not found. blah blah blah

Of course, now I can't do a simple TVM with my iPAQ either. :lol: Anyone else with this glitch?

[kaps]

Flow Simulations has a free financial/scientific calculator at:

http://www.calculator.org/

I've used it for years,

Karl :lol:

[mookie123]

One last post about alternate cheaper software.

Hah! (it even got more built in formula for finance) http://www.byedesign.freeserve.co.uk/
http://www.byedesign.freeserve.co.uk/function.htm

Ok. that's it from me before I need to look up how all those equations are derived. And I still think $99 is outragous since I only spend $150 for Mathematica.

I want TI-89 emulator dammit. Now That's a real toy.

[Rob Alexander]

I have to agree with those who think this is seriously overpriced. Landware's Omnisolve does everything anyone here has mentioned for half the price and others have even mentioned free alternatives. I agree with Ed about the value of financial calculators versus Excel (though I have no idea why he's being so 'intense' :agrue: about it), but there are other financial calculators out there that don't cost $59. I'll stick with Omnisolve, thanks. :drinking:

[JTWise]

Have to put my vote in for pocket12C from Lygea Software. It is what it claims to be - a PPC version of an HP 12c. Works great for all the calcs that I normally need. Check it out at http://www.lygea.com

The two greatest things about this software are 1) speed (faster than a HP12c) and 2) Price. Come on, give me a break - is only $12.99 !!!

[TMAN]

Once again this has turned into a silly debate about which is better. This app is not limited to Financial calculations by any means. Try the online demo. It is very useful.

Until today I was an OmniSolve user (since the HP 620LX days). I found that OmniSolve was adequate but when it came to doing statistical functions, it did nothing for me.

Try calculating the Standard Deviation, X Bar, R Bar and other statistical information of a data set using One Variable, Linear, Natural Log, Exponential, or Power Methods with Pocket Excel. I know you could do the One Variable Method in P. Excel but it is a pain in the a$$. I don't know all of the functions in Excel and I sure don't want to have to carry a reference manual around either. This app would have been very useful in my Six Sigma Certification process. I had to bring in my HP 48GX to do what my Pocket PC could not.

One other nice feature this application has is the ability to use templates.
http://www.infinitysw.com/templates/index.html

They have templates for a ton of things. These are templates that can be "traded" among their user base. Take a look at the Math and Science category. They have templates from Algebra to Thermodynamics (Themogoddamics as it was called a the Colorado School of Mines).

I asked myself, is it worth the $60 for the Pocket PC version? The answer is yes if it replaces my HP 48GX, OmniSolve, HP 48GX Emulator, and Pocket Excel.

[Pony99CA]

So... 100$ for a financial calculator. 100$ for a 750K program?

The Pocket PC version is $60, not $100.

That said, I too agree $60 seems like too much. Of course, everybody has their own cost justification.


This is the kind of program I would expect to be assigned to a sophmore year programming class... and I would expect half of the class to write it the night before it's due.

Are computer science classes now writing rich UI programs? They weren't when I got my BS and MS (partly because GUIs weren't available :-)). But I'd still find it hard to believe that this would be a sophomore class.


This just seems to be a prime example of why most poeple don't 'buy' ppc software. 100$ for a calculator, 50$ for a skin generator, 40$ for a modified taskbar? If it wasn't for the freeware and shareware developers, who generally write better apps than places such as powerone, I would have a paper weight.

This is defintely one MAJOR CON to having a ppc. Software is so expensive, this alone would have turned me off the ppc scene if I would have known about it before buying one.

Yes, there is some expensive software out there, but there's also a lot of reasonably priced software. Look at "Snails" for $11-13, for example, for a fun game. And, as you said, there's a lot of great freeware out there, too.

Why complain about high prices when you can get so much for free? If you really need something, the price is probably worth it. If you just want something because it would be cool to have, but don't want to pay for it, I guess that's too bad.


I still do most WORK (physics major) on an old 8mb palm.

A Palm user? Now I get it.... :lol:

Steve

[Pony99CA]

If you guys don't like the app that is fine. But you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. Getting Excel to do compound interest calculations with no payment information is a feat in itself, something a financial calculator can do it its sleep. Getting Excel to tell you the interest and principal portions for payments #38-41 in a 360 payment loan requires setting up a mondo spreadsheet or a series of complex formulas with embedded formulas.

I'm not sure what the problem is with payments #38-41 on a standard mortgage. I'd think a spreadsheet would be great for this. You'd basically have a 360-row sheet doing an amortization, then look at rows 38-41.

You might need a couple of rows to calculate the payment from the present value/interest/number of payments, but not much more. What am I missing?


And doing all of that with a SIP instead of a dedicated keypad with a program that has "cells" instead of a stack and a formula logic that requires algebraic notation rather than Reverse Polish Notation (RPN) is enough to drive anyone that does this day to day absolutely INSANE! :evil:
You would be crazy if you tried to create that spreadsheet on a Pocket PC. But that's you, not me. :-D I'd set the spreadsheet up on my PC and sync it over to my Pocket PC.

As for RPN vs. algebraic, it's mostly a matter of taste. I've used both (an HP-67 and a TI-59 from way back) and would almost always choose using algebraic notation where I could enter the formulae as written. Yes, using algebraic notaton might take a few more keystrokes, but not having to translate from algebraic to RPN in my head is worth it, I think.

I'm not saying financial calculators aren't worth it; I was a computer science and math major, not a finance major, so finance isn't really my domain.

Steve

[Ed Hansberry]

I'm not sure what the problem is with payments #38-41 on a standard mortgage. I'd think a spreadsheet would be great for this. You'd basically have a 360-row sheet doing an amortization, then look at rows 38-41.

You might need a couple of rows to calculate the payment from the present value/interest/number of payments, but not much more. What am I missing?
That with a good financial calculator, I could have the answer before you could get your spreadsheet columns and variables defined.

You would be crazy if you tried to create that spreadsheet on a Pocket PC. But that's you, not me. :-D I'd set the spreadsheet up on my PC and sync it over to my Pocket PC.
Sort of misses the whole point doesn't it? If we took that approach to everything, why bother with a Pocket PC. just use a PC, except you can't use your PC in the field everywhere you go. Who wants to go to a clients office and say "excuse me, let me boot up my machine and fire up excel to answer your question" when all that is needed is a good financial calculator. :roll:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

This is highly specialized software and in general ANYTHING that is keenly specialized comes with a price. The functionality is obviously overkill for the majority of people in general. So yeah, it would be too expensive if you're NOT looking to utilize it to its fullest extent.

Now it's one thing to say, "this is too expensive for me" but it's entirely another thing to slam the price and then say that Excel can easily do this or a sophomore CS class can program this when you're not even fully informed on what you're saying an Excel spreadsheet can do or bunch of students can program.

I don't think either Ed or TMAN are trying to argue that everyone should see the value of this calculator and buy it. This is not about right or wrong. I think they're just trying to show that its cost does justify its value when used in the specific ways it was intended to be used.

[Ed Hansberry]

I don't think either Ed or TMAN are trying to argue that everyone should see the value of this calculator and buy it. Neither are trying to argue right or wrong. I think they're just trying to show that its cost does justify its value when used in the specific ways it was intended to be used.

Exactly. Being highly specialized, it is going to sell in low low volumes compared to something like Pocket Informant or ListPro and selling it at $19.99 makes no sense. This is like realator software or Pocket CAD. Insane prices for me but totally worth it for someone in that line of work.

[MovilPRO]

I m a 19BII fan, and I like to have this now, but...

I m going to buy one if they publish here a 30% minimum reduced price for the Pocketpcthoughts.com visitors!!!!!

Yes!, this is what all us want!!!

:P (I sent them an email with this thought...) asking for a promotional code only for all us...

[Pony99CA]

I'm not sure what the problem is with payments #38-41 on a standard mortgage. I'd think a spreadsheet would be great for this. You'd basically have a 360-row sheet doing an amortization, then look at rows 38-41.

You might need a couple of rows to calculate the payment from the present value/interest/number of payments, but not much more. What am I missing?
That with a good financial calculator, I could have the answer before you could get your spreadsheet columns and variables defined.

You're assuming that I didn't already have such a spreadsheet. I was assuming that I've already programmed that spreadsheet (I went into detail above to show that it didn't seem very difficult), and that all I had to do is enter the numbers into it.

I would think you could plug a few numbers into Excel almost as quickly as you could on a calculator, and with the formulae and logic already in the Excel sheet, you wouldn't need to hit any operator keys.

Of course, if you couldn't use a standard spreadsheet, and had to customize the sheet for each situation other than starting conditions, using a calculator would probably be much faster. If you could use a standard sheet, I bet Excel would be close, if not quicker.

That's why I asked what I was missing. Are the situations fairly standard, with only a few numbers being different, or are they wildly unique? I was not disputing that a calculator, which is already programmed to do financial calculations, would be faster than creating a spreadsheet. To argue that is comparing apples to oranges.

You would be crazy if you tried to create that spreadsheet on a Pocket PC. But that's you, not me. :-D I'd set the spreadsheet up on my PC and sync it over to my Pocket PC.
Sort of misses the whole point doesn't it? If we took that approach to everything, why bother with a Pocket PC. just use a PC, except you can't use your PC in the field everywhere you go. Who wants to go to a clients office and say "excuse me, let me boot up my machine and fire up excel to answer your question" when all that is needed is a good financial calculator. :roll:
We need a :sigh: icon. :lol: I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough, so let me try again.

If I had to do this over and over, I'd create a spreadsheet on my laptop in my office, synchronize to my Pocket PC, and only take the Pocket PC to the client.

Of course, this relies on the above assumptions of a standard spreadsheet that can fit most circumstances.

Steve

[Ed Hansberry]

The situations are rarely identical unless you are a mortgage loan officer. Your clients start asking about tax implicatoins on selling an item now vs after the year is over, which means more depreciation dedicutions, interest deductions between now and the end of the year, a basis that is changed between now and then, etc.

Financial calculators do so much more than loan amortization. that is a small part of what they do. I mean real financial calculators, not those cheap $15 TIs you bought for that one mandatory accounting class.