Can a Pocket PC Save You the Need to Carry an MP3 Player?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/products/story/0,23008,3401112,00.html">http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/products/story/0,23008,3401112,00.html</a><br /><br />I've been using my Pocket PC for a music player for nearly three years now. Worth its weight in gold for me when on long plane trips. Tech TV's Hahn Choi took a look at the iPAQ 3900, Toshiba e740 and Sony Clie NR70V to see how they stacked up against each other for their music capabilities. Source: Foo Fighter<br /><br />A few comments from the article:<br />• A PDA's low-end will never wow you, but the iPaq did produce a more pronounced bass than the Sony CLIE.<br />• The e740 produced the best balance among the ranges.<br />• The iPaq and e740 had a much higher maximum volume than the CLIE.<br />• Sony requires MP3 files be stored in a specific directory on the Memory Stick. Pocket PC automatically searches out all supported files.<br />• Both Pocket PC devices offer way more storage, with the e740 supporting both Secure Digital (SD) and CompactFlash (CF). SD media is currently available in sizes up to 512MB, while CF media is currently available up to 1GB. The iPaq can add up to 5GB with the optional PC Card expansion pack and a Toshiba PC Card storage drive. The CLIE's Memory Stick currently maxes out at 128MB.

[vincentsiaw]

i'm ud=sing ipaq 3900 to play WMA file in my car stereo everyday, put it in 512 mb sd card, but i do notice that WMA file produce better output than the MP3 format in my ipaq, i dont know why...

[dma1965]

My iPaq plays WMA encoded files which are as rich as I could ever want and lets me do about a thousand other things when I am not playing music. I was given a standalone MP3 player and gave it away. I see no need whatsoever to use a standalone player, nor do I see any reason to play MP3's at double the size of a WMA. If I download MP3's I convert them to WMA just for the decreased size, and because Windows Media Player on the iPaq just plays them much more reliably. 8) :rock on dude!:

[jet8810]

yea, PDAs make OK mp3 players, but I have a 13 gb MP3 collection, so its a no go for me :). Instead I purchased the Archos Recorder, but have my 40 top songs on my e740 for that occasional urge during everyday use.

[Anthony Caruana]

Not sure what MP3 players cost in the US or Europe but in Australia the cost differential between an MP3 player and a low end PDA (like Toshiba e310 or iPAQ 3850) is not that great.

Given the total functionality of the PPC (ebook reader, music player, PIM, games, etc) I'd recommend a PPC over a MP3 player. I'm not sure of the sound quality difference but my iPAQ 3850 is "good enough" for listening to a few songs on the commute to work or when I'm out for a walk or when Im trying to drown out the sound of my kid ;-)

[alandashby]

I use my Pocket Pc as an mp3 player nearly every day at some point. It does not hold as much as say an iPod does, but I dont need that much music with me anyway.

I say it works really well.

[Mr. Anonymous]

I used to use my Jornada 568 as an music player while I rode the bus. It worked really well, but there's only so much music you can squeeze onto a 256 CF card.

Since then I took a new job and can listen to music all day long. Enter the 20 gb iPod :) The PocketPC does a pretty good job of music playback, but you just can't beat a hard drived based MP3 player for storing tons of music and long playback times.

[heov]

• Sony requires MP3 files be stored in a specific directory on the Memory Stick. Pocket PC automatically searches out all supported files.


PPCs have to have MP3s in the My Documents folder, don't they (either storage or RAM, but who's going to store MP3s in RAM if they want to use it as a real mp3 player?)?

[Dermot81]

Erm...

Firstly, the majority of people don't listen to mp3s on their desktop using windows media player, they generally use winamp. So, its unfair to limit the mp3 client on the pocket pc to just windows media player. I use PDivx/GS player to play my mp3s on my ipaq 3900, and between the compaq built in treble/bass controls and the equalizers built into the mp3 clients, I can get a final audio stream coming out of my pda a lot more rich and clear than that of my, now useless, mp3 player.

Secondly, the beauty of having an ipaq to play mp3s over having an mp3 player, is the freedom of pocket pc os at your disposal. My college has a wireless network set up, and at home I have my own access point set up, so I have a nearly unlimited amount of disk space for my mp3s. And by unlimited, I mean UNLIMITED. I have all my suitemates' mp3 drives being shared on the network, giving me a huge, huge, huge playlist :)

Will I ever go back to using a regular mp3 player?
Definately not.

[TMAN]

• Sony requires MP3 files be stored in a specific directory on the Memory Stick. Pocket PC automatically searches out all supported files.


PPCs have to have MP3s in the My Documents folder, don't they (either storage or RAM, but who's going to store MP3s in RAM if they want to use it as a real mp3 player?)?

No. I have a My Music folder on the root of my 1GB Lexar CF Card.

[techie]

I have always thought that my MD was the bees knees on portable music. Good quality, 20 hrs on 2xAA, very small.

Byt a PPC with multi-GB storage is making me think twice.

BUT

- battery life with a an IBM CF HDD? Sure wont last a long flight.
- Can you wear a PPC in your pocket while running on the treadmill? (think: IPAQ with a backpack for the CF = a brick)

We're getting close, but the MD still wins out. Esp with the new 4CDs onto 1 MD.

Cheers.
Techie.

[Len]

I would say that my iPaq makes for a "serviceable" player.

The sound is perfectly fine, especially with good headphones and the ability to tweak the preamp of equalizer settings in withMP3. WMP does not cut it, IMO.

My wife is now using my Nomad II player. I definitely miss using it, but would not like having to trudge a second piece of hardware on my commute for tunes. The part I miss most from the Nomad II is the ability to control player functions with a remote control unit. With the iPaq, when I want to skip to the next track, pause, or adjust volume, I have to take the unit out of my pocket or briefcase, open the cover, and get to one of the buttons that I mapped the control to.

If someone could develop a remote control for pocket PC's (especially the iPaq), then the PPC would be a "great" MP3 player. But, convenience-wise, MP3 players are waaay better than PPC's.

Len

[yvilla]

If someone could develop a remote control for pocket PC's (especially the iPaq), then the PPC would be a "great" MP3 player. But, convenience-wise, MP3 players are waaay better than PPC's.
Len

I can't believe it: There is actually something that us poor e550G owners have in the way of accessories that the Ipaquers don't. :P

[yvilla]

More seriously, the remote control/headphones unit made for various Toshibas really is wonderful for using the PPC as an MP3 player.

[Timothy Rapson]

I think PPC 2000 required music to be in the right folder but not so for 2002?


I used my mono Ipaq for music, but with a 128 meg card I could only hold a couple of CDs worth of music beside my regular daily use files (Bibles, books, my own writing and a few applications.)

That was not enough space. I didn't care to listen to the same music over and over, and did not want to spend time each night switching the music. I don't think I will try to use a PDA for music again until I can get a $100 one full gigabyte memory card for a realistic size juke box.

But, it will get there. The Ipaq had a nice loud speaker. I like the location of the new 3800 series speakers as they would allow me to listen directly from the speaker without earphones with it in my front shirt pocket even better than my 3135.

But, I doubt any model out this year will play that music for 20 hours on a charge like my 3135. Maybe next years low power X-Scales with OLED screens and swapable 3500 Mha batteries will. You suppose 1 gig Flash Cards will go for $100 by then?

[Janak Parekh]

But, I doubt any model out this year will play that music for 20 hours on a charge like my 3135. Maybe next years low power X-Scales with OLED screens and swapable 3500 Mha batteries will. You suppose 1 gig Flash Cards will go for $100 by then?
Hm? Most new iPaqs have far superior battery life than the old ones, even the mono units, so long as you shut off the screen.

In any case, IMHO the 1GB flash will start dropping like a stone within the next 12-18 months.

--bdj

[Take1]

The newer iPAQs (38xx and on) sound FANTASTIC -- incredible bass response and loudness. I don't think you can do better in terms of fidelity and loudness than iPAQ right now. My NR-70 does decent sound, but is weak in volume and really doesn't have the richness of my iPAQ 3835. You'd think Sony would have made it a priority to kick everyone's butt in PDA audio volume/quality especially that of Compaq; a computer maker and not a stereo manufacturer. Don't need an .mp3 player if you have an NR series or iPAQ unless you want to carry several gigs of songs with you.

[Jonathon Watkins]

My iPaq plays WMA encoded files which are as rich as I could ever want and lets me do about a thousand other things when I am not playing music. I was given a standalone MP3 player and gave it away. I see no need whatsoever to use a standalone player, nor do I see any reason to play MP3's at double the size of a WMA. If I download MP3's I convert them to WMA just for the decreased size, and because Windows Media Player on the iPaq just plays them much more reliably. 8) :rock on dude!:

If you use MP3 Pro encosing then the files size is smaller than WMA encoded files. A 64kb encoded file with MP3 Pro sounds like a 128kb encoding - i.e. the same sound for half the size. MP3 Pro uses many of the same techniques used to create the WMA codec.

[roberto_torres]

I know this is a PPC site (heck I am a PPC user not Palm), but please be fair with the competing platform. There were advantages the Clie had over PPC mentioned in the article. And the article didn't included the new OS 5 Tungsten (TI omap ARM processor with DSP) and Clie (Xscale) wich have better multimedia.

bellow are the parts of the article not mentioned:


Palm testing notes



The CLIE reproduces the higher range more clearly.
The CLIE supports MP3s with bitrates up to 256 Kbps. Pocket PC supports only 192 Kbps, though higher bitrates may work under "unsupported mode."
A wired remote makes it easier to control music on the go: Throw the CLIE in a bag or pocket and control the volume or skip tracks with ease.
[/quote]

[batsai]

I love my iPAQ 3955; it's definitely the best sounding PDA I've ever used. Prior to my iPAQ however, I used a Toshiba e310 (probably the worst sounding PDA I've ever used- not bad, just not great), a Sony Clie N760C (terrible dust problems) and a Clie T615C (great handheld, but awful battery life) with Sony's MP3 adaptor.

IMHO, I believe the Sony models do offer better convenience because of the remote control- just enable background play and you don't even have to turn the unit on- just press the play button on the remote and you're good to go. On the other hand, they don't play WMA's, so you can't squeeze as much music onto a card as you could otherwise. (I don't care for the sound of MP3's encoded at 64 kb/s as opposed to WMA files which sound fantastic when encoded at the same bitrate.) Also, the built in Audio Player has no playlist functionality. The only way to change the order of the tunes on your memory stick is to delete them and copy them over in the order you want to hear them. This may not matter to some people, but to me it was a major drag (no pun intended :) )

I wish my iPAQ had a jog dial- that would help make up for the lack of a remote control, but when considering factors such as bass response, sound quality, and raw power, the iPAQ rules :D

[Ed Hansberry]

• Sony requires MP3 files be stored in a specific directory on the Memory Stick. Pocket PC automatically searches out all supported files.


PPCs have to have MP3s in the My Documents folder, don't they (either storage or RAM, but who's going to store MP3s in RAM if they want to use it as a real mp3 player?)?
That was the case with the original Pocket PC 2000 devices. SP1 for Pocket PC 2000 fixed that. I keep my files in a \music\ folder outside of My Documents so apps like Word and Excel don't scan them when looking for their files.

[Ed Hansberry]

I know this is a PPC site (heck I am a PPC user not Palm), but please be fair with the competing platform. There were advantages the Clie had over PPC mentioned in the article. And the article didn't included the new OS 5 Tungsten (TI omap ARM processor with DSP) and Clie (Xscale) wich have better multimedia.

bellow are the parts of the article not mentioned:
I quoted what was dealing with Pocket PCs, and how do you figure OS5 devices have better multimedia? At best, they have caught up to what Pocket PCs have had since the iPAQ launched in June 2000.

As for tungsten, try loading an MP3 on it and tell me how it sounds. (hint: first you have to find an MP3 player for it. :roll: )

[dhpss]

Don't forget, the headset you use will make a very big difference in sound quality.
My choices:
Sony Fontopia: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2388&highlight=fontopia ($40 earbud style)

Or Radio Shack: Pro Tatanium headset ($20)
In car: iRock FM transmitter.

[ringofett]

:?:

Hi,

I've been looking at getting an Ipaq 3955 along with a Toshiba 5 gig pc card drive to use as a replacement MP3 player.

I was wondering if anyone already has this set up and how well it works?

I'm switching from Palm to Pocket PC, so this is a new thing for me. I wanted the Ipaq over any of the other models specifically for the pc card drive. I have a Rio Volt 250, and it works ok, but now I have the bulk of the Rio Volt, my Palm , and a CD case (to carry around all the MP3 cds) to haul around.

It'd be nice to get all of that down to one item. I know that 5 gig doesn't measure up to some of the 20 gig mp3 players, but I'm guessing I can get about 80 cd's on the 5 gig drive. That should be plenty for a decent selection of music. : )

Thanks!

[Paul]

http://headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=2&subTopicID=15

[roberto_torres]

I know this is a PPC site (heck I am a PPC user not Palm), but please be fair with the competing platform. There were advantages the Clie had over PPC mentioned in the article. And the article didn't included the new OS 5 Tungsten (TI omap ARM processor with DSP) and Clie (Xscale) wich have better multimedia.

bellow are the parts of the article not mentioned:
I quoted what was dealing with Pocket PCs, and how do you figure OS5 devices have better multimedia? At best, they have caught up to what Pocket PCs have had since the iPAQ launched in June 2000.

As for tungsten, try loading an MP3 on it and tell me how it sounds. (hint: first you have to find an MP3 player for it. :roll: )


I told you I am a PPC user, don't try to flame me. As of the multimedia features of OS 5 it is ovious (tungsten has built in DSP and higher resolution than PPC) The clie has much higher resolution than PPC and built in cammera able to take 640x480 video. Or read the reviews on brighthand.

Dont flame me I am on your side, it is just pointed out that you are not printing all the information please be fair.

[jgrnt1]

I travel a lot on business, mostly by car. I used to have a 1GB Microdrive with as much music as it would hold, but found it wasn't enough. The solution -- 20GB's of portable storage (see photos below). I can't take credit for the idea. TJ Otala (http://www.tjotala.com/hardware/storagebrick/default.htm) put one together with an Addonics enclosure and wrote the driver. He even tweaked it for me so it would work with the Archos drive. My setup is as follows: Toshiba Genio e550g, Archos MiniHD-20 with PC Card adapter (20GB portable HD), Semsons CF to PC Card adapter, cassette adapter, power cords for the PPC and HD, Arkon Universal PDA cup holder mount. I use withMP3 as my mp3 player.

http://www.geocities.com/jgrnt1/genio1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/jgrnt1/genio2.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/jgrnt1/memory.jpg

[Ed Hansberry]

Dont flame me I am on your side, it is just pointed out that you are not printing all the information please be fair.
I wasn't writing an impartial review. I was linking to the Pocket PC info in an article.

I get flamed if I link to palm stuff and get flamed if I don't. :roll:

[dma1965]

My iPaq plays WMA encoded files which are as rich as I could ever want and lets me do about a thousand other things when I am not playing music. I was given a standalone MP3 player and gave it away. I see no need whatsoever to use a standalone player, nor do I see any reason to play MP3's at double the size of a WMA. If I download MP3's I convert them to WMA just for the decreased size, and because Windows Media Player on the iPaq just plays them much more reliably. 8) :rock on dude!:

If you use MP3 Pro encosing then the files size is smaller than WMA encoded files. A 64kb encoded file with MP3 Pro sounds like a 128kb encoding - i.e. the same sound for half the size. MP3 Pro uses many of the same techniques used to create the WMA codec.

I am sure MP3pro is as good as you say it is, but why would I want to encode to standard that is not as widely accepted as WMA. I know standard MP3 encoding is, by far, the most widespread, but WMA encoding is built into Windows Media Player, and the player on the iPaq plays WMA perfectly. I heard, but have not personally experienced, that MP3pro does not play with the fidelity of either MP3 standard or WMA pocket Windows Media Player. I also do not know if there are any players optimized for MP3pro for the Pocket PC platform. In any event, I always prefer ROM based applications to do what I need to do on my Pocket PC, since I always try to conserve RAM where I can. Some of the built in applications cannot do what I want (such as the built in PIM applications, that is why I use Agenda Fusion), but most of them do what I need them to do, and playing music through Windows Media Player works nearly flawlessly as long as you encode to WMA. MP3 does work, but the player is very fussy about MP3's. So, until something better comes along, I will carry my music in WMA format. :rock on dude!:

[Jason Dunn]

If you use MP3 Pro encosing then the files size is smaller than WMA encoded files. A 64kb encoded file with MP3 Pro sounds like a 128kb encoding - i.e. the same sound for half the size. MP3 Pro uses many of the same techniques used to create the WMA codec.

Problem is, you need a special player for MP3Pro files to decode the audio properly. I'm not aware of any Pocket PC player on the market for mp3Pro, nor am I aware of any tool to create anything higher than 128 Kbps.

Last time I checked (three months ago or so) it was a completely dead-end format, because no one wants to pay the royalty fees associated with it.

Am I wrong here? :D

[ECOslin]

I spend a few weekends compiling a majority of my CDs and Tapes into MP3 format, you know, that vague idea of creating a component mp3 file server as part of the stereo stuff.

The next week or so, MP3pro was announced and I tried a cd or two with the demo file converter. And that was the end with that.

I've since changed some of the regular MP3s over to WMA format for the pda, to save CF card space. Except for one or two of the original cds, most gather dust. Every year I change two or three out of my truck's CD changer for long drives.

Try checking with Amazon.com of the value of your favorite CD, likely you'd be disappointed with it's resale value. Used popular cds have almost no value.

'Windows Media Encoder' 9 has a better compression algorythm, I've seen that playing with video files.

I am not an audiophile, I can't tell whether the sound was a cymbal or a dropped wrench. I like some songs for no good reason, and I don't like some songs for no reason. I don't have a favorite band and I couldn't win a contest as to which band member goes to which band.

I've been to clubs where the local band sounded great and I bought the cd later and where did the magic go. Notice that?

Edward

[Jonathon Watkins]

If you use MP3 Pro encosing then the files size is smaller than WMA encoded files. A 64kb encoded file with MP3 Pro sounds like a 128kb encoding - i.e. the same sound for half the size. MP3 Pro uses many of the same techniques used to create the WMA codec.

Problem is, you need a special player for MP3Pro files to decode the audio properly. I'm not aware of any Pocket PC player on the market for mp3Pro, nor am I aware of any tool to create anything higher than 128 Kbps.

Last time I checked (three months ago or so) it was a completely dead-end format, because no one wants to pay the royalty fees associated with it.

Am I wrong here? :D

On the PC the MP3 Pro files sound great - 96kb sounds as good - or perhaps better than 192kb Mp3 files - why would you want higher? (most of my MP3s are ripped at 164kb - my MP3 Pros I rip at 96kb).

On the PPC the players will come. You can currently play a 96kb MP3 Pro song on any MP3 player - when the MP3Pro players/plugins arrive - it will sound like 192Kb again. Have a look at: http://mp3prozone.com/basics.htm or http://www.mp3pro.ws/technology.htm

I listen to most of my music on my PC as oppesed to my PPC. I can wait for the optimised players to arrive. MP3 is more widespread than WMA - and it's not controlled by MS!