More info on the Canary

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/recensioni/hardware/htc_canary.asp">http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/recensioni/hardware/htc_canary.asp</a><br /><br />Pocket PC Italia has obtained some better images of the Canary Smartphone 2002 <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3815">shown here last week</a>.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021010-canary.jpg" /><br /><br />From what I can make out, here are the key specs. Any Italians correct me if I got it wrong or missed something critical:<br /><br />• 100hrs standby, 3hrs talk time<br />• 133MHz TI OMAP 720 processor (this is an ARM processor, the same that I think is in the HP Jornada 928)<br />• 16MB RAM, 24MB FlashROM<br />• 16bit color, 176X220 screen - the norm for Smartphone 2002 devices<br />• 4+1 function joypad<br />• Vibrate mode<br />• GSM/GPRS and Tri-band. This means it will work on the North American GSM networks. :) <br />• Uscita Stereofonica per Cuffie - I am guessing this means stereo output via headset?<br />• IR port<br /><br />Source: Enrico Pappolla of Pocket PC Italia.

[JMountford]

I think I am just ready to groan and get over the whole smart phone thing. I have posted many a rant on Smartphones and even Phone Edition PPC devices. My biggest complaint is that there is just so little support for CDMA devices. Maybe it is just because I am American, I am not sure but gash darnit I think OEMs should be making more CDMA devices. I know CDMA is only bigg here and in some Asian Countries but Dang. CDMA is HUGE in Amereica. And this is America!!!

Anyway, I do want to say that this Canaray phone is a very sharp looking device. I would buy one in a heartbeat if it would work with my carrier. But I am on Sprint PCS and even though my Contract is up in December it is just too much trouble to switch and I like my service, especially now that there is Vision.

I hope the Samsung I600 is out by the End of December otherwise I will just have to settle for some Vision enabled phone I do not really want, that will not sync with anything.

It just gets old for a while. ANd MS has been touting Smartphone for at least a year that I have been aware of it, some people even longer.

Smartphone, Dumb Consumers, (of which I am one) well no more. December is the last chance. Do you hear me Microsoft?

[Jason Lee]

L'assenza delle specifiche I/O nello slot SD è una evidente e non trascurabile carenza.
Per questo motivo non sarà possibile integrare funzioni Bluetooth o Wi-Fi ma soltanto utilizzare schede di memoria SD o MMC.


Well cool and bummer. It has s SD slot but it is not I/O...
Only good for SD or MMC memory.

[Kemas]

I recently had a meeting with Nokia, as part of my current day job, and was delighted to hear that Nokia was apparently try to patch up the diaster that is their relationship with Sprint PCS. As some of you may know, they had a huge falling out a few years ago when the 6000 series of phones for CDMA turned out to be a hunk of junk. Personally I hate Nokia phones, but they are big and where they go others follow. I go the impression they might eventually release the 9000 series as CDMA, but they didn't really make comment. They did agree that CDMA was coming and that they would have to deal with that technology eventually.

The whole key to CDMA is Europe. Every major carrier I know of has CDMA on their roadmap, including AT&T and Cingular. I don't know about Europe though. AT&T has it planned for 2005 or 2006 I believe. It is the only way they can reach the speeds they want to be at for the really juicy services.

For now though, GSM is king in the world and everyone but the Korean MFGs and Japanese MFGs are building GSM phones first adn then considering CDMA.

I just wish Korea would shoot their phones over here faster. They have had the new network now for nearly 2 years and are on I think the 3rd generation of new phones... Koreans replace their phones faster than we do in the states.

Anyway, I agree with the previous post... more phones in CDMA. However, Iit is also my understanding that Sprint PCS has for the time being decided to not use the SmartPhones., I don't know about Verizon They are going with Java phones. I think many of the carriers do not believe that the SmartPhones will not be popular and will be too expensive but not feature rich enough. So they are going with Pocket PC Phones and smaller Java phones. Several months ago I went to a conference and saw many of hte upcoming phones, some of which are out now and not one was a SmartPhone like Canary and when I asked they were very blunt and said they had no immediate plans to consider those phones.

I did see some pretty cool Samsung phones, one based on HandHeld PPC as I recall as well as some Java based phones.

I think we are going to see tiny and big phones for many moons to come. Too bad... I like the Canary but I think it is pretty dead on a 14.4 network.

[jpaq]

AT&T and Cingular have CDMA on their roadmap?

GEEZ! Their both TDMA (no data) now moving to GSM/GPRS (very slowly) and they have CDMA in their future? Why? And it there is a good reason to move to CDMA, why even bother with GSM?

Isn't GSM the defacto standard of the world?

Head hurts. Don't have the info. Need input. Want to understand...

:(

[kennyg]

I've had my Smartphone for a little over a week (dev edition) and I simply love it. It is simply the best phone/PDA I have ever used. I've always fallen into the 1 device camp, but I can see a lot of people moving over, especially if they can put out a small crack-berry style clip-on keyboard for notes and such (T9 just doesn't cut it for text entry).

[fgarcia10]

:?
I'm lost!

witch one is faster GSM/GPRS or CDMA? or better?

Please somebody with a clue tell me....

[jmulder]

AT&T and Cingular have CDMA on their roadmap?

GEEZ! Their both TDMA (no data) now moving to GSM/GPRS (very slowly)

I'm considering moving to AT&T's "next generation" network (GSM/GPRS), since my current carrier, T-Mobile, wanted to charge me full price for the T68 they offer to new customers for half price (despite my offering to sign an additional contract). The AT&T rep said that they plan to have mirrored their TDMA network with GSM by the end of Q1'03. The rep also admitted that he thought it would be more like end of Q2'03, which I took as end of Q3'03.

Considering the size of AT&T's TDMA network, even my estimate doesn't really fall into the 'very slowly' category.

-Jim

[don dre]

At current speeds, CDMA is marginally faster than GSM. I have ATT and have no plans to switch (though I am going to smash my 3360 as soon as I get the T68, terrible phone). I used the T68 and itwas as crisp and clear as Voicestream and once their gigantic network is up and running fully it will be tops next to Verizon. But I prefer ATT's plans. Also, for those not interestedin BT, Motorola's T720 is due out for ATT later this month per a rep. I think I'll stick with a ppc instead of a smartphone.

[davidbaldauff]

GSM _can_ certainly sound better than CDMA if you have a direct view to a tower. However, because of the limitations of the GSM technology the signal strength is 9 times out of ten lower than a CDMA-based connection. It is the nature of the GSM standard. It simply isn't very good. GSM is limited to communicating with one tower at a time. CDMA can combine up to three connections at once and therefore have much stronger connections in general.

Kenny, how did you get into the mobile phone early adopters program? Please have mercy on a poor soul and give me some pointers...

[GregWard]

My biggest complaint is that there is just so little support for CDMA devices. Maybe it is just because I am American, I am not sure but gash darnit I think OEMs should be making more CDMA devices. I know CDMA is only bigg here and in some Asian Countries but Dang. CDMA is HUGE in Amereica. And this is America!!!


It's a weird concept to get used to but I think the truth is the US market is just too small for most of the phone guys! Not only is GSM the standard across most of the world but the number of people using them is that much greater.

We used to have a situation in the UK where the two smaller networks (at least they WERE the smallest) operated on a different frequency (1800 instead of 900). As a result they only ever got the most popular phones re-released for their frequency - and then a very long time after the big two. The market was just too small so they ended up with an inferior package. Then dual band (900/1800) came along so any new phone would work on all four UK National Networks. Orange in particular then took off - they are now the biggest in the UK.

Even as GSM becomes more popular stateside it's still not THE GSM that most other countries have - as it's 1900 frequency. Most phones released in Europe are dual 900/1800 and not tri-band. So even with GSM the US market is severely restricted from a phone manufacturers point of view.

As I say - weird concept (for me at least!) - but it's a global market and America is just too small. 8O

I believe the intention is for greater compatibility with 3G. So - heh! only another couple of years to wait guys! :P

[Landis]

These Smartphones have the potential to be a lot more useful and fun than other alternatives curently available such as Sprint's Vision phones. I tried the Samsung A500 recently. That's the one that the guy in the trenchcoat uses to demonstrate Vision services like games. Trouble is, the two game demos I tried (a Space Invaders clone and a car racing game) only run at about THREE frames per second! Not my idea of fun.

Compare that to the Smartphone's 3D games that will run at 30 FPS. Many are direct ports of Pocket PC games. Add to that the ability to play music and videos from SD memory and easy sync with Outlook all for about the same price as the A500.

Someone mentioned this Canary doesn't have SD/IO. Both the Sendo and Samsung units support IO. I wouldn't think they'd leave that out on this one, but who knows.

As far as the whole CDMA vs GSM thing, i've heard people complain about the service of both in the US. Depends on where you are. Looks like Verizon will offer that CDMA Samsung Smartphone anyway.

Europe will soon have to deal with the whole CDMA vs GSM mess also. The only way Europe's telecoms can take advantage of those expensive frequency licenses is to switch to WCDMA. Those without licenses will try to compete using GSM EDGE wideband service. Competition is messy. Deal with it :)

[Janak Parekh]

Hang on guys, you're getting confused wrt TDMA, CDMA, and GSM.

GSM is a set of standards. Its current RF interface is TDMA, i.e., time-duplexed sharing of frequencies. They just deployed GPRS alongside the existing TDMA infrastructure to support packetized data, but this is temporary. GSM is moving to WCDMA, a specialized version of CDMA, as its air interface - only CDMA has the capacity to support 3G longterm. This is fact, but it's not going to happen for a while; WCDMA is having deployment issues.

Existing CDMA carriers in the US are moving to a competitive CDMA-based 3G standard called cdma2000. 1xRTT is the first release of this, supporting GPRS-like speeds (although it is slightly faster right now). I'm currently waiting for 1xEV-DO, which will come out in a few years, and will support 1-2Mbps!

In any case: FWIW, Samsung is coming out with a CDMA Smartphone. I do seriously envy the HTC GSM PPC Phone Edition, though. I think you'll start seeing more CDMA devices as the world moves towards CDMA-based standards, and perhaps even more quickly if the problems with WCDMA continue. You'll still have to wait some time, though :(

By the way, GSM sounds better than current CDMA deployments not because of the way it works with towers, but because it uses a more bandwidth-hungry codec (13Kbps I believe, while CDMA uses an 8Kbps one).

--bdj

[revolution.cx]

It's a weird concept to get used to but I think the truth is the US market is just too small for most of the phone guys! Not only is GSM the standard across most of the world but the number of people using them is that much greater.

Western Europe handset sales 2003: 120 million
North America handset sales 2003: 110 million (40 million of which will be CDMA, 55 million GSM)

These are new handset sales, not installed base. Increases from 2002 figures are incremental.

"CDMA's share of global handset volume will reach 25% by 2006 when 213 million devices will be sold. W-CDMA will lack significant market momentum prior to 2004 and by 2006 CDMA2000 will still account for 61% of 3G terminals sold and 64% of 3G terminals in use."

I'll take any of those markets!

Here's some more:

Total Global Mobile Users 869m
Total Analogue Users 71m
Total US Mobile users 145m
Total Global GSM users 680m
Total Global CDMA Users 127m
Total TDMA users 84m
Total European users 283m
Total African users 18.5m
Total 3G users 130m

[jweitzman]

According to their MMode website, AT&T's roadmap is GPRS now, then EDGE (which is enhanced GPRS sort of, I think), then WCDMA.

[Kemas]

As it was explained to me, EDGE is how AT&T and Cingular will compete with Verizon and Sprint in the area of speed until they can move to WCDMA. Both GSM and WCDMA will require replacing towers..... I really don't know how AT&T and Cingular are going to pay for it and not ream their customers.

My bad earlier, I said CDMA (AT&T and Cingular roadmap) and I should have written WCDMA.

By the way, I am not sure who said that AT&T's network for data is only a little slower than Sprints... but AT&T is at a huge 14.4k, bursts to 19.9 (neither are sustainable) and Sprint's is at an average of 65k to 70k, with bursts much higher. Admittedly both networks are designed on the concept of shared bandwidth so as more people use it the speeds will go down... but voice has priority so voice quality should never be affected. Right now though, anyone using the data network should be in 7th heaven as they probably have each connection all to themsevles.

EDGE will get AT&T closer, but for now Sprint has the fastest most reliable nationwide data network and the price is reasonable.... all things considered. Too rich for my blood, but broadband for homes was through the roof only a few years ago and is still not cheap and not widely available.. despite what the industry keeps telling everyone.

[Ed Hansberry]

As it was explained to me, EDGE is how AT&T and Cingular will compete with Verizon and Sprint in the area of speed until they can move to WCDMA. Both GSM and WCDMA will require replacing towers..... I really don't know how AT&T and Cingular are going to pay for it and not ream their customers.
But everything I've seen says AT&T and Cingular are going 100% GSM. Where are you getting the CMDA/WCMDA info?

[GregWard]

It's a weird concept to get used to but I think the truth is the US market is just too small for most of the phone guys! Not only is GSM the standard across most of the world but the number of people using them is that much greater.

Total Global Mobile Users 869m
Total Global GSM users 680m


I assume these are projections as they include 3G sales? I guess it makes the point - even projecting forward 78% of handsets are GSM! But the more important point is that there needs to be global standardisation. Otherwise any single country - even the US - that has it's own (different) standard is bound to see differences in terms of new kit being launched. Sometimes kit has come out in the US that never made it elsewhere (eg Palm VII) more often - AT THE MOMENT - it's the other way on (eg Nokia 7650).

Coming back to a previous point it does seem to be Nokia that are particularly poor here. But, what ever, it's the consumer that loses out.

[Kemas]

As it was explained to me, EDGE is how AT&T and Cingular will compete with Verizon and Sprint in the area of speed until they can move to WCDMA. Both GSM and WCDMA will require replacing towers..... I really don't know how AT&T and Cingular are going to pay for it and not ream their customers.
But everything I've seen says AT&T and Cingular are going 100% GSM. Where are you getting the CMDA/WCMDA info?

From my contacts at AT&T when they come out to visit and try and convince the company I work for to switch entirely to AT&T. WCDMA has been on their viewscreen for a while.... as I understand WCDMA won't be ready for deployment for another few years. It is also my understanding that moving from GSM to WCDMA is easier than going from TDMA. Also the biggest reason is that AT&T knows it can't keep customers on TDMA, the techology is dead and used only in the US now. By moving to GSM they get more now and can play the "we are hte world standard now" which is a lie becuase US GSM and European GSM are on different frequencies requring different chips and therefore different handsets... but it is easier for Nokia to make a GSM US phone than a TDMA phone.

Super high data speeds are only possible on CDMA or WCDMA so eventually they have to move and hence on the roadmap. I don't quite understand the huge expense of two moves... but then I am not a telecom company.

[Kemas]

AS a side note, I have read this in other places.... I jsut don't think AT&T is talking much about it. I don't know for certain about cingular, but I would assume at AT&T goes so will Cingular.

[Ed Hansberry]

AS a side note, I have read this in other places.... I jsut don't think AT&T is talking much about it. I don't know for certain about cingular, but I would assume at AT&T goes so will Cingular.
Thanks for the clarificaions. Seems the CDMA is a few years off. T-Mobile is really pitching their US operations to AT&T and Cingular. T-Mobile US doesn't want to stay independant and their massive GSM network would be a big cost savings to AT&T or Cingular in conversions - but the purchase price has to be right, and right now, it isn't.

[GregWard]

[quote="Kemas"which is a lie becuase US GSM and European GSM are on different frequencies requring different chips and therefore different handsets... [/quote]

I don't know enough about the technology to be sure but I have never understood why 1900 was that big a deal. To me there is some "cleverness" in making a dual band phone - at all. But surely if you can make a dual 900/1800 then a dual 900/1900 should be trivial?

For the last few years ALL European phones have been either dual band or tri. You have to assume, therefore, that any technical problems have been solved. I can only conclude that US 1900 GSM remains less supported for commercial reasons and not because it can't be done. :(

[scrinch]

For the last few years ALL European phones have been either dual band or tri. You have to assume, therefore, that any technical problems have been solved. I can only conclude that US 1900 GSM remains less supported for commercial reasons and not because it can't be done.

In fact, the Sendo Z100 specs that I have seen say that it is (okay...will be) a tri-band GSM Smartphone (900-1800-1900). So it should work on all GSM networks throughout the world..including the US.

[GregWard]

the Sendo Z100 specs that I have seen say that it is (okay...will be) a tri-band GSM Smartphone (900-1800-1900).

I believe that is the case. The other interesting thing, though, is that Sendo seem to be claiming (in a recent interview in a UK PC mag) that it's so late because they've had to add extra features - like a built-in camera. The features, presumably have been added to compete with the Nokia 7650!